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Post by believeinthebeavs on Oct 17, 2023 19:47:03 GMT -8
Just thinking out loud here and it will probably never happen because it makes too much sense, but wouldn't it behoove the big10 to ask their TV partners to add OSU and WSU and create a "western pod" thereby reducing travel distances for every school in the conference? THEY DON'T WANT US. But if people say it enough they can wish it to reality... The only conference that has shown any interest in OSU and WSU is the mwc. I have no idea where we will end up and I doubt anyone does, especially anyone on here. I hope we don't end up regularly playing games two and three time zones away. |
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Post by p8nted on Oct 17, 2023 19:49:14 GMT -8
Who's "eyes"?? What? The MWC will merge as a whole for now. Why would some teams vote to then not be included. All or nothing. And "nothing" screws OSU. MWC votes to dissolve takes a vote that will include not leaving out some teams. Why would OSU do to others what was done to it? Once a merged conference exists, and bylaws established, teams can then move forward and prep for the next media deals and realignment possibilities. BUT, it will be ALL the MWC for now. Plus, if you only take the best, you would have to pay the buyout fees which would eat up most of the existing Pac 12 assets. Given the debt at WSU, and the lower revenue coming in to OSU, there is no way you take any incoming/left over PAC 12 funds to do anything but cushion the blow you are going to take. Giving $$ to another school to join only to make things slightly better seems like a poor investment. Does it really improve the media deal that much and if so what are the numbers? I seriously doubt it is enough to justify paying multiple schools $34 - $17 million dollar each in buyouts |
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Post by korculabeav on Oct 17, 2023 19:53:14 GMT -8
The fact WSU/OSU have not come up with a solution or path forward by now means they are struggling to find some that meets their expectations. A “rescue” from a P4 conference is not coming. The Pac-12 “funds” are still unknown. The outcome of this looking more and more stark.
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Post by p8nted on Oct 17, 2023 19:55:19 GMT -8
The fact WSU/OSU have not come up with a solution or path forward by now means they are struggling to find some that meets their expectations. A “rescue” from a P4 conference is not coming. The Pac-12 “funds” are still unknown. The outcome of this looking more and more stark. There are still some lawsuits against the PAC in play as well that may claim some of the funds. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 17, 2023 20:04:52 GMT -8
The fact WSU/OSU have not come up with a solution or path forward by now means they are struggling to find some that meets their expectations. A “rescue” from a P4 conference is not coming. The Pac-12 “funds” are still unknown. The outcome of this looking more and more stark. Odds are they have a "path forward" planned, but can't do squat until they are legally guaranteed they can keep the PAC alive. |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837 
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Oct 17, 2023 23:05:56 GMT -8
My "other" fear not being discussed here much is the ticking clock. As in - what does our volleyball schedule look like in 10 months? Or other early Fall sports? How many schollies can we offer? In which sports? Can we afford to renew coaching contracts (I have not looked at whose terms might be coming to a close soon, mind you).
Even some of the brand-name, lots of eyeballs, large media market West coast schools were not unanimously welcomed into the conferences they are landing in come 2024 - meaning there might even be conference voting member friction to us joining or proposals moving fast. Carbon footprint or athlete impacts or current regional rivalries mean nothing to most of the decision makers in the conversation.
The TV networks seem to think they have little to gain from OSU/WSU (even though there might be ratings/attendance evidence to the contrary).
Other than the lawsuit that might give WSU/OSU access to funds to cushion the financial blow, media assets and control of the conference path forward, not sure a 'victory' in the lawsuit addresses the ticking clock either.
There are a lot of unsavory (from our perspective) actors [predatory conferences, greedy networks, schools with situational ethics] that can mostly "wait out the clock" and this all 'goes away'. Even uo prez/AD basically snubbed the Legislative session by making a cameo and walking off, knowing the ticking clock is their friend. Unlike some of our late game possessions this year where we insist on passing and eschew the run game and running down the clock, these bad actors will happily watch the days and months go by, knowing that the gnashing of teeth over two quality programs being left out in the cold, athlete impacts, travel, carbon footprints, ending regional rivalries or logical conference affiliations will all settle down once bowl season subsides in January. And then all but a few (us+WSU) will be on to discuss the upcoming seasons, the upcoming schedules, the home/away schedule advantages/disadvantages, recruiting ratings in the "new and improved" conferences........
Time is not on our side. I have faith that the OSU President and Scott Barnes are going to make lemonade out of these lemons, and likely that involves the MWC in some way, shape or form, but I'm still looking at the clock and bracing for some level of upheaval in this transition since in the Pac-12 game of musical chairs, the T10 are sitting down with smug looks on their faces, we can tell the music is winding down, and there don't seem to be any obvious chairs in view.......
Go Beavers!
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Post by hottubbeaver on Oct 18, 2023 12:31:32 GMT -8
The only way to avoid joining the MW is to not take all the teams into the New and Improved Pac. Accepting the entire conference may pull the wool over some people's eyes, but not most.I'm not so sure that there is Pac History to be salvaged at this point. It keeps the name alive, but what if people associate the Pac with MWC? Does that raise up the MWC or sully the Pac name? Like I said earlier, take only the best from the MW. See if we can poach a few others. And rebuild from there. Taking the whole conference would be foolish. You state the part in BOLD above like this situation and one possible solution to it, are all just a giant ploy to deceive you. Who is trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes here? Please tell. |
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Post by hottubbeaver on Oct 18, 2023 12:36:51 GMT -8
The fact WSU/OSU have not come up with a solution or path forward by now means they are struggling to find some that meets their expectations. A “rescue” from a P4 conference is not coming. The Pac-12 “funds” are still unknown. The outcome of this looking more and more stark. You have no idea what solutions/paths forward they've come up with are. Do you really think in the midst of mediation and a legal battle OSU/WSU are going to announce anything at all publicly? |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 18, 2023 13:15:45 GMT -8
Oregon State can neither lose full sports programs nor scholarships and maintain FBS status. Unless Oregon State can come up with money in other ways, I assume that Oregon State will look to eliminate the bloat somewhere other than cutting programs and scholarships. The rest of your post is pretty much spot on. I think we are at 17 right? that is what the athletic department reports. in theory we can cut 1. I think scholarships can still be cut. FBS minimum is 210 athletic scholarships combing to $6 million annual spent on scholarships and football must provide 90% of the maximum 85. (basically 77 scholarships).
OSU currently offers 370 full and partial scholarships costing $10.1MThe $10.1M is not real money, though. That is gobbledygook nonsense to balance the books. Athletic scholarships cost $0. The university may be losing money, but the athletic department is not. That is offset somewhere else in a non-athletic-related way. No one is cutting scholarships. That does not make sense, unless the University is close to cratering. But, from what I have heard, they are basically swimming in money in comparison to the athletic department. You cut bloat; you don't touch scholarships. And you don't touch programs either. Oregon State might wind up like the Indians in Major League, riding around on a bus or a train. That is how you save money. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 18, 2023 13:24:51 GMT -8
The fact WSU/OSU have not come up with a solution or path forward by now means they are struggling to find some that meets their expectations. A “rescue” from a P4 conference is not coming. The Pac-12 “funds” are still unknown. The outcome of this looking more and more stark. You have no idea what solutions/paths forward they've come up with are. Do you really think in the midst of mediation and a legal battle OSU/WSU are going to announce anything at all publicly? No sense shooting a gun until it's loaded. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 18, 2023 13:28:15 GMT -8
You have no idea what solutions/paths forward they've come up with are. Do you really think in the midst of mediation and a legal battle OSU/WSU are going to announce anything at all publicly? No sense shooting a gun until it's loaded. However, the key question... Is it really "shooting" if it's not loaded??🤔😉 |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 18, 2023 13:29:39 GMT -8
Plus, if you only take the best, you would have to pay the buyout fees which would eat up most of the existing Pac 12 assets. The 2 conference relegation idea was, I assume, an idea on how to get around the vote and buyouts, and help ensure the Pac remains a P5 school. Pac 2 get the top 6, MWC gets everyone else and adds 2 teams. That way both conferences get 8 teams and remain viable, while the MWC teams have a road to move up. It seems not to have gotten a lot of traction on the message board. Although not likely, I could see this happening, with room to add another 4 midwest or eastern teams (AAC?) to bolster the Pac's perception. We don't know if that idea is dead in the AD offices or not. The two conference relegation idea is a way to get around the vote and buyouts. But it also guarantees the combined MWC/Pac-12 two spots in the NCAA Basketball and Baseball Tournaments, for example. If you add the 10 good Mountain West teams and then maybe say Rice, Tulane, Tulsa (or Memphis or South Florida), and UTSA, promotion/relegation sounds fun. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 18, 2023 13:42:56 GMT -8
There's so much to respond to in this thread. Lots of words on recruiting. I believe the changes to that will be pretty small regardless what happens. Blackmail - I think the word you are looking for is bribery. At least that's how I see it. Using the earned but not allocated money from the P12 to entice an invite from a conference where the media payments will be north of $30M. The easy part is another conference. The hard part is convincing Fox or espn that OSU y WSU help them. Obviously winning helps. I have the greatest heartburn about budget and scholarships. This is what I think the "MWC is not that bad" is missing or avoiding. Feel free to correct my numbers. If our budget is $90M and it needs to go to $70M, how do you do that? If we currently offer 370 scholarships and need to go to 250, what sports become non-scholarship? Goodbye competitive soccer (both), track, and then maybe even baseball. Figure out the numbers and then reassure us that this won't be that painful. I used that term, because it is being discussed that we could get a Big 12 invite in lieu of discovery for the court case. I would call that blackmail. As in, "invite us, and we'll drop the suit" You say "blackmail," and I say creative and forceful negotiating. Argue that Fed. R. Evid. 408 applies or something. |
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Post by irimi on Oct 18, 2023 14:27:23 GMT -8
The only way to avoid joining the MW is to not take all the teams into the New and Improved Pac. Accepting the entire conference may pull the wool over some people's eyes, but not most.I'm not so sure that there is Pac History to be salvaged at this point. It keeps the name alive, but what if people associate the Pac with MWC? Does that raise up the MWC or sully the Pac name? Like I said earlier, take only the best from the MW. See if we can poach a few others. And rebuild from there. Taking the whole conference would be foolish. You state the part in BOLD above like this situation and one possible solution to it, are all just a giant ploy to deceive you. Who is trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes here? Please tell. No, that's not what I am saying. I contend that bringing the whole MWC into the Pac 2 is equivalent in many ways to the Pac 2 joining the MWC. And that calling it the Pac Whatever will deceive no one. They will all recognize that it really is the MWC + OSU & WSU.
I've been told that my thinking about this is wrong, but I haven't understood why anyone would think adding ALL of the MWC to the Pac 2 would create anything that resembles the Pac, except in name.
That is why I advocate to take only the best from the MWC. Sure it may cost more, but it might help keep the integrity of the conference.
If you can help me understand how people in New York and LA would not simply see it as a rebranded MWC, I am all ears.
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Post by irimi on Oct 18, 2023 14:36:27 GMT -8
OK. Silence it is. If you won't listen to reason or logic, bully them out. I get it. Nice look.
Where did he say in his post, "Shut up"? Nowhere did he say (or imply) that you shouldn't continue to post. He simply explained why he thinks that your ideas aren't popular.
No. You need to read it again.
He said that I shouldn't post my views on the MWC merger to avoid getting negative comments. This indeed implies that I either shut the hell up about the situation or continue to be harassed.
You're welcome to take my reading class. We just finished week four, though, so you'll have a bit of catch-up to do. Still, we haven't covered implied main ideas yet. Soon. Are you free on Mondays and Wednesdays?
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