jeff
Freshman
Posts: 25 
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Post by jeff on Feb 6, 2023 9:10:10 GMT -8
the offense stagnates when OSU doesn't have shooters or passers in the game. Bendu can bring the ball up, she can make the layin if they don't over play her right hand and she is a great defender but with her and Mannen on the court at the same time the opposition doesn't have cover either of them and sags back to deny the ball to the post.
With Martha the ball moves, she penetrates and dishes, she actually knows how to play the point and no one else on the team has her instincts. She can make an open three, the defense comes out on her which helps the entry passes to the post easier.
My advice - Play Martha more minutes. Play Lilly and Adlee more minutes. Play AJ more minutes. They need the on court playing experience. Keep Mannen on the bench and never ever play her as at point guard.
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Post by hoopheritic on Feb 6, 2023 9:29:51 GMT -8
Rueck LOVES juniors/seniors that have been in the program and have experience. All of the best teams at OSU including the conference champions teams have had their core as juniors/seniors with lots of years in the program. We currently have ONE player on the entire roster who fits that description, and amazingly she plays TONS of minutes much to most of the folks on the boards dismay. If the core 7 Frosh/Soph stick with it, we will be just fine. Also, the weekend was a big disappointment, but the one bright spot was Adlee. What a great weekend for her. I love her quick release, and she can be a fine contributor on the wing. The problem is he's now lost the trust of players who are now going to transfer. Lily might stick around. She's happy to stand in the corner and shoot a few threes per game. Adlee is very likely to transfer. Maybe not for OSU program reasons but she may see that she doesn't have P5 athleticism. AJ is almost a guaranteed transfer. The Lex pickup solidified SR's view of her by bringing in a player who she is better than in almost every way but yet she starts. Martha will likely stick around as foreign players rarely transfer. Lex may transfer because...why not add another school to your list at this point. Jelena could go start her pro career. |
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Post by lotrader on Feb 6, 2023 12:58:00 GMT -8
I don't think we have lost any players. But we might be in the danger zone.
The solution is simple: Starters are freshmen and sophomores. Minutes go to freshmen and sophomores. Backups are juniors and seniors. No compromise.
And put TvO in a spot where she is most effective which is a 3 or 2. TvO should be running off multiple screens in order to get time to set her feet before release. Just like we did for Kat Tudor. I'm not in agreement with some that TvO is not the player others have purported her to be. I truly think TvO is not being put in the optimal role for her to succeed and contribute. Asking her to play PG against Colorado's or USC's perimeter defenders was just wrong headed. TvO is the real deal, and will be far more effective when she doesn't have to be a primary ball handler.
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Post by beaverstever on Feb 6, 2023 13:12:34 GMT -8
Rueck LOVES juniors/seniors that have been in the program and have experience. All of the best teams at OSU including the conference champions teams have had their core as juniors/seniors with lots of years in the program. We currently have ONE player on the entire roster who fits that description, and amazingly she plays TONS of minutes much to most of the folks on the boards dismay. If the core 7 Frosh/Soph stick with it, we will be just fine. Also, the weekend was a big disappointment, but the one bright spot was Adlee. What a great weekend for her. I love her quick release, and she can be a fine contributor on the wing. The problem is he's now lost the trust of players who are now going to transfer. Lily might stick around. She's happy to stand in the corner and shoot a few threes per game. Adlee is very likely to transfer. Maybe not for OSU program reasons but she may see that she doesn't have P5 athleticism. AJ is almost a guaranteed transfer. The Lex pickup solidified SR's view of her by bringing in a player who she is better than in almost every way but yet she starts. Martha will likely stick around as foreign players rarely transfer. Lex may transfer because...why not add another school to your list at this point. Jelena could go start her pro career. I'm a lot less pessimistic on transfers, but we'll see. If the players are happy with the culture, leaving is hard, even if the wins are relatively scarce. WBB is a lot different than MBB, partly because many more of them have little desire to pursue basketball as a career, and they often have more of a longer-career focus. So things like hopping around trying to maximize your potential is less of a priority for many, and more about the fit working well towards you overall goals and personal satisfaction level as a whole (with friendships heavily weighted). We had a lot of transfers last year that all seems a lot more personal than career-related. That is, I don't think they had as much to do with the season vs, just not with their lifestyle and connectedness at OSU in general. Taya being the exception, who I believe left for academic pursuit reasons - and frankly is playing like she's ready to be done with basketball. D1 basketball puts a lot of wear-and-tear on the body, and when you have other career aspirations, that starts to really wear on players. To that end, I don't see anybody with this group transferring with the exception of possibly Lily due to how erratic her playing time has been, and even that seems fairly unlikely. I could see Mit leaving if she graduations, and even then I'd think she's more likely to continue into grad school. I only see Lex leaving if she is really unhappy, and doesn't seem to have that body language. I agree about AJ in theory, but she's been wildly inconsistent, while Lex has had some really bright games in conference - I don't think the outcomes really show AJ is 'better in every way' at all. AJ seems happy here as well. |
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Post by boydo on Feb 6, 2023 13:13:03 GMT -8
Rueck LOVES juniors/seniors that have been in the program and have experience. All of the best teams at OSU including the conference champions teams have had their core as juniors/seniors with lots of years in the program. We currently have ONE player on the entire roster who fits that description, and amazingly she plays TONS of minutes much to most of the folks on the boards dismay. If the core 7 Frosh/Soph stick with it, we will be just fine. Also, the weekend was a big disappointment, but the one bright spot was Adlee. What a great weekend for her. I love her quick release, and she can be a fine contributor on the wing. The problem is he's now lost the trust of players who are now going to transfer. Lily might stick around. She's happy to stand in the corner and shoot a few threes per game. Adlee is very likely to transfer. Maybe not for OSU program reasons but she may see that she doesn't have P5 athleticism. AJ is almost a guaranteed transfer. The Lex pickup solidified SR's view of her by bringing in a player who she is better than in almost every way but yet she starts. Martha will likely stick around as foreign players rarely transfer. Lex may transfer because...why not add another school to your list at this point. Jelena could go start her pro career. I am not sure why you think that Adlee is not athletic enough for P5. She is more athletic than three of our starters. She should be playing more. You must not have watched the games this weekend. |
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Post by grayman on Feb 6, 2023 13:30:29 GMT -8
The problem is he's now lost the trust of players who are now going to transfer. Lily might stick around. She's happy to stand in the corner and shoot a few threes per game. Adlee is very likely to transfer. Maybe not for OSU program reasons but she may see that she doesn't have P5 athleticism. AJ is almost a guaranteed transfer. The Lex pickup solidified SR's view of her by bringing in a player who she is better than in almost every way but yet she starts. Martha will likely stick around as foreign players rarely transfer. Lex may transfer because...why not add another school to your list at this point. Jelena could go start her pro career. I am not sure why you think that Adlee is not athletic enough for P5. She is more athletic than three of our starters. She should be playing more. You must not have watched the games this weekend. Yeah...and she had ACL surgery in 2020. That can take some time to get back to close to 100 percent. Maybe Rueck was trying to ease her in partly because of that. But she definitely looked good against Colorado. |
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Post by beaverstever on Feb 6, 2023 13:35:04 GMT -8
A little more analysis. Let's use the game stats as follows against the minutes played: + points are attributed to rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, and points; - points attributed to personal fouls and turn overs. So Yeaney's total over 21 minutes was +10 for an index score of +0.48 (+10/21); Mannen's score over 25 minutes was -2 for an index score -0.08 (-2/25); Pietsch's score over 11 minutes was +8 for an index score of +0.73 (+8/11). Looks like Pietsch is doing pretty good. Rueck needs to add a statistician to his team and start playing the odds. Gotta think outside the box. Sometimes we can't see what is right in front of us. Mannen gets piled on, and certainly has been exploited of late. But Mannen has played the 'glue' role that Taya previously played, and that isn't a role that gets measured well by stats. I recall (and can't find now) a stat earlier in the year where Mannen's +/- was way ahead of anybody else on the team in some early game, which I think is the best metric for this type of player. That said, her +/- was definitely not good in the last few games where she got picked on, and it does appear to me that her minutes are also starting to reflect that. Unfortunately, there seems to be nobody else able to step into that role. Regardless, I think the main point here is we've seen the upper end of Mannen, and it's not going to move this team forward, so we might as well see what the young guards can bring. I'm just not holding my breath that the general outcomes are going to be better (and can certainly be worse), but at least we'll see what we have. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Feb 6, 2023 14:09:13 GMT -8
I don't think its a player problem. The team looks like it has no idea what to do on offense and the defense is passive at best - there is no in your face guarding of the offensive player, no help when an opposing player dribbles to the hoop. In regards to rebounding when the ball leaves the hands of our offensive player every single player including the shooter isn't looking to see how they can get an offensive rebound they have turned their heads and ran back the other way. Its a complete lack of aggressiveness. And the coach is the one that should be instilling that in this group. Instead he often looks like a deer in the headlights.
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rafer
Sophomore
Posts: 1,627
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Post by rafer on Feb 6, 2023 15:22:10 GMT -8
I don't think its a player problem. The team looks like it has no idea what to do on offense and the defense is passive at best - there is no in your face guarding of the offensive player, no help when an opposing player dribbles to the hoop. In regards to rebounding when the ball leaves the hands of our offensive player every single player including the shooter isn't looking to see how they can get an offensive rebound they have turned their heads and ran back the other way. Its a complete lack of aggressiveness. And the coach is the one that should be instilling that in this group. Instead he often looks like a deer in the headlights. "Deer in Headlights"! Take a pill. That's just stupid bull s%#t, I'm pretty sure he isn't a deer in headlights, confused that maybe his players aren't doing what they should be, or are not energized, but I'd bet he is not standing there looking stupid! One thing that is relevant is the defense seems way to reluctant to challenge outside shots, in most cases just giving waaay too much room. Is that a result of scouting, thinking they don't shoot that well, or are they overly concerned about going out and getting blown by by quicker players? It has to be one or the other as there aren't many options that give that result. IF it's the players just not getting there to challenge, or are too slow then that's is something that can be worked on in practice. But, I'm betting that will have to be addressed before they start moving forward. Just giving all kinds of room to pop threes would allow a decent high school team to compete. I'm hoping to see a change in tactics because if they don't they will not win another game, it's too easy for even decent teams to have the advantage. |
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Post by skyrider on Feb 6, 2023 16:09:38 GMT -8
One thing that is relevant is the defense seems way to reluctant to challenge outside shots, in most cases just giving waaay too much room. Is that a result of scouting, thinking they don't shoot that well, or are they overly concerned about going out and getting blown by by quicker players? It has to be one or the other as there aren't many options that give that result. IF it's the players just not getting there to challenge, or are too slow then that's is something that can be worked on in practice. But, I'm betting that will have to be addressed before they start moving forward. Just giving all kinds of room to pop threes would allow a decent high school team to compete. I'm hoping to see a change in tactics because if they don't they will not win another game, it's too easy for even decent teams to have the advantage. Very good observations and analysis!. I believe there are two significant factors in what is happening in regards the Beav's not challenging outside shots.
(1) SR defensive philosophy has always involved not letting the opponent drive to the basket and maintaining a position to do that. In other words, he would prefer a 3 point attempt rather than a closer shot by an opponent. For several years it worked well, the Beavs shot better than the opponent and usually would win. (2) The athletes that the Beavers now have as a group do not seem to compare in terms of speed and quickness with most of the teams they are playing.
Thus two things seem to be happening on a regular basis-first if the Beavs are playing person to person defense, because they are in general slower than their opponents they will be playing them very loosely because they fear they will not be able to stop them from driving by them to the basket. Second ,SR is often forced to play zone defense because of his player's lack of speed and quickness, and as everyone is aware by moving the ball around quickly by passing against a zone defense will result in open shots.
So much for my two cents worth! Probably not worth that much!
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beav74
Freshman
Posts: 741
Grad Year: OSU 1974
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Post by beav74 on Feb 6, 2023 16:18:31 GMT -8
Wow….I haven’t heard about all these transfer possibilities. Maybe we might as well start thinking about starting competitive cheer and dropping women’s basketball.
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Post by lotrader on Feb 6, 2023 16:51:36 GMT -8
One thing that is relevant is the defense seems way to reluctant to challenge outside shots, in most cases just giving waaay too much room. Is that a result of scouting, thinking they don't shoot that well, or are they overly concerned about going out and getting blown by by quicker players? It has to be one or the other as there aren't many options that give that result. IF it's the players just not getting there to challenge, or are too slow then that's is something that can be worked on in practice. But, I'm betting that will have to be addressed before they start moving forward. Just giving all kinds of room to pop threes would allow a decent high school team to compete. I'm hoping to see a change in tactics because if they don't they will not win another game, it's too easy for even decent teams to have the advantage. Very good observations and analysis!. I believe there are two significant factors in what is happening in regards the Beav's not challenging outside shots.
(1) SR defensive philosophy has always involved not letting the opponent drive to the basket and maintaining a position to do that. In other words, he would prefer a 3 point attempt rather than a closer shot by an opponent. For several years it worked well, the Beavs shot better than the opponent and usually would win. (2) The athletes that the Beavers now have as a group do not seem to compare in terms of speed and quickness with most of the teams they are playing.
Thus two things seem to be happening on a regular basis-first if the Beavs are playing person to person defense, because they are in general slower than their opponents they will be playing them very loosely because they fear they will not be able to stop them from driving by them to the basket. Second ,SR is often forced to play zone defense because of his player's lack of speed and quickness, and as everyone is aware by moving the ball around quickly by passing against a zone defense will result in open shots.
So much for my two cents worth! Probably not worth that much!
There is no doubt that quickness is a good trait in a basketball player. Another excellent trait in a basketball player is the ability to see a play develop, particularly from a defensive perspective. You don't have to have world class quickness if you can see a screen coming and your ability to anticipate that screen allows you to "blow up" the screen attempt. Our two guards coming in have that skill. They read offensive play very well. Both incoming freshmen have soccer backgrounds, and elite soccer players have excellent feet and read play well. Gabby Hanson did not have world class quickness, but Gabby had great feet and was incredible at reading play. Gabby rarely got picked off by a screen. We have had perimeter players who read play well (Kat, Pivec, Katie). But Gabby was in a league of her own because of how quickly she moved her feet and stayed in front of her offensive player. I don't know if Gabby played soccer, but my guess is she probably did growing up. Here is good article on Gabby Hanson: www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2017/03/how_oregon_states_gabby_hanson.html |
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Post by greybeav on Feb 6, 2023 16:52:38 GMT -8
Was that the most pissed off you have seen Rueck when he got that the technical, in my memory it is. I'd appreciate anyone who was at the game or watching at home and remembers what it was that triggered it. One of our players getting beat up with no foul calls I'm guessing.
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Post by standerd on Feb 6, 2023 18:07:15 GMT -8
Was that the most pissed off you have seen Rueck when he got that the technical, in my memory it is. I'd appreciate anyone who was at the game or watching at home and remembers what it was that triggered it. One of our players getting beat up with no foul calls I'm guessing. I saw this on TV. Yes. it was related to Colorado players mauling an OSU player without a call. If SR hadn't done that I think someone might have gotten hurt during this game. PAC 12 refs allowing way too much contact and flopping. They need to attend the many "How to use your whistle" workshops. |
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Post by sparty on Feb 6, 2023 18:30:18 GMT -8
Wow….I haven’t heard about all these transfer possibilities. Maybe we might as well start thinking about starting competitive cheer and dropping women’s basketball. There are two or three posters here that are thinking about hitting the portal themselves. |
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