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Post by seastape on Jul 27, 2023 18:44:57 GMT -8
It stuns me that some people think CU leaving is not that big a deal. But, looking into the future...
It is my understanding that the Pac 12, as a conference, owns a fair amount of media infrastructure throughout the league schools, infrastructure that has allowed the Pac 12 to show the conference’s sporting events and shows in a cost-effective manner on the Pac 12 Network. Does this equipment belong to the conference or the individual schools? What happens to that equipment when the departing schools leave? Do the remaining schools in the Pac X get to keep it? If so, will George Klaivkoff protect the rights of the remaining schools so that they can distribute the equipment collected from departing members to newly joining members? Are the departing schools giving up their rights to the equipment?
I ask these questions because I fear that a conference meltdown could be happening before our very eyes and WSU and OSU will be left behind. If so, it would be nice to have that equipment for OSU and WSU to distribute to an additional 10 new members to the conference and use it to promote the conference, even if it had to be done in a direct-to-consumer fashion.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 27, 2023 18:48:55 GMT -8
Thumbs up to the first paragraph.
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Post by sparty on Jul 27, 2023 19:00:03 GMT -8
It stuns me that some people think CU leaving is not that big a deal. But, looking into the future... It is my understanding that the Pac 12, as a conference, owns a fair amount of media infrastructure throughout the league schools, infrastructure that has allowed the Pac 12 to show the conference’s sporting events and shows in a cost-effective manner on the Pac 12 Network. Does this equipment belong to the conference or the individual schools? What happens to that equipment when the departing schools leave? Do the remaining schools in the Pac X get to keep it? If so, will George Klaivkoff protect the rights of the remaining schools so that they can distribute the equipment collected from departing members to newly joining members? Are the departing schools giving up their rights to the equipment? I ask these questions because I fear that a conference meltdown could be happening before our very eyes and WSU and OSU will be left behind. If so, it would be nice to have that equipment for OSU and WSU to distribute to an additional 10 new members to the conference and use it to promote the conference, even if it had to be done in a direct-to-consumer fashion. Please expand in detail on the equipment you are talking about. You mean television camera's, stage sets. Video trucks? I think most of the stuff is rented or solely sub contracted out. Then what station would use the equipment. I would think the Pac stations would cease to exist at all on SLING and other pay for providers if the pac loses more teams even with gaining new ones.
There is video equipment schools already own if you are thinking about it to live stream football games over the internet by each home team.
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Post by seastape on Jul 27, 2023 21:00:09 GMT -8
It stuns me that some people think CU leaving is not that big a deal. But, looking into the future... It is my understanding that the Pac 12, as a conference, owns a fair amount of media infrastructure throughout the league schools, infrastructure that has allowed the Pac 12 to show the conference’s sporting events and shows in a cost-effective manner on the Pac 12 Network. Does this equipment belong to the conference or the individual schools? What happens to that equipment when the departing schools leave? Do the remaining schools in the Pac X get to keep it? If so, will George Klaivkoff protect the rights of the remaining schools so that they can distribute the equipment collected from departing members to newly joining members? Are the departing schools giving up their rights to the equipment? I ask these questions because I fear that a conference meltdown could be happening before our very eyes and WSU and OSU will be left behind. If so, it would be nice to have that equipment for OSU and WSU to distribute to an additional 10 new members to the conference and use it to promote the conference, even if it had to be done in a direct-to-consumer fashion. Please expand in detail on the equipment you are talking about. You mean television camera's, stage sets. Video trucks? I think most of the stuff is rented or solely sub contracted out. Then what station would use the equipment. I would think the Pac stations would cease to exist at all on SLING and other pay for providers if the pac loses more teams even with gaining new ones.
There is video equipment schools already own if you are thinking about it to live stream football games over the internet by each home team.
The Pac 12 Networks developed an extremely efficient production technology, most of which is located at the conference's facility in San Ramon, CA (moved from San Francisco) but also has equipment at each campus. www.sportsvideo.org/2022/02/07/pac-12-networks-continues-to-blaze-remote-production-trail-with-new-software-defined-production-model/ www.sportsvideo.org/2015/03/12/pac-12-networks-covers-remote-sports-live-via-ip-production-model/#:~:text=Using%20a%20conference-wide%20IP%20network%2C%20P12N%20is%20able,Francisco%20studios%20into%20the%20traditional%20onsite%20television-production%20truck. Wilner and Canzano, I believe, wrote about the Pac 12 using this technology/model as a conference asset that would assist the Pac 12 in its efforts to secure a better media rights deal. Hasn't panned out. It's my thought that the Pac 12 is in danger of fizzling out. If that happens, I would like the last remaining members of the Pac, likely to be OSU and WSU, to use the production technology to lure other schools to the conference. I could easily envision a western conference, called the Pac X (x for unknown #) that includes OSU, WSU, and a lot of the Moutain West. Think not? Utah was a member of the Mountain West. Right now media is reporting that the Pac 12 is looking at Mountain West members schools San Diego State and Colorado State as candidates for Pac expansion and another school, SMU, that is in a G5 conference. Arizona and Arizona State were members of the predecessor to the Mountain West, the Western Athletic Conference. So far, only 25% of the Pac 12 have left in (just over a little of) the past year, but it is not hard at all to envision more leaving. Canzano has reported that "sources in the Pac 12" have told him that getting a better media deal than the Big 12 would be "a slam dunk." Wilner has reported that "members of the Pac 12" expect a media deal that is within +/-10% of the Big 12's media deal. Wilner has also reported, over a month ago, that the Pac 12 could survive if Colorado left. Mainstream sports media such as Sports Illustrated, ESPN and many, many newspapers (or the internet remnants of) have reported that the Pac is going to get far less than the Big 12 and likely lose members. UW and uo are on their way to the big 10, along with maybe even Stanford and Cal for the academics, and the Four Corner Schools are headed to the Big 12. Woe to OSU and WSU, who will wind up in the Pac 12. This is not an uncommon theme. But the Big 10 isn't expanding and uo and UW have nowhere to go! Unless they decide to join the Big 12 because it's a better conference than the Pac to wait out an invitation to the big 10. That would put the Big 12 at 15 and leave them welcome to take their pick of the remaining four corner schools, including the Pac 12 football champion for the last two years, to get to 16. At that point the Pac is at 6 members, with it's four biggest football programs (by far) gone and CSU, SDSU, and SMU getting the conference to nine (9) schools, probably in need of at least three more to make a go of it. To where do they go? Continue to dig deeper into the G5? And at that point the Pac is getting close to MWC money and relevance. The MWC doesn't get all it's football and basketball games on tv like the current Pac does, and certainly doesn't get anywhere close to Pac for baseball, softball, soccer, et al. So maybe having a high production media infrastructure and a willingness to stream for exposure and revenue might be an idea that the remaining members of the Pac should be thinking about, and that right soon. |
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Post by beaver55to7 on Jul 28, 2023 3:00:08 GMT -8
Please expand in detail on the equipment you are talking about. You mean television camera's, stage sets. Video trucks? I think most of the stuff is rented or solely sub contracted out. Then what station would use the equipment. I would think the Pac stations would cease to exist at all on SLING and other pay for providers if the pac loses more teams even with gaining new ones.
There is video equipment schools already own if you are thinking about it to live stream football games over the internet by each home team.
The Pac 12 Networks developed an extremely efficient production technology, most of which is located at the conference's facility in San Ramon, CA (moved from San Francisco) but also has equipment at each campus. www.sportsvideo.org/2022/02/07/pac-12-networks-continues-to-blaze-remote-production-trail-with-new-software-defined-production-model/ www.sportsvideo.org/2015/03/12/pac-12-networks-covers-remote-sports-live-via-ip-production-model/#:~:text=Using%20a%20conference-wide%20IP%20network%2C%20P12N%20is%20able,Francisco%20studios%20into%20the%20traditional%20onsite%20television-production%20truck. Wilner and Canzano, I believe, wrote about the Pac 12 using this technology/model as a conference asset that would assist the Pac 12 in its efforts to secure a better media rights deal. Hasn't panned out. It's my thought that the Pac 12 is in danger of fizzling out. If that happens, I would like the last remaining members of the Pac, likely to be OSU and WSU, to use the production technology to lure other schools to the conference. I could easily envision a western conference, called the Pac X (x for unknown #) that includes OSU, WSU, and a lot of the Moutain West. Think not? Utah was a member of the Mountain West. Right now media is reporting that the Pac 12 is looking at Mountain West members schools San Diego State and Colorado State as candidates for Pac expansion and another school, SMU, that is in a G5 conference. Arizona and Arizona State were members of the predecessor to the Mountain West, the Western Athletic Conference. So far, only 25% of the Pac 12 have left in (just over a little of) the past year, but it is not hard at all to envision more leaving. Canzano has reported that "sources in the Pac 12" have told him that getting a better media deal than the Big 12 would be "a slam dunk." Wilner has reported that "members of the Pac 12" expect a media deal that is within +/-10% of the Big 12's media deal. Wilner has also reported, over a month ago, that the Pac 12 could survive if Colorado left. Mainstream sports media such as Sports Illustrated, ESPN and many, many newspapers (or the internet remnants of) have reported that the Pac is going to get far less than the Big 12 and likely lose members. UW and uo are on their way to the big 10, along with maybe even Stanford and Cal for the academics, and the Four Corner Schools are headed to the Big 12. Woe to OSU and WSU, who will wind up in the Pac 12. This is not an uncommon theme. But the Big 10 isn't expanding and uo and UW have nowhere to go! Unless they decide to join the Big 12 because it's a better conference than the Pac to wait out an invitation to the big 10. That would put the Big 12 at 15 and leave them welcome to take their pick of the remaining four corner schools, including the Pac 12 football champion for the last two years, to get to 16. At that point the Pac is at 6 members, with it's four biggest football programs (by far) gone and CSU, SDSU, and SMU getting the conference to nine (9) schools, probably in need of at least three more to make a go of it. To where do they go? Continue to dig deeper into the G5? And at that point the Pac is getting close to MWC money and relevance. The MWC doesn't get all it's football and basketball games on tv like the current Pac does, and certainly doesn't get anywhere close to Pac for baseball, softball, soccer, et al. So maybe having a high production media infrastructure and a willingness to stream for exposure and revenue might be an idea that the remaining members of the Pac should be thinking about, and that right soon. High schools stream their games now, it doesn’t matter if no one is watching. |
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bill82
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Post by bill82 on Jul 28, 2023 4:24:24 GMT -8
ESPN and Fox gave a bounty to the Big 12 to poach Power 5 schools. By giving the Big 12 an extra $31 million for every new P5 school, they did not have to negotiate a media deal with the Pac 12. Colorado enters as a full member. I believe Oregon State could take that deal as well. I have not heard any restrictions associated with the bounty.
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Post by nebraskabeav on Jul 28, 2023 5:43:38 GMT -8
ESPN and Fox gave a bounty to the Big 12 to poach Power 5 schools. By giving the Big 12 an extra $31 million for every new P5 school, they did not have to negotiate a media deal with the Pac 12. Colorado enters as a full member. I believe Oregon State could take that deal as well. I have not heard any restrictions associated with the bounty. There is a restriction in place. The $31 million to be a full member is reserved for Power 5 teams only and a max conference number of 16 teams. So potentially, Big XII can take up to 3 more Power 5 teams. This is why media was claiming the 4 corner schools - Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State.
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Post by sparty on Jul 28, 2023 5:56:12 GMT -8
ESPN and Fox gave a bounty to the Big 12 to poach Power 5 schools. By giving the Big 12 an extra $31 million for every new P5 school, they did not have to negotiate a media deal with the Pac 12. Colorado enters as a full member. I believe Oregon State could take that deal as well. I have not heard any restrictions associated with the bounty. There is a restriction in place. The $31 million to be a full member is reserved for Power 5 teams only and a max conference number of 16 teams. So potentially, Big XII can take up to 3 more Power 5 teams. This is why media was claiming the 4 corner schools - Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State.
But Washington and ore could mess that all up and have the Big12 as choice #2. See I don't think things are all done yet. I am sure the 9 pac schools are working the phones regardless of what they are saying in public. No one wants to be left to the MWC. |
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Post by nebraskabeav on Jul 28, 2023 5:56:59 GMT -8
Here is how I see things playing out at this point:
Colorado - Big XII
Oregon State - Big XII (Board of Trustees have scheduled a Special Meeting set for August 25th)
Big XII(2 spots), ACC(2 spots), and MWC(4 spots) = 8 spots left to reach 16 teams. There will be Five Power 5 conferences made up of 16 teams for a total of 80 teams. SEC and B1G are already full, having their 16-team conferences. B1G got their 16 teams. Big XII is on the clock to get their 3 remaining teams, preferably from the Pac-12. MWC will eventually merge with the Pac-12, and will use the Pac-12 network; leaving the MWC name to dissolve completely. It's just a matter of deciding which teams want to go to the Big XII, ACC, or remain in the Pac-12 conference.
Here are my 3 possible outcomes of the remaining teams:
Washington State - Big XII
Arizona - Big XII
Oregon - ACC
Washington - ACC
Utah - Pac-12
Arizona State - Pac-12
Stanford - Pac-12
Cal - Pac-12
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Utah - Big XII
Arizona - Big XII
Stanford - ACC
Oregon - ACC
Washington - Pac-12
Washington State - Pac-12
Cal - Pac-12
Arizona State - Pac-12
---------------------------------------------
Oregon - Big XII
Arizona - Big XII
Stanford - ACC
Washington - ACC
Utah - Pac-12
Washington State - Pac-12
Cal - Pac-12
Arizona State - Pac-12
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 28, 2023 7:04:28 GMT -8
Here is how I see things playing out at this point: Colorado - Big XII Oregon State - Big XII (Board of Trustees have scheduled a Special Meeting set for August 25th) Big XII(2 spots), ACC(2 spots), and MWC(4 spots) = 8 spots left to reach 16 teams. There will be Five Power 5 conferences made up of 16 teams for a total of 80 teams. SEC and B1G are already full, having their 16-team conferences. B1G got their 16 teams. Big XII is on the clock to get their 3 remaining teams, preferably from the Pac-12. MWC will eventually merge with the Pac-12, and will use the Pac-12 network; leaving the MWC name to dissolve completely. It's just a matter of deciding which teams want to go to the Big XII, ACC, or remain in the Pac-12 conference. Here are my 3 possible outcomes of the remaining teams: Washington State - Big XII Arizona - Big XII Oregon - ACC Washington - ACC Utah - Pac-12 Arizona State - Pac-12 Stanford - Pac-12 Cal - Pac-12 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Utah - Big XII Arizona - Big XII Stanford - ACC Oregon - ACC Washington - Pac-12 Washington State - Pac-12 Cal - Pac-12 Arizona State - Pac-12 --------------------------------------------- Oregon - Big XII Arizona - Big XII Stanford - ACC Washington - ACC Utah - Pac-12 Washington State - Pac-12 Cal - Pac-12 Arizona State - Pac-12 I can't see any teams going to the ACC. Their TV deal is not good and it's locked in for another 12 or so years. That's why Florida St. and Miami have been begging to join the SEC. |
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Post by bvrbred on Jul 28, 2023 7:16:43 GMT -8
Why would UW, Oregon, Cal, etc. prefer to remain in a Pac-12 bloated up with a bunch of MWC leftovers to playing in the Big 12? Why would the Big 12 prefer Oregon State over virtually anyone else in disintegrating Pac 12 apart from maybe WSU?
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Post by nebraskabeav on Jul 28, 2023 7:26:11 GMT -8
Here is how I see things playing out at this point: Colorado - Big XII Oregon State - Big XII (Board of Trustees have scheduled a Special Meeting set for August 25th) Big XII(2 spots), ACC(2 spots), and MWC(4 spots) = 8 spots left to reach 16 teams. There will be Five Power 5 conferences made up of 16 teams for a total of 80 teams. SEC and B1G are already full, having their 16-team conferences. B1G got their 16 teams. Big XII is on the clock to get their 3 remaining teams, preferably from the Pac-12. MWC will eventually merge with the Pac-12, and will use the Pac-12 network; leaving the MWC name to dissolve completely. It's just a matter of deciding which teams want to go to the Big XII, ACC, or remain in the Pac-12 conference. Here are my 3 possible outcomes of the remaining teams: Washington State - Big XII Arizona - Big XII Oregon - ACC Washington - ACC Utah - Pac-12 Arizona State - Pac-12 Stanford - Pac-12 Cal - Pac-12 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Utah - Big XII Arizona - Big XII Stanford - ACC Oregon - ACC Washington - Pac-12 Washington State - Pac-12 Cal - Pac-12 Arizona State - Pac-12 --------------------------------------------- Oregon - Big XII Arizona - Big XII Stanford - ACC Washington - ACC Utah - Pac-12 Washington State - Pac-12 Cal - Pac-12 Arizona State - Pac-12 I can't see any teams going to the ACC. Their TV deal is not good and it's locked in for another 12 or so years. That's why Florida St. and Miami have been begging to join the SEC. Oregon and Washington have been begging to get into the B1G and they are free agents. The media deal the ACC have has already been altered slightly with putting games on the CW network. Who's to say if and when Comcast purchases a large stake in ESPN or, maybe, buys ESPN outright to breach the ACC contract. Right now, Big XII is on the clock to grab 3 more Pac-12 teams. It seems they are taking their time deliberating all of their options and seeing who really wants to be in the Big XII for the long run and if they are a good fit.
Oregon State will have to add a men's track and field team if they are to move to the Big XII. Rowing is the only men's and women's sport the Big XII does not support in their conference. The Bylaws state there must be (6) men's sports and (8) women's sports and minimum each, and men's rowing is the 6th men's sport that is not on the list in the Big XII.
Makes sense why Oregon State invested in their track and field facility, Goss Stadium, Completing Reser, Medical Facility for Faculty and Students. Oregon State has been so tight-lipped and quiet about their plan of actions, and the staff doesn't appear to be worried.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 28, 2023 7:30:09 GMT -8
I can't see any teams going to the ACC. Their TV deal is not good and it's locked in for another 12 or so years. That's why Florida St. and Miami have been begging to join the SEC. Oregon and Washington have been begging to get into the B1G and they are free agents. The media deal the ACC have has already been altered slightly with putting games on the CW network. Who's to say if and when Comcast purchases a large stake in ESPN or, maybe, buys ESPN outright to breach the ACC contract. Right now, Big XII is on the clock to grab 3 more Pac-12 teams. It seems they are taking their time deliberating all of their options and seeing who really wants to be in the Big XII for the long run and if they are a good fit.
Oregon State will have to add a men's track and field team if they are to move to the Big XII. Rowing is the only men's and women's sport the Big XII does not support in their conference. The Bylaws state there must be (6) men's sports and (8) women's sports and minimum each, and men's rowing is the 6th men's sport that is not on the list in the Big XII.
Makes sense why Oregon State invested in their track and field facility, Goss Stadium, Completing Reser, Medical Facility for Faculty and Students. Oregon State has been so tight-lipped and quiet about their plan of actions, and the staff doesn't appear to be worried.
So, you're assuming that Disney is just willing to sell ESPN to Comcast?.....that's a big "If" As of now, the ACC deal is worse than the BIG 12's deal...I don't see any of our teams wanting to go there. |
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jul 28, 2023 7:42:23 GMT -8
The Pac 12...or what's left of it, needs vastly better leadership from within, not GK. That means telling Oregon and Washington get on board with the rest of us, or f%#* off and leave now. I knew when I read Oregon didn't want to expand it was self serving as all getgo. Screw them.
Then it should grab every legit program on the west coast and yeah...probably SMU and Tulane. So SDSU, UNLV, Fresneck, Boise Tech, AF or CSU. And Gonzaga for hoops.
Yes TV revenue will decrease initially. Yes there will likely be defections. But the plan needs to be solidify the west coast long term and create a bond with the remaining schools, earn a better TV contract in 5 or 6 years, so maybe if/when other conferences come calling there will be no incentive to leave.
And probably time to rebrand. The Pac name is a joke..what it represents today is not what it was 40 or 30 or even 20 years ago. This is now about survival and rebirth. It's long past due to think outside the box here instead of following the path to extinction.
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Post by nebraskabeav on Jul 28, 2023 7:46:00 GMT -8
Why would UW, Oregon, Cal, etc. prefer to remain in a Pac-12 bloated up with a bunch of MWC leftovers to playing in the Big 12? Why would the Big 12 prefer Oregon State over virtually anyone else in disintegrating Pac 12 apart from maybe WSU? Oregon is like Oklahoma and Texas. They have a brand and can survive off that brand and the Big XII doesn't want another team like Texas and Oklahoma telling the conference what to do. Oregon and Washington can stand to make more money in the Pac-12 by having a tiered payout with getting the majority of the TV revenue. They wouldn't be able to negotiate that in the Big XII. Also, remember, the B1G conference hasn't finalized their media deal. There was an issue with giving rights to the conference championship game they didn't have the right to negotiate away from FOX. Big XII has finalized their media deal and it's a short one.
Stanford is the university that is "happy to be here" and has a donor base large enough they could go independent and be fine, but they won't go independent. CAL wants to be tied to Stanford and the state legislators of California made that clear with the USC and UCLA debacle.
Arizona and Arizona State are wild cards. ASU has the Phoenix TV market, but Arizona has the basketball program. So I could see this going either way.
Utah wants to stay in the Pac-12. They were once in the MWC/WAC and they don't want to have to travel to the east coast for a conference game if they can help it. (I have a source who can confirm Utah is 100% all in with the Pac-12).
Washington State doesn't seem like a fit for the Big XII and definitely not the ACC.
On the flip side, splitting up the Washington, Oregon and Arizona schools, would allow diversity within the state much like Iowa and Iowa State, Oklahoma/Oklahoma State, Texas/TTech, TCU, aTm, etc, Colorado/Colorado State.
There are more thoughts I have, but I'll leave it at this....for now.
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