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Post by sparty on Jul 28, 2023 11:41:45 GMT -8
Since speculation is running wild.... I'll say hole and the fuskies end up in the B10.....Utah, ARZ schools in B12 Not sure about Cal and Furd. Us, and wazzu in the MWC I'm holding onto hope that we get into the B12..... I thought the B12 had a written cap on how large there conference could be? Less openings than schools that want to be there. |
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Post by sparty on Jul 28, 2023 11:46:45 GMT -8
Since speculation is running wild.... I'll say hole and the fuskies end up in the B10.....Utah, ARZ schools in B12 Not sure about Cal and Furd. Us, and wazzu in the MWC I'm holding onto hope that we get into the B12..... If UO and UW go Big Ten they will rarely see play-offs, giving Big 10 2 teams every year, means they will have to beat out Michigan and Buckeyes, and probably Penn St, just don't really see that happening more than once a decade. Rescue the Pac 9 and they are in the hunt virtaully every year. I think we would welcome the Big Ten even if it meant never making the playoffs or a conference championship.
Each of the 11 Big members receiving a full distribution from the conference received $58.8 million from the conference. Even if it dropped to 40 million at a partial share that could fund alot of the non revenue sports. The dollars are staggering anything the Pac could cobble together. I think that was around 24 million or so.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 28, 2023 12:04:57 GMT -8
With USC, UCLA and Colorado gone we need SDSU and CSU just to maintain a presence in those regions. That doesn't get us to 12 teams though. I'd think adding Fresneck would further solidify California TV eyeballs, adding SMU would be opening up new territory (which would help to appease whoever is buying media rights). Then make a push for Tulane or another school in that region (with UNLV as a fallback option) to get to 14 (which would further appease the media partners). At which point a lot of the negotiating power has returned, so work out an escalator clause for more money for every school IF and when the Pac 14 can add 2 additional existing Power 5 or equivalent schools the TV partners agree on. There likely would be a couple big schools interested in making the jump within a couple years. Win/Win. I've thought for a while now 12 or fewer teams will kill this conference, considering others are looking at 14 or more. Staying pat with 12, or shrinking to 10, makes the conference look weaker than it really is. This year should be a good year for the Pac 12, losing USC and UCLA (both of which have been down at times in the last decade) a year later shouldn't kill it. Right now the university presidents are letting it kill the conference. I am still not sold on the idea that Fresno gets us any eyeballs. They are in a very small market in a very large state. Does getting us Fresno give us Los Angeles? My guess is no. There are better universities. |
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Post by ochobeavo on Jul 28, 2023 12:08:43 GMT -8
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Post by irimi on Jul 28, 2023 12:13:13 GMT -8
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Post by gotmilk on Jul 28, 2023 13:43:34 GMT -8
Let’s get it done. Now. PAC 12 is done if we wait we’re done too
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Post by nabeav on Jul 28, 2023 13:43:45 GMT -8
If UO and UW go Big Ten they will rarely see play-offs, giving Big 10 2 teams every year, means they will have to beat out Michigan and Buckeyes, and probably Penn St, just don't really see that happening more than once a decade. Rescue the Pac 9 and they are in the hunt virtaully every year. I think we would welcome the Big Ten even if it meant never making the playoffs or a conference championship.
Each of the 11 Big members receiving a full distribution from the conference received $58.8 million from the conference. Even if it dropped to 40 million at a partial share that could fund alot of the non revenue sports. The dollars are staggering anything the Pac could cobble together. I think that was around 24 million or so.
Considering we won a partial share of a conference championship 23 years ago and have never been to the playoffs as a member of the Pac-12, I can't imagine turning down the offer (if made), particularly considering the unstable future of the Pac-12. Money isn't everything, and most of our athletic programs are competitive nationally as is. We don't appear to be "hurting" for money...or at least it's not reported as such the way it was 15 years ago or so, so I think staying on the west coast for non monetary reasons (rivalries, student athlete experience, reduced travel/environmental benefits, etc.) would make sense provided we are financially stable and can maintain reasonable competitiveness in most sports. |
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Post by ag87 on Jul 28, 2023 13:45:14 GMT -8
I made a crack about cross country and Colorado. But I do think it's a big deal. These are my mostly uninformed opinions.
The Big12 is a better fit for Colorado. It's a plains state and their rival is Nebraska. But I think there is more local interest in Colorado vs Texas Tech than Colorado vs Oregon State or Stanford.
Why would Oregon State ever go to the Big12 and why would the Big12 ever covet Oregon State? I think saying there is a 1/10 of one percent chance of that happening is overstating.
Why would any remaining Pac9 University want to go to the Big12? I can kind of see Arizona, but no one else. Like Colorado, it may help their football team gain competitiveness. But Arizona is tied to the west coast, not Texas and Kansas.
The two super conference makes almost no sense for football and less than that for everything else. Two super conferences of 24 teams? Why have a conference if you see some members once every six years?
My time in Colorado has been sitting in an office in downtown Denver for three or four days about five times. Maybe because I'm an engineer but I heard as much talk about CSU as CU. Colorado State vs Arizona State will outdraw and have more eyeballs than Colorado vs Central Florida.
Someone in this thread talked about patience. If the current nine add Colorado State, San Diego State, and SMU they will outperform the ACC and Big12 on the field and maybe in TV viewership. If a media deal is short, around six years, a much bigger deal will be coming.
I believe UCLA and USC left the PAC because their administration folk were mostly midwesterners. I also believe their fan base already regrets it. When administration changes, I'm guessing they want back in. I'm not sure of the Colorado administration. But I do think Kansas State vs Colorado and Oklahoma State vs Colorado has some pull for their fans. I don't think any Colorado State fan will miss playing New Mexico, Fresno State, (somewhat Wyoming because it is only 90 minutes away) or Hawaii in football.
Finally the PAC does need to move in the direction of a "keep what you kill" financial model.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 28, 2023 14:08:13 GMT -8
With USC, UCLA and Colorado gone we need SDSU and CSU just to maintain a presence in those regions. That doesn't get us to 12 teams though. I'd think adding Fresneck would further solidify California TV eyeballs, adding SMU would be opening up new territory (which would help to appease whoever is buying media rights). Then make a push for Tulane or another school in that region (with UNLV as a fallback option) to get to 14 (which would further appease the media partners). At which point a lot of the negotiating power has returned, so work out an escalator clause for more money for every school IF and when the Pac 14 can add 2 additional existing Power 5 or equivalent schools the TV partners agree on. There likely would be a couple big schools interested in making the jump within a couple years. Win/Win. I've thought for a while now 12 or fewer teams will kill this conference, considering others are looking at 14 or more. Staying pat with 12, or shrinking to 10, makes the conference look weaker than it really is. This year should be a good year for the Pac 12, losing USC and UCLA (both of which have been down at times in the last decade) a year later shouldn't kill it. Right now the university presidents are letting it kill the conference. I am still not sold on the idea that Fresno gets us any eyeballs. They are in a very small market in a very large state. Does getting us Fresno give us Los Angeles? My guess is no. There are better universities. From what I'm seeing, Fresno is in the 55th ranked TV market, not big but not tiny. If they do well and draw fans from the entire Central Valley that market sizes jumps substantially. As it is, FSU already had a higher average viewership than SDSU medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2022-94eca4f6acbdMy main goal is to keep California eyeballs. We've now got the mountain states somewhat locked in (assuming the CSU scenario comes to fruition and others don't leave). Unfortunately the major power schools in Texas are already committed. SMU I think is a good idea, I'd like to have a Houston school as well, but Tulane has shown interest and would be a good backup. I think both FSU's and SDSU's viewership would rise dramatically (not enough to "replace" the loss of USC and UCLA) with a move to the Pac 12/14/16. BSU had reasonable viewing numbers, but they kinda have their region locked up and there probably isn't as much upside potential, so that's why I left them out. I'd welcome an Oklahoma State or a Tulsa type school(a big city school anyways, the university itself is pretty small). I don't think we'll ever poach a Big 10 school. I'd be thrilled if we could get a couple east coast teams to commit to coming this way (much rater see that than having Pac12 teams go there), but we're kind of running low on bigger market relatively successful football schools that gave expressed interest or aren't locked into long term agreements. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jul 28, 2023 14:34:18 GMT -8
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jul 28, 2023 14:45:46 GMT -8
With USC, UCLA and Colorado gone we need SDSU and CSU just to maintain a presence in those regions. That doesn't get us to 12 teams though. I'd think adding Fresneck would further solidify California TV eyeballs, adding SMU would be opening up new territory (which would help to appease whoever is buying media rights). Then make a push for Tulane or another school in that region (with UNLV as a fallback option) to get to 14 (which would further appease the media partners). At which point a lot of the negotiating power has returned, so work out an escalator clause for more money for every school IF and when the Pac 14 can add 2 additional existing Power 5 or equivalent schools the TV partners agree on. There likely would be a couple big schools interested in making the jump within a couple years. Win/Win. I've thought for a while now 12 or fewer teams will kill this conference, considering others are looking at 14 or more. Staying pat with 12, or shrinking to 10, makes the conference look weaker than it really is. This year should be a good year for the Pac 12, losing USC and UCLA (both of which have been down at times in the last decade) a year later shouldn't kill it. Right now the university presidents are letting it kill the conference. I am still not sold on the idea that Fresno gets us any eyeballs. They are in a very small market in a very large state. Does getting us Fresno give us Los Angeles? My guess is no. There are better universities. Fresneck is generally pooled with the Sac-Modesto-Stockton market...which is the 20th largest in the country. |
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Post by steinlager on Jul 28, 2023 14:56:54 GMT -8
Beavs to Big 12?? Not my first choice but more lucrative than Mountain West would be.
Maybe this gives OSU leverage against the remaining eight other schools in negotiating full shares for members.
I keep hearing UW and ucks want the lions share.
Hard to know what to believe or what's going to happen.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 28, 2023 15:02:28 GMT -8
I made a crack about cross country and Colorado. But I do think it's a big deal. These are my mostly uninformed opinions. The Big12 is a better fit for Colorado. It's a plains state and their rival is Nebraska. But I think there is more local interest in Colorado vs Texas Tech than Colorado vs Oregon State or Stanford. Why would Oregon State ever go to the Big12 and why would the Big12 ever covet Oregon State? I think saying there is a 1/10 of one percent chance of that happening is overstating. Why would any remaining Pac9 University want to go to the Big12? I can kind of see Arizona, but no one else. Like Colorado, it may help their football team gain competitiveness. But Arizona is tied to the west coast, not Texas and Kansas. The two super conference makes almost no sense for football and less than that for everything else. Two super conferences of 24 teams? Why have a conference if you see some members once every six years? My time in Colorado has been sitting in an office in downtown Denver for three or four days about five times. Maybe because I'm an engineer but I heard as much talk about CSU as CU. Colorado State vs Arizona State will outdraw and have more eyeballs than Colorado vs Central Florida. Someone in this thread talked about patience. If the current nine add Colorado State, San Diego State, and SMU they will outperform the ACC and Big12 on the field and maybe in TV viewership. If a media deal is short, around six years, a much bigger deal will be coming. I believe UCLA and USC left the PAC because their administration folk were mostly midwesterners. I also believe their fan base already regrets it. When administration changes, I'm guessing they want back in. I'm not sure of the Colorado administration. But I do think Kansas State vs Colorado and Oklahoma State vs Colorado has some pull for their fans. I don't think any Colorado State fan will miss playing New Mexico, Fresno State, (somewhat Wyoming because it is only 90 minutes away) or Hawaii in football. Finally the PAC does need to move in the direction of a "keep what you kill" financial model. Colorado's rival is Colorado State. The Big 12 team that Colorado played most? Missouri. Colorado has played Nebraska two more times than Colorado has played Utah. The Colorado-Nebraska Rivalry was a make-believe rivalry that was created with the creation of the Big 12 in 1996. Colorado and Nebraska were "rivals" for 15 years. Before 1996, Nebraska's rival was Oklahoma. Nebraska and Oklahoma were each other's Big 6/7/8 season finale in 50 of the 57 meetings between 1939 and 1995. My old boss two or three bosses (or maybe four, depending on how you count) was a big Nebraska honk. And he hated Oklahoma more than anyone. He could care less about Colorado. Colorado may have adorably thought that they were rivals with Nebraska, just like Baylor and Texas Tech believed that they were rivals with Texas. Adorable! Between 1972 and 1990, Colorado's rival was Kansas State, playing each other in the season finale or the penultimate game every single year. Before that, Air Force and Colorado were primary rivals, playing each other in the final weekend of the season in 14 of 15 seasons with only Kansas State sneaking in once to take the spot. 1956 and 1957 were transition years with Colorado finishing with Arizona and Iowa State, respectively. Colorado finished against Colorado State in seven of the previous nine with only Kansas State and Michigan State jumping in to take up that position. And before that Colorado was in the Mountain States/Rocky Mountain Conference, finishing up against a team from Colorado in the final 16 years before joining the Big Six. (Colorado was the seventh in the Big Seven. Oklahoma State was the eighth in the Big Eight.) As for Colorado State, Colorado State and Wyoming's biggest rivals are each other. List of most-played interstate rivalries: 1. Paul Bunyan's Axe (Minnesota v. Wisconson)
2. The Deep South & South's Oldest Rivalry (Auburn v. Georgia and North Carolina v. Virginia)
4. Army-Navy Game
5. The Game (Michigan v. Ohio State); Kentucky-Tennessee Rivalry, & Red River Showdown (Oklahoma v. Texas)
8. Floyd of Rosedale(Iowa v. Minnesota) & LSU-Mississippi State
10. Border War (Colorado State & Wyoming) & Oregon-Washington Rivalry
Border War has been played as often as the Apple Cup and the Oregon-Washington Rivalry and more often than the Magnolia Bowl and Oregon State's rivalry with both Washington and Wazzu. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 28, 2023 15:15:19 GMT -8
I am still not sold on the idea that Fresno gets us any eyeballs. They are in a very small market in a very large state. Does getting us Fresno give us Los Angeles? My guess is no. There are better universities. From what I'm seeing, Fresno is in the 55th ranked TV market, not big but not tiny. If they do well and draw fans from the entire Central Valley that market sizes jumps substantially. As it is, FSU already had a higher average viewership than SDSU medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2022-94eca4f6acbdMy main goal is to keep California eyeballs. We've now got the mountain states somewhat locked in (assuming the CSU scenario comes to fruition and others don't leave). Unfortunately the major power schools in Texas are already committed. SMU I think is a good idea, I'd like to have a Houston school as well, but Tulane has shown interest and would be a good backup. I think both FSU's and SDSU's viewership would rise dramatically (not enough to "replace" the loss of USC and UCLA) with a move to the Pac 12/14/16. BSU had reasonable viewing numbers, but they kinda have their region locked up and there probably isn't as much upside potential, so that's why I left them out. I'd welcome an Oklahoma State or a Tulsa type school(a big city school anyways, the university itself is pretty small). I don't think we'll ever poach a Big 10 school. I'd be thrilled if we could get a couple east coast teams to commit to coming this way (much rater see that than having Pac12 teams go there), but we're kind of running low on bigger market relatively successful football schools that gave expressed interest or aren't locked into long term agreements. The Pac-12 already gets Sacramento based on having both California and Stanford. Fresno is almost twice as far away from Sacramento than Berkeley. There is no way that adding Fresno gets you Sacramento better than California and Stanford get you Sacramento. The question is does Fresno bring in Los Angeles better than say San Diego State? If the answer is yes, invite Fresno. Otherwise, no. Hard pass. I believe that the answer is no, so hard pass. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Jul 28, 2023 15:19:09 GMT -8
From what I'm seeing, Fresno is in the 55th ranked TV market, not big but not tiny. If they do well and draw fans from the entire Central Valley that market sizes jumps substantially. As it is, FSU already had a higher average viewership than SDSU medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2022-94eca4f6acbdMy main goal is to keep California eyeballs. We've now got the mountain states somewhat locked in (assuming the CSU scenario comes to fruition and others don't leave). Unfortunately the major power schools in Texas are already committed. SMU I think is a good idea, I'd like to have a Houston school as well, but Tulane has shown interest and would be a good backup. I think both FSU's and SDSU's viewership would rise dramatically (not enough to "replace" the loss of USC and UCLA) with a move to the Pac 12/14/16. BSU had reasonable viewing numbers, but they kinda have their region locked up and there probably isn't as much upside potential, so that's why I left them out. I'd welcome an Oklahoma State or a Tulsa type school(a big city school anyways, the university itself is pretty small). I don't think we'll ever poach a Big 10 school. I'd be thrilled if we could get a couple east coast teams to commit to coming this way (much rater see that than having Pac12 teams go there), but we're kind of running low on bigger market relatively successful football schools that gave expressed interest or aren't locked into long term agreements. The Pac-12 already gets Sacramento based on having both California and Stanford. Fresno is almost twice as far away from Sacramento than Berkeley. There is no way that adding Fresno gets you Sacramento better than California and Stanford get you Sacramento. The question is does Fresno bring in Los Angeles better than say San Diego State? If the answer is yes, invite Fresno. Otherwise, no. Hard pass. I believe that the answer is no, so hard pass. Adding CSU, SDSU, MSU and UNLV in that order makes sense to me. Maybe my personal prejudice based on past performance taints my perspective on BSU and FSU - but screw those guys. I give FSU credit for getting much better in the past decade or so, but BSU? Hard pass for me |
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