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Post by RenoBeaver on Feb 18, 2023 14:43:38 GMT -8
And thats the point, the academians are specifically the ones who are causing the most risk the Pac 12 going the way of the Big East. You think ESPN/whoever gives two f%#*s that OSU is the 148th ranked university? And I don't buy the SMU big market talking point. So is Azusa Pacific. Temple is in Philly. Boston College is in Boston. It's going to take a world of success for SMU to find any footing drawing viewers. ASU is in one of the biggest cities in the US and isnt competing with a TCU or UT or A&M for a college football fan base...they are an afterthought in Phoenix area. I'll make ya a bet if SMU joins the Pac 12, Boise State still draws more viewers. Don't get me wrong...I'm fine with SMU if the Pac 12 brings along another partner team in Texas or even Tulane. SMU as a stand alone entity? You think that excites Washington and Oregon, the ones you need to keep in line to hold the conference together? SMU does nothing for the Pac 12 IMO Good point like when the Big-10 expanded to include Maryland and Rutgers ... specifically Rutgers because "oh the NYC media market" nobody gives a f*** about college football in the NYC market and certainly not Rutgers football so that was a questionable decision to bring those teams into the conference just on that reason. IMO That was not about Rutgers so much as getting New York eyes on Ohio State, Michigan and the larger Big 10. Now the New York media has to cover it as one of their own. SMU will still be Page 5 sport headlines in Dallas when it joins the Pac 12.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 18, 2023 15:11:25 GMT -8
You gotta keep the academians happy when expanding the conference. BSU is ranked in the high 300s-mid 400s (so low they didn't get assigned a specific rank), OSU is ranked 151st, SMU is ranked 72nd. Metro area wise BSU is sitting on a metro area of a bit under 800K. SMU is sitting on a metro area of just under 8 million in one of the most football rabid states in the nation. Now academics and eyeballs aren't "everything", but the league is trying to replace USC & UCLA and SMU checks a lot of big boxes. As soon as SMU has a good season in an expanded PAC, it'll be a big deal. And thats the point, the academians are specifically the ones who are causing the most risk the Pac 12 going the way of the Big East. You think ESPN/whoever gives two f%#*s that OSU is the 148th ranked university? And I don't buy the SMU big market talking point. So is Azusa Pacific. Temple is in Philly. Boston College is in Boston. It's going to take a world of success for SMU to find any footing drawing viewers. ASU is in one of the biggest cities in the US and isnt competing with a TCU or UT or A&M for a college football fan base...they are an afterthought in Phoenix area. I'll make ya a bet if SMU joins the Pac 12, Boise State still draws more viewers. Don't get me wrong...I'm fine with SMU if the Pac 12 brings along another partner team in Texas or even Tulane. SMU as a stand alone entity? You think that excites Washington and Oregon, the ones you need to keep in line to hold the conference together? SMU does nothing for the Pac 12 IMO Here's the deal, if I was the advertising manager for "LardoBoy Potato Chips" and paying a million a year to advertise on Pac 12 games I'd look at our 10 teams and probably say we just lost almost half our eyeballs and I'd not be inclined to re-up for the 23-24 season. SanDiego helps because it gives LardoBoy exposure in SoCal. Boise helps a little but not much. Dallas opens up a completely new region with tons of eyeballs, heck, I'd be willing to pay as much or even more to re-up for next season. In an either/or situation Boise probably won't excite UW or SMU or the TV providers all that much. I'm betting SMU would probably turn the heads with the TV providers significantly more than BSU, and right now its not passing over BSU that's freaking out current league members - it's the potential for a low priced TV contract driving the fear. I've wanted the league to "ADD" BSU and UH off and on for years, but losing the 2 LA schools completely changes things. I believe this league is gonna die if it doesn't get to a minimum of 14, probably 16. Unless it pulls a rabbit out of the hat and snags Notre Dame and another equivalent school, 12 won't hack it, Kliavkoff knew it a year or two back (before USC torpedoed expansion) and I suspect he still knows it now. If SMU happens I bet there's a minimum of 1 more central time zone team in the works. If they can get to 13/14 and a nice portfolio of larger market schools (1-3 out of Rice/Tulane/UTSA in addition to SMU is my guess) it would be time to look at adding BSU and UNLV/Fresno to get to 16.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Feb 18, 2023 15:48:32 GMT -8
And thats the point, the academians are specifically the ones who are causing the most risk the Pac 12 going the way of the Big East. You think ESPN/whoever gives two f%#*s that OSU is the 148th ranked university? And I don't buy the SMU big market talking point. So is Azusa Pacific. Temple is in Philly. Boston College is in Boston. It's going to take a world of success for SMU to find any footing drawing viewers. ASU is in one of the biggest cities in the US and isnt competing with a TCU or UT or A&M for a college football fan base...they are an afterthought in Phoenix area. I'll make ya a bet if SMU joins the Pac 12, Boise State still draws more viewers. Don't get me wrong...I'm fine with SMU if the Pac 12 brings along another partner team in Texas or even Tulane. SMU as a stand alone entity? You think that excites Washington and Oregon, the ones you need to keep in line to hold the conference together? SMU does nothing for the Pac 12 IMO Here's the deal, if I was the advertising manager for "LardoBoy Potato Chips" and paying a million a year to advertise on Pac 12 games I'd look at our 10 teams and probably say we just lost almost half our eyeballs and I'd not be inclined to re-up for the 23-24 season. SanDiego helps because it gives LardoBoy exposure in SoCal. Boise helps a little but not much. Dallas opens up a completely new region with tons of eyeballs, heck, I'd be willing to pay as much or even more to re-up for next season. In an either/or situation Boise probably won't excite UW or SMU or the TV providers all that much. I'm betting SMU would probably turn the heads with the TV providers significantly more than BSU, and right now its not passing over BSU that's freaking out current league members - it's the potential for a low priced TV contract driving the fear. I've wanted the league to "ADD" BSU and UH off and on for years, but losing the 2 LA schools completely changes things. I believe this league is gonna die if it doesn't get to a minimum of 14, probably 16. Unless it pulls a rabbit out of the hat and snags Notre Dame and another equivalent school, 12 won't hack it, Kliavkoff knew it a year or two back (before USC torpedoed expansion) and I suspect he still knows it now. If SMU happens I bet there's a minimum of 1 more central time zone team in the works. If they can get to 13/14 and a nice portfolio of larger market schools (1-3 out of Rice/Tulane/UTSA in addition to SMU is my guess) it would be time to look at adding BSU and UNLV/Fresno to get to 16. Good post. I hope you are right. What are your thoughts if it is just SDSU and SMU? And I know it's a hypothetical at this point...but what about the Big 12 taking Fresno State and say UNLV,with Ganzaga for hoops only?
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Post by wetrodentia on Feb 18, 2023 17:04:52 GMT -8
And thats the point, the academians are specifically the ones who are causing the most risk the Pac 12 going the way of the Big East. You think ESPN/whoever gives two f%#*s that OSU is the 148th ranked university? And I don't buy the SMU big market talking point. So is Azusa Pacific. Temple is in Philly. Boston College is in Boston. It's going to take a world of success for SMU to find any footing drawing viewers. ASU is in one of the biggest cities in the US and isnt competing with a TCU or UT or A&M for a college football fan base...they are an afterthought in Phoenix area. I'll make ya a bet if SMU joins the Pac 12, Boise State still draws more viewers. Don't get me wrong...I'm fine with SMU if the Pac 12 brings along another partner team in Texas or even Tulane. SMU as a stand alone entity? You think that excites Washington and Oregon, the ones you need to keep in line to hold the conference together? SMU does nothing for the Pac 12 IMO Here's the deal, if I was the advertising manager for "LardoBoy Potato Chips" and paying a million a year to advertise on Pac 12 games I'd look at our 10 teams and probably say we just lost almost half our eyeballs and I'd not be inclined to re-up for the 23-24 season. SanDiego helps because it gives LardoBoy exposure in SoCal. Boise helps a little but not much. Dallas opens up a completely new region with tons of eyeballs, heck, I'd be willing to pay as much or even more to re-up for next season. In an either/or situation Boise probably won't excite UW or SMU or the TV providers all that much. I'm betting SMU would probably turn the heads with the TV providers significantly more than BSU, and right now its not passing over BSU that's freaking out current league members - it's the potential for a low priced TV contract driving the fear. I've wanted the league to "ADD" BSU and UH off and on for years, but losing the 2 LA schools completely changes things. I believe this league is gonna die if it doesn't get to a minimum of 14, probably 16. Unless it pulls a rabbit out of the hat and snags Notre Dame and another equivalent school, 12 won't hack it, Kliavkoff knew it a year or two back (before USC torpedoed expansion) and I suspect he still knows it now. If SMU happens I bet there's a minimum of 1 more central time zone team in the works. If they can get to 13/14 and a nice portfolio of larger market schools (1-3 out of Rice/Tulane/UTSA in addition to SMU is my guess) it would be time to look at adding BSU and UNLV/Fresno to get to 16. My excitement to add SMU is muted because adding them doesn’t convince me it opens up the Dallas market “with tons of eyeballs.” Is SMU sports must-see TV in that market? I’m sure joining the PAC would spur interest but I’m skeptical. It’s not just the market of course. As others have mentioned the question remains how much interest does the school capture in that market. Boise State may command more viewers in Idaho than SMU does in Texas. I’m too lazy to do the research but that’s what’s being considered along with the potential future growth of viewership.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 18, 2023 18:39:20 GMT -8
Here's the deal, if I was the advertising manager for "LardoBoy Potato Chips" and paying a million a year to advertise on Pac 12 games I'd look at our 10 teams and probably say we just lost almost half our eyeballs and I'd not be inclined to re-up for the 23-24 season. SanDiego helps because it gives LardoBoy exposure in SoCal. Boise helps a little but not much. Dallas opens up a completely new region with tons of eyeballs, heck, I'd be willing to pay as much or even more to re-up for next season. In an either/or situation Boise probably won't excite UW or SMU or the TV providers all that much. I'm betting SMU would probably turn the heads with the TV providers significantly more than BSU, and right now its not passing over BSU that's freaking out current league members - it's the potential for a low priced TV contract driving the fear. I've wanted the league to "ADD" BSU and UH off and on for years, but losing the 2 LA schools completely changes things. I believe this league is gonna die if it doesn't get to a minimum of 14, probably 16. Unless it pulls a rabbit out of the hat and snags Notre Dame and another equivalent school, 12 won't hack it, Kliavkoff knew it a year or two back (before USC torpedoed expansion) and I suspect he still knows it now. If SMU happens I bet there's a minimum of 1 more central time zone team in the works. If they can get to 13/14 and a nice portfolio of larger market schools (1-3 out of Rice/Tulane/UTSA in addition to SMU is my guess) it would be time to look at adding BSU and UNLV/Fresno to get to 16. Good post. I hope you are right. What are your thoughts if it is just SDSU and SMU? And I know it's a hypothetical at this point...but what about the Big 12 taking Fresno State and say UNLV,with Ganzaga for hoops only? With just SDSU & SMU without additional teams I think the league will fail. It'll fail sooner with just SDSU & BSU in my opinion. Getting just 2 will have at least 4-6 schools probably on the fence about sticking with the Pac 12. "IF" they follow up the announcement of the first 2 with obvious attempts to continue expanding I think most schools will calm down until about this time next year. If they could get to 16 I think everyone will be happy unless there's a lot of $$ thrown at them to defect. I like Fresno St/UNLV/UNR/BSU/Utah State/CSU if going with a Western US centric model, but I think dipping into Big 10 territory makes a bolder statement and more TV money, probably an improved recruiting presence as well. The Big 12 already grabbed 4 power 5 schools and ESPN supposedly told them the league won't get an additional dime for any additional power 5 schools after this, any more power 5 additions are out of the league's pocket. I don't know if this is true or not. If it is, FSU and UNLV aren't happening for now. Gonzaga already gets more than an equal share of their Tournament money after the first round. Is ANY other league willing to give them more than an equal share? They better have big TV basketball money to make it worthwhile for Gonzaga to leave its rather comfy position without diluting it's (the league's) own position.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 18, 2023 19:06:31 GMT -8
Good point like when the Big-10 expanded to include Maryland and Rutgers ... specifically Rutgers because "oh the NYC media market" nobody gives a f*** about college football in the NYC market and certainly not Rutgers football so that was a questionable decision to bring those teams into the conference just on that reason. IMO That was not about Rutgers so much as getting New York eyes on Ohio State, Michigan and the larger Big 10. Now the New York media has to cover it as one of their own. SMU will still be Page 5 sport headlines in Dallas when it joins the Pac 12. Rutgers doesn't even merit Page 5 in the NYC media market. It's an absolute nobody miles behind the Mets, Yankees, Knicks, Nets, Rangers, Islanders, Giants and Jets.
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Post by ag87 on Feb 19, 2023 4:40:34 GMT -8
I read something not too long ago that there are more college football fans in Birmingham (Alabama, not England) than in NYC.
Regarding SMU and Boise, I believe Boise is basically topped out in interest. It's even probable that there is less enthusiasm for them now in their own metropolitan area than 10 years ago. Today there is not likely more interest in SMU than Boise but there is a huge upside in the DFW metroplex.
Agree that 12 is only a bandaid and the PAC likely needs to go bigger. I'm curious why Tulane left the SEC 40 years ago. Are they content being a G5 big dog? They have not even been that until this year. I'm hopeful for SDSU, SMU, UNLV, and either Tulane or UTSA. I like the idea of Gonzaga for everything except football. Maybe beating a dead horse but maybe another LA school for all sports except football? (let's go Dirtbags)
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Post by ag87 on Feb 21, 2023 6:35:06 GMT -8
I don't know anything about outkick.com but I saw this on my phone. www.outkick.com/san-diego-state-joining-pac-12-report/ It says that over the weekend the SDSU AD John Wicker told people at a banquet that San Diego State is joining the Pac-12 and there will be an announcement soon. I don't know what this means regarding does a media deal get done first or does the PAC get a finite number of members.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 21, 2023 12:44:03 GMT -8
I don't know anything about outkick.com but I saw this on my phone. www.outkick.com/san-diego-state-joining-pac-12-report/ It says that over the weekend the SDSU AD John Wicker told people at a banquet that San Diego State is joining the Pac-12 and there will be an announcement soon. I don't know what this means regarding does a media deal get done first or does the PAC get a finite number of members. I think SDSU will be the first of several (more than just 2) to fall into place over the coming months.
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Post by orangeattack on Feb 21, 2023 14:24:15 GMT -8
I read something not too long ago that there are more college football fans in Birmingham (Alabama, not England) than in NYC. Regarding SMU and Boise, I believe Boise is basically topped out in interest. It's even probable that there is less enthusiasm for them now in their own metropolitan area than 10 years ago. Today there is not likely more interest in SMU than Boise but there is a huge upside in the DFW metroplex. Agree that 12 is only a bandaid and the PAC likely needs to go bigger. I'm curious why Tulane left the SEC 40 years ago. Are they content being a G5 big dog? They have not even been that until this year. I'm hopeful for SDSU, SMU, UNLV, and either Tulane or UTSA. I like the idea of Gonzaga for everything except football. Maybe beating a dead horse but maybe another LA school for all sports except football? (let's go Dirtbags) The thing that is generally missing from this conversation is a discussion about that means of a university to support athletics in the Pac-12. We can argue until the cows come home about "eyeballs" and "tv market" but let's take a look at the thing that truly matters: Money. I'm not saying that the Pac 12 needs to find a Texas or an Oklahoma, but adding a school with fewer resources to compete than the current members is not tenable. It has to be an option where the school has the budget to compete in ALL conference sports - not just basketball or basketball.
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elwood
Freshman
Posts: 212
Grad Year: 1994
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Post by elwood on Feb 21, 2023 18:04:14 GMT -8
I read something not too long ago that there are more college football fans in Birmingham (Alabama, not England) than in NYC. Regarding SMU and Boise, I believe Boise is basically topped out in interest. It's even probable that there is less enthusiasm for them now in their own metropolitan area than 10 years ago. Today there is not likely more interest in SMU than Boise but there is a huge upside in the DFW metroplex. Agree that 12 is only a bandaid and the PAC likely needs to go bigger. I'm curious why Tulane left the SEC 40 years ago. Are they content being a G5 big dog? They have not even been that until this year. I'm hopeful for SDSU, SMU, UNLV, and either Tulane or UTSA. I like the idea of Gonzaga for everything except football. Maybe beating a dead horse but maybe another LA school for all sports except football? (let's go Dirtbags) The thing that is generally missing from this conversation is a discussion about that means of a university to support athletics in the Pac-12. We can argue until the cows come home about "eyeballs" and "tv market" but let's take a look at the thing that truly matters: Money. I'm not saying that the Pac 12 needs to find a Texas or an Oklahoma, but adding a school with fewer resources to compete than the current members is not tenable. It has to be an option where the school has the budget to compete in ALL conference sports - not just basketball or basketball. Most PAC-12 schools don’t play in all sports. Most PAC-12 teams (including Oregon State) can’t afford sports and run a deficit already.
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Post by orangeattack on Feb 22, 2023 9:51:31 GMT -8
The thing that is generally missing from this conversation is a discussion about that means of a university to support athletics in the Pac-12. We can argue until the cows come home about "eyeballs" and "tv market" but let's take a look at the thing that truly matters: Money. I'm not saying that the Pac 12 needs to find a Texas or an Oklahoma, but adding a school with fewer resources to compete than the current members is not tenable. It has to be an option where the school has the budget to compete in ALL conference sports - not just basketball or basketball. Most PAC-12 schools don’t play in all sports. Most PAC-12 teams (including Oregon State) can’t afford sports and run a deficit already. I saw a recent article showing that every single D1 program except about 12 run at a deficit. This is not unique to Oregon State. But when adding members to a conference, it's important to have somewhat equitable investment into the athletic department across all sports, not just the ability to compete in one of them (ie Gonzaga and Boise State)
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Post by obf on Feb 22, 2023 11:33:08 GMT -8
Teams I would add (or reach out to ) if I was Georgie:
- San Diego - Southern Methodist - Fresno State - UNLV - University of Houston - Tulane
Yes I try to add six more teams. SDSU, UNLV and Fresno bolster the Pacs standing as the main conference in the west and gets us more footing in Calif. and gets us into LV. The three Texas schools gets us into the Texas market for both eyeballs and recruiting. Texas is GROWING, not shrinking like Calif and there is no such thing as too much football in Texas. Sure, SMU, Houston and Tulane aren't A$M, UT and TCU, but there are still going to be more Texans interested in those games, especially with them moving to a Power 5 conference, then there will be Oregonians interested in OSU OR uofho games. That's not a bash on OSU or Oregonians, that is just how the cultures are.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 22, 2023 11:36:14 GMT -8
Teams I would add (or reach out to ) if I was Georgie: - San Diego - Southern Methodist - Fresno State - UNLV - University of Houston - Tulane Yes I try to add six more teams. SDSU, UNLV and Fresno bolster the Pacs standing as the main conference in the west and gets us more footing in Calif. and gets us into LV. The three Texas schools gets us into the Texas market for both eyeballs and recruiting. Texas is GROWING, not shrinking like Calif and there is no such thing as too much football in Texas. Sure, SMU, Houston and Tulane aren't A$M, UT and TCU, but there are still going to be more Texans interested in those games, especially with them moving to a Power 5 conference, then there will be Oregonians interested in OSU OR uofho games. That's not a bash on OSU or Oregonians, that is just how the cultures are. 3 Texas schools? Tulane is in Louisiana. Houston is already committed to the Big12. Highly doubt that Cal and Stanford agree to let Fresneck and UNLV in due to academics.
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Post by bennyskid on Feb 22, 2023 13:25:27 GMT -8
Highly doubt that Cal and Stanford agree to let Fresneck and UNLV in due to academics. I think the academics train has left the station. SDSU and SMU are hardly academic powerhouses.
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