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Post by ostate on Sept 2, 2023 7:43:22 GMT -8
Us and wazzu will not be joining the MWC, here is what has been floating around regarding the MWC joining the P2 and the media situation; 1) any P12 media rights negotiations cannot start without knowing what schools are involved 2) MWC has discussed options of joining P12 (the MWC commish was with the P12 prior to her MWC gig) which may or may not include a complete dissolution of the MWC in order to get out of their current media deal and $0 exit fees (it will take 9 votes to dissolve the MWC) 3) a new P12 would take the top teams from the MWC and not invite the lower tier schools and/or schools that don't meet the ncaa football requirements (stadium size, athletic budgets, etc...); the ncaa min size is 8 total schools 4) a new media deal will most likely be unequal in school distribution with us and wazzu taking a high portion So they will pay $34 million to join and be happy with reduced media shares? All schools in the MWC meet all NCAA football requirements in terms of stadiums and budgets. If those still even exist or ever did. Naw, if the MWC votes to dissolve no exit fee and the current MWC media pays $4m a year per school (Boise gets $6m and HI gets more too for travel). A new P12 media deal would be more than that (from what I've seen, but who really knows right now)... Us and wazzu would take the $60m in ncaa payouts as a premium to cover any shortfalls until the next realignment chaos breakout... This is from what I've heard, take it with a grain of salt... Sorry, I was referring to game attendance in regards to ncaa requirements (not really stadium size i guess), I believe their are some minimums for that... |
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Post by p8nted on Sept 2, 2023 8:24:44 GMT -8
So they will pay $34 million to join and be happy with reduced media shares? All schools in the MWC meet all NCAA football requirements in terms of stadiums and budgets. If those still even exist or ever did. $0 conference buyout if 9 schools vote to dissolve. It largely hinges on that to do this fast I’d think. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’d be a media buyout of some type that would need to be accounted for, I’ve no clue on their obligations to CBS . As far as reduced media shares go, what happens if OSU and WSU get guaranteed 15-16 mil a year MINIMUM and they get guaranteed 8 million MINIMUM (twice of what they’re getting now), with subscription escalators in place and a plan to equalize distributions as subscription goals are met or after a specified timeframe. Could be a win win for everyone. So no fuduciary responsibility and collusion? man the lawsuits |
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Post by bennyskid on Sept 2, 2023 8:33:13 GMT -8
IIRC, the attendance minimums were scrapped about a decade back. It used to be that you needed to average something like 20k/game to be in Div 1A. (Or was it 15k?) But after the end of the WAC, when Idaho was bouncing around without a conference (landing briefly in the Sun Belt!) after the end of the WAC, it appeared that no one at the NCAA had the heart to put the Vandals out of their misery. (Idaho did finally drop to 1AA - I mean, FCS - eventually.) Although it probably wasn't out of any sense of charity. Several MAC schools weren't coming close to the minimum (and still aren't), and if they enforced the rule for Idaho they would have had to crush the MAC as well. So, no, there is no minimum anymore, and it wasn't enforced when it existed. Several MAC teams today average ~10k per game. San Jose State is the lowest in the MWC at ~$15k. Here's a good table showing 2022 and the five-year average for each school, sortable by conference. www.d1ticker.com/2022-fbs-attendance-trends/ |
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Post by Dave86 on Sept 2, 2023 8:55:00 GMT -8
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Post by RenoBeaver on Sept 2, 2023 8:56:40 GMT -8
Us and wazzu will not be joining the MWC, here is what has been floating around regarding the MWC joining the P2 and the media situation; 1) any P12 media rights negotiations cannot start without knowing what schools are involved 2) MWC has discussed options of joining P12 (the MWC commish was with the P12 prior to her MWC gig) which may or may not include a complete dissolution of the MWC in order to get out of their current media deal and $0 exit fees (it will take 9 votes to dissolve the MWC) 3) a new P12 would take the top teams from the MWC and not invite the lower tier schools and/or schools that don't meet the ncaa football requirements (stadium size, athletic budgets, etc...); the ncaa min size is 8 total schools 4) a new media deal will most likely be unequal in school distribution with us and wazzu taking a high portion Stating the obvious here, but no way you get 9 programs in the MWC voting to dissolve the conference so Pac 2 can absorb only the top 5 or 6 teams. |
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Post by ostate on Sept 2, 2023 9:04:24 GMT -8
$0 conference buyout if 9 schools vote to dissolve. It largely hinges on that to do this fast I’d think. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’d be a media buyout of some type that would need to be accounted for, I’ve no clue on their obligations to CBS . As far as reduced media shares go, what happens if OSU and WSU get guaranteed 15-16 mil a year MINIMUM and they get guaranteed 8 million MINIMUM (twice of what they’re getting now), with subscription escalators in place and a plan to equalize distributions as subscription goals are met or after a specified timeframe. Could be a win win for everyone. So no fuduciary responsibility and collusion? man the lawsuits No fiduciary/collusion - majority rules. The trick is the 9 votes to dissolve; 9 of the 11 schools (HI is an affiliate and doesn't have a vote) which in turn would lead me to believe that a new P12 would need to take at least 9 to appease those that vote for dissolution. This may lead to a full absorption of the MWC by a new P12 which could be problematic considering the lower tier football programs and overall conference strength perception... Who knows what will happen, it's all up in the air right now... |
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avidbeaver
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Post by avidbeaver on Sept 2, 2023 9:10:04 GMT -8
The Pac 2 would be stealing schools in expansion but the Big 10 and Big 12 was just adding. No respect at all. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Sept 2, 2023 9:11:04 GMT -8
You bring all mwc teams in with say a 2 year agreement. One of the new bylaws says simple majority that teams can be dropped. So in the 26-27 year some mwc teams are let go and you bring in a few from another league say the aac.
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Post by ostate on Sept 2, 2023 9:11:07 GMT -8
Us and wazzu will not be joining the MWC, here is what has been floating around regarding the MWC joining the P2 and the media situation; 1) any P12 media rights negotiations cannot start without knowing what schools are involved 2) MWC has discussed options of joining P12 (the MWC commish was with the P12 prior to her MWC gig) which may or may not include a complete dissolution of the MWC in order to get out of their current media deal and $0 exit fees (it will take 9 votes to dissolve the MWC) 3) a new P12 would take the top teams from the MWC and not invite the lower tier schools and/or schools that don't meet the ncaa football requirements (stadium size, athletic budgets, etc...); the ncaa min size is 8 total schools 4) a new media deal will most likely be unequal in school distribution with us and wazzu taking a high portion Stating the obvious here, but no way you get 9 programs in the MWC voting to dissolve the conference so Pac 2 can absorb only the top 5 or 6 teams. I agree, it would be a tough sell and a long shot plus the buyouts are huge - good for the MWC for making the buyouts so big... I can't imagine voting to dissolve your conference knowing that you may or may not be invited to join a new P12... But crazier things have happened. A new P12 would likely have to take 9/10 MWC schools to get the vote which is not ideal from a conference strength standpoint... |
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Post by ostate on Sept 2, 2023 9:15:26 GMT -8
You bring all mwc teams in with say a 2 year agreement. One of the new bylaws says simple majority that teams can be dropped. So in the 26-27 year some mwc teams are let go and you bring in a few from another league say the aac. This is a good idea; everything probably blows up again in 2-3 years anyway. I suspect all scenarios that can be imagined will be included in the new/revised P12 organization docs... They should have huge buy-ins for the schools that left the old P12 if/when they want to come back. Kidding, kinda... |
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Post by bvrbred on Sept 2, 2023 9:15:37 GMT -8
I thought the writer's point was they wouldn't want to spend 34 million to make it happen. The writer is obviously a MWC honk who is showing as much arrogance as he claims OSU/WSU are showing (even though the "steal" quote didn't come from anyone in either school's AD). A central problem, though, is identified. It would take 9 votes to dissolve the MWC and avoid exit penalties. Doubt OSU/WSU want 9 schools. Some of the MWC schools have stadiums that remind me of Parker pre Raising Reser. They won't show well on TV. If the idea is to build a solid conference of competitive teams that can offer a desirable TV market 6 is probably about right. |
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Post by ostate on Sept 2, 2023 9:17:49 GMT -8
Boise, Fresno and SDSU have already submitted paperwork for P12 membership, albeit before the all of the defections... |
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 2, 2023 9:34:24 GMT -8
Us and wazzu will not be joining the MWC, here is what has been floating around regarding the MWC joining the P2 and the media situation; 1) any P12 media rights negotiations cannot start without knowing what schools are involved 2) MWC has discussed options of joining P12 (the MWC commish was with the P12 prior to her MWC gig) which may or may not include a complete dissolution of the MWC in order to get out of their current media deal and $0 exit fees (it will take 9 votes to dissolve the MWC) 3) a new P12 would take the top teams from the MWC and not invite the lower tier schools and/or schools that don't meet the ncaa football requirements (stadium size, athletic budgets, etc...); the ncaa min size is 8 total schools 4) a new media deal will most likely be unequal in school distribution with us and wazzu taking a high portion Stating the obvious here, but no way you get 9 programs in the MWC voting to dissolve the conference so Pac 2 can absorb only the top 5 or 6 teams. Lol... but, that's what he's heard! I mean come on, I'm sure media/ conference insider tells him the scoop! |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Sept 2, 2023 9:35:00 GMT -8
Along with the schedule problem, I think it would be a huge issue for recruiting, and player retention. We need stability, and a vision for the future, otherwise our program will lose momentum.
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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 2, 2023 9:42:36 GMT -8
Biggest issue is we would need 9 games each year on short notice. Most decent teams are scheduled out with OOC games the next 2 years or longer. We would have to probably buy out a lot of contracts and figure out a way to get an actual 9 games during the weeks most teams are generally playing conference games. We'd literally have to find 9 teams willing to take their bye weeks in the first weeks of the season to play us later in the season. Not to mention we'd probably have to play a lot of away games. Most teams are home heavy on their OOC schedules and I doubt they'll want to give that up. I don't see it happening. Drunkandstoopidbeav - I've been snooping this board for some time and generally I agree with your posts. However, this one I don't agree with. I'm not ready to concede that we can't find football opponents for the 2024 & 2025 seasons until we actually try to do that and fail. Here's where I think we can find some games: * Work with the very Mountain West schools we plan to invite into the PAC-X to see if we can't get them to adjust their schedules to add us. Suppose Boise State drops North Texas (non-MWC) to play us, maybe we can play North Texas for Boise State, giving us 2 games (BSU & NT)? * Keep the Civil War game with the Ducks * Play more than one 1AA team at Reser (1AA = Portland State, UC Davis, Sac State, Eastern WA, etc.) per season. I know we can count only one 1 win over a 1AA school for bowl eligibility, but we're in a mess right now, so we'll play more than one 1AA team per season in 2024 & 2025 to get to a 12 game schedule. Let's get creative and try to find a way to get by for a couple of years. I really appreciate Oregon State's leadership for trying to somehow rebuild the PAC-12. I like the idea of delineating what monies/ assets the Pac2 has going forward from Aug 1st of 2024, and find a way to add teams from the MWC and beyond, but do it without paying large exit fees. Even if we have to be creative and operate as essentially independent schools next season ('24-'25), and maybe the season after ('25-'26) ,if that gives us the time to invite and add schools without penalty, and work on a better TV deal - then so be it. This assumes the other conferences have said, and continue to say, we don't want the Cougs or the Beavs, unless they pay us to join, and then they get table scraps as a payment for being in our conference.
I also like the idea of gauging interest, not just by WSU and OSU fan base/ alumni, of signing up for a streaming service with Apple, then calculate what the other teams joining would be willing to do, especially if you sell it as "us against them, we are the underdog, let's show them" type of attitude. Embrace the little guy, underdog mantra, and work it to our advantage. Hell, if it meant rebuilding and saving the PAC, and indirectly giving the middle finger to the arrogant ducks, east coast honks, linear TV executives, etc - I would sign up with a streaming service in a minute. Use all of the anger, disgust, angst to sell streaming subscriptions, kind of a version of "revenge membership", if you will  |
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