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Post by p8nted on Oct 11, 2023 12:42:33 GMT -8
Not sure how you schedule when you can't tell OOC teams, which is almost the entire schedule, what you will pay them to visit and that there is NO tv coverage or contract? Games would almost have got be one and done deals as there is no guarantee how much schedule you need in a year or two? super complex and messy to schedule The general consensus is that there is already a tentative agreement with the MWC already in place to make this work if the reverse merger were to be the plan going forward. This is complex and messy to schedule for everyone but it is not rocket science. Oregon and UW declared they were joining the big 10 a matter of weeks ago and that schedule is already out. Not sure why everyone thinks this needs to be done a full year in advance. Yes. IF the merger goes forward it is less pressing but recruiting and other things are a problem. IF, as many on here want to happen, the P2 does not merge and tries to schedule a full schedule without the MWC deal then it is a real problem and that is what was being discussed |
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 11, 2023 12:43:22 GMT -8
LOL yes 100%. Because WSU and OSU did not choose to be put in this position and the intention would be to build back the conference. There's no way that he WOULDN'T torpedo dropping the Pac's P5 status, and he would FOREVER be crucified by WSU alum/fanbase for voluntarily relegating WSU to G5 status. You apparently didn’t understand what I intended in my next two sentences. There would be tremendous pressure on Schulz to play along of there were no others siding with him. Do you alienate the rest of of the board and insure the long term death of P5 status fro the PAC just to get 2 years? No, apparently I still don't understand what you intended because the answer is YES, abso-effing-lutely you alienate the rest of the board. What good is *not* alienating the rest of the board going to do? |
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 11, 2023 12:44:59 GMT -8
The general consensus is that there is already a tentative agreement with the MWC already in place to make this work if the reverse merger were to be the plan going forward. This is complex and messy to schedule for everyone but it is not rocket science. Oregon and UW declared they were joining the big 10 a matter of weeks ago and that schedule is already out. Not sure why everyone thinks this needs to be done a full year in advance. Yes. IF the merger goes forward it is less pressing but recruiting and other things are a problem. IF, as many on here want to happen, the P2 does not merge and tries to schedule a full schedule without the MWC deal then it is a real problem and that is what was being discussed How do you think recruiting is going to do if OSU drops from a P5 conference? There is no painless way out of this, there is only less pain and more pain. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 11, 2023 12:50:03 GMT -8
You apparently didn’t understand what I intended in my next two sentences. There would be tremendous pressure on Schulz to play along of there were no others siding with him. Do you alienate the rest of of the board and insure the long term death of P5 status fro the PAC just to get 2 years? No, apparently I still don't understand what you intended because the answer is YES, abso-effing-lutely you alienate the rest of the board. What good is *not* alienating the rest of the board going to do? As we’re finding out right now, bylaws can be challenged. We could be fighting on many fronts, and not just against the Pac 12 front office and the teams that are leaving. My hopes is that there’s a settlement prior to November 14th and this is all a moot argument. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 11, 2023 13:27:34 GMT -8
Not sure how you schedule when you can't tell OOC teams, which is almost the entire schedule, what you will pay them to visit and that there is NO tv coverage or contract? Games would almost have got be one and done deals as there is no guarantee how much schedule you need in a year or two? super complex and messy to schedule The general consensus is that there is already a tentative agreement with the MWC already in place to make this work if the reverse merger were to be the plan going forward. This is complex and messy to schedule for everyone but it is not rocket science. Oregon and UW declared they were joining the big 10 a matter of weeks ago and that schedule is already out. Not sure why everyone thinks this needs to be done a full year in advance. Exactly. The only potential issue is if OSU/WSU were to actually try and be independent fully in 2024, because there may not be an agreeable conference to rearrange schedules with. but even then I am not so sure... But given we know the MWC is all but ready to do anything and everything to achieve P5 status, I can assure you a schedule including OSU/WSU would be out before the ink dries on any reverse merger AND if OSU/WSU want to wait out a year to let media rights expire in the MWC, the MWC, as an act of good faith would also bend over backwards to rearrange their schedules to fit in OSU/WSU to fill out their schedules. The absolute LEAST of our concerns in any of this is a football schedule. OSU/WSU are never going to let mediation on the Pac-12 happen if it doesn't result in them A: owning the Pac-12 at the end, or B: they both get a P5 (4?) landing spot. There are only a couple real viable paths: 1. OSU/WSU make a few money concessions but retain the overall rights to the Pac-12 conference and assets (i.e, departing schools get some amount of future expected payments as it pertains to games all ready played, particularly basketball because I think that is the big one that is future payments on past appearances) I think this looks somewhat likely at this point, even though I know there is strong pressure to kill the Pac-12 off outright so the remaining 4 power conferences get more money. If this happens the reverse merger is on, the new Pac-12 is OSU/WSU+MWC. 2. OSU/WSU get that rumored Big-12 invite. this is mainly because of the desire to reduce overall payouts from CFB. CFB alone will be worth billions, especially when it goes to 12 teams. Way better the Big-12 needs to divide up a much larger payment with two other parties than lose out because the new Pac-12 with MWC teams is getting its cut. There could be other players in the game pushing for this, maybe even the networks would, like with Oregon and UW, pony up a little more to grease the skids here. Because bringing in two more is probably okay, but brining in 12 more with the MWC ascending to P5 status? well... that is exactly the opposite of what realignment is trying to do... If this happens OSU/WSU are in a power conference (likely at a reduced share, but still probably closest to what we are currently making) and MWC are the big losers in this. Their ticket to Power-5-dom is all but cancelled. and I have absolutely no doubt if this offer were to emerge, OSU/WSU would take it. OR... 3. OSU/WSU dig in and make is a major legal fight, where general consensus seems to favor their eventual, albeit lengthy and drawn out, victory. It may mean they hold on to several million more, but at what cost, and all to arrive at largely the same place #1 get them. That said, if the demands of the other schools are that unreasonable (i.e, you must agree to end the Pac-12) then it may be this no matter what. |
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 11, 2023 14:29:26 GMT -8
No, apparently I still don't understand what you intended because the answer is YES, abso-effing-lutely you alienate the rest of the board. What good is *not* alienating the rest of the board going to do? As we’re finding out right now, bylaws can be challenged. We could be fighting on many fronts, and not just against the Pac 12 front office and the teams that are leaving. My hopes is that there’s a settlement prior to November 14th and this is all a moot argument. I still don’t see the benefit to Schultz kneeling in favor of not alienating the board. The way I read your response is “well, they could make it ugly.” IT IS ALREADY AS UGLY AS IT CAN POSSIBLY BE, MAN. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 11, 2023 15:08:29 GMT -8
As we’re finding out right now, bylaws can be challenged. We could be fighting on many fronts, and not just against the Pac 12 front office and the teams that are leaving. My hopes is that there’s a settlement prior to November 14th and this is all a moot argument. I still don’t see the benefit to Schultz kneeling in favor of not alienating the board. The way I read your response is “well, they could make it ugly.” IT IS ALREADY AS UGLY AS IT CAN POSSIBLY BE, MAN. If there was ever a do or die moment as their can be in the white-collar world of chairperson and boards. this is it. There is no tomorrow if Schultz yields... there is absolutely and literally nothing for him to gain, nor for his university, and of course, us. It is the unquestionable, bright, flashing, burning, unmistakable line in the sand. The board is the Persian army, Shultz is the last standing of the mighty 300... THIS IS SPARTA! |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 11, 2023 15:16:50 GMT -8
As we’re finding out right now, bylaws can be challenged. We could be fighting on many fronts, and not just against the Pac 12 front office and the teams that are leaving. My hopes is that there’s a settlement prior to November 14th and this is all a moot argument. I still don’t see the benefit to Schultz kneeling in favor of not alienating the board. The way I read your response is “well, they could make it ugly.” IT IS ALREADY AS UGLY AS IT CAN POSSIBLY BE, MAN. Not really as ugly as it can possibly be, not yet anyways. Disbanding the Pac and going into next season without any conference at all or just joining the MWC under the MWC banner are the ugliest scenarios (outside of dropping sports altogether) I can think of. Going in as a Pac-2 without a definite future agreement probably next ugliest. Going in as a Pac-2 with a legit 1-2 year plan and future agreement to get to a full sized conference is still pretty ugly. Going in with a reverse merger with the MWC works. Going in with a reverse merger with a relegation program that keeps and expands both conferences with the Pac being made of the strongest teams is probably the best scenario, especially if the expansion teams currently are in the top 60/80 of the current Massey or Sagarin ratings (there are G5 Schools in those lists). I'm not sold on joining a conference that has said several times that they aren't interested, but it likely beats the worst 3 scenarios. |
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 11, 2023 18:53:43 GMT -8
I still don’t see the benefit to Schultz kneeling in favor of not alienating the board. The way I read your response is “well, they could make it ugly.” IT IS ALREADY AS UGLY AS IT CAN POSSIBLY BE, MAN. Not really as ugly as it can possibly be, not yet anyways. Disbanding the Pac and going into next season without any conference at all or just joining the MWC under the MWC banner are the ugliest scenarios (outside of dropping sports altogether) I can think of. Going in as a Pac-2 without a definite future agreement probably next ugliest. Going in as a Pac-2 with a legit 1-2 year plan and future agreement to get to a full sized conference is still pretty ugly. Going in with a reverse merger with the MWC works. Going in with a reverse merger with a relegation program that keeps and expands both conferences with the Pac being made of the strongest teams is probably the best scenario, especially if the expansion teams currently are in the top 60/80 of the current Massey or Sagarin ratings (there are G5 Schools in those lists). I'm not sold on joining a conference that has said several times that they aren't interested, but it likely beats the worst 3 scenarios. Dude, right now the other members of the conference are essentially trying to destroy Oregon State athletics as we know it. None of the other s%#t that you mentioned is as ugly as that is. |
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Post by p8nted on Oct 11, 2023 19:06:17 GMT -8
The general consensus is that there is already a tentative agreement with the MWC already in place to make this work if the reverse merger were to be the plan going forward. This is complex and messy to schedule for everyone but it is not rocket science. Oregon and UW declared they were joining the big 10 a matter of weeks ago and that schedule is already out. Not sure why everyone thinks this needs to be done a full year in advance. Exactly. The only potential issue is if OSU/WSU were to actually try and be independent fully in 2024, because there may not be an agreeable conference to rearrange schedules with. but even then I am not so sure... But given we know the MWC is all but ready to do anything and everything to achieve P5 status, I can assure you a schedule including OSU/WSU would be out before the ink dries on any reverse merger AND if OSU/WSU want to wait out a year to let media rights expire in the MWC, the MWC, as an act of good faith would also bend over backwards to rearrange their schedules to fit in OSU/WSU to fill out their schedules. The absolute LEAST of our concerns in any of this is a football schedule. OSU/WSU are never going to let mediation on the Pac-12 happen if it doesn't result in them A: owning the Pac-12 at the end, or B: they both get a P5 (4?) landing spot. There are only a couple real viable paths: 1. OSU/WSU make a few money concessions but retain the overall rights to the Pac-12 conference and assets (i.e, departing schools get some amount of future expected payments as it pertains to games all ready played, particularly basketball because I think that is the big one that is future payments on past appearances) I think this looks somewhat likely at this point, even though I know there is strong pressure to kill the Pac-12 off outright so the remaining 4 power conferences get more money. If this happens the reverse merger is on, the new Pac-12 is OSU/WSU+MWC. 2. OSU/WSU get that rumored Big-12 invite. this is mainly because of the desire to reduce overall payouts from CFB. CFB alone will be worth billions, especially when it goes to 12 teams. Way better the Big-12 needs to divide up a much larger payment with two other parties than lose out because the new Pac-12 with MWC teams is getting its cut. There could be other players in the game pushing for this, maybe even the networks would, like with Oregon and UW, pony up a little more to grease the skids here. Because bringing in two more is probably okay, but brining in 12 more with the MWC ascending to P5 status? well... that is exactly the opposite of what realignment is trying to do... If this happens OSU/WSU are in a power conference (likely at a reduced share, but still probably closest to what we are currently making) and MWC are the big losers in this. Their ticket to Power-5-dom is all but cancelled. and I have absolutely no doubt if this offer were to emerge, OSU/WSU would take it. OR... 3. OSU/WSU dig in and make is a major legal fight, where general consensus seems to favor their eventual, albeit lengthy and drawn out, victory. It may mean they hold on to several million more, but at what cost, and all to arrive at largely the same place #1 get them. That said, if the demands of the other schools are that unreasonable (i.e, you must agree to end the Pac-12) then it may be this no matter what. We agree the best scenario is a p4 invite. Second option is a reverse merger under the PAC brand and name. The MWC exit fees are not tied to the Media deal so not sure why we would wait out their TV deal unless it is just waiting for the legal crap to play out. The amount of MWC exit fee is tied to the conference payout to schools and that amount can go up and down, but they exist regardless of any media deal. Yes if OSU and WSU want a year as a PAC 2 the MWC will schedule but they will want an agreement in writing on what happens after one year. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 11, 2023 20:04:20 GMT -8
The exit fees are tied to the media deal. The media deal expires after the 2025-26 season, at which point there is no penalty for exiting. As long as the deal is in place, there are exit penalties.
The only advantage (as far as merging with the MWC) for the Pac-2 in waiting until 2026 is we don't have to take all of the MWC. We can pick and chose, because there is no penalty for withdrawl.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 11, 2023 21:22:36 GMT -8
The exit fees only exist IF the MWC chooses not to release teams from them. Take the whole MWC, no exit fees. Get the teams in the MWC to allow teams to leave without exit fees, no exit fees.
The exit fees go away if OSU/WSU win their legal decision and get an agreement with the MWC to dissolve their conference... OR... get the MWC to agree to split/expand (the expand part is critical to make it work) to the relegation scenario (which can also eliminatethe exit fees and happen right away).
In my thinking, the best scenario is to do the relegation scenario, the rebuilt Pac to remain in P5 status and the new MWC to have the ability to get its teams into the Pac over time.
That's a win for the Pac-2, and a win for the MWC. No exit fees. No having long distance travel for teams and their fans. OSU/WSU have a lot better shot at being the top dogs in a rebuilt Pac than the existing P4 teams.
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 12, 2023 7:20:29 GMT -8
The exit fees only exist IF the MWC chooses not to release teams from them. Take the whole MWC, no exit fees. Get the teams in the MWC to allow teams to leave without exit fees, no exit fees. The exit fees go away if OSU/WSU win their legal decision and get an agreement with the MWC to dissolve their conference... OR... get the MWC to agree to split/expand (the expand part is critical to make it work) to the relegation scenario (which can also eliminatethe exit fees and happen right away). In my thinking, the best scenario is to do the relegation scenario, the rebuilt Pac to remain in P5 status and the new MWC to have the ability to get its teams into the Pac over time. That's a win for the Pac-2, and a win for the MWC. No exit fees. No having long distance travel for teams and their fans. OSU/WSU have a lot better shot at being the top dogs in a rebuilt Pac than the existing P4 teams. The exit fees also go away if the Pac2 waits out the MWC's current media deal for 2 years and the invites are accepted following the conclusion of the deal. I agree that it's a win for the MWC and it does make an easier path to championships, but there will probably need to be a reorganization to make sure this new conference draws enough eyeballs and that probably means not taking the MWC whole. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 12, 2023 7:55:00 GMT -8
The exit fees only exist IF the MWC chooses not to release teams from them. Take the whole MWC, no exit fees. Get the teams in the MWC to allow teams to leave without exit fees, no exit fees. The exit fees go away if OSU/WSU win their legal decision and get an agreement with the MWC to dissolve their conference... OR... get the MWC to agree to split/expand (the expand part is critical to make it work) to the relegation scenario (which can also eliminatethe exit fees and happen right away). In my thinking, the best scenario is to do the relegation scenario, the rebuilt Pac to remain in P5 status and the new MWC to have the ability to get its teams into the Pac over time. That's a win for the Pac-2, and a win for the MWC. No exit fees. No having long distance travel for teams and their fans. OSU/WSU have a lot better shot at being the top dogs in a rebuilt Pac than the existing P4 teams. The exit fees also go away if the Pac2 waits out the MWC's current media deal for 2 years and the invites are accepted following the conclusion of the deal. I agree that it's a win for the MWC and it does make an easier path to championships, but there will probably need to be a reorganization to make sure this new conference draws enough eyeballs and that probably means not taking the MWC whole. Except the team you don't want (San Jose State) is in the biggest media market. Nobody watches them, but that doesn't seem to make a difference, as the ACC took SMU and the Big 12 took Cincinnati, Houston and UCF, neither of whom are the No. 1 team in their state/significantly move the TV needle in their markets. |
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Post by bennyskid on Oct 12, 2023 8:24:51 GMT -8
There is no way that the MWC is dropping anyone to join us, and that's awesome!
I'm happier joining a conference knowing that the schools aren't all run by douche-bags. If the way forward for OSU means screwing some other school, then we need to find another way forward.
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