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Post by kersting13 on Feb 17, 2023 9:23:01 GMT -8
Ohio State just canceled their home and home with Washington because the did not want to play the Huskies in the same year that the played USC and UCLA. Apparently it would create to tough a schedule. Too much travel was what I heard.... think about that for a minute UCLA & USC - the junior OSU doesn't want to travel West more than twice. But I'm sure it was also they were scared of being beaten by Washington. I mean, how could they continue to beat their chest at every moment if they played a real OOC schedule w/ games like UW? Too much travel... God forbid they'd have to play FIVE road games. FIVE!!!! Honestly, I think you should be ineligible for bowl games if you play an 8 home/4 road schedule.
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Post by seastape on Feb 17, 2023 9:56:01 GMT -8
Dire apparently. I have to imagine that the Pac-12 goes to at least 14, if SMU gets an invite. I sure hope you are right. Other than selling the Dallas angle...where SMU is a complete afterthought, I'm starting to really dislike this rumor. It's so desperate and it's so Pac 12. Fine if we take another Texas school. But that won't happen. I hate Boise State but they bring more to the table as a college football program than SMU. If it's just SDSU and SMU...huge fail...again. Should have just stuck with 4 west coast teams and yeah...that's Boise State and Fresno State, because at least they are somewhat relevant nationally. Agreed, especially with your last paragraph. The Pac 12 should just lock up the best bits of the west, even if it nudges the payout per team down a little. Canzano is reporting that the Big 12 is having talks with Fresno State. How is it that a team is good enough for the looking-secure Big 12 but not good enough for the feeling-like-it's-going-to-dissolve Pac 12? I know...academics. The time has come to look beyond that. It would be a dumb decision to bar schools to prove how smart you are. I think the Pac should be THE conference of the west and lock up all of the athletically relevant western schools, which includes SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, and Boise State. Add Gonzaga for all sports but football. We lost the LA market; let's grab all the rest out here. Do you want to see Kansas travelling to Gonzaga rather than Arizona heading up there? That is a real possibility 'cause the Big 12 has talked with Gonzaga, as well. Instead of Arizona State, do you want to see Oklahoma State going to Fresno? And on and on. How stupid would that make the Pac look, to ignore the schools in their own backyard while the Big 12 swoops in and takes them? The Big 12 already jumped ahead of the Pac in a media rights deal and their commissioner has said that he wants to lock up all four time zones. Should the Pac let the Big 12 finish the fait accompli? Penny wise and pound foolish. The only issue should be whether it's called the Pac 14 or 15 or some other name. It may not be an option, anyway. It could be that some Pac schools, especially the Arizona schools, may be looking at the instability of the Pac and may choose, if the option is available, to head to the Big 12 anyway. The Pac could do nothing about it if they choose that option and we are sunk anyway. Hopefully not.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 17, 2023 10:39:19 GMT -8
My hopes are that we're not hearing about Fresno State and UNLV as likely possibilities because there are other schools in the central time zone Kliavkoff is negotiating with.
Reports are that Kliavkoff was wanting to expand the league as soon as the Texas/Oklahoma deal was announced and USC torpedoed it (while secretly negotiating their own deal with the Big 10). I find it very difficult to believe that a guy proactively trying to expand the league back then has a goal of getting to a weakened 12 team league and then stopping.
The Mountain West schools would probably jump at a chance to get on board with the Pac at a reduced rate, their current TV deal is for 4 million a year per school for another 3-4 years. I find it hard to believe there aren't other schools in the works.
The big problem right now is ESPN has been bleeding money lately and Disney is making cutbacks. That (and the exodus of the LA schools) really destroys the bargaining leverage the league had when Kliavkoff first wanted to expand.
My bet is there are 2-4 unknown schools saying if the Pac 12 can promise Big 12 ballpark money they're in, and there's probably TV carriers saying they can pay in that ballpark IF the teams are locked in, and nobody's taking the leap of faith that everyone's in.
As far as Gonzaga goes, Gonzaga negotiated themselves a better deal the last time they looked at other leagues and gets significantly more than an even share of tournament money if they advance past the first round. Whoever they negotiate with is going to need to show the equal share of a bigger pie is greater than the larger share of a smaller pie Gonzaga already gets. It's not a lock that Gonzaga goes anywhere.
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Post by qbeaver on Feb 17, 2023 11:11:13 GMT -8
SMU has spent 500 million over the last 10 years on facilities and SDS 350 million on their new stadium. Utah came into the PAC-10 and has thrived in football and basketball. I know Utah was good coming in. The market is the important thing to the PAC-10. Dallas is the 5th biggest market in the country. Southern California is huge to the conference. San Diego is a much better choice than Fresno imo...especially for road trips.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Feb 17, 2023 11:15:25 GMT -8
I sure hope you are right. Other than selling the Dallas angle...where SMU is a complete afterthought, I'm starting to really dislike this rumor. It's so desperate and it's so Pac 12. Fine if we take another Texas school. But that won't happen. I hate Boise State but they bring more to the table as a college football program than SMU. If it's just SDSU and SMU...huge fail...again. Should have just stuck with 4 west coast teams and yeah...that's Boise State and Fresno State, because at least they are somewhat relevant nationally. SMU has very wealthy boosters, much more so than Boise St. If they move to a P5 conference, the thinking is that they could elevate their program rapidly. The PAC 12 is not going to bring in Boise St as it doesn’t fit their academic profile. Fair or not. I hope you are right. But if they haven't invested in the program by now...particularly when they had the opportunity to when the Big 12 was on the ropes and SMU and TCU historically have been big rivals...I'm not sure conference games against OSU, WSU, and Cal are gonna empty many deep pockets.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Feb 17, 2023 11:18:46 GMT -8
I sure hope you are right. Other than selling the Dallas angle...where SMU is a complete afterthought, I'm starting to really dislike this rumor. It's so desperate and it's so Pac 12. Fine if we take another Texas school. But that won't happen. I hate Boise State but they bring more to the table as a college football program than SMU. If it's just SDSU and SMU...huge fail...again. Should have just stuck with 4 west coast teams and yeah...that's Boise State and Fresno State, because at least they are somewhat relevant nationally. Agreed, especially with your last paragraph. The Pac 12 should just lock up the best bits of the west, even if it nudges the payout per team down a little. Canzano is reporting that the Big 12 is having talks with Fresno State. How is it that a team is good enough for the looking-secure Big 12 but not good enough for the feeling-like-it's-going-to-dissolve Pac 12? I know...academics. The time has come to look beyond that. It would be a dumb decision to bar schools to prove how smart you are. I think the Pac should be THE conference of the west and lock up all of the athletically relevant western schools, which includes SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, and Boise State. Add Gonzaga for all sports but football. We lost the LA market; let's grab all the rest out here. Do you want to see Kansas travelling to Gonzaga rather than Arizona heading up there? That is a real possibility 'cause the Big 12 has talked with Gonzaga, as well. Instead of Arizona State, do you want to see Oklahoma State going to Fresno? And on and on. How stupid would that make the Pac look, to ignore the schools in their own backyard while the Big 12 swoops in and takes them? The Big 12 already jumped ahead of the Pac in a media rights deal and their commissioner has said that he wants to lock up all four time zones. Should the Pac let the Big 12 finish the fait accompli? Penny wise and pound foolish. The only issue should be whether it's called the Pac 14 or 15 or some other name. It may not be an option, anyway. It could be that some Pac schools, especially the Arizona schools, may be looking at the instability of the Pac and may choose, if the option is available, to head to the Big 12 anyway. The Pac could do nothing about it if they choose that option and we are sunk anyway. Hopefully not. I'll die laughing.. or dent my forehead permenantly...when the Big 12 add Boise State, Fresno State, UNLV, and Ganzaga fir hoops.
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Post by 93beav on Feb 17, 2023 21:19:11 GMT -8
Agreed, especially with your last paragraph. The Pac 12 should just lock up the best bits of the west, even if it nudges the payout per team down a little. Canzano is reporting that the Big 12 is having talks with Fresno State. How is it that a team is good enough for the looking-secure Big 12 but not good enough for the feeling-like-it's-going-to-dissolve Pac 12? I know...academics. The time has come to look beyond that. It would be a dumb decision to bar schools to prove how smart you are. I think the Pac should be THE conference of the west and lock up all of the athletically relevant western schools, which includes SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, and Boise State. Add Gonzaga for all sports but football. We lost the LA market; let's grab all the rest out here. Do you want to see Kansas travelling to Gonzaga rather than Arizona heading up there? That is a real possibility 'cause the Big 12 has talked with Gonzaga, as well. Instead of Arizona State, do you want to see Oklahoma State going to Fresno? And on and on. How stupid would that make the Pac look, to ignore the schools in their own backyard while the Big 12 swoops in and takes them? The Big 12 already jumped ahead of the Pac in a media rights deal and their commissioner has said that he wants to lock up all four time zones. Should the Pac let the Big 12 finish the fait accompli? Penny wise and pound foolish. The only issue should be whether it's called the Pac 14 or 15 or some other name. It may not be an option, anyway. It could be that some Pac schools, especially the Arizona schools, may be looking at the instability of the Pac and may choose, if the option is available, to head to the Big 12 anyway. The Pac could do nothing about it if they choose that option and we are sunk anyway. Hopefully not. I'll die laughing.. or dent my forehead permenantly...when the Big 12 add Boise State, Fresno State, UNLV, and Ganzaga fir hoops. I would be really surprised if no one adds Gonzaga in the next 2-3 years just for hoops. You hear the Big12 commissioner talk about how much hoops is undervalued by TV media deals - that's because they own basketball right now. And they'd welcome Gonzaga gladly if it meant higher media deals. It wouldn't be horrible for the PAC-12 to add Gonzaga just for hoops, because we'd get a slice of the NCAA Tourney money (although I suspect in the new deal, 50% will go to Gonzaga and the other 50% split, vs the original 100% split amongst everyone)
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Post by seastape on Feb 17, 2023 23:11:10 GMT -8
Agreed, especially with your last paragraph. The Pac 12 should just lock up the best bits of the west, even if it nudges the payout per team down a little. Canzano is reporting that the Big 12 is having talks with Fresno State. How is it that a team is good enough for the looking-secure Big 12 but not good enough for the feeling-like-it's-going-to-dissolve Pac 12? I know...academics. The time has come to look beyond that. It would be a dumb decision to bar schools to prove how smart you are. I think the Pac should be THE conference of the west and lock up all of the athletically relevant western schools, which includes SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, and Boise State. Add Gonzaga for all sports but football. We lost the LA market; let's grab all the rest out here. Do you want to see Kansas travelling to Gonzaga rather than Arizona heading up there? That is a real possibility 'cause the Big 12 has talked with Gonzaga, as well. Instead of Arizona State, do you want to see Oklahoma State going to Fresno? And on and on. How stupid would that make the Pac look, to ignore the schools in their own backyard while the Big 12 swoops in and takes them? The Big 12 already jumped ahead of the Pac in a media rights deal and their commissioner has said that he wants to lock up all four time zones. Should the Pac let the Big 12 finish the fait accompli? Penny wise and pound foolish. The only issue should be whether it's called the Pac 14 or 15 or some other name. It may not be an option, anyway. It could be that some Pac schools, especially the Arizona schools, may be looking at the instability of the Pac and may choose, if the option is available, to head to the Big 12 anyway. The Pac could do nothing about it if they choose that option and we are sunk anyway. Hopefully not. I'll die laughing.. or dent my forehead permenantly...when the Big 12 add Boise State, Fresno State, UNLV, and Ganzaga fir hoops. I find it unlikely as well. I find that the Big 12 right now has the power to hold out and see if the four corner schools are coming their way and if not the four corner schools then maybe, on the outside, some eastern schools especially if the ACC shows signs of dying (which I find unlikely, given their high exit fees and long term GOR deal). But...Fresno-Visalia is in the low-50s for media market size, bigger than Spokane, Pullman or eastern Washington and western Idaho in general, bigger than any market in Oregon besides Portland, bigger than Tuscon, Waco-Temple-Bryan, Des Moines-Ames, Lawrence, Manhattan, Stillwater, Lubbock, and Morgantown. That's at least three schools in the Pac 12, including our own, and seven schools in the Big 12 which have smaller media markets than Fresno State. And Vegas is bigger than that. Obviously, San Diego is preferable over either. Between those three schools, those are fine (not great) media markets for the Pac to harvest. Yes, bigger markets are better, but the Pac isn't getting bigger ones. Not any time soon. Get those three and it's the Pac 13. I know Boise St. isn't a big school or a big market, but they have carved out a small national exposure. They are also a good program and have been for quite a while now. I'd bring 'em in. I' m not sold on the Texas schools. SMU, Rice, UTSA...Texan afterthoughts. Quick question: what is the combined share of the Portland media market between PSU and UP? I feel like the best we can get out of Texas are the PSU's and UP's from that state. How much do they really move the needle? I'd rather stay western.
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Post by skyrider on Feb 18, 2023 8:11:25 GMT -8
I find it unlikely as well. I find that the Big 12 right now has the power to hold out and see if the four corner schools are coming their way and if not the four corner schools then maybe, on the outside, some eastern schools especially if the ACC shows signs of dying (which I find unlikely, given their high exit fees and long term GOR deal). But...Fresno-Visalia is in the low-50s for media market size, bigger than Spokane, Pullman or eastern Washington and western Idaho in general, bigger than any market in Oregon besides Portland, bigger than Tuscon, Waco-Temple-Bryan, Des Moines-Ames, Lawrence, Manhattan, Stillwater, Lubbock, and Morgantown. That's at least three schools in the Pac 12, including our own, and seven schools in the Big 12 which have smaller media markets than Fresno State. And Vegas is bigger than that. Obviously, San Diego is preferable over either. Between those three schools, those are fine (not great) media markets for the Pac to harvest. Yes, bigger markets are better, but the Pac isn't getting bigger ones. Not any time soon. Get those three and it's the Pac 13. I know Boise St. isn't a big school or a big market, but they have carved out a small national exposure. They are also a good program and have been for quite a while now. I'd bring 'em in. Outstanding observations and analysis! You should be the PAC12 Boss. However, you have way too much common sense and ability for them to ever hire you!
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 18, 2023 8:31:55 GMT -8
I'll die laughing.. or dent my forehead permenantly...when the Big 12 add Boise State, Fresno State, UNLV, and Ganzaga fir hoops. I find it unlikely as well. I find that the Big 12 right now has the power to hold out and see if the four corner schools are coming their way and if not the four corner schools then maybe, on the outside, some eastern schools especially if the ACC shows signs of dying (which I find unlikely, given their high exit fees and long term GOR deal). But...Fresno-Visalia is in the low-50s for media market size, bigger than Spokane, Pullman or eastern Washington and western Idaho in general, bigger than any market in Oregon besides Portland, bigger than Tuscon, Waco-Temple-Bryan, Des Moines-Ames, Lawrence, Manhattan, Stillwater, Lubbock, and Morgantown. That's at least three schools in the Pac 12, including our own, and seven schools in the Big 12 which have smaller media markets than Fresno State. And Vegas is bigger than that. Obviously, San Diego is preferable over either. Between those three schools, those are fine (not great) media markets for the Pac to harvest. Yes, bigger markets are better, but the Pac isn't getting bigger ones. Not any time soon. Get those three and it's the Pac 13. I know Boise St. isn't a big school or a big market, but they have carved out a small national exposure. They are also a good program and have been for quite a while now. I'd bring 'em in. I' m not sold on the Texas schools. SMU, Rice, UTSA...Texan afterthoughts. Quick question: what is the combined share of the Portland media market between PSU and UP? I feel like the best we can get out of Texas are the PSU's and UP's from that state. How much do they really move the needle? I'd rather stay western. Maybe it’s just my contempt for Boise State but I think including them is still a bad idea. The only good reason you gave for inclusion is that they’ve got small national exposure. While I agree that’s true, I think that would quickly go away as they fell into mediocrity playing a full PAC X schedule. They already are only a shell of those great Chris Petersen teams. Playing a tough opponent every week would rapidly take its toll on the Cinderella Donks. Just my opinion.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Feb 18, 2023 10:34:24 GMT -8
I find it unlikely as well. I find that the Big 12 right now has the power to hold out and see if the four corner schools are coming their way and if not the four corner schools then maybe, on the outside, some eastern schools especially if the ACC shows signs of dying (which I find unlikely, given their high exit fees and long term GOR deal). But...Fresno-Visalia is in the low-50s for media market size, bigger than Spokane, Pullman or eastern Washington and western Idaho in general, bigger than any market in Oregon besides Portland, bigger than Tuscon, Waco-Temple-Bryan, Des Moines-Ames, Lawrence, Manhattan, Stillwater, Lubbock, and Morgantown. That's at least three schools in the Pac 12, including our own, and seven schools in the Big 12 which have smaller media markets than Fresno State. And Vegas is bigger than that. Obviously, San Diego is preferable over either. Between those three schools, those are fine (not great) media markets for the Pac to harvest. Yes, bigger markets are better, but the Pac isn't getting bigger ones. Not any time soon. Get those three and it's the Pac 13. I know Boise St. isn't a big school or a big market, but they have carved out a small national exposure. They are also a good program and have been for quite a while now. I'd bring 'em in. I' m not sold on the Texas schools. SMU, Rice, UTSA...Texan afterthoughts. Quick question: what is the combined share of the Portland media market between PSU and UP? I feel like the best we can get out of Texas are the PSU's and UP's from that state. How much do they really move the needle? I'd rather stay western. Maybe it’s just my contempt for Boise State but I think including them is still a bad idea. The only good reason you gave for inclusion is that they’ve got small national exposure. While I agree that’s true, I think that would quickly go away as they fell into mediocrity playing a full PAC X schedule. They already are only a shell of those great Chris Petersen teams. Playing a tough opponent every week would rapidly take its toll on the Cinderella Donks. Just my opinion. I think any mid major may face that risk. But schools like TCU and Utah and even BYU have proven they can make the jump. Will be interesting to see how the Big 12 4 fare. I hate Boise State too with a passion. But I recognize there is potential there. When a school is as invested in their program as BSU...and going to Pac 12 significantly increases that investment...you are bound for success. I know others see that for SMU but SMU IMO isn't even a top 20 G5 school...certainly not at Boise State or even Fresno States level. If SMU had so much potential...they would have already had the booster support and probably a Big 12 invite. I don't see bringing them to the Pac 12 does muxh of anything for their alumni. It's a private school with less than 12000 enrolled, and their deep pocket alumni have done little to boost the program.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 18, 2023 13:13:00 GMT -8
You gotta keep the academians happy when expanding the conference. BSU is ranked in the high 300s-mid 400s (so low they didn't get assigned a specific rank), OSU is ranked 151st, SMU is ranked 72nd.
Metro area wise BSU is sitting on a metro area of a bit under 800K. SMU is sitting on a metro area of just under 8 million in one of the most football rabid states in the nation.
Now academics and eyeballs aren't "everything", but the league is trying to replace USC & UCLA and SMU checks a lot of big boxes. As soon as SMU has a good season in an expanded PAC, it'll be a big deal.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 18, 2023 13:36:47 GMT -8
You gotta keep the academians happy when expanding the conference. BSU is ranked in the high 300s-mid 400s (so low they didn't get assigned a specific rank), OSU is ranked 151st, SMU is ranked 72nd. Metro area wise BSU is sitting on a metro area of a bit under 800K. SMU is sitting on a metro area of just under 8 million in one of the most football rabid states in the nation. Now academics and eyeballs aren't "everything", but the league is trying to replace USC & UCLA and SMU checks a lot of big boxes. As soon as SMU has a good season in an expanded PAC, it'll be a big deal. SMU is in no way comparable to any of the Pac-12 universities in any serious academic ranking and is also not comparable to San Diego State either. Still, Boise State is further behind SMU in academics than SMU is behind San Diego State.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Feb 18, 2023 13:47:22 GMT -8
You gotta keep the academians happy when expanding the conference. BSU is ranked in the high 300s-mid 400s (so low they didn't get assigned a specific rank), OSU is ranked 151st, SMU is ranked 72nd. Metro area wise BSU is sitting on a metro area of a bit under 800K. SMU is sitting on a metro area of just under 8 million in one of the most football rabid states in the nation. Now academics and eyeballs aren't "everything", but the league is trying to replace USC & UCLA and SMU checks a lot of big boxes. As soon as SMU has a good season in an expanded PAC, it'll be a big deal. And thats the point, the academians are specifically the ones who are causing the most risk the Pac 12 going the way of the Big East. You think ESPN/whoever gives two f%#*s that OSU is the 148th ranked university? And I don't buy the SMU big market talking point. So is Azusa Pacific. Temple is in Philly. Boston College is in Boston. It's going to take a world of success for SMU to find any footing drawing viewers. ASU is in one of the biggest cities in the US and isnt competing with a TCU or UT or A&M for a college football fan base...they are an afterthought in Phoenix area. I'll make ya a bet if SMU joins the Pac 12, Boise State still draws more viewers. Don't get me wrong...I'm fine with SMU if the Pac 12 brings along another partner team in Texas or even Tulane. SMU as a stand alone entity? You think that excites Washington and Oregon, the ones you need to keep in line to hold the conference together? SMU does nothing for the Pac 12 IMO
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Post by EmeraldEmpire on Feb 18, 2023 14:28:44 GMT -8
You gotta keep the academians happy when expanding the conference. BSU is ranked in the high 300s-mid 400s (so low they didn't get assigned a specific rank), OSU is ranked 151st, SMU is ranked 72nd. Metro area wise BSU is sitting on a metro area of a bit under 800K. SMU is sitting on a metro area of just under 8 million in one of the most football rabid states in the nation. Now academics and eyeballs aren't "everything", but the league is trying to replace USC & UCLA and SMU checks a lot of big boxes. As soon as SMU has a good season in an expanded PAC, it'll be a big deal. And thats the point, the academians are specifically the ones who are causing the most risk the Pac 12 going the way of the Big East. You think ESPN/whoever gives two f%#*s that OSU is the 148th ranked university? And I don't buy the SMU big market talking point. So is Azusa Pacific. Temple is in Philly. Boston College is in Boston. It's going to take a world of success for SMU to find any footing drawing viewers. ASU is in one of the biggest cities in the US and isnt competing with a TCU or UT or A&M for a college football fan base...they are an afterthought in Phoenix area. I'll make ya a bet if SMU joins the Pac 12, Boise State still draws more viewers. Don't get me wrong...I'm fine with SMU if the Pac 12 brings along another partner team in Texas or even Tulane. SMU as a stand alone entity? You think that excites Washington and Oregon, the ones you need to keep in line to hold the conference together? SMU does nothing for the Pac 12 IMO Good point like when the Big-10 expanded to include Maryland and Rutgers ... specifically Rutgers because "oh the NYC media market" nobody gives a f*** about college football in the NYC market and certainly not Rutgers football so that was a questionable decision to bring those teams into the conference just on that reason.
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