ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,517
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Post by ftd on Aug 6, 2023 14:20:53 GMT -8
According to three people with knowledge of the terms, Apple offered the members a five-year deal with an annual base rate of $23 million per school (a subsequent counteroffer lifted it to $25 million), with incentives based on projected subscribers to a Pac-12 streaming product akin to Apple’s MLS League Pass. ier At 1.7 million subscribers, the per-school payout would match the $31.7 million average that Big 12 schools will reportedly receive from ESPN and Fox beginning in 2025. But Kliavkoff encouraged the room to think much bigger — at 5 million subscribers, the schools would eclipse $50 million per year, closer to the deep-pocketed SEC and Big Ten than the ACC or Big 12. theathletic.com/4752583/2023/08/05/pac12-apple-tv-deal-college-football-realignment/#From what I have read and understood, the problem that UW & UO (and maybe ASU and Utah) had with the proposed was that 5 million subscribers might have been a pipe dream and, more importantly, that they would not have enough (if any) exposure on the "linear" non-streaming networks. I can see their point in all that but wish they had valued the conference more. Yeah I see that as an issue...Seems it could be negotiated with Apple and the non-streaming providers like Cable, Dish, DirecTV. Add the "Apple Package' to the current sports pack that provides P12 Network...Apple gets paid, provider gets paid,fans get to watch how they want to watch |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 6, 2023 14:25:28 GMT -8
If true, 5 million subs could be reachable. According to three people with knowledge of the terms, Apple offered the members a five-year deal with an annual base rate of $23 million per school (a subsequent counteroffer lifted it to $25 million), with incentives based on projected subscribers to a Pac-12 streaming product akin to Apple’s MLS League Pass. At 1.7 million subscribers, the per-school payout would match the $31.7 million average that Big 12 schools will reportedly receive from ESPN and Fox beginning in 2025. But Kliavkoff encouraged the room to think much bigger — at 5 million subscribers, the schools would eclipse $50 million per year, closer to the deep-pocketed SEC and Big Ten than the ACC or Big 12. theathletic.com/4752583/2023/08/05/pac12-apple-tv-deal-college-football-realignment/#Assuming those three people are correct, the schools that bailed are fools. My issue with streaming is 'can you DVR it'? Maybe with an external DVR, but if you have cable or dish, probably not...makes it tough if you have another commitment and can't watch live, or it's a late game and you are tired and just want to hit they hay...and watch it bright an early next morning Why would you DVR something that is streamed? It's already there the second the program becomes available. Everyone who is subscribed gets everything on the service full time, any time, on any internet ready TV (ok, that one requires a login) as many times as they want, with full pause/rewind/etc functions. No having to remember setting the DVR. No games going into 3-5 overtimes having not set up enough "after the game" programming to see the end. No filling the DVR storage and having to decide what to toss. Streaming is awesome. |
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ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,517
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Post by ftd on Aug 6, 2023 14:31:31 GMT -8
According to three people with knowledge of the terms, Apple offered the members a five-year deal with an annual base rate of $23 million per school (a subsequent counteroffer lifted it to $25 million), with incentives based on projected subscribers to a Pac-12 streaming product akin to Apple’s MLS League Pass. At 1.7 million subscribers, the per-school payout would match the $31.7 million average that Big 12 schools will reportedly receive from ESPN and Fox beginning in 2025. But Kliavkoff encouraged the room to think much bigger — at 5 million subscribers, the schools would eclipse $50 million per year, closer to the deep-pocketed SEC and Big Ten than the ACC or Big 12. theathletic.com/4752583/2023/08/05/pac12-apple-tv-deal-college-football-realignment/#Assuming those three people are correct, the schools that bailed are fools. My issue with streaming is 'can you DVR it'? Maybe with an external DVR, but if you have cable or dish, probably not...makes it tough if you have another commitment and can't watch live, or it's a late game and you are tired and just want to hit they hay...and watch it bright an early next morning Why would you DVR something that is streamed? It's already there the second the program becomes available. Everyone who is subscribed gets everything on the service full time, any time, on any internet ready TV (ok, that one requires a login). No having to remember setting the DVR. No games going into 3-5 overtimes having not set up enough "after the game" programming to see the end. Streaming is awesome. My VCR isn't setup for streaming..Dial up modem only..  |
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thomasg86
Freshman
FTd
Posts: 376 
Grad Year: 2009
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Post by thomasg86 on Aug 6, 2023 18:39:36 GMT -8
Stanford is not going to join a conference with Boise State, Fresno State, etc. They are as good as gone as independents.
Hate to break it to everyone, but a league headlined with OSU, WSU, and Cal and filled up with a bunch of G5 schools is an irrelevant league in the big picture. Especially if it is steaming on Apple. Absolutely zero casuals are going to sign up and pay to watch. You needed Oregon, Washington, Utah for that. So maybe Apple still wants to do something, but the money is going to suck and nobody is going to see the games other than true fans of the school and some hardcore cfb sickos.
Plus, you can't get the MWC teams until 2025 due to the buyout, so if you want Boise, Fresno, SDSU... gonna have to merge with the MWC. At least there are linear outlets with their TV contract. But again, that's accepting a demotion to G5 status. I don't think you can accept that as Oregon State. We've worked too hard and invested in too much to just shrug our shoulders and plot a merger with the Tulanes of the world.
And yeah yeah, college football is going the wrong way and I totally agree, but personally I don't feel like playing in the minor leagues just hoping one day it all blows up so we have a real chance again.
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Post by 93beav on Aug 7, 2023 7:13:15 GMT -8
Stanford is not going to join a conference with Boise State, Fresno State, etc. They are as good as gone as independents. Hate to break it to everyone, but a league headlined with OSU, WSU, and Cal and filled up with a bunch of G5 schools is an irrelevant league in the big picture. Especially if it is steaming on Apple. Absolutely zero casuals are going to sign up and pay to watch. You needed Oregon, Washington, Utah for that. So maybe Apple still wants to do something, but the money is going to suck and nobody is going to see the games other than true fans of the school and some hardcore cfb sickos. Plus, you can't get the MWC teams until 2025 due to the buyout, so if you want Boise, Fresno, SDSU... gonna have to merge with the MWC. At least there are linear outlets with their TV contract. But again, that's accepting a demotion to G5 status. I don't think you can accept that as Oregon State. We've worked too hard and invested in too much to just shrug our shoulders and plot a merger with the Tulanes of the world. And yeah yeah, college football is going the wrong way and I totally agree, but personally I don't feel like playing in the minor leagues just hoping one day it all blows up so we have a real chance again. Eh...agree with some of that. But "zero casuals are going to..." that's not true. That's what ESPN After Dark was famous for. Late-nighters on the East coast and Central time zone who just wanted something to watch while they waited for bed. It's not a huge draw, for sure, but it's definitely more than zero casuals. |
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Post by aggielarry on Aug 7, 2023 8:32:47 GMT -8
I seem to recall when we were looking at being the Pac 16 there was discussion of Boise State...but it was a no go because of academic/research standards required by the then Pac 12...Has that requirement changed? 3 of the 4 Pac universities going forward are Land grant universities, 2 of them are considered by some to be "Ag schools". Could there be some loosening of requirements to some degree? Note: not that there's anything wrong with being a Land Grant or Ag school - it just sounds less snobbish. I like keeping standards, but also the idea of encouraging others to reach those standards. Perhaps a probationary entry based on progress before "full" membership benefits for schools that don't quite meet some previous "requirements" yet do meet others? I dislike the idea of blanket NOs if a school is working towards a goal. Only OSU and WSU are Land Grants. The Land Grant for California is UC Davis. Five of the current MWC schools are Land Grants: Wyoming, CSU, Nevada, USU, and affiliate Hawaii. I know you really don't want to hear it, but the MWC is a better fit than the PAC for OSU and WSU. Why not come to a conference that would actually be happy to have you? |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 7, 2023 10:02:11 GMT -8
3 of the 4 Pac universities going forward are Land grant universities, 2 of them are considered by some to be "Ag schools". Could there be some loosening of requirements to some degree? Note: not that there's anything wrong with being a Land Grant or Ag school - it just sounds less snobbish. I like keeping standards, but also the idea of encouraging others to reach those standards. Perhaps a probationary entry based on progress before "full" membership benefits for schools that don't quite meet some previous "requirements" yet do meet others? I dislike the idea of blanket NOs if a school is working towards a goal. Only OSU and WSU are Land Grants. The Land Grant for California is UC Davis. Five of the current MWC schools are Land Grants: Wyoming, CSU, Nevada, USU, and affiliate Hawaii. I know you really don't want to hear it, but the MWC is a better fit than the PAC for OSU and WSU. Why not come to a conference that would actually be happy to have you? And, a conference that has "survived" quite nicely on far less money, one that fits the persona and profile of what OSU is all about before the battle of the wallets began. The Pac12 is gone and most every poster here biotched and complained about multiple issues and the administration. In a quick dive the MWC fans seem very happy with the overall administration of their conference and there has been no escalated "keep up with the Jones'" mentality. The only major issue that seems to permeate is the additional share of revenue BSU gets because of their football success and to keep them from bolting. Well, that'd be solved with a merger and let 'em bolt. There are now (2) super conferences. The ACC and B12 are far inferior to the B10 and SEC. They are/will be "super" in size only and will continue to be a minor player in the overall scheme of the CFP. Those two conferences will try to make it up with successes in hoops. But, look at the B12 minus Texas and Oklahoma... what perennial Top 12 teams do you see that OSU could not compete with by winning a merged Pac4/MWC auto berth. The B12 offers OSU nothing, especially with a reduced "pity" payout. OSU, Cal, Stanford, WSU can merge with all the MWC (for now), get a decent Apple deal at maybe $12-20 million per team on a sliding scale with Pac4 members getting a bigger slice initially on a 5 years deal with a opt-in escalation clause. The Pac4 has a nice bankroll coming over that same time span and can be "independent" of those media outlets who caused this entire debacle. Plus, when a conference member or two begins show they are indeed a consistent Top 12 team those media guys will come sniffing around to buy "games" and Apple can deal with them accordingly. The conference would have an auto berth in the CFP for their champion. If another team was top 12, they'd get another berth. And, most importantly they would have and "autonomy" label/status with the NCAA with two seasons to show what they can do before that next scheduled vote. Meaning the same CFP payout from the NCAA the others get... last I saw it was $66 million per conference two years ago. It also allows enough teams to creatively schedule and add quality NC opponents in every sport. And, again from very brief research, a merger could allow some collaboration and compromise where the MWC commissioner heads the new league while George takes a lesser role until his contract is up (unless the Pac4 can fire him with cause without any "golden parachute"). Speaking in terms of OSU only... the Beavers could enjoy tremendous successes (or should... if not they certainly would not do well in the B12!) and embolden a fan base with successes throughout multiple programs while retaining an identity that more reflects Oregonians/OSU fans as a whole. Being aligned with a tech giant is a good thing. Apple & Amazon are the entities that scare the sh&t out of media folks. If they chose either one can win ANY bidding war for any media property they want. Being on the ground floor would be a huge positive and give the OSU/conference a truly unique stance. My personal belief is an Apple deal without the (8) that left is ideal. And, that a merged conference is the best way to move forward, short and long term. |
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Post by seastape on Aug 7, 2023 11:14:14 GMT -8
Only OSU and WSU are Land Grants. The Land Grant for California is UC Davis. Five of the current MWC schools are Land Grants: Wyoming, CSU, Nevada, USU, and affiliate Hawaii. I know you really don't want to hear it, but the MWC is a better fit than the PAC for OSU and WSU. Why not come to a conference that would actually be happy to have you? And, a conference that has "survived" quite nicely on far less money, one that fits the persona and profile of what OSU is all about before the battle of the wallets began. The Pac12 is gone and most every poster here biotched and complained about multiple issues and the administration. In a quick dive the MWC fans seem very happy with the overall administration of their conference and there has been no escalated "keep up with the Jones'" mentality. The only major issue that seems to permeate is the additional share of revenue BSU gets because of their football success and to keep them from bolting. Well, that'd be solved with a merger and let 'em bolt. There are now (2) super conferences. The ACC and B12 are far inferior to the B10 and SEC. They are/will be "super" in size only and will continue to be a minor player in the overall scheme of the CFP. Those two conferences will try to make it up with successes in hoops. But, look at the B12 minus Texas and Oklahoma... what perennial Top 12 teams do you see that OSU could not compete with by winning a merged Pac4/MWC auto berth. The B12 offers OSU nothing, especially with a reduced "pity" payout. OSU, Cal, Stanford, WSU can merge with all the MWC (for now), get a decent Apple deal at maybe $12-20 million per team on a sliding scale with Pac4 members getting a bigger slice initially on a 5 years deal with a opt-in escalation clause. The Pac4 has a nice bankroll coming over that same time span and can be "independent" of those media outlets who caused this entire debacle. Plus, when a conference member or two begins show they are indeed a consistent Top 12 team those media guys will come sniffing around to buy "games" and Apple can deal with them accordingly. The conference would have an auto berth in the CFP for their champion. If another team was top 12, they'd get another berth. And, most importantly they would have and "autonomy" label/status with the NCAA with two seasons to show what they can do before that next scheduled vote. Meaning the same CFP payout from the NCAA the others get... last I saw it was $66 million per conference two years ago. It also allows enough teams to creatively schedule and add quality NC opponents in every sport. And, again from very brief research, a merger could allow some collaboration and compromise where the MWC commissioner heads the new league while George takes a lesser role until his contract is up (unless the Pac4 can fire him with cause without any "golden parachute"). Speaking in terms of OSU only... the Beavers could enjoy tremendous successes (or should... if not they certainly would not do well in the B12!) and embolden a fan base with successes throughout multiple programs while retaining an identity that more reflects Oregonians/OSU fans as a whole. Being aligned with a tech giant is a good thing. Apple & Amazon are the entities that scare the sh&t out of media folks. If they chose either one can win ANY bidding war for any media property they want. Being on the ground floor would be a huge positive and give the OSU/conference a truly unique stance. My personal belief is an Apple deal without the (8) that left is ideal. And, that a merged conference is the best way to move forward, short and long term. Agreed. I will add that it would be a great bonus to get the rest of the G5 on the same platform. Chip Kelly said that there should be 60 teams under the same media deal and be separated by region. He was talking about the big conferences. I agree, but I would like to see it applied to the G5, which more likely than not seems to be where we are heading. I think it would help media bargaining power across all G5 conferences as well as possibly preserving regionality, which I think will be beneficial in the long run. |
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Post by bvrbred on Aug 7, 2023 11:43:27 GMT -8
3 of the 4 Pac universities going forward are Land grant universities, 2 of them are considered by some to be "Ag schools". Could there be some loosening of requirements to some degree? Note: not that there's anything wrong with being a Land Grant or Ag school - it just sounds less snobbish. I like keeping standards, but also the idea of encouraging others to reach those standards. Perhaps a probationary entry based on progress before "full" membership benefits for schools that don't quite meet some previous "requirements" yet do meet others? I dislike the idea of blanket NOs if a school is working towards a goal. Only OSU and WSU are Land Grants. The Land Grant for California is UC Davis. Five of the current MWC schools are Land Grants: Wyoming, CSU, Nevada, USU, and affiliate Hawaii. I know you really don't want to hear it, but the MWC is a better fit than the PAC for OSU and WSU. Why not come to a conference that would actually be happy to have you? OSU, WSU, and Cal were all Morrill Act schools. Davis was originally not a school at all but the UC system farm, then an agricultural research station along with Riverside. Eventually the two research stations became UC schools but I believe Cal is still the official Morrill Act school, although the agriculture, or most of it, has now been delegated to UC Davis. I don't know about the two other Morrill Act mandates, which are martial arts and mechanic arts. Pretty sure Berkeley stil has an engineering program. Don't know about ROTC. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 7, 2023 11:47:40 GMT -8
I guess Wikipedia could be wrong, but...
"The University of California, Berkeley (UC Berkeley, Berkeley, Cal, or California) is a public land-grant research university in Berkeley, California. It was established in 1868 as the University of California and is the state's first land-grant university and the founding campus of the University of California system."
I actually got my original info off the Land Grant University map. Didn't see any reason to doubt it either.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Aug 7, 2023 12:14:35 GMT -8
According to Pete Thamel of ESPN the ACC is going to Vet and have exploratory discussions about adding Cal and Stanford.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 7, 2023 12:25:45 GMT -8
3 of the 4 Pac universities going forward are Land grant universities, 2 of them are considered by some to be "Ag schools". Could there be some loosening of requirements to some degree? Note: not that there's anything wrong with being a Land Grant or Ag school - it just sounds less snobbish. I like keeping standards, but also the idea of encouraging others to reach those standards. Perhaps a probationary entry based on progress before "full" membership benefits for schools that don't quite meet some previous "requirements" yet do meet others? I dislike the idea of blanket NOs if a school is working towards a goal. Only OSU and WSU are Land Grants. The Land Grant for California is UC Davis. Five of the current MWC schools are Land Grants: Wyoming, CSU, Nevada, USU, and affiliate Hawaii. I know you really don't want to hear it, but the MWC is a better fit than the PAC for OSU and WSU. Why not come to a conference that would actually be happy to have you? The University of California in Berkeley is California's first and, for the last 18 years, only Land Grant University. There was a Lang Grant University in Davis, but it was Deganawidah-Quetzalcoatl University, not UC Davis. Deganawidah-Quetzalcoatl University closed in 2005 and lost its Land Grant University status. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 7, 2023 12:26:39 GMT -8
According to Pete Thamel of ESPN the ACC is going to Vet and have exploratory discussions about adding Cal and Stanford. The ACC is looking to add teams to try and renegotiate their contract. They are all stuck until 2036 with the same contract and teams, unless they add more before then. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 7, 2023 12:35:36 GMT -8
So I guess the MW gets like 7 mil per school for football TV deal.....is that right?
So let's say we merge with MW in some form......is there any foreseeable chance that will have the money to keep Smith around?
Maybe you guys talked about the numbers making sense further upsteam but I didn't see it.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 7, 2023 13:02:27 GMT -8
Mountain West signed a deal 3 years ago that pays 4 million a year per school through '26 according to multiple sources I've seen. I'm not sure where people are getting higher numbers. www.sportspromedia.com/news/mountain-west-conference-tv-rights-cbs-fox-sports/It'd be a bad first year. I'm not sure if a renegotiated MWC contract would have as much upside as a rebuilt Pac 12 whatever contract would have. |
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