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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 7, 2023 13:30:03 GMT -8
Mountain West signed a deal 3 years ago that pays 4 million a year per school through '26 according to multiple sources I've seen. I'm not sure where people are getting higher numbers. www.sportspromedia.com/news/mountain-west-conference-tv-rights-cbs-fox-sports/It'd be a bad first year. I'm not sure if a renegotiated MWC contract would have as much upside as a rebuilt Pac 12 whatever contract would have. So how do we keep Smith? I don't see the numbers adding up |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 7, 2023 13:44:02 GMT -8
Only OSU and WSU are Land Grants. The Land Grant for California is UC Davis. Five of the current MWC schools are Land Grants: Wyoming, CSU, Nevada, USU, and affiliate Hawaii. I know you really don't want to hear it, but the MWC is a better fit than the PAC for OSU and WSU. Why not come to a conference that would actually be happy to have you? And, a conference that has "survived" quite nicely on far less money, one that fits the persona and profile of what OSU is all about before the battle of the wallets began. The Pac12 is gone and most every poster here biotched and complained about multiple issues and the administration. In a quick dive the MWC fans seem very happy with the overall administration of their conference and there has been no escalated "keep up with the Jones'" mentality. The only major issue that seems to permeate is the additional share of revenue BSU gets because of their football success and to keep them from bolting. Well, that'd be solved with a merger and let 'em bolt. There are now (2) super conferences. The ACC and B12 are far inferior to the B10 and SEC. They are/will be "super" in size only and will continue to be a minor player in the overall scheme of the CFP. Those two conferences will try to make it up with successes in hoops. But, look at the B12 minus Texas and Oklahoma... what perennial Top 12 teams do you see that OSU could not compete with by winning a merged Pac4/MWC auto berth. The B12 offers OSU nothing, especially with a reduced "pity" payout. OSU, Cal, Stanford, WSU can merge with all the MWC (for now), get a decent Apple deal at maybe $12-20 million per team on a sliding scale with Pac4 members getting a bigger slice initially on a 5 years deal with a opt-in escalation clause. The Pac4 has a nice bankroll coming over that same time span and can be "independent" of those media outlets who caused this entire debacle. Plus, when a conference member or two begins show they are indeed a consistent Top 12 team those media guys will come sniffing around to buy "games" and Apple can deal with them accordingly. The conference would have an auto berth in the CFP for their champion. If another team was top 12, they'd get another berth. And, most importantly they would have and "autonomy" label/status with the NCAA with two seasons to show what they can do before that next scheduled vote. Meaning the same CFP payout from the NCAA the others get... last I saw it was $66 million per conference two years ago. It also allows enough teams to creatively schedule and add quality NC opponents in every sport. And, again from very brief research, a merger could allow some collaboration and compromise where the MWC commissioner heads the new league while George takes a lesser role until his contract is up (unless the Pac4 can fire him with cause without any "golden parachute"). Speaking in terms of OSU only... the Beavers could enjoy tremendous successes (or should... if not they certainly would not do well in the B12!) and embolden a fan base with successes throughout multiple programs while retaining an identity that more reflects Oregonians/OSU fans as a whole. Being aligned with a tech giant is a good thing. Apple & Amazon are the entities that scare the sh&t out of media folks. If they chose either one can win ANY bidding war for any media property they want. Being on the ground floor would be a huge positive and give the OSU/conference a truly unique stance. My personal belief is an Apple deal without the (8) that left is ideal. And, that a merged conference is the best way to move forward, short and long term. Wow, well-said. I actually agree with you!  Nice to see you agree with my Mr. Potter analogy, of the B10 and B12 buying "distressed" properties (in 2023) at 40 cents on the dollar and making them think they got a good deal. They did a textbook job of dividing and conquering. Stay west. No one outside the Pacific or Mountain time zones. Compress the footprint, build west versus west rivalries over time. MWC hoops tournaments are already in Las Vegas, move the baseball tournament there too, or to Reno's AAA ballpark. No law says the MountPac or PacMount Conference can't add an auxiliary streaming rights deal while keeping the MWC's tie-in with CBSSN (Comcast 725) for the old-fashioned cable broadcast. CBSSN has a nice morning leadin with service academy football, and what is really a pretty good pre-game show. I'd go a little further, and say this is the approach to take even if Stanford and Cal let their academic noses cut off their faces. Hey, if rgeorge and the Skrimmer can agree, how hard can it be for the Pac-4 and the MWC?  Well said, sir. No lol this time. |
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Post by orangeattack on Aug 7, 2023 13:49:15 GMT -8
Only OSU and WSU are Land Grants. The Land Grant for California is UC Davis. Five of the current MWC schools are Land Grants: Wyoming, CSU, Nevada, USU, and affiliate Hawaii. I know you really don't want to hear it, but the MWC is a better fit than the PAC for OSU and WSU. Why not come to a conference that would actually be happy to have you? And, a conference that has "survived" quite nicely on far less money, one that fits the persona and profile of what OSU is all about before the battle of the wallets began. The Pac12 is gone and most every poster here biotched and complained about multiple issues and the administration. In a quick dive the MWC fans seem very happy with the overall administration of their conference and there has been no escalated "keep up with the Jones'" mentality. The only major issue that seems to permeate is the additional share of revenue BSU gets because of their football success and to keep them from bolting. Well, that'd be solved with a merger and let 'em bolt. There are now (2) super conferences. The ACC and B12 are far inferior to the B10 and SEC. They are/will be "super" in size only and will continue to be a minor player in the overall scheme of the CFP. Those two conferences will try to make it up with successes in hoops. But, look at the B12 minus Texas and Oklahoma... what perennial Top 12 teams do you see that OSU could not compete with by winning a merged Pac4/MWC auto berth. The B12 offers OSU nothing, especially with a reduced "pity" payout. OSU, Cal, Stanford, WSU can merge with all the MWC (for now), get a decent Apple deal at maybe $12-20 million per team on a sliding scale with Pac4 members getting a bigger slice initially on a 5 years deal with a opt-in escalation clause. The Pac4 has a nice bankroll coming over that same time span and can be "independent" of those media outlets who caused this entire debacle. Plus, when a conference member or two begins show they are indeed a consistent Top 12 team those media guys will come sniffing around to buy "games" and Apple can deal with them accordingly. The conference would have an auto berth in the CFP for their champion. If another team was top 12, they'd get another berth. And, most importantly they would have and "autonomy" label/status with the NCAA with two seasons to show what they can do before that next scheduled vote. Meaning the same CFP payout from the NCAA the others get... last I saw it was $66 million per conference two years ago. It also allows enough teams to creatively schedule and add quality NC opponents in every sport. And, again from very brief research, a merger could allow some collaboration and compromise where the MWC commissioner heads the new league while George takes a lesser role until his contract is up (unless the Pac4 can fire him with cause without any "golden parachute"). Speaking in terms of OSU only... the Beavers could enjoy tremendous successes (or should... if not they certainly would not do well in the B12!) and embolden a fan base with successes throughout multiple programs while retaining an identity that more reflects Oregonians/OSU fans as a whole. Being aligned with a tech giant is a good thing. Apple & Amazon are the entities that scare the sh&t out of media folks. If they chose either one can win ANY bidding war for any media property they want. Being on the ground floor would be a huge positive and give the OSU/conference a truly unique stance. My personal belief is an Apple deal without the (8) that left is ideal. And, that a merged conference is the best way to move forward, short and long term.  |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 7, 2023 13:50:04 GMT -8
According to Pete Thamel of ESPN the ACC is going to Vet and have exploratory discussions about adding Cal and Stanford. All the more reason for us to stay under the Pac banner. Instead of splitting the $420 four ways, it's now a 2-way split. We just doubled our money! |
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Post by irimi on Aug 7, 2023 13:50:50 GMT -8
Mountain West signed a deal 3 years ago that pays 4 million a year per school through '26 according to multiple sources I've seen. I'm not sure where people are getting higher numbers. www.sportspromedia.com/news/mountain-west-conference-tv-rights-cbs-fox-sports/It'd be a bad first year. I'm not sure if a renegotiated MWC contract would have as much upside as a rebuilt Pac 12 whatever contract would have. So how do we keep Smith? I don't see the numbers adding up Take the money from the professors. They don't mind. They get paid a ton, right? |
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Post by Judge Smails on Aug 7, 2023 13:53:15 GMT -8
According to Pete Thamel of ESPN the ACC is going to Vet and have exploratory discussions about adding Cal and Stanford. All the more reason for us to stay under the Pac banner. Instead of splitting the $420 four ways, it's now a 2-way split. We just doubled our money! So, we would each get $210?.....wow, maybe JS can take his family out to dinner.  |
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Post by aggielarry on Aug 7, 2023 14:28:24 GMT -8
I guess Wikipedia could be wrong, but... "The University of California, Berkeley (UC Berkeley, Berkeley, Cal, or California) is a public land-grant research university in Berkeley, California. It was established in 1868 as the University of California and is the state's first land-grant university and the founding campus of the University of California system." I actually got my original info off the Land Grant University map. Didn't see any reason to doubt it either. I stand corrected. While UC Berkley traces its roots to the private College of California, it became a state school, and the parent Land Grant under the 1862 Morrill Act. Most of the Land Grant activities moved to Davis, which was originally the university farm, but eventually became a university in its own right. Davis more fully embraces the title of Land Grant. Davis's athletic teams are "Aggies", a reference to the agricultural roots, and previously a popular term for land grant schools before many of them became universities in the 1950s. Berkley does, in fact, have an ROTC program, one of the requirements of a Land Grant university. Technically, Berkley is still a Land Grant, but I'm guessing that if you asked any student or faculty member at UC Berkley if theirs was an ag school, they'd recoil in horror. We at USU are proud of, and embrace being an ag school. I'm sure the same is true at CSU. Wyoming, Nevada, and Hawaii may be a bit more ambivalent about being ag and engineering schools, since they are also state "flag ship" schools. Anyway, I think you'd find the MWC a much more welcoming home for the Beavers. By the way, did you know that USU is home to "Beaver Ecology & Relocation Center"? Perhaps they could give you a hand in relocating to our conference... |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 7, 2023 14:54:13 GMT -8
Berkeley. Three e's.
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Post by grayman on Aug 7, 2023 15:46:56 GMT -8
Assuming OSU and WSU would get that $420 million windfall as the Pac-2, is there a stipulation that allows for the teams to "merge" with either the Big 12 or MWC and retain that money?
I've read that the Beavers could possibly take a lesser deal from the Big 12 but mitigate it with the payouts.
Also, is it guaranteed that most or all of it would be invested in the athletic department? It's not going to help at all if OSU decides to use 190 million of its share on academic facilities or whatever.
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Post by bvrbred on Aug 7, 2023 15:50:21 GMT -8
"Land grant" does not mean grant of land to farm. It means grant of federal income producing land to support the financial needs of the school. The goal was not farming, per se. Rather it was to develop an educational program to support the needs of a developing industrial economy. This was something the traditional liberal arts education did not directly do. And it was never supposed to be an alternative to liberal arts education. That belief has led to tons of infighting and acrimony.
Agriculture was the leading industry of the United States in the 1860s. That is why it was mentioned specifically among the three mandates. Martial arts was included because officers were needed for the Union army in the Civil War. Mechanic arts was necessary for understanding and developing needed for industry. It later evolved into engineering.
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Post by aggielarry on Aug 7, 2023 19:20:11 GMT -8
Again, my bad. This is a reflection of: A. My generally poor spelling. B. How often I give the flagship campus of the University of California any thought. Which is to say, never. |
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Post by aggielarry on Aug 7, 2023 19:28:24 GMT -8
"Land grant" does not mean grant of land to farm. It means grant of federal income producing land to support the financial needs of the school. The goal was not farming, per se. Rather it was to develop an educational program to support the needs of a developing industrial economy. This was something the traditional liberal arts education did not directly do. And it was never supposed to be an alternative to liberal arts education. That belief has led to tons of infighting and acrimony. Agriculture was the leading industry of the United States in the 1860s. That is why it was mentioned specifically among the three mandates. Martial arts was included because officers were needed for the Union army in the Civil War. Mechanic arts was necessary for understanding and developing needed for industry. It later evolved into engineering. Land Grant schools, under the 1862 statute, were required to have certain features, including academic departments of agriculture, engineering, and military science. Their libraries are official federal government document repositories. Because of the agriculture component, many Land Grants had/have university farms. BerkEley had one at the Davis location. Utah State had, and has one in Smithfield. The farms were/are laboratories for experimentation in agriculture. I’m not sure what your point was in bringing this up. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 7, 2023 22:56:33 GMT -8
"Land grant" does not mean grant of land to farm. It means grant of federal income producing land to support the financial needs of the school. The goal was not farming, per se. Rather it was to develop an educational program to support the needs of a developing industrial economy. This was something the traditional liberal arts education did not directly do. And it was never supposed to be an alternative to liberal arts education. That belief has led to tons of infighting and acrimony. Agriculture was the leading industry of the United States in the 1860s. That is why it was mentioned specifically among the three mandates. Martial arts was included because officers were needed for the Union army in the Civil War. Mechanic arts was necessary for understanding and developing needed for industry. It later evolved into engineering. Land Grant schools, under the 1862 statute, were required to have certain features, including academic departments of agriculture, engineering, and military science. Their libraries are official federal government document repositories. Because of the agriculture component, many Land Grants had/have university farms. BerkEley had one at the Davis location. Utah State had, and has one in Smithfield. The farms were/are laboratories for experimentation in agriculture. I’m not sure what your point was in bringing this up. Many Land Grant Universities have university farms. However, that only started in earnest after the Hatch Act of 1887. Of the 10 University of California universities, the five that are supposed to focus on agriculture are Berkeley, Davis, Merced, Riverside, and Santa Cruz. In real life, Davis is the primary agricultural school in California with Berkeley, Riverside, Merced, and Santa Cruz following about in that order. Davis is almost universally regarded as the #1 agricultural school west of Ithaca. Berkeley has focused more on the engineering and natural resource aspects of the Morrill Act. And both Berkeley and Davis have the ROTC programs, as is required by the Morrill Act. Along with the five universities, the University of California has nine Research and Extension Centers. Outside of those 14 locations, the University of California has at least 56 other Cooperative Extensions. The University of California has a presence in each of the 58 counties of California. Oregon State University has 13 branch stations: Astoria, Burns, Central Point, Hermiston, Hood River, Klamath Falls, Madras, Moro, Newport, Ontario, Pendleton, Portland, and Union. The one at Union is the oldest, founded in 1901. |
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Nice to see you agree with my Mr. Potter analogy, of the B10 and B12 buying "distressed" properties (in 2023) at 40 cents on the dollar and making them think they got a good deal. They did a textbook job of dividing and conquering. 
