|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 29, 2023 9:49:29 GMT -8
I simply don't want to settle playing wyoming,san jose, newmexico, etc..If the pac/mwc option is so great why was Barnes and the president at the capitol the other day imploring the legislature for money? It's not a "great" option. It might be our only viable one. Unless you seriously think the Big Ten or Big 12 are going to extend us an invitation. Not seeing that scenario. He's asking for money from the state because the actions of one state entity (Oregon) will have a significant, negative impact on another state entity (us). Hence we are entitled to seek relief. Whether we will get it remains to be seen. Sad thing is, I think the most the legislators could ever do, if they had the ballz, is release a resolution that says something to the effect of "This really sucks, we feel bad for OSU". I don't think would ever do anything to punish uo, and I don't think they could ever do anything to move money to fund OSU in any way while not doing the same for the state's other major university. |
|
|
|
Post by spudbeaver on Sept 29, 2023 10:25:01 GMT -8
If you bring in all the MWC how do you remain a P5 Conference? Hence my question regarding cherry picking the best teams. What is the criteria? The Big 10, Big 12 and ACC all have “weak” teams in them. It would not be anything new. If you look at Dave86’s post above with rankings it be far and away the weakest. My main question is what is the criteria to be considered a P5 school. There has to be more to it than what’s been offered so far. |
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Sept 29, 2023 10:32:47 GMT -8
Math seems kind of easy. Big12 say 30 million a year for 10 years. $300. OR if pac route maybe $160 million. Plus maybe $10 million a year for 10 years. $260. If invited $300 is alot better than maybe $260. Plus under the pac option you still need to find teams in the nonrevenue sports. The 40 million difference is not a lot “better” if it truly costs several million more to ship your athletes back east several times a year as some have said. Add to that wear and tear on the student athletes, is it worth it? Assuming a Big 12 offer, we likely would primarily be in a "west coast" pod, with Utah, BYU, Colorado, and the AZ schools. that is 6 western schools we'd undoubtedly play every year and only need to get out further east and average of 2 to 3. and by "further east" we are really talking basically Texas or Kansas. Our travel burden would not be the same as the new Big-10 schools. |
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Sept 29, 2023 10:33:59 GMT -8
I simply don't want to settle playing wyoming,san jose, newmexico, etc..If the pac/mwc option is so great why was Barnes and the president at the capitol the other day imploring the legislature for money? It's not a "great" option. It might be our only viable one. Unless you seriously think the Big Ten or Big 12 are going to extend us an invitation. Not seeing that scenario. He's asking for money from the state because the actions of one state entity (Oregon) will have a significant, negative impact on another state entity (us). Hence we are entitled to seek relief. Whether we will get it remains to be seen. It is basically the ONLY option if the Big-12 doesn't take us. There really isn't another one. |
|
|
|
Post by hottubbeaver on Sept 29, 2023 10:35:26 GMT -8
Math seems kind of easy. Big12 say 30 million a year for 10 years. $300. OR if pac route maybe $160 million. Plus maybe $10 million a year for 10 years. $260. If invited $300 is alot better than maybe $260. Plus under the pac option you still need to find teams in the nonrevenue sports. Have to account for TVM. At 10% interest 160MM today with a 10MM annual addition equates to about 415MM. 10% is not a realistic return over that timespan if that was the full story. In our situation, there's existing debt to consider and I don't know what the terms of that debt are, but for arguments sake lets say it's 6% and with a 160MM cash up front we wipe that debt out completely. Now you're talking a whole new financial future full of possibilities. |
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Sept 29, 2023 13:26:02 GMT -8
Math seems kind of easy. Big12 say 30 million a year for 10 years. $300. OR if pac route maybe $160 million. Plus maybe $10 million a year for 10 years. $260. If invited $300 is alot better than maybe $260. Plus under the pac option you still need to find teams in the nonrevenue sports. The 40 million difference is not a lot “better” if it truly costs several million more to ship your athletes back east several times a year as some have said. Add to that wear and tear on the student athletes, is it worth it? The vast majority of the Big 12 is not "back east" unless you're splitting hairs and saying that it's all east of OSU and WSU. Arizona, ASU, Utah, BYU, Colorado aren't. As I've pointed out a few times in other threads, going to most of the Big 12 teams doesn't add more than about 2-3 hours each way sitting on planes and buses. Div. I college athletes are more than capable of doing that without skipping a beat. And, once again, long trips can be avoided for teams other than probably football. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 29, 2023 13:44:55 GMT -8
The number is $318.8 million for football. That is the Pac-12's remaining two-year payout under the four-team CFP, roughly $158.8 million, and the remaining two-year payout under the Rose Bowl contract, roughly $160 million. Please note that there should be around another $90 million March Madness payout over six years. Also, there should also be between $40-$50 million in currently un- or under-utilized capitalization left in the Pac-12. You mean CFP? No, no conference champion gets an automatic slot into the CFP after this season. The current rule is that the six highest-ranked Conference Champions gets an automatic slot into the CFP and the four highest-ranked Conference Champions get byes. It is expected that the six automatic bids into the CFP will get reduced down to five, but that has not happened yet. If Oregon State and Wazzu get invited to a Power Five conference, expect that to happen, though. The Power Five was created to allow those conferences to pay additional money to athletes to cover things other than money to attend school and to stay on campus (e.g., money for food, books, transportation, etc.). Prior to the creation of Power Five, paying for those things could result in sanctions. The NILs have basically wiped that out. The second thing that the Power Five was created for was to fill out the New Years Six Bowls. With the change to the 12-team playoff, that is wiped out, as well. Once the money dries up after the 2025-2026 season, the Power Five will basically be meaningless. I could see the Power Four keeping the Pac-12 around as the fifth Power Five conference to break ties moving forward. But a fifth Power Five conference would otherwise be unnecessary to keep around for football. You add all that up, Wilky, and it's somewhere around $600 million, give or take the occasional million. If I understand things correctly, after UCLA and USC split, there was still a $30 million per year per team media rights contract on the table, right? Simple arithmetic; divide $600 million by 10, and you get $60 million per school. most payable over the next 2 years. So the Asshole Eight walked away from $50 to $60 million a year over the next 2 years to take partial or zero shares over that time in conferences far, far away? And, had Stanford and Cal stayed, that $600 million would have been divided by 4. So they walked away from that to get zero to play somewhere over the rainbow? Makes zero sense. I only hope Wazzu and OSU fight to keep that money, and don't give an inch. UCLA and USC will earn more than every other former Pac-12 team, but the other 10 left for less money, because of the money that was left behind. It may be that they did not realize that they were leaving money behind. It may be that they thought that the Pac-12 would crater, and they would get their money anyway. I will say that very intelligent people, who are well-versed in some subjects become blathering morons, when money is involved. That may be what is truly at play here, because it does not make a ton of sense to me otherwise. |
|
ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by ftd on Sept 29, 2023 13:46:21 GMT -8
The 40 million difference is not a lot “better” if it truly costs several million more to ship your athletes back east several times a year as some have said. Add to that wear and tear on the student athletes, is it worth it? The vast majority of the Big 12 is not "back east" unless you're splitting hairs and saying that it's all east of OSU and WSU. Arizona, ASU, Utah, BYU, Colorado aren't. As I've pointed out a few times in other threads, going to most of the Big 12 teams doesn't add more than about 2-3 hours each way sitting on planes and buses. Div. I college athletes are more than capable of doing that without skipping a beat. And, once again, long trips can be avoided for teams other than probably football. Not sure I follow you on the long trips for teams other than football.. I would think FB is the least impacted by long travel due to small number of games played during the season, and half of those are at home Its the hoops, baseball/softball, etc that suffer as they play a lot more games during the season Anyways I think the B12 is our best move should it become available. Of course the money has to work as well, Having a B12 West puts us in position to re-establish a west coast based conference once the idocricay of re-aligment passes.. |
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Sept 29, 2023 13:47:12 GMT -8
Math seems kind of easy. Big12 say 30 million a year for 10 years. $300. OR if pac route maybe $160 million. Plus maybe $10 million a year for 10 years. $260. If invited $300 is alot better than maybe $260. Plus under the pac option you still need to find teams in the nonrevenue sports. Yeah, and you have to figure in whatever financial liabilities are involved with keeping the Pac alive. That's a potentially huge negative. Also, I'm kind of doubting that a media deal for OSU, WSU and the MWC version of the new Pac would reach $10 million a team. Someone involved (I think it was Schulz) made the comment to the effect that the media deal potential is at a 30-year low. So there's two potential roads that could open up: One is that if OSU and WSU are able to determine that they are not only to receive all these payouts but a potential $300 million on top of that through getting a team to the CFP as the Pac-2, then they could stay as the Pac-2 if they determine that outweighs any liabilities and possible lack of a media deal for that time period as the Pac-2. Another is that ESPN/Big 12 offer membership to avoid the addition of a new Pac and bigger CFP payouts, etc. IMO, that offer would most likely have to be closer to $40 million a year if OSU and WSU truly get that kind of leverage. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 29, 2023 13:47:43 GMT -8
It's not a "great" option. It might be our only viable one. Unless you seriously think the Big Ten or Big 12 are going to extend us an invitation. Not seeing that scenario. He's asking for money from the state because the actions of one state entity (Oregon) will have a significant, negative impact on another state entity (us). Hence we are entitled to seek relief. Whether we will get it remains to be seen. It is basically the ONLY option if the Big-12 doesn't take us. There really isn't another one. You could try and cobble together an 8+ team conference out of a mixture of AAC and Mountain West teams. That could work, as well. Otherwise, you are correct. If you cannot get the AAC teams on board, you probably need to partner with 10+ Mountain West teams and make that work. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 29, 2023 13:49:26 GMT -8
The vast majority of the Big 12 is not "back east" unless you're splitting hairs and saying that it's all east of OSU and WSU. Arizona, ASU, Utah, BYU, Colorado aren't. As I've pointed out a few times in other threads, going to most of the Big 12 teams doesn't add more than about 2-3 hours each way sitting on planes and buses. Div. I college athletes are more than capable of doing that without skipping a beat. And, once again, long trips can be avoided for teams other than probably football. Not sure I follow you on the long trips for teams other than football.. I would think FB is the least impacted by long travel due to small number of games played during the season, and half of those are at home Its the hoops, baseball/softball, etc that suffer as they play a lot more games during the season Anyways I think the B12 is our best move should it become available. Of course the money has to work as well, Having a B12 West puts us in position to re-establish a west coast based conference once the idocricay of re-aligment passes.. The Big 12 seems to be the best choice for football for sure. Hopefully, there would be a pod system or something along those lines to make sure that Oregon State's travel expenses are not insane. |
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Sept 29, 2023 13:51:57 GMT -8
The vast majority of the Big 12 is not "back east" unless you're splitting hairs and saying that it's all east of OSU and WSU. Arizona, ASU, Utah, BYU, Colorado aren't. As I've pointed out a few times in other threads, going to most of the Big 12 teams doesn't add more than about 2-3 hours each way sitting on planes and buses. Div. I college athletes are more than capable of doing that without skipping a beat. And, once again, long trips can be avoided for teams other than probably football. Not sure I follow you on the long trips for teams other than football.. I would think FB is the least impacted by long travel due to small number of games played during the season, and half of those are at home Its the hoops, baseball/softball, etc that suffer as they play a lot more games during the season Anyways I think the B12 is our best move should it become available. Of course the money has to work as well, Having a B12 West puts us in position to re-establish a west coast based conference once the idocricay of re-aligment passes.. IMO football would go ahead and make a trip or two to places like West Virginia or Central Florida. The other sports can be put into west-east divisions quite easily for scheduling purposes. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 29, 2023 22:00:47 GMT -8
Not sure I follow you on the long trips for teams other than football.. I would think FB is the least impacted by long travel due to small number of games played during the season, and half of those are at home Its the hoops, baseball/softball, etc that suffer as they play a lot more games during the season Anyways I think the B12 is our best move should it become available. Of course the money has to work as well, Having a B12 West puts us in position to re-establish a west coast based conference once the idocricay of re-aligment passes.. IMO football would go ahead and make a trip or two to places like West Virginia or Central Florida. The other sports can be put into west-east divisions quite easily for scheduling purposes. Yeah, that's real fair. Put our baseball team in a group with WSU, Arizona, ASU, TCU, Baylor and Texas Tech (for example) while the east half of the Big 12 is powerhouses Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, West Virginia and Central Florida. Real fair. |
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Sept 29, 2023 22:34:33 GMT -8
IMO football would go ahead and make a trip or two to places like West Virginia or Central Florida. The other sports can be put into west-east divisions quite easily for scheduling purposes. Yeah, that's real fair. Put our baseball team in a group with WSU, Arizona, ASU, TCU, Baylor and Texas Tech (for example) while the east half of the Big 12 is powerhouses Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, West Virginia and Central Florida. Real fair. OK, then play them all, I don't really care. Much better the baseball program plays in the Big 12 than the MWC. To act like getting Big 12 scheduling done is impossible is just nonsense. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 29, 2023 22:44:54 GMT -8
IMO football would go ahead and make a trip or two to places like West Virginia or Central Florida. The other sports can be put into west-east divisions quite easily for scheduling purposes. Yeah, that's real fair. Put our baseball team in a group with WSU, Arizona, ASU, TCU, Baylor and Texas Tech (for example) while the east half of the Big 12 is powerhouses Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, West Virginia and Central Florida. Real fair. Iowa State does not have a baseball team. Splitting Baylor, Houston, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and TCU will be tricky, if not impossible. I am thinking that each team is guaranteed only one series and then will just play 7-9 of the other teams basically at random. That may be how most of the sports are handled. |
|
