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Post by nuclearbeaver on Aug 8, 2023 8:47:26 GMT -8
Either possibility could happen. Personally, I would have a hard time getting excited to see Wyoming, San Jose State, Air Force and maybe Utah State (even though they kicked our ass in that recent bowl game). Somewhat the same thought on New Mexico but I keep thinking they should be better. IF it were to remain a power 5 conference, with a decent media payout, I’d expect over the course of time most of the MWC schools would see improved football programs due to money and improved recruiting status. Air Force might be kinda locked in to what it currently is to some extent, I think they’re required to go to active duty afterwards. The problem is scale. BIG10 and SEC are looking at 60-100 million a school. A good contract for us is going to be like 20 million. While that will be a big pick me up for anyone joining it's a massive issue |
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Post by korculabeav on Aug 8, 2023 9:16:19 GMT -8
IF it were to remain a power 5 conference, with a decent media payout, I’d expect over the course of time most of the MWC schools would see improved football programs due to money and improved recruiting status. Air Force might be kinda locked in to what it currently is to some extent, I think they’re required to go to active duty afterwards. The problem is scale. BIG10 and SEC are looking at 60-100 million a school. A good contract for us is going to be like 20 million. While that will be a big pick me up for anyone joining it's a massive issue As great a respect as I have for Air Force (and all the academies), they do not bring much to the table in viewership, TV market or marquee matchup (OOC or in conference). They won't detract it either. Neutral at best in a MWC / Pac 2 or 4 merge. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 8, 2023 9:22:07 GMT -8
The problem is scale. BIG10 and SEC are looking at 60-100 million a school. A good contract for us is going to be like 20 million. While that will be a big pick me up for anyone joining it's a massive issue As great a respect as I have for Air Force (and all the academies), they do not bring much to the table in viewership, TV market or marquee matchup (OOC or in conference). They won't detract it either. Neutral at best in a MWC / Pac 2 or 4 merge. Last season, Air Force had more average eyeballs a game than ASU, and while being in a less followed conference. I expect that grow if they were in a power 5 conference. There are worse teams as far as reach goes. medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2022-94eca4f6acbd |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 8, 2023 9:23:10 GMT -8
IF it were to remain a power 5 conference, with a decent media payout, I’d expect over the course of time most of the MWC schools would see improved football programs due to money and improved recruiting status. Air Force might be kinda locked in to what it currently is to some extent, I think they’re required to go to active duty afterwards. The problem is scale. BIG10 and SEC are looking at 60-100 million a school. A good contract for us is going to be like 20 million. While that will be a big pick me up for anyone joining it's a massive issue It really has zero to do with "scale". OSU is and never will be a SEC or B10 top tier team. That is not who OSU is or should aspire to be as a University. Let the SEC, B10, B12, ACC (to a much smaller degree as they'd be poached if not for a very long-term contract) become these so-called super conferences. OSU can thrive in it's own way and the current situation allows for that to happen. Clear minds, creative, well-thought out solutions are out there. OSU, WSU, CAL, and Stanford have options and are all better off as athletic programs not being a bottom feeder in a super conference. This is about more than a media deal in comparison to what other noncomparable teams receive. (I realize there are weak teams in each of the aforementioned conferences, but they are members and are not going to be jettisoned for a couple reasons). Folks are incorrectly assuming that with the extra $ being doled out in a super conference OSU would suddenly vault themselves into an elite position. The extra money may relieve some debt in the short term, but OSU would never be more than mid to bottom tier programs in most every sport. The extra revenue also brings extra expenses... increase travel costs, increased payouts, increases in coaching stipends to compete with conference foes, etc. But, overall OSU was never going to "compete" on an even footing by just being a member and receiving more $. IMHO this entire debacle was inevitable and could be a huge boon to OSU as a university. The "scale" that OSU needs to thrive is not going to come from being a bottom tier program in some elitist, fantasy college football league(s). PS- in my opinion, the NCAA could have taken control of this more than a decade ago. But, of course we all know the NCAA is nothing more than an acronym. But think of the $$$ and foresight if they would have proposed "football only conferences" and left the conferences stand as is for the other sports. They could have created regional divisions that included all the P5 and G5 schools that lead to a true playoff of division champs. The bowl games could have then been filled with remaining teams similar to how they currently work. And... voila, lots of dough, a true NCAA championship, all teams splitting revenue, bonus system as one moves through the playoff (just like hoops!), bowl bonuses, easy scheduling, and more reliability in overall rankings. But, alas they let the media giants invade and conquer. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 8, 2023 9:28:11 GMT -8
No way to Stanford and Cal join us and Wazzu in associating with the MWC. So that leaves two options. 1. We get 6-8 teams to leave the MWC and join us in a reconstituted Pac. We break up another conference, just as was done to us. 2. We do a full merge with the MWC, 13 teams, all in, fight against the man. I like # 2. Go with #2, but the Mountain West gets renamed the Pac-13. I like the PacMont, even though the MountPac sounds better. Tough to ask 11 schools to give up their conference ID completely. |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 8, 2023 9:28:46 GMT -8
The problem is scale. BIG10 and SEC are looking at 60-100 million a school. A good contract for us is going to be like 20 million. While that will be a big pick me up for anyone joining it's a massive issue As great a respect as I have for Air Force (and all the academies), they do not bring much to the table in viewership, TV market or marquee matchup (OOC or in conference). They won't detract it either. Neutral at best in a MWC / Pac 2 or 4 merge. LOL... I wonder what the AFA brings in viewership when compared like to like compared to the span of the Pac12 contract and OSU? All this comparison of academia, athletics, budgets, viewership is pretty funny. OSU ranks 10-11th in the Pac12 depending on which sites you look at in viewership, finances, etc. Yet OSU fan wants to look down on other potential members that would be "OSU" in a new conference. Sort of weird... even hypocritical, wouldn't we say? In a % it is probably pretty close. But, it really doesn't matter as EVERY conference will have upper and lower tiers in terms of finances, NIL, viewership, etc. Everyone is not created equal... and no conference will be built as complete equals. |
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Post by korculabeav on Aug 8, 2023 9:41:09 GMT -8
In the spirit of the OP's topic title, I am surprised there is very little chatter early this week on where OSU is trying to go. More chatter on 'Furd and Cal looking at the ACC. With the urgency the talking heads state OSU and WSU need to figure this out ('24 is around the corner), would have expected more than silence.
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 8, 2023 9:41:17 GMT -8
Go with #2, but the Mountain West gets renamed the Pac-13. I like the PacMont, even though the MountPac sounds better. Tough to ask 11 schools to give up their conference ID completely. I might go "PacWest16"... include everyone at first. Maybe get the Zags who flirted with the MWC in 2018, to get hoops to 16 teams also. Cal and Stanford are welcome, but if they think they are too good for this, so be it. They can go find their own solution and resign their PacWest16 membership. I'm not sure of the voting to make a merger happen. But, I'd assume the MWC components would approve. If Cal and Stanford don't?? But, compromise could be made... allow them to pass the merger as nonmembers but, receive their shares of future Pac12 revenue? Allow them (or one) to compete as independents in football, members in hoops and other sports?? Lots of moving parts, but at this point something like this benefits all involved. And, to me it would be a fun conference... new faces, fun new roadies, and selfishly a huge opportunity for OSU programs to be highly competitive year in, year out. Of course, assuming Apple steps up and wants to still be part of the college football landscape?! |
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Post by korculabeav on Aug 8, 2023 9:48:38 GMT -8
As great a respect as I have for Air Force (and all the academies), they do not bring much to the table in viewership, TV market or marquee matchup (OOC or in conference). They won't detract it either. Neutral at best in a MWC / Pac 2 or 4 merge. LOL... I wonder what the AFA brings in viewership when compared like to like compared to the span of the Pac12 contract and OSU? All this comparison of academia, athletics, budgets, viewership is pretty funny. OSU ranks 10-11th in the Pac12 depending on which sites you look at in viewership, finances, etc. Yet OSU fan wants to look down on other potential members that would be "OSU" in a new conference. Sort of weird... even hypocritical, wouldn't we say? In a % it is probably pretty close. But, it really doesn't matter as EVERY conference will have upper and lower tiers in terms of finances, NIL, viewership, etc. Everyone is not created equal... and no conference will be built as complete equal
**Not lookinf down on AFA. Discussing viewership and TV market potential. That is something that varies school to school. Discussing those variances is not a knock but a fact or reality. |
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Post by hottubbeaver on Aug 8, 2023 9:57:06 GMT -8
In the spirit of the OP's topic title, I am surprised there is very little chatter early this week on where OSU is trying to go. More chatter on 'Furd and Cal looking at the ACC. With the urgency the talking heads state OSU and WSU need to figure this out ('24 is around the corner), would have expected more than silence. Have you every tried "chatting" with two knives stuck in your back? |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 8, 2023 10:00:22 GMT -8
In the spirit of the OP's topic title, I am surprised there is very little chatter early this week on where OSU is trying to go. More chatter on 'Furd and Cal looking at the ACC. With the urgency the talking heads state OSU and WSU need to figure this out ('24 is around the corner), would have expected more than silence. Have you every tried "chatting" with two knives stuck in your back? Or, "silence is golden" when you have nothing definitive to add/say about a situation. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 8, 2023 10:06:00 GMT -8
If it were a merger under the PacWest or Pac Whatever banner it's likely the 4 remaining teams would be able to keep the bulk of the coming post season royalties.
I'd think OSU would have a much much much better shot at being at or near the top of the conference year in and year out than in one of the Eastern conferences, plus less travel and having a good variety of regional teams for fans to visit on road games.
I think I read somewhere that the MWC can dissolve with a 70 percent vote. If Apple is still willing to play, I say go for it. The MWC could dissolve and teams would have no buyout, then they'd have to forfeit the remaining 1 year of their media deal and probably pay the media a year instead.
It could be fairly painless for everyone.
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 8, 2023 10:16:04 GMT -8
If it were a merger under the PacWest or Pac Whatever banner it's likely the 4 remaining teams would be able to keep the bulk of the coming post season royalties. I'd think OSU would have a much much much better shot at being at or near the top of the conference year in and year out than in one of the Eastern conferences, plus less travel and having a good variety of regional teams for fans to visit on road games. I think I read somewhere that the MWC can dissolve with a 70 percent vote. If Apple is still willing to play, I say go for it. The MWC could dissolve and teams would have no buyout, then they'd have to forfeit the remaining 1 year of their media deal and probably pay the media a year instead. It could be fairly painless for everyone. I believe if you could merge "correctly", the current MWC media deal could stay in tact and tack on the Apple deal with extra games shown, plus the Pac4 teams in year 1. Then it would alter after the MWC deal expires. Heck, maybe CBS and Fox jump in with Apple to extend a better combo deal?? But, unless we're in the "room" and know the intricacies who knows what is possible. |
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Post by jrbeavo on Aug 8, 2023 10:18:21 GMT -8
The problem is scale. BIG10 and SEC are looking at 60-100 million a school. A good contract for us is going to be like 20 million. While that will be a big pick me up for anyone joining it's a massive issue It really has zero to do with "scale". OSU is and never will be a SEC or B10 top tier team. That is not who OSU is or should aspire to be as a University. Let the SEC, B10, B12, ACC (to a much smaller degree as they'd be poached if not for a very long-term contract) become these so-called super conferences. OSU can thrive in it's own way and the current situation allows for that to happen. Clear minds, creative, well-thought out solutions are out there. OSU, WSU, CAL, and Stanford have options and are all better off as athletic programs not being a bottom feeder in a super conference. This is about more than a media deal in comparison to what other noncomparable teams receive. (I realize there are weak teams in each of the aforementioned conferences, but they are members and are not going to be jettisoned for a couple reasons). Folks are incorrectly assuming that with the extra $ being doled out in a super conference OSU would suddenly vault themselves into an elite position. The extra money may relieve some debt in the short term, but OSU would never be more than mid to bottom tier programs in most every sport. The extra revenue also brings extra expenses... increase travel costs, increased payouts, increases in coaching stipends to compete with conference foes, etc. But, overall OSU was never going to "compete" on an even footing by just being a member and receiving more $. IMHO this entire debacle was inevitable and could be a huge boon to OSU as a university. The "scale" that OSU needs to thrive is not going to come from being a bottom tier program in some elitist, fantasy college football league(s). PS- in my opinion, the NCAA could have taken control of this more than a decade ago. But, of course we all know the NCAA is nothing more than an acronym. But think of the $$$ and foresight if they would have proposed "football only conferences" and left the conferences stand as is for the other sports. They could have created regional divisions that included all the P5 and G5 schools that lead to a true playoff of division champs. The bowl games could have then been filled with remaining teams similar to how they currently work. And... voila, lots of dough, a true NCAA championship, all teams splitting revenue, bonus system as one moves through the playoff (just like hoops!), bowl bonuses, easy scheduling, and more reliability in overall rankings. But, alas they let the media giants invade and conquer. Being a bottom tier team allowed us to win 10 games and thrash (an admittedly depleted) Florida last year
Being a bottom tier team allowed us to gash oregon to death last year
Being a bottom tier team allows us to have a legitimate shot at a conference title this year...then we can dare to dream
Being a bottom tier team allowed us to get DJ in the portal
Being a bottom tier team got us to the Elite 8 a few years back and to 6 CWS with three titles.
Our association w the Pac was NECESSARY in allowing those things to happen. We lose affiliation w a nominal "Power 5" the results will be quick and severe.
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 8, 2023 10:31:33 GMT -8
It really has zero to do with "scale". OSU is and never will be a SEC or B10 top tier team. That is not who OSU is or should aspire to be as a University. Let the SEC, B10, B12, ACC (to a much smaller degree as they'd be poached if not for a very long-term contract) become these so-called super conferences. OSU can thrive in it's own way and the current situation allows for that to happen. Clear minds, creative, well-thought out solutions are out there. OSU, WSU, CAL, and Stanford have options and are all better off as athletic programs not being a bottom feeder in a super conference. This is about more than a media deal in comparison to what other noncomparable teams receive. (I realize there are weak teams in each of the aforementioned conferences, but they are members and are not going to be jettisoned for a couple reasons). Folks are incorrectly assuming that with the extra $ being doled out in a super conference OSU would suddenly vault themselves into an elite position. The extra money may relieve some debt in the short term, but OSU would never be more than mid to bottom tier programs in most every sport. The extra revenue also brings extra expenses... increase travel costs, increased payouts, increases in coaching stipends to compete with conference foes, etc. But, overall OSU was never going to "compete" on an even footing by just being a member and receiving more $. IMHO this entire debacle was inevitable and could be a huge boon to OSU as a university. The "scale" that OSU needs to thrive is not going to come from being a bottom tier program in some elitist, fantasy college football league(s). PS- in my opinion, the NCAA could have taken control of this more than a decade ago. But, of course we all know the NCAA is nothing more than an acronym. But think of the $$$ and foresight if they would have proposed "football only conferences" and left the conferences stand as is for the other sports. They could have created regional divisions that included all the P5 and G5 schools that lead to a true playoff of division champs. The bowl games could have then been filled with remaining teams similar to how they currently work. And... voila, lots of dough, a true NCAA championship, all teams splitting revenue, bonus system as one moves through the playoff (just like hoops!), bowl bonuses, easy scheduling, and more reliability in overall rankings. But, alas they let the media giants invade and conquer. Being a bottom tier team allowed us to win 10 games and thrash (an admittedly depleted) Florida last year
Being a bottom tier team allowed us to gash oregon to death last year
Being a bottom tier team allows us to have a legitimate shot at a conference title this year...then we can dare to dream
Being a bottom tier team allowed us to get DJ in the portal
Being a bottom tier team got us to the Elite 8 a few years back and to 6 CWS with three titles.
Our association w the Pac was NECESSARY in allowing those things to happen. We lose affiliation w a nominal "Power 5" the results will be quick and severe.
First... "bottom tier" has more to it than one year's results in one program, and one specific point in time. If that is your case then there are some G5 teams and the AAC which would be considered over OSU. It involves budgets, NIL $, and in this specific case the media market. OSU is bottom tier in the number of eyes watching... EVEN with the results you cite. Argue all you want... the reality is staring you directly in the face. OSU was not invited, and if a future invite is coming to a P5 conference it will be as a pity invite for a greatly reduce fee structure. Now... that would be embarrassing. Small, disrespected fish in a media created, elitist super conference is your choice? |
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