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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 17, 2023 7:47:42 GMT -8
And yet somehow the Mountain West Conference has flourished this entire century. What will kill Beaver sports is if the P5 or nothing fans desert it after the Pac-12 as currently composed dissolves. If it comes to a reverse merger and the fans continue to support our programs, we will be fine. Flourished?
This week, they finally have a team in the Top 25--Air Force (6-0).
Doesn't that feel so damned familiar? That they have to overachieve to get the slightest nod. A 6-0 Air Force is still ranked behind 5-2 LSU.
And we should be content with being placed in that conference? After playing in a conference where half of the teams are ranked?
Again, if you don't like the MWC reverse merger, show me a viable alternative. Not some pie-in-the-sky dream the Big 12 will take us, when they have shown on numerous instances that they don't want us. The Pac-12 is going away. So it really doesn't matter how "content" were are playing in it. And yes, flourished. The MWC has consistently been the best of the non-power 5 conferences over the years. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 17, 2023 8:58:39 GMT -8
Flourished?
This week, they finally have a team in the Top 25--Air Force (6-0).
Doesn't that feel so damned familiar? That they have to overachieve to get the slightest nod. A 6-0 Air Force is still ranked behind 5-2 LSU.
And we should be content with being placed in that conference? After playing in a conference where half of the teams are ranked?
Again, if you don't like the MWC reverse merger, show me a viable alternative. Not some pie-in-the-sky dream the Big 12 will take us, when they have shown on numerous instances that they don't want us. The Pac-12 is going away. So it really doesn't matter how "content" were are playing in it. And yes, flourished. The MWC has consistently been the best of the non-power 5 conferences over the years. That's the thing that gets me, the MWC has consistently been the 6th or 7th strongest conference in football, while many considered the Pac to be the 5th, most of this century untilthe last 2 years or so. The MWC has consistently had at least a team or two, that were not only competitive with, but fairly often beat some of the upper Pac 12 teams in that time. Meanwhile, the Beavs had losses to a couple FCS schools in that time, and not that many years ago was basically dominated by the worst winless FCS school in the country and were lucky to escape with a win. We've come a long ways, and if the reverse merger occurs, we'll still be in at least the 5th strongest football conference in the NCAA. If we can improve (and we have) over a few years, some, maybe most, of these MWC teams can step it up as well, especially since they likely will be seeing significantly more money, and attention, than they ever have. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 17, 2023 9:06:28 GMT -8
Again, if you don't like the MWC reverse merger, show me a viable alternative. Not some pie-in-the-sky dream the Big 12 will take us, when they have shown on numerous instances that they don't want us. The Pac-12 is going away. So it really doesn't matter how "content" were are playing in it. And yes, flourished. The MWC has consistently been the best of the non-power 5 conferences over the years. That's the thing that gets me, the MWC has consistently been the 6th or 7th strongest conference in football, while many considered the Pac to be the 5th, most of this century untilthe last 2 years or so. The MWC has consistently had at least a team or two, that were not only competitive with, but fairly often beat some of the upper Pac 12 teams in that time. Meanwhile, the Beavs had losses to a couple FCS schools in that time, and not that many years ago was basically dominated by the worst winless FCS school in the country and were lucky to escape with a win. We've come a long ways, and if the reverse merger occurs, we'll still be in the 5th strongest football conference in the NCAA. If we can improve (and we have) over a few years, some, maybe most, of these MWC teams can step it up as well, especially since they likely will be seeing significantly more money, and attention, than they ever have. Funny thing... a few, or more, here proport to know EXACTLY what will happen with a reverse merger. Others simply point out the positives of the most likely realistic option. While also poo pooing the negative fantasy "realities" if it occurs. |
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Post by hottubbeaver on Oct 17, 2023 11:09:57 GMT -8
That's the thing that gets me, the MWC has consistently been the 6th or 7th strongest conference in football, while many considered the Pac to be the 5th, most of this century untilthe last 2 years or so. The MWC has consistently had at least a team or two, that were not only competitive with, but fairly often beat some of the upper Pac 12 teams in that time. Meanwhile, the Beavs had losses to a couple FCS schools in that time, and not that many years ago was basically dominated by the worst winless FCS school in the country and were lucky to escape with a win. We've come a long ways, and if the reverse merger occurs, we'll still be in the 5th strongest football conference in the NCAA. If we can improve (and we have) over a few years, some, maybe most, of these MWC teams can step it up as well, especially since they likely will be seeing significantly more money, and attention, than they ever have. Funny thing... a few, or more, here proport to know EXACTLY what will happen with a reverse merger. Others simply point out the positives of the most likely realistic option. While also poo pooing the negative fantasy "realities" if it occurs. A rod trip to watch the Beavers play in San Diego sounds alright to me. Boise State managed to attract and develop enough talent to beat the likes of Georgia in Atlanta, Oklahoma, Utah, UW, TCU, oregon x 2, BYU, ASU, and VT. Right now I'm enjoying every minute of this season and not wasting time predicting how many ways we could possibly be doomed in the future. Reminds me of Y2K and the folks who were running around frantically spreading their predictions of doom looking for other to agree to be miserable and in fear the final days of 1999. One guy I knew was convinced and worked himself into a stressed out ball of fear until one day I asked him, if you really think it will all be over at the stroke of midnight, do you want to spend every minute of your life between now and then worried about something you can't change, or would your rather live out these final minutes enjoying everything you love the most? Not sure which one he chose, but I still remember having a great time in 1999 and the 2000 (01) Fiesta Bowl was pretty good too. |
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Post by irimi on Oct 17, 2023 11:45:14 GMT -8
Flourished?
This week, they finally have a team in the Top 25--Air Force (6-0).
Doesn't that feel so damned familiar? That they have to overachieve to get the slightest nod. A 6-0 Air Force is still ranked behind 5-2 LSU.
And we should be content with being placed in that conference? After playing in a conference where half of the teams are ranked?
As far as “finally” goes, Fresno State has spent much of the season in the top 25. They got beat by Wyoming, who should be considered for the Top 25 , and dropped out. This is potentially the PAC’s strongest year ever, try comparing the MWC with the PAC of a few years back and there’s not as much difference between the two. I looked. 2022. (No reason, just easy to type in.) Week 6 (same as now). Pac 12: 4 teams ranked. Lowest is Utah at 16. Highest is Trojans at 6. MW: 0 2018 Pac 12: 4 MW: 0 I think I'm missing your point. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 17, 2023 11:52:30 GMT -8
Flourished?
This week, they finally have a team in the Top 25--Air Force (6-0).
Doesn't that feel so damned familiar? That they have to overachieve to get the slightest nod. A 6-0 Air Force is still ranked behind 5-2 LSU.
And we should be content with being placed in that conference? After playing in a conference where half of the teams are ranked?
Again, if you don't like the MWC reverse merger, show me a viable alternative. Not some pie-in-the-sky dream the Big 12 will take us, when they have shown on numerous instances that they don't want us. The Pac-12 is going away. So it really doesn't matter how "content" were are playing in it. And yes, flourished. The MWC has consistently been the best of the non-power 5 conferences over the years. You can not like the idea and still accept it is probably the most likely outcome. Make no mistake, being forced to merge with the MWC is a massive, MASSIVE kick in the dick. Period. There is no real silver lining to this. I accept it will probably happen. But I hate the idea of. It is such a tremendous slap in the face. And I don't mean that to disrespect the MWC, who has many great football teams in it. Fresno, Boise, Air Force, SDSU, Utah State have all show the ability to routinely field excellent, top-25 worthy teams. Doesn't change the fact they get no respect in the national media and they get s%#t for TV exposure, and they get basically zero dollars. These schools get paid by CBS less per year than we pay our football coaching staff. Let that sink in. They make less money than we pay one coaching staff on one sport. Oregon State has a $95 million athletic budget. Boise St. is the largest spender in the MWC and has a $50M budget. We are all living on a prayer that all these legal machinations can fill a massive, massive hole we are about to face. because joining the MWC even through a reverse merger has no path but to leave us with a $30-$40 million budget hole to fill. We are literally begging the legislature for money here, dude. We will lose full sports programs. we will lose scholarships. Tell me where the Flourishing is in that? we are about to have to lay off half our athletic department and slash our sports programs. And you want to pretend like we are going to flourish? Yes. in the MWC, OSU and WSU are probably going to routinely dominate. We are still advantaged, relatively speaking. but at what cost? The cost of half our Olympic sports, all our NIL money and and any hope of a facility improvement in the future. MWC maybe the reality. It is what is likely. We probably need to accept that. But lets not pretend this is good and the road ahead is easy. It is an ugly future. If there is even a 1% chance we can get a Big-12 invite we need to hope against hope we get that chance. |
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Post by irimi on Oct 17, 2023 11:55:38 GMT -8
Flourished?
This week, they finally have a team in the Top 25--Air Force (6-0).
Doesn't that feel so damned familiar? That they have to overachieve to get the slightest nod. A 6-0 Air Force is still ranked behind 5-2 LSU.
And we should be content with being placed in that conference? After playing in a conference where half of the teams are ranked?
Again, if you don't like the MWC reverse merger, show me a viable alternative. Not some pie-in-the-sky dream the Big 12 will take us, when they have shown on numerous instances that they don't want us. The Pac-12 is going away. So it really doesn't matter how "content" were are playing in it. And yes, flourished. The MWC has consistently been the best of the non-power 5 conferences over the years. Why do I need to provide a viable alternative? If you've already surrendered to playing in the MW, then that's your decision. My alternative is to fight on. My preferred alternative is to pillage other conferences and take only the best. Rebuild the Pac with fewer teams maybe, but certainly not let all the riff-raff in. Do unto others as they have done unto you. So let's say you're a young stud football player and your aim is to play pro ball. You work your ass off and you are good. Elite good. Where do you choose to play? Mountain West? You're right that the MWC has been the best of the other conferences outside of the Power 5, but not by much. The SEC had 367 players playing pro ball on opening day. Big Ten had 288. ACC 213 Big 12 207 Pac 12 178 MW comes next with 61. 6 times fewer than the SEC. So playing in the MW means that we are not playing at an elite level, which is the aim of Oregon State. Mediocre, OK, but not elite. We need a more creative solution than absorbing the entire MW conference and repackaging it. That's the easy solution. And if that's the best OSU can do, then we really do suck like everyone says. I simply refuse to believe that. |
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Oct 17, 2023 12:00:32 GMT -8
Just thinking out loud here and it will probably never happen because it makes too much sense, but wouldn't it behoove the big10 to ask their TV partners to add OSU and WSU and create a "western pod" thereby reducing travel distances for every school in the conference?
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Post by irimi on Oct 17, 2023 12:04:01 GMT -8
Again, if you don't like the MWC reverse merger, show me a viable alternative. Not some pie-in-the-sky dream the Big 12 will take us, when they have shown on numerous instances that they don't want us. The Pac-12 is going away. So it really doesn't matter how "content" were are playing in it. And yes, flourished. The MWC has consistently been the best of the non-power 5 conferences over the years. You can not like the idea and still accept it is probably the most likely outcome. Make no mistake, being forced to merge with the MWC is a massive, MASSIVE kick in the dick. Period. There is no real silver lining to this. I accept it will probably happen. But I hate the idea of. It is such a tremendous slap in the face. And I don't mean that to disrespect the MWC, who has many great football teams in it. Fresno, Boise, Air Force, SDSU, Utah State have all show the ability to routinely field excellent, top-25 worthy teams. Doesn't change the fact they get no respect in the national media and they get s%#t for TV exposure, and they get basically zero dollars. These schools get paid by CBS less per year than we pay our football coaching staff. Let that sink in. They make less money than we pay one coaching staff on one sport. Oregon State has a $95 million athletic budget. Boise St. is the largest spender in the MWC and has a $50M budget. We are all living on a prayer that all these legal machinations can fill a massive, massive hole we are about to face. because joining the MWC even through a reverse merger has no path but to leave us with a $30-$40 million budget hole to fill. We are literally begging the legislature for money here, dude. We will lose full sports programs. we will lose scholarships. Tell me where the Flourishing is in that? we are about to have to lay off half our athletic department and slash our sports programs. And you want to pretend like we are going to flourish? Yes. in the MWC, OSU and WSU are probably going to routinely dominate. We are still advantaged, relatively speaking. but at what cost? The cost of half our Olympic sports, all our NIL money and and any hope of a facility improvement in the future. MWC maybe the reality. It is what is likely. We probably need to accept that. But lets not pretend this is good and the road ahead is easy. It is an ugly future. If there is even a 1% chance we can get a Big-12 invite we need to hope against hope we get that chance. Nah. We don't have to accept it until the deed is done. We're all just a bunch of nervous hens scratching the dirt looking for something. Nothing will be forthcoming that would jeopardize the money still in the Pac 12. Until those cases are resolved, we're official members of the Pac 2. Long may she live! |
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Post by irimi on Oct 17, 2023 12:05:54 GMT -8
Just thinking out loud here and it will probably never happen because it makes too much sense, but wouldn't it behoove the big10 to ask their TV partners to add OSU and WSU and create a "western pod" thereby reducing travel distances for every school in the conference? I had this idea back when the Hucks and Duskies jumped ship. It would solve the environmental impact issue and make it more palatable to lawmakers in California. It would also make a helluva lot of sense, keeping rivalries (real ones, not fantasy ones) and traditions in tact. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Oct 17, 2023 12:16:04 GMT -8
Just thinking out loud here and it will probably never happen because it makes too much sense, but wouldn't it behoove the big10 to ask their TV partners to add OSU and WSU and create a "western pod" thereby reducing travel distances for every school in the conference? I had this idea back when the Hucks and Duskies jumped ship. It would solve the environmental impact issue and make it more palatable to lawmakers in California. It would also make a helluva lot of sense, keeping rivalries (real ones, not fantasy ones) and traditions in tact. Common sense went out the window when the pac12 said no to 30 million dollars and responded with 50 mil take it or leave it. By the Way why is Georgie still getting a paycheck? |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 17, 2023 12:34:01 GMT -8
As far as “finally” goes, Fresno State has spent much of the season in the top 25. They got beat by Wyoming, who should be considered for the Top 25 , and dropped out. This is potentially the PAC’s strongest year ever, try comparing the MWC with the PAC of a few years back and there’s not as much difference between the two. I looked. 2022. (No reason, just easy to type in.) Week 6 (same as now). Pac 12: 4 teams ranked. Lowest is Utah at 16. Highest is Trojans at 6. MW: 0 2018 Pac 12: 4 MW: 0 I think I'm missing your point. It's actually week 7. You said "finally" as though the MWC had no ranked team earlier this season. I was responding to your use of the word "finally" You skipped 2021 wich had only 1 ranked team from the Pac and 1 from the MWC in week 7, and 2019 and 2020 which had 2 Pac teams and a MWC team each year in week 7. The PAC is a stronger conference in general, but in a lot of years lately the pac hasn't been as loaded as the last 2. I consider having just one more ranked team at any given time to not be much of a difference... if you think it is, you would have to admit this season and the last the Pac was different than at least a few of its prior seasons. |
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Post by Mike84 on Oct 17, 2023 12:37:03 GMT -8
Again, if you don't like the MWC reverse merger, show me a viable alternative. Not some pie-in-the-sky dream the Big 12 will take us, when they have shown on numerous instances that they don't want us. The Pac-12 is going away. So it really doesn't matter how "content" were are playing in it. And yes, flourished. The MWC has consistently been the best of the non-power 5 conferences over the years. Why do I need to provide a viable alternative? If you've already surrendered to playing in the MW, then that's your decision. My alternative is to fight on. My preferred alternative is to pillage other conferences and take only the best. Rebuild the Pac with fewer teams maybe, but certainly not let all the riff-raff in. Do unto others as they have done unto you. So let's say you're a young stud football player and your aim is to play pro ball. You work your ass off and you are good. Elite good. Where do you choose to play? Mountain West? You're right that the MWC has been the best of the other conferences outside of the Power 5, but not by much. The SEC had 367 players playing pro ball on opening day. Big Ten had 288. ACC 213 Big 12 207 Pac 12 178 MW comes next with 61. 6 times fewer than the SEC. So playing in the MW means that we are not playing at an elite level, which is the aim of Oregon State. Mediocre, OK, but not elite. We need a more creative solution than absorbing the entire MW conference and repackaging it. That's the easy solution. And if that's the best OSU can do, then we really do suck like everyone says. I simply refuse to believe that. If it's OK to just be angry about the way things are headed and demand that OSU "do better", without the need for our desired alternative to be actually viable, then I think that OSU, being an engineering school, needs to quickly invent a time machine, go back to when the schools were looking at the ESPN offer, make the presidents change their minds, and keep the Pac-12 together. That, to me, solves all the problems. It solves the P5 problem, the money problem, the travel problem. It solves EVERYTHING. Anything less than that, IMO, is just settling instead of finding the best solution! </sarcasm> I think OSU IS still fighting. In fact, some would contend that that's ALL OSU and WSU have done. What are they fighting for? It seems to me that they are consistent in their message that they are fighting for "regional" "at the highest level". I honestly don't see how that's possible, but they're still fighting for it. Maybe that's the Pac-X, with the best of the MWC teams, in a relegation/promotion relationship with a second conference or maybe it's still an invite from the Big-12 with some fix to the non-football travel issues. I don't know what it is, but I know that OSU and WSU only have so much time to make something happen, may or may not have any Pac-12 money to make it happen, and are getting zero help from the networks and other conferences in making it happen. I also know that OSU and WSU are not just sitting on their hands and looking for a way to immediately take the "easy" way out. All I can do is what the fan above recommended and try to focus on the present instead of the cloudy, seemingly dark, seemingly depressing, seemingly unfair future. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 17, 2023 12:57:04 GMT -8
Why do I need to provide a viable alternative? If you've already surrendered to playing in the MW, then that's your decision. My alternative is to fight on. My preferred alternative is to pillage other conferences and take only the best. Rebuild the Pac with fewer teams maybe, but certainly not let all the riff-raff in. Do unto others as they have done unto you. So let's say you're a young stud football player and your aim is to play pro ball. You work your ass off and you are good. Elite good. Where do you choose to play? Mountain West? You're right that the MWC has been the best of the other conferences outside of the Power 5, but not by much. The SEC had 367 players playing pro ball on opening day. Big Ten had 288. ACC 213 Big 12 207 Pac 12 178 MW comes next with 61. 6 times fewer than the SEC. So playing in the MW means that we are not playing at an elite level, which is the aim of Oregon State. Mediocre, OK, but not elite. We need a more creative solution than absorbing the entire MW conference and repackaging it. That's the easy solution. And if that's the best OSU can do, then we really do suck like everyone says. I simply refuse to believe that. If it's OK to just be angry about the way things are headed and demand that OSU "do better", without the need for our desired alternative to be actually viable, then I think that OSU, being an engineering school, needs to quickly invent a time machine, go back to when the schools were looking at the ESPN offer, make the presidents change their minds, and keep the Pac-12 together. That, to me, solves all the problems. It solves the P5 problem, the money problem, the travel problem. It solves EVERYTHING. Anything less than that, IMO, is just settling instead of finding the best solution! </sarcasm> I think OSU IS still fighting. In fact, some would contend that that's ALL OSU and WSU have done. What are they fighting for? It seems to me that they are consistent in their message that they are fighting for "regional" "at the highest level". I honestly don't see how that's possible, but they're still fighting for it. Maybe that's the Pac-X, with the best of the MWC teams, in a relegation/promotion relationship with a second conference or maybe it's still an invite from the Big-12 with some fix to the non-football travel issues. I don't know what it is, but I know that OSU and WSU only have so much time to make something happen, may or may not have any Pac-12 money to make it happen, and are getting zero help from the networks and other conferences in making it happen. I also know that OSU and WSU are not just sitting on their hands and looking for a way to immediately take the "easy" way out. All I can do is what the fan above recommended and try to focus on the present instead of the cloudy, seemingly dark, seemingly depressing, seemingly unfair future. Yes. We are fans. we get to have unreasonable expectations and exist on hopes and dreams. AD Barnes and President Murthy are the ones that need to worry about it being viable and possible. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 17, 2023 12:57:28 GMT -8
You can not like the idea and still accept it is probably the most likely outcome. Make no mistake, being forced to merge with the MWC is a massive, MASSIVE kick in the dick. Period. There is no real silver lining to this. I accept it will probably happen. But I hate the idea of. It is such a tremendous slap in the face. And I don't mean that to disrespect the MWC, who has many great football teams in it. Fresno, Boise, Air Force, SDSU, Utah State have all show the ability to routinely field excellent, top-25 worthy teams. Doesn't change the fact they get no respect in the national media and they get s%#t for TV exposure, and they get basically zero dollars. These schools get paid by CBS less per year than we pay our football coaching staff. Let that sink in. They make less money than we pay one coaching staff on one sport. Oregon State has a $95 million athletic budget. Boise St. is the largest spender in the MWC and has a $50M budget. We are all living on a prayer that all these legal machinations can fill a massive, massive hole we are about to face. because joining the MWC even through a reverse merger has no path but to leave us with a $30-$40 million budget hole to fill. We are literally begging the legislature for money here, dude. We will lose full sports programs. we will lose scholarships. Tell me where the Flourishing is in that? we are about to have to lay off half our athletic department and slash our sports programs. And you want to pretend like we are going to flourish? Yes. in the MWC, OSU and WSU are probably going to routinely dominate. We are still advantaged, relatively speaking. but at what cost? The cost of half our Olympic sports, all our NIL money and and any hope of a facility improvement in the future. MWC maybe the reality. It is what is likely. We probably need to accept that. But lets not pretend this is good and the road ahead is easy. It is an ugly future. If there is even a 1% chance we can get a Big-12 invite we need to hope against hope we get that chance. Nah. We don't have to accept it until the deed is done. We're all just a bunch of nervous hens scratching the dirt looking for something. Nothing will be forthcoming that would jeopardize the money still in the Pac 12. Until those cases are resolved, we're official members of the Pac 2. Long may she live! Nor do we have to accept the doom and gloom BS that is purely made up and the continued fantasy the B12 is suddenly going to change their mind. The reverse merger , IF the Pac12 money is in OSU/WSU's control, allows full operation of all AD activities without making a panicked decision. It allows the merged conference to then make decisions about their future when media deals become near their renewal dates. The merged conference with the Pac12 revenue coming in allows for adequate scheduling and stable footing. It is a plan that is not only viable, but realistic and can be implemented without waiting for the complete unknown... that may never happen. Wait around for the fantasy B12 or B10 invite means no Pac12 money. Folks forget, much of the money is "future" revenue to a conference. If there is no conference there is no payout, or a (12) way split. The waiting game also puts OSU/WSU in jeopardy on missing a chance to merge and go on as the Pac2 which although possible will deplete any available funds far more rapidly. No one on this board has said a reverse merger is awesome and is a great deal compared to being in the Pac12 that no longer exists. What they've explained again... and AGAIN, ad nauseum... is the money trail and requirements to keep it, and the reality of one solution vs the fantasy on one that has been repeatedly shown to be nonexistent. As far as coaches leaving... BS! It happens at all levels ALL the time, and when it happens and a key coach states, "I left because OSU is in a weaker conference." It remains BS, but I'm sure there will someone here who'll gladly pat themselves on the back for being right on their doom and gloom prediction. Recruiting... funny it seems folks here think OSU recruits at some high level. In the last decade they are regularly at the bottom tier of the Pac12. It would not change and they would be the same in a 16 team B12... probably in the 10-13th range, OSU is not some elite program being relegated to some minor league. Nor will they become elite in the B12. It is so, weird... if the Pac12 remained, would OSU suddenly become a household name? But, in the B12 OSU would suddenly ascend in recruiting and stature?? Using just one site quickly: 2024... OSU would rank 12th in the new B12... 17th in the new B10 With lesser teams than 2024, and without the new teams: 2023... 9th in B12... 11th in B10 2022... 9th in B12... Last below #14 in B10 (OSU's best rank in Pac12/6th in some time!) 2021... Last, below #10 in B12... Last below #14 in B10 2020... 10th in B12... 12th in the B10 2019... 8th in B12... 13th in the B10 In terms of type of recruits, about 95%+ are 3* which is what the G5 pulls in. As far overall ranking points: 2019... #1 among G5 schools... just ahead of BSU 2020... #2 among G5 2021... #43 among G5 2022... #3 among G5 2023... #1 among G5 OSU's successes has and will be the development of 3* types with a quality coaching staff and the selective use of portal transfers of players that chose incorrectly during recruiting. OSU recruits and will continue to recruit in the bottom tier of P5 schools, and far more closely to highly successful G5 teams. It didn't chage as a member of the Pac12, it will not as a member of the B12. |
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