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Post by grayman on Feb 5, 2023 17:58:49 GMT -8
Martha only plays 11 minutes (for whatever reason) and still ties for the team lead in assists (3) today The reason for Martha's playing time really boils down to her height (she's listed at 5-5, the shortest player on the roster). Right away that makes her a potential defensive liability She is probably a better passer and marginally better 3-point shooter than Yeaney. At 5-10, Yeaney has five inches on Martha and is a better defensive stopper. She is also much better at taking the ball to the basket. Open court speed and ballhandling goes to Yeaney although I don't think Martha has a problem in these areas. So maybe Martha should play a little more, but she's really not more than a backup level PG. Yeaney still gets the nod despite Martha being closer to having the overall skill set of a true point guard. |
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Post by grayman on Feb 5, 2023 18:11:09 GMT -8
Can you imagine how difficult it is going to be to keep Ragean and Timea from being poached by other teams (i.e. transfer portal)! The other coaches and their programs are going to be like "Sharks circling where blood is in the water". Hopefully giving them(and the other freshmen) as much playing time as possible will help make up for them knowing that (a)historically in the past few years OSU has lacked a quality point guard and (b) Coach Rueck has shown little ability to recruit quality point guards. On another issue, I have a hard time believing I am watching the same player this year vs last when I see TVO now. If she is hurt she should not be playing. If she is not hurt, this has to be one of the major second year slumps in recent memory. When the going gets tough, the tough put their heads down and power forward. The not-so-tough Portal Out. Hopefully, our players are the former and not the later. TvO is obviously pressing on offense. Lots of her shots are really forced, and consequently she misses most of them. Some of them quite badly. Seems like the offense is having a hard time generating clean looks for her, and when she gets the ball she often goes iso and ends up forcing something up. Rueck has given her the longest leash on the team, and he finally sat her early in this one. Not sure what to make of that.Mannen? Scrappy on ball defender, makes the hustle plays, but is a non-presence offensively. Maybe if she was a deadly 3 pt. shooter, but this team is offensively challenged enough with no real offense from one of the guard positions. Gardiner was a bright spot. She’s a scorer on a team that desperately needs scorers. I’m not sure why Rueck didn’t play her all of Q4. Nice to see the freshmen guards hit some 3’s. Adlee hit some big ones. They made some mistakes, but actually fewer than the starters did in Q1. Not a lot else to say on this one. Getting a beat down on your home floor is never a good thing, but, as they say, nowhere to go but up. TVO struggles to create shots against every opponent that has a few to several good, athletic guards who play tight defense (which is more than a couple in the Pac-12). Today was a standout example of that and Colorado just locked her down. TVO was too often just throwing stuff up because of the defense. Again, like all of her teammates, TVO would benefit from a good point guard. But without the 3 falling, she's just not nearly as effective right now. I think part of Rueck's decision to sit her earlier in this one is she had two turnovers right off the bat and was already looking off kilter. |
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Post by skyrider on Feb 5, 2023 18:15:16 GMT -8
Martha only plays 11 minutes (for whatever reason) and still ties for the team lead in assists (3) today The reason for Martha's playing time really boils down to her height (she's listed at 5-5, the shortest player on the roster). Right away that makes her a potential defensive liability She is probably a better passer and marginally better 3-point shooter than Yeaney. At 5-10, Yeaney has five inches on Martha and is a better defensive stopper. She is also much better at taking the ball to the basket. Open court speed and ballhandling goes to Yeaney although I don't think Martha has a problem in these areas. So maybe Martha should play a little more, but she's really not more than a backup level PG. Yeaney still gets the nod despite Martha being closer to having the overall skill set of a true point guard. grayman,
Your observations are always well thought out and reasoned. Thank you.
So what is your view on the state of this program now and in the future. Do you believe that if they retain their current roster that will be the solution? If not, then what problem areas (player development/change of assistant coaches/ change of style of play/recruiting changes) do you see as the critical ones to resolve. Also your view on what gives with TVO.? She seems to be going backwards at an ever increasing speed!
Have a good evening!
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Post by standerd on Feb 5, 2023 18:20:56 GMT -8
Martha may only be 5"5", but she is a good and true point guard who has shown that she can play the position. Given the current state of the team, what do we have to lose. Also, small does not mean can't play big! A good point guard setting up the bigs is what we are looking for, or is it all about height. I don't think so! Also, Martha can hit the 3 and knock down the mid-range at a higher rate than Yeaney. Doesn't matter to me who starts, I just think they complement each other and should be platooned in that position. IMO coach just wasting another good player (because of height?). Again: what do we have to lose, because we are already 10th in the PAC-12? Let's try thinking outside the box for once.
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Post by grayman on Feb 5, 2023 18:54:11 GMT -8
The reason for Martha's playing time really boils down to her height (she's listed at 5-5, the shortest player on the roster). Right away that makes her a potential defensive liability She is probably a better passer and marginally better 3-point shooter than Yeaney. At 5-10, Yeaney has five inches on Martha and is a better defensive stopper. She is also much better at taking the ball to the basket. Open court speed and ballhandling goes to Yeaney although I don't think Martha has a problem in these areas. So maybe Martha should play a little more, but she's really not more than a backup level PG. Yeaney still gets the nod despite Martha being closer to having the overall skill set of a true point guard. grayman,
Your observations are always well thought out and reasoned. Thank you.
So what is your view on the state of this program now and in the future. Do you believe that if they retain their current roster that will be the solution? If not, then what problem areas (player development/change of assistant coaches/ change of style of play/recruiting changes) do you see as the critical ones to resolve. Also your view on what gives with TVO.? She seems to be going backwards at an ever increasing speed!
Have a good evening!
Thanks. Well, let's see. State of the program? It's trending downward, there's no doubt. I do believe that the portal hits that the program has taken is a big reason, and it has culminated in a very young current roster. Then there is the lack of a true point guard the past two seasons. So yes, I think they need to retain their current roster along with adding the two incoming freshman and maybe another point guard through the portal (although how Pietsch finishes the season here could change that). As somewhat of an aside, I don't care for Rueck's philosophy, but I do think that given enough of an upgrade to the backcourt that they can win at a reasonable clip (i.e. finishing in the top half of the conference and getting into the NCAAs regularly). I think the ship has sailed on the Beavers being considered a national power of any sort. They obviously need Beers and Gardiner back. I also really like what I've seen in Hansford and Blacklock lately. Blacklock really stood out in the second quarter today. It wasn't just that she hit 3s. It was her passing and understanding of spacing. Just crazy that she seemed to have a better grasp on what was going on than say, TVO. As for TVO, she just doesn't match up well with athletic, speedy backcourts. As I said in another post, they just locked her down today and she was left with forcing up bad shots. She just isn't athletic enough from a basketball standpoint to create a lot of good shots and she's struggling with the 3, which compounds her issues against teams like Colorado. It's hard to say about player development. It does look like there's often a disconnect between the players and the staff when the play devolves into a mess at times. I also think that when you really get down to it, too much of the current roster is really made up of essentially role players, meaning players that would come off the bench in certain situations for other teams but for the most part are not starters. To me, Mannen, Mit, Marotte, Pietsch, Aaron and even Yeaney fit this category (she is doing what she can at point, but it's not a natural spot for her). If you talk about some of the stronger teams around, then even TVO. Beers is definitely more than just a role player even though she doesn't start. I'm leaving Gardiner and the other two freshmen out of the conversation for now because we need to see them more. I'm pretty sure Gardiner is more than a role player, obviously. But she has a lot of room for defensive development. My point is that it's just not a particularly strong roster top to bottom, especially without a point guard to lead the way. |
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Post by skyrider on Feb 5, 2023 18:56:47 GMT -8
Martha may only be 5"5", but she is a good and true point guard who has shown that she can play the position. Given the current state of the team, what do we have to lose. Also, small does not mean can't play big! A good point guard setting up the bigs is what we are looking for, or is it all about height. I don't think so! Also, Martha can hit the 3 and knock down the mid-range at a higher rate than Yeaney. Doesn't matter to me who starts, I just think they complement each other and should be platooned in that position. IMO coach just wasting another good player (because of height?). Again: what do we have to lose, because we are already 10th in the PAC-12? Let's try thinking outside the box for once. Standerd,
Well put. As to "what do we have to lose" clearly not much since we have lost so d---- many times already! I have stated it before and I truly believe it that SR just does not like true point guards who can beat an opponent off the dribble, then pass off to an open shooter.
At that point, he is "losing control" of calling every play and standing on the sideline doing so like a King or General watching the peasants or troops in action.
Go Beavs!
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Post by alwaysorange on Feb 5, 2023 19:02:35 GMT -8
Martha may only be 5"5", but she is a good and true point guard who has shown that she can play the position. Given the current state of the team, what do we have to lose. Also, small does not mean can't play big! A good point guard setting up the bigs is what we are looking for, or is it all about height. I don't think so! Also, Martha can hit the 3 and knock down the mid-range at a higher rate than Yeaney. Doesn't matter to me who starts, I just think they complement each other and should be platooned in that position. IMO coach just wasting another good player (because of height?). Again: what do we have to lose, because we are already 10th in the PAC-12? Let's try thinking outside the box for once. Standerd,
Well put. As to "what do we have to lose" clearly not much since we have lost so d---- many times already! I have stated it before and I truly believe it that SR just does not like true point guards who can beat an opponent off the dribble, then pass off to an open shooter.
At that point, he is "losing control" of calling every play and standing on the sideline doing so like a King or General watching the peasants or troops in action.
Go Beavs!
Yep |
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Post by standerd on Feb 5, 2023 19:11:53 GMT -8
A little more analysis. Let's use the game stats as follows against the minutes played: + points are attributed to rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, and points; - points attributed to personal fouls and turn overs. So Yeaney's total over 21 minutes was +10 for an index score of +0.48 (+10/21); Mannen's score over 25 minutes was -2 for an index score -0.08 (-2/25); Pietsch's score over 11 minutes was +8 for an index score of +0.73 (+8/11). Looks like Pietsch is doing pretty good. Rueck needs to add a statistician to his team and start playing the odds. Gotta think outside the box. Sometimes we can't see what is right in front of us.
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Post by skyrider on Feb 5, 2023 19:44:58 GMT -8
A little more analysis. Let's use the game stats as follows against the minutes played: + points are attributed to rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, and points; - points attributed to personal fouls and turn overs. So Yeaney's total over 21 minutes was +10 for an index score of +0.48 (+10/21); Mannen's score over 25 minutes was -2 for an index score -0.08 (-2/25); Pietsch's score over 11 minutes was +8 for an index score of +0.73 (+8/11). Looks like Pietsch is doing pretty good. Rueck needs to add a statistician to his team and start playing the odds. Gotta think outside the box. Sometimes we can't see what is right in front of us. Standerd,
Outstanding observation!
I, for one, would love it if SR would quit smiling and rationalizing like everything is going great at the press conferences.
Maybe a little genuine anger and frustration might wake this team up. He states that it is only the inconsistency of their game performances that is holding the team back from winning. Well, pray tell, who is responsible for correcting that if not the Coach!
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Post by grayman on Feb 5, 2023 20:40:33 GMT -8
A little more analysis. Let's use the game stats as follows against the minutes played: + points are attributed to rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, and points; - points attributed to personal fouls and turn overs. So Yeaney's total over 21 minutes was +10 for an index score of +0.48 (+10/21); Mannen's score over 25 minutes was -2 for an index score -0.08 (-2/25); Pietsch's score over 11 minutes was +8 for an index score of +0.73 (+8/11). Looks like Pietsch is doing pretty good. Rueck needs to add a statistician to his team and start playing the odds. Gotta think outside the box. Sometimes we can't see what is right in front of us. Hmm. Very interesting. |
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Post by boydo on Feb 5, 2023 23:44:22 GMT -8
A little more analysis. Let's use the game stats as follows against the minutes played: + points are attributed to rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, and points; - points attributed to personal fouls and turn overs. So Yeaney's total over 21 minutes was +10 for an index score of +0.48 (+10/21); Mannen's score over 25 minutes was -2 for an index score -0.08 (-2/25); Pietsch's score over 11 minutes was +8 for an index score of +0.73 (+8/11). Looks like Pietsch is doing pretty good. Rueck needs to add a statistician to his team and start playing the odds. Gotta think outside the box. Sometimes we can't see what is right in front of us. Mannen is second on the team in minutes while averaging 3.7 points per game and shooting .342 from the field. The reason for that much time does not make sense to me. When she is in the game her defender sags into the middle and helps clog up the key. She can't bring the ball up the court against pressure and has difficulty guarding quick guards. The starting lineup lacks offensive ability and we end up putting ourselves in a hole. I am glad to see I am glad Adlee is seeing some playing time because they actually have to guard her on the perimeter. Thanks for posting the index score, I am sure for the Utah game Mannens negative would be much worse. Mannen would not start on any other D 1 team in the country and I have a hard time understanding what the coach is thinking. |
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Post by hoopheritic on Feb 6, 2023 7:09:34 GMT -8
When the going gets tough, the tough put their heads down and power forward. The not-so-tough Portal Out. Hopefully, our players are the former and not the later. TvO is obviously pressing on offense. Lots of her shots are really forced, and consequently she misses most of them. Some of them quite badly. Seems like the offense is having a hard time generating clean looks for her, and when she gets the ball she often goes iso and ends up forcing something up. Rueck has given her the longest leash on the team, and he finally sat her early in this one. Not sure what to make of that.Mannen? Scrappy on ball defender, makes the hustle plays, but is a non-presence offensively. Maybe if she was a deadly 3 pt. shooter, but this team is offensively challenged enough with no real offense from one of the guard positions. Gardiner was a bright spot. She’s a scorer on a team that desperately needs scorers. I’m not sure why Rueck didn’t play her all of Q4. Nice to see the freshmen guards hit some 3’s. Adlee hit some big ones. They made some mistakes, but actually fewer than the starters did in Q1. Not a lot else to say on this one. Getting a beat down on your home floor is never a good thing, but, as they say, nowhere to go but up. (which is more than a couple in the Pac-12). Today was a standout example of that and Colorado just locked her down. TVO was too often just throwing stuff up because of the defense. Again, like all of her teammates, TVO would benefit from a good point guard. But without the 3 falling, she's just not nearly as effective right now. I think part of Rueck's decision to sit her earlier in this one is she had two turnovers right off the bat and was already looking off kilter. This. Nobody wants to say it but if you have a couple of athletes Talia is very easy to shut down. She can bully ball with the best of 'em but does not have the quickness to create space or turn the corner on athletic defenders. Timea will be the centerpiece of the offense as soon as she is ready. Raegan got us a few wins but you can't rely on that kind of productivity from a pure post player all season long. |
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Post by lotrader on Feb 6, 2023 8:32:26 GMT -8
Martha may only be 5"5", but she is a good and true point guard who has shown that she can play the position. Given the current state of the team, what do we have to lose. Also, small does not mean can't play big! A good point guard setting up the bigs is what we are looking for, or is it all about height. I don't think so! Also, Martha can hit the 3 and knock down the mid-range at a higher rate than Yeaney. Doesn't matter to me who starts, I just think they complement each other and should be platooned in that position. IMO coach just wasting another good player (because of height?). Again: what do we have to lose, because we are already 10th in the PAC-12? Let's try thinking outside the box for once. Who says Bendu and Martha can't be on the floor at the same time? Martha's height may be an issue if she is being posted up, but we have enough height at all times in the paint--so we are not sacrificing much. Martha moves her feet on defense as well as anyone on the team, and Martha is tough. Not a single other OSU player has the PG skills that Martha possesses, and to think Martha is only a freshman. Give her the ball. |
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Post by grad1973 on Feb 6, 2023 8:41:42 GMT -8
I do like that he's getting more playing time for Blacklock and Hansford. Really paying off for Blacklock especially. nobody in the starting line up could shoot except Gardiner against Colorado so they would both be good canidates |
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Post by wbosh15 on Feb 6, 2023 9:00:50 GMT -8
Rueck LOVES juniors/seniors that have been in the program and have experience. All of the best teams at OSU including the conference champions teams have had their core as juniors/seniors with lots of years in the program. We currently have ONE player on the entire roster who fits that description, and amazingly she plays TONS of minutes much to most of the folks on the boards dismay. If the core 7 Frosh/Soph stick with it, we will be just fine.
Also, the weekend was a big disappointment, but the one bright spot was Adlee. What a great weekend for her. I love her quick release, and she can be a fine contributor on the wing.
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