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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 20, 2023 12:48:58 GMT -8
I didn't say anything about his contract. We can complain about bad performance and disagree with your weird cheerleading of a coach that isn't good. He has schematic issues that never go away, sometimes the talent is better and it's more hidden. Lol!!!!! Those schematic issues!!!!!!!!!!! Lol!!!!!! Oh man! Talk about hidden! Lol!!!!!!!! No. Tinkle is an above average X and O coach. He is a very inconsistent recruiter. And I don't know how much he has to alter his scheme to fit around the players that he is able to recruit. In the end, we get what we pay for. Oregon State pays for the 10th-best program in the Pac-12. Tinkle is usually better than that. But maybe we get worse this year? Who knows. We get what we pay for, though. Tinkle's still playing with house money in my book. Maybe he runs out this year. I don't know. But you don't run a team with the 10th-largest budget in the Pac-12 to the Elite Eight without having an above-average scheme. Phil Jackson probably puts up one or two more wins a year at Oregon State with X's and O's. Tinkle does what he can with the budget that Oregon State give him. No offense, but the last half of that season was an offensive abberation for the Tinkle years. I've been/am a Tinkle supporter, but his teams have, with the exception of the second half of that season where he handed the offensive coaching duties over to an assistant and focused on the D himself, have always been very lacking in offensive movement. Most seasons the offense has largely been dribble or pass the ball around until 7 or 8 seconds are left on the clock then whoever ends up having the ball at that point does their best to get a shot up before the clock expires. That playoff run should have been the blueprint for the team offensively from that point forward. I don't know if last year's team couldn't play it because the new additions couldn't/wouldn't run it and the others just kinda gave up. I don't know if the current kids are still working on figuring it out because it's new or if Tinkle's gone back to his earlier ways. Every now and then I see some decent movement and a very good inbounding play out of these kids, so I'm hoping it's a matter of young team and work-in-progress... but OSU under Tinkle has generally had it's issues offensively and the bulk of what success they've had was due to defense. During the playoff run they put them both together, I'm hoping it comes back. |
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Jan 20, 2023 13:13:57 GMT -8
Yeah I don't know what to tell people who see the chronic standing around on offense and poor press breaking play and not think coaching isn't a big part of those issues.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 20, 2023 13:19:18 GMT -8
Lol!!!!! Those schematic issues!!!!!!!!!!! Lol!!!!!! Oh man! Talk about hidden! Lol!!!!!!!! No. Tinkle is an above average X and O coach. He is a very inconsistent recruiter. And I don't know how much he has to alter his scheme to fit around the players that he is able to recruit. In the end, we get what we pay for. Oregon State pays for the 10th-best program in the Pac-12. Tinkle is usually better than that. But maybe we get worse this year? Who knows. We get what we pay for, though. Tinkle's still playing with house money in my book. Maybe he runs out this year. I don't know. But you don't run a team with the 10th-largest budget in the Pac-12 to the Elite Eight without having an above-average scheme. Phil Jackson probably puts up one or two more wins a year at Oregon State with X's and O's. Tinkle does what he can with the budget that Oregon State give him. No offense, but the last half of that season was an offensive aberration for the Tinkle years. I've been/am a Tinkle supporter, but his teams have, with the exception of the second half of that season where he handed the offensive coaching duties over to an assistant and focused on the D himself, have always been very lacking in offensive movement. Most seasons the offense has largely been dribble or pass the ball around until 7 or 8 seconds are left on the clock then whoever ends up having the ball at that point does their best to get a shot up before the clock expires. That playoff run should have been the blueprint for the team offensively from that point forward. I don't know if last year's team couldn't play it because the new additions couldn't/wouldn't run it and the others just kinda gave up. I don't know if the current kids are still working on figuring it out because it's new or if Tinkle's gone back to his earlier ways. Every now and then I see some decent movement and a very good inbounding play out of these kids, so I'm hoping it's a matter of young team and work-in-progress... but OSU under Tinkle has generally had it's issues offensively and the bulk of what success they've had was due to defense. During the playoff run they put them both together, I'm hoping it comes back. Y'know, offensively, Oregon State shot better each year from 2017-18 through last year (2021-22) than it did in 2020-21. To say that there is something wrong with the offense, I believe, is counter-factual. The problem is with the defense and rebounding. Oregon State had a great perimeter defense in 2020-21, which it never enjoyed before or since. Oregon State is getting back a decent defense again this year. But the offense just is not there. The shooting has been great on the outside. Inside, though, it has been a mess. When the offense is able to generate open looks, Oregon State's offense has been great. When it does not, the offense stagnates. This is the issue. And it is not an endemic one. This is a different issue than any of the teams have experienced since the dreadful 2016-17 year. If you are saying that issues in that year have resurfaced, I would listen to that. The statistics show, though, that those issues have not really been an issue since 2016-17 until this year. That 2016-17 team without Tres was stupid young. This 2022-23 team is stupid young, as well. Maybe that is what ties them together? I would listen to that. The offense is not there, because most of the players just have not been in the system long enough for it to really click. Ok, I buy that. Anyway, that is a short thought on the issues with this year's team. I was hoping that this would be more like the growth we saw in 2017-18, 2018-19, 2019-20, and 2020-21. But I do not know, if we can go 5-7 to 7-5 down the stretch to recreate the momentum that year. I hope so. I just don't know. A lot of basketball left to play, though. |
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Jan 20, 2023 14:54:42 GMT -8
I didn't say anything about his contract. We can complain about bad performance and disagree with your weird cheerleading of a coach that isn't good. He has schematic issues that never go away, sometimes the talent is better and it's more hidden. Lol!!!!! Those schematic issues!!!!!!!!!!! Lol!!!!!! Oh man! Talk about hidden! Lol!!!!!!!! No. Tinkle is an above average X and O coach. He is a very inconsistent recruiter. And I don't know how much he has to alter his scheme to fit around the players that he is able to recruit. In the end, we get what we pay for. Oregon State pays for the 10th-best program in the Pac-12. Tinkle is usually better than that. But maybe we get worse this year? Who knows. We get what we pay for, though. Tinkle's still playing with house money in my book. Maybe he runs out this year. I don't know. But you don't run a team with the 10th-largest budget in the Pac-12 to the Elite Eight without having an above-average scheme. Phil Jackson probably puts up one or two more wins a year at Oregon State with X's and O's. Tinkle does what he can with the budget that Oregon State give him. How many turnovers have we had on inbounds in his tenure? Is that average? Real question cause it seems like he can't beat a full court press. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 20, 2023 15:05:47 GMT -8
I also think this team is stupid young and should win more games in the upcoming seasons. We've got good shooters as far as 3 point shooting goes... if they're open, but first and foremost they should not be relying on the three. Live by the 3, die by the 3. Even though I think we have good 3 point shooters, our offense sucks most of the time. College teams on average shoot about 35% from 3 point land, we're hitting 33.1 according to ESPN. That's a recipe for scoring less than the other guys unless you can routinely hold everyone to an even worse 3 point shooting percentage.
Just hucking up a three pointer in the last few seconds of a possession is not an offense, it's a shoot-around. Movement is everything, passing AND cutting, driving in deep and kicking it out or hitting a trailing player if the layup isn't there will do a better job of getting better shots at the rim inside, and getting more wide open 3s on the outside, and hopefully we'll see the percentages bump up on both the inside and outside shots.
I see them feeding the inside players from time to time, but it's not usually in the scope of movement. Passing the ball into a covered Rataj or Bilodeau who suddenly find them covered by not only the kid that was guarding them but a 4-5 star 7 footer as well is not the kind of movement I'm hoping for. Having Taylor catch the ball in 3 point land then dribble up to 8-10 feet from the rim surrounded by 2-3 bigger players happens a lot, I think I've seen him score there once maybe, but I've seen a bunch of turnovers and near turnovers from that (for some reason to me is seems to be on his right side of the court more than his left, I'm wondering if he's actually better moving to his left or if it's more unexpected for a "righty" and it's given him some success).
A big chunk of our problem is the lack of a big inside presence, still, good ball movement could help with that. Andela's doing what he can when he's in, but injuries and fouls (many of the type that I think the other teams are doing but not getting called for) have been limiting his minutes. Rataj and Bilodeau are 2 of the better 6'8"-6'10" freshmen players I've ever seen at OSU, I think they will get nothing but better as time passes...but neither are true centers in my mind. If Gavin Marrs comes in next season and can become an inside threat to the tune of 8-12 points a game, that will immediately make everyone better - if we have an offense that doesn't rely on him coming out to shoot 3s. From his highlight videos he seems to move well and he's a very good ball handler and passer for a big kid, he could be a perfect fit for a motion offense. If Marial can get healthy and Ibekwe develops over time I'll look at that as a bonus.
I'm way more worried about showing offensive progress than winning 5-7 more games this season. This team is young. I think it's possible they could win a few more games, but what I'd really like to see is developing some motion in the offense, hopefully eliminating the 8-10 or more minute stretches without a field goal, learn how to inbounds successfully pretty much every time and be able to beat the press, along with continued development overall and eliminating as many mistakes as possible. Do that, and we'll be competitive. Some here seem to believe you can't be competitive unless you're winning, I think that's unrealistic with this young group. Competitive to me means playing obviously better teams close, holding on to leads most of the time if you get them, etc- do that this year and the wins will start to come next season. I can live with that.
This team is young and that should affect both the offense the defense. I'm looking for improvement.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Jan 20, 2023 15:14:23 GMT -8
I know Andela isn't 100%, but can't he play closer to 15 minutes than the single digits we've been seeing? Who cares if he fouls out? He's an effective presence when he's there. Because I agree lack of a true big man is hurting us. I'd love to see the young Canadian monster get more time. Maybe 10 minutes instead of 3-5.
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