orman58
Freshman
Posts: 22
Grad Year: 1972
|
Post by orman58 on Jan 31, 2023 11:09:52 GMT -8
The February SI has a terrific article. "The Lost Art of Post Play". It is about the NBA, but in the article, it talks about how dominate in can be in the college game.
It starts with Pete Newell's big man camp that started with Kermit Washington and Kiki VanDeWeghe while he was still at UCLA and continues to Olajuwan (Hakeem the Dream instructional video) teaching today's players if they want. Lots of little stuff that should be taught/learned. Kobe was a student.
In 1995 Newell told the LA Times that a generation of players were being "over-coached but under-taught". Seems familiar.
|
|
|
|
Post by wbosh15 on Jan 31, 2023 11:10:26 GMT -8
All good discussion points, but I think even more than any coaching or style of play issues, it's just not having the players. (Which is on the coaches, I know). IMO change nothing else, but give this team Syd Weise, and they are battling Stanford for the title. Change nothing else but give this team Aleah Goodman, it's battling for home court in the tourney. Scott wasn't a genius when he was winning the titles, and he's not an idiot now. When he was winning the title, he had an all-pac-12 post, and 2 all-pac-12 guards with complementary pieces. Beers and Gardiner are future all-pac-12 level players. TVO can be if she's not the lead guard. IMO the most important thing for the future of the program, is minimizing loses to the portal. Give this team Goforth right now, and we would all be a lot happier.
|
|
|
|
Post by messi on Jan 31, 2023 11:12:13 GMT -8
Since 2014-15 the pac12 finishes are 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, today 10th. The only person that has been there the entire stretch? Hmmm who could that be? It would be one thing if there was a 3rd place finish then 2nd, then 5th then 3rd. But the downward trend can't be ignored. It's in freefall. Does Some body have a parachute? Katie (Baker) Faulkner joined the Beavers in the summer of 2016 and left after the 2020-2021 season. I wonder how much impact she had? MB. Also Mark Campbell left in 2015, another thing to consider. |
|
|
|
Post by wbosh15 on Jan 31, 2023 11:18:18 GMT -8
The February SI has a terrific article. "The Lost Art of Post Play". It is about the NBA, but in the article, it talks about how dominate in can be in the college game. It starts with Pete Newell's big man camp that started with Kermit Washington and Kiki VanDeWeghe while he was still at UCLA and continues to Olajuwan (Hakeem the Dream instructional video) teaching today's players if they want. Lots of little stuff that should be taught/learned. Kobe was a student. In 1995 Newell told the LA Times that a generation of players were being "over-coached but under-taught". Seems familiar. I really enjoyed that article. The player on the roster I can really see turning into a dominant post player is Gardiner. |
|
|
|
Post by jones on Jan 31, 2023 11:26:03 GMT -8
All good discussion points, but I think even more than any coaching or style of play issues, it's just not having the players. (Which is on the coaches, I know). IMO change nothing else, but give this team Syd Weise, and they are battling Stanford for the title. Change nothing else but give this team Aleah Goodman, it's battling for home court in the tourney. Scott wasn't a genius when he was winning the titles, and he's not an idiot now. When he was winning the title, he had an all-pac-12 post, and 2 all-pac-12 guards with complementary pieces. Beers and Gardiner are future all-pac-12 level players. TVO can be if she's not the lead guard. IMO the most important thing for the future of the program, is minimizing loses to the portal. Give this team Goforth right now, and we would all be a lot happier. Aleah was the beneficiary of good coaching (thanks coach Rueck) and eventually bloomed into a bona fide point guard with above average ball handling skills. And.... she was also a coach on the floor. My favorite player Katie "clutch" McWilliams could also handle the ball while bringing it up court and was used when other guards struggled. The Beavers are only a point guard away from glory. |
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Jan 31, 2023 12:25:09 GMT -8
I remember about 3 or 4 years ago the Beavers had a guard who transferred after I believe her junior year to a college in California. I think it was to a San Diego college but I may be wrong about that part. I wish I could remember her name but I am unable to do so. At that time she had to sit out a whole year and then played her last year of college basketball at that college. I believe her year at that school she averaged about 15 points a game and several assists per game.
We had an excellent team at that time and Syd was our point guard and rightly so. However this other person was also a terrific point guard in terms of dribble penetration into the key and then passing off to other players. She also shot the ball reasonably well from the 3 point line.
She was the best I personally have ever seen on a Beaver women's team at breaking down a defense on the dribble and then either passing off to another player or getting a close shot for herself.
My point after all the above, is that Coach Rueck never really appreciated her skills and what she could do. It was not that he did not play her.
She played every game as a substitute (probably 10 minutes or so per game) but it was clear that what she did so superbly well just did not fit with his idea of calling out every play and movement.
All of the above I believe gives a clear example of why it is unlikely we will either obtain or develop on a consistent basis quality point guards.
Coach Rueck appears to not value that type of player, and it is clear that most potential players either know that or other teams that are recruiting them are quick to point it out to them.
|
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Jan 31, 2023 12:34:49 GMT -8
As I think more about my above post, It must have been more like 5 or 6 years ago that this situation happened. Sorry for the confusion!
|
|
|
|
Post by standerd on Jan 31, 2023 12:43:47 GMT -8
I remember about 3 or 4 years ago the Beavers had a guard who transferred after I believe her junior year to a college in California. I think it was to a San Diego college but I may be wrong about that part. I wish I could remember her name but I am unable to do so. At that time she had to sit out a whole year and then played her last year of college basketball at that college. I believe her year at that school she averaged about 15 points a game and several assists per game.
We had an excellent team at that time and Syd was our point guard and rightly so. However this other person was also a terrific point guard in terms of dribble penetration into the key and then passing off to other players. She also shot the ball reasonably well from the 3 point line.
She was the best I personally have ever seen on a Beaver women's team at breaking down a defense on the dribble and then either passing off to another player or getting a close shot for herself.
My point after all the above, is that Coach Rueck never really appreciated her skills and what she could do. It was not that he did not play her.
She played every game as a substitute (probably 10 minutes or so per game) but it was clear that what she did so superbly well just did not fit with his idea of calling out every play and movement.
All of the above I believe gives a clear example of why it is unlikely we will either obtain or develop on a consistent basis quality point guards.
Coach Rueck appears to not value that type of player, and it is clear that most potential players either know that or other teams that are recruiting them are quick to point it out to them.
|
|
|
|
Post by standerd on Jan 31, 2023 12:45:18 GMT -8
The player's name is Taylor Kalmer. She transferred to SDSU 2018-2019.
|
|
|
|
Post by beaverwbb fan on Jan 31, 2023 12:54:05 GMT -8
I remember about 3 or 4 years ago the Beavers had a guard who transferred after I believe her junior year to a college in California. I think it was to a San Diego college but I may be wrong about that part. I wish I could remember her name but I am unable to do so. At that time she had to sit out a whole year and then played her last year of college basketball at that college. I believe her year at that school she averaged about 15 points a game and several assists per game.
We had an excellent team at that time and Syd was our point guard and rightly so. However this other person was also a terrific point guard in terms of dribble penetration into the key and then passing off to other players. She also shot the ball reasonably well from the 3 point line.
She was the best I personally have ever seen on a Beaver women's team at breaking down a defense on the dribble and then either passing off to another player or getting a close shot for herself.
My point after all the above, is that Coach Rueck never really appreciated her skills and what she could do. It was not that he did not play her.
She played every game as a substitute (probably 10 minutes or so per game) but it was clear that what she did so superbly well just did not fit with his idea of calling out every play and movement.
All of the above I believe gives a clear example of why it is unlikely we will either obtain or develop on a consistent basis quality point guards.
Coach Rueck appears to not value that type of player, and it is clear that most potential players either know that or other teams that are recruiting them are quick to point it out to them. I believe you're thinking of Taylor Kalmer. She averaged 17.3 MPG as a junior in 2017-18 but the emergence of Goodman, who was statistically superior in many categories, bumped her to third string PG. With all of our guards returning and the addition of Slocum, she wisely decided to transfer out and had a very good year at SDSU. I think you're overlooking things a bit. This was just an example of a younger, more talented player (Goodman) coming in and taking an upperclassman's place. Goodman, as a freshman, was more productive in less minutes and eventually earned herself more minutes by the end of the season. |
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Jan 31, 2023 13:02:44 GMT -8
All good discussion points, but I think even more than any coaching or style of play issues, it's just not having the players. (Which is on the coaches, I know). IMO change nothing else, but give this team Syd Weise, and they are battling Stanford for the title. Change nothing else but give this team Aleah Goodman, it's battling for home court in the tourney. Scott wasn't a genius when he was winning the titles, and he's not an idiot now. When he was winning the title, he had an all-pac-12 post, and 2 all-pac-12 guards with complementary pieces. Beers and Gardiner are future all-pac-12 level players. TVO can be if she's not the lead guard. IMO the most important thing for the future of the program, is minimizing loses to the portal. Give this team Goforth right now, and we would all be a lot happier. Yeah, I think you are definitely on the right track. I will say I think they need more than just Syd Wiese to battle Stanford. Maybe Wiese and Gulich. I used to think recruiting wasn't the issue because Rueck is still able to land some top players (retaining those players is a separate issue but has become a major factor). But looking through the roster he's had, it's very obvious that he not only hit on two to three top level players but was very good in building the roster around them. For example, let's go back just five years to the 2017-18 roster. Rueck had Mikayla Pivec, Aleah Goodman, Taya Corosdale, Katie McWilliams, Marie Gulich, Kat Tudor and Destiny Slocum (sat out due to transfer rules) together on one team along with Madison Washington, Joanna Grymek, Taylor Kalmer and Janessa Thropay. Gulich graduated the next year but they gained Slocum and Pivec, Goodman, Corosdale, McWilliams and Tudor returned. Rueck brought in Andrea Aquino, no doubt as the next great post. Unfortunately that did not pan out. Grymek and Patricia Morris held down the spot. Compare those rosters with the current one. There's a huge difference at guard and better depth in the frontcourt. The current roster is better at post than the 2018-19 roster, but Gulich was better than both Mit and Beers. Just better depth with a higher quality throughout the roster. Add a top portal point guard to the current roster (assuming it stays together) would close the gap some. The two incoming freshmen could add quality to the roster as well. |
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Jan 31, 2023 13:15:53 GMT -8
Thanks for all the excellent responses. My major point was not that Taylor Kalmer was a better basketball player than Aleah or Syd or perhaps many others along the way.
My point was that the skill of breaking down a defense by quickness, ball handling, dribbling by her opponent and then passing off to open shooters or scoring herself was something that Coach Rueck just did not value that much for his "system".
I stand by that position but feel it does not negate any of the insights above given by fellow group members.
Go Beavs!
|
|
|
|
Post by believeinthebeavs on Jan 31, 2023 14:05:52 GMT -8
Thanks for all the excellent responses. My major point was not that Taylor Kalmer was a better basketball player than Aleah or Syd or perhaps many others along the way. My point was that the skill of breaking down a defense by quickness, ball handling, dribbling by her opponent and then passing off to open shooters or scoring herself was something that Coach Rueck just did not value that much for his "system". I stand by that position but feel it does not negate any of the insights above given by fellow group members. Go Beavs! Ha ha ha ha, that's a good one. Kalmer was in no way better than either Syd or Aleah. He offense was OK at best but her defense was a liability. She couldn't make it on a power 5 roster but did find a home on a lower team. |
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Jan 31, 2023 14:58:42 GMT -8
beliveinthebeavs,
Thank you for your response. You stated "Kalmer was in no way better than either Syd or Aleah". I said in my post "My major point was not that Taylor Kalmer was a better basketball player than Aleah or Syd or perhaps many others along the way".
We both agree on that!
You stated " She couldn't make it on a power 5 roster but did find a home on a lower team". I believe that is not accurate. She was a three year valuable contributor to a very very high level power 5 conference team during her time at OSU.
Again as I stated previously "My point was that her the skill of breaking down a defense by quickness, ball handling, dribbling by her opponent and then passing off to open shooters or scoring herself was something that Coach Rueck just did not value that much for his "system".
Again, thank you for contributing to the discussion!
|
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Jan 31, 2023 15:08:06 GMT -8
To me, the major determinant of whether OSU current WBB staff is developing player skills when they are in the program will be the progress of TVO, Raegan, and Timea. Clearly all three are not limited in terms of physical ability, intelligence, and basketball experience.
Just as clearly in the case of Raegan and Timea both are post players (although Timea can clearly play the four and probably the three position also) so there are proven instruction, techniques, etc. for post play development.
I believe Jelena's lack of progress in many areas is a big negative in terms of player development in this area.
Hopefully in the future, Raegan and Timea's progress will indicate a big positive for the OSU Coaches in terms of player development.
|
|
