|
Post by rmancarl on Dec 6, 2022 20:26:24 GMT -8
The defense today was really impressive. Bendu was so active on that end. She's got lightning quick hands and great instincts. She pushes the ball and got OSU in some advantage situations in transition. This team has done a solid job of keeping opponents of the free throw line. Jelena and Raegan had solid days against good competition in the post (Angel Jackson was a decent PAC-12 post player). Rough shooting days for Bendu, Talia, and AJ. I think the best starting five may be: Talia, Martha, Bendu, Raegan, and Jelena. I'd probably start Shalexxus over Raegan just to have a big coming off the bench. AJ seems to be two very different players against quality competition versus the weaker opponents. Very true on AJ. That was the case last season and seems to be the same this year. Overall, I think she has shown improvement, but she needs a breakthrough against quality opponents. Martha showed me a bit of Aleah Goodman in this game. She hit the 3 when open, hit a mid range jumper around a pic, and drove to the hoop once when the defense left the left side of the land open. I'm not expecting Martha to ever become the player Aleah became, but in this game, she showed promise of being able to contribute to the Beavers success.
|
|
|
Post by lotrader on Dec 7, 2022 7:10:20 GMT -8
Martha may never approach Aleah Goodman's contributions but here is where Martha demonstrated that she needs a lot of minutes at the PG/Wing: + capable ball handler that pushes the ball from backcourt to frontcourt creating 2v1, 3v2, etc + The other 4 OSU players move the ball better/faster when Martha is in the line-up + Martha can penetrate and excellent at finding the open player creating time for that player to set their feet and get off a decent shot + Martha plays excellent defense and moves her feet as well as anyone on our team + Martha demonstrated she can score at the basket, mid-range, and from 3 as rmancarl has previously pointed out + Martha plays with her head up at all times, sees the floor well, and can make the entry pass to our post players + Martha is a PG who can run the offense (like Aleah did for OSU). We don't have any real PGs on the team
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Dec 7, 2022 10:50:44 GMT -8
Martha may never approach Aleah Goodman's contributions but here is where Martha demonstrated that she needs a lot of minutes at the PG/Wing: + capable ball handler that pushes the ball from backcourt to frontcourt creating 2v1, 3v2, etc + The other 4 OSU players move the ball better/faster when Martha is in the line-up + Martha can penetrate and excellent at finding the open player creating time for that player to set their feet and get off a decent shot + Martha plays excellent defense and moves her feet as well as anyone on our team + Martha demonstrated she can score at the basket, mid-range, and from 3 as rmancarl has previously pointed out + Martha plays with her head up at all times, sees the floor well, and can make the entry pass to our post players + Martha is a PG who can run the offense (like Aleah did for OSU). We don't have any real PGs on the team Martha>>Noelle.
|
|
|
Post by 411500 on Dec 7, 2022 12:24:54 GMT -8
I think that most on this board believe that Martha has more game in general than Noelle... Even though our sample size is still small, Martha passes the eye test and the skill test with better marks than Noelle.
In the bigger picture, however, when you look at the Pac as a whole - which team is starting a point guard that doesn't stack up as better than Martha? Very few. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one. Although there probably is....
Bottom line: We are entering conference play weaker at point guard that at any time in the past 10 years.....That is going to make the season very, very tough on this team.
Sorry to be so bleak in my assessment. I'm a long-time fan and it hurts to say it - but thus far I've not seen much encouraging from this team....
At least not in terms of a team that sees itself as a top 4 or top 5 team in the Pac..... GO BEAVS!!
|
|
|
Post by speakthetruth on Dec 7, 2022 12:28:06 GMT -8
I think that most on this board believe that Martha has more game in general than Noelle... Even though our sample size is still small, Martha passes the eye test and the skill test with better marks than Noelle. In the bigger picture, however, when you look at the Pac as a whole - which team is starting a point guard that doesn't stack up as better than Martha? Very few. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one. Although there probably is.... Bottom line: We are entering conference play weaker at point guard that at any time in the past 10 years.....That is going to make the season very, very tough on this team. Sorry to be so bleak in my assessment. I'm a long-time fan and it hurts to say it - but thus far I've not seen much encouraging from this team.... At least not in terms of a team that sees itself as a top 4 or top 5 team in the Pac..... GO BEAVS!! You are correct.
|
|
|
Post by beaverwbb fan on Dec 7, 2022 13:43:44 GMT -8
I think that most on this board believe that Martha has more game in general than Noelle... Even though our sample size is still small, Martha passes the eye test and the skill test with better marks than Noelle. In the bigger picture, however, when you look at the Pac as a whole - which team is starting a point guard that doesn't stack up as better than Martha? Very few. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one. Although there probably is.... Bottom line: We are entering conference play weaker at point guard that at any time in the past 10 years.....That is going to make the season very, very tough on this team. Sorry to be so bleak in my assessment. I'm a long-time fan and it hurts to say it - but thus far I've not seen much encouraging from this team.... At least not in terms of a team that sees itself as a top 4 or top 5 team in the Pac..... GO BEAVS!! Not sure I'd say we're weaker than last year at PG. I'd probably take Bendu and Martha over Emily and Tea. Hopefully things will begin to improve next year with Kennedie and Donovyn.
|
|
|
Post by beaverstever on Dec 7, 2022 14:06:49 GMT -8
I think that most on this board believe that Martha has more game in general than Noelle... Even though our sample size is still small, Martha passes the eye test and the skill test with better marks than Noelle. In the bigger picture, however, when you look at the Pac as a whole - which team is starting a point guard that doesn't stack up as better than Martha? Very few. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one. Although there probably is.... Bottom line: We are entering conference play weaker at point guard that at any time in the past 10 years.....That is going to make the season very, very tough on this team. Sorry to be so bleak in my assessment. I'm a long-time fan and it hurts to say it - but thus far I've not seen much encouraging from this team.... At least not in terms of a team that sees itself as a top 4 or top 5 team in the Pac..... GO BEAVS!! I think that's a little unfair. Talia came in publicly stating she wanted to be OSU's PG. If we stacked her up against other PGs in conference, OSU comes out pretty good. The problem is, it's become clear that she's isn't best utilized at the PG. Add Bindu to the roster, and now you have two very talented guards that are both not true PGs. A lot of teams are in that boat - it's increasingly common to have combo/shooting guards run the point. I actually can't think of ANY true PG that Rueck's teams have had, in terms of the traditional definition. We've had some very good players that played that position, but they've generally been very good scorers that called their own numbers often (even often being our #1 scoring optioning general). Our final 4 team was really good because we had a ball distributor at the 5. Mit speaks like she wants to be that type of post, but her decision and execution aren't crisp enough to be effective in that role, at least yet. It's exciting to a lot of us for OSU to finally have a true PG on the roster, that has the potential to compete at the Pac-12 level. It's been a long time coming, for whatever reason. But asking her to be a starter this year - AND expecting a top 5 finish Pac-12 indeed doesn't seem reasonable. Unfortunately our alternative PG options this year aren't making us look like at in the upper tier of the conference either, so my opinion is that we should invest minutes into Martha's development now.
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Dec 7, 2022 16:43:53 GMT -8
I think that most on this board believe that Martha has more game in general than Noelle... Even though our sample size is still small, Martha passes the eye test and the skill test with better marks than Noelle. In the bigger picture, however, when you look at the Pac as a whole - which team is starting a point guard that doesn't stack up as better than Martha? Very few. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one. Although there probably is.... Bottom line: We are entering conference play weaker at point guard that at any time in the past 10 years.....That is going to make the season very, very tough on this team. Sorry to be so bleak in my assessment. I'm a long-time fan and it hurts to say it - but thus far I've not seen much encouraging from this team.... At least not in terms of a team that sees itself as a top 4 or top 5 team in the Pac..... GO BEAVS!! I think that's a little unfair. Talia came in publicly stating she wanted to be OSU's PG. If we stacked her up against other PGs in conference, OSU comes out pretty good. The problem is, it's become clear that she's isn't best utilized at the PG. Add Bindu to the roster, and now you have two very talented guards that are both not true PGs. A lot of teams are in that boat - it's increasingly common to have combo/shooting guards run the point. I actually can't think of ANY true PG that Rueck's teams have had, in terms of the traditional definition. We've had some very good players that played that position, but they've generally been very good scorers that called their own numbers often (even often being our #1 scoring optioning general). Our final 4 team was really good because we had a ball distributor at the 5. Mit speaks like she wants to be that type of post, but her decision and execution aren't crisp enough to be effective in that role, at least yet. It's exciting to a lot of us for OSU to finally have a true PG on the roster, that has the potential to compete at the Pac-12 level. It's been a long time coming, for whatever reason. But asking her to be a starter this year - AND expecting a top 5 finish Pac-12 indeed doesn't seem reasonable. Unfortunately our alternative PG options this year aren't making us look like at in the upper tier of the conference either, so my opinion is that we should invest minutes into Martha's development now. TVO is a natural two. That's her skill set. I would argue that Bendu's quickness, ball-handling and passing are certainly good enough to fit in as a true point guard. And she has high level defensive skills. Between Bendu and Martha, who is just now finding her sea legs as a college basketball player, I think the Beavers are just fine at PG and definitely in a better situation than last season. Destiny Slocum was a true point guard, I'm just not sure Rueck liked her tendency to sometimes become a sort of loose cannon. I don't buy into the PG is the problem for this team. I think the lack of consistent perimeter shooting has hurt to a much higher degree and that hasn't been because the passes to open players haven't happened.
|
|
|
Post by rmancarl on Dec 7, 2022 20:48:01 GMT -8
I think that most on this board believe that Martha has more game in general than Noelle... Even though our sample size is still small, Martha passes the eye test and the skill test with better marks than Noelle. In the bigger picture, however, when you look at the Pac as a whole - which team is starting a point guard that doesn't stack up as better than Martha? Very few. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one. Although there probably is.... Bottom line: We are entering conference play weaker at point guard that at any time in the past 10 years.....That is going to make the season very, very tough on this team. Sorry to be so bleak in my assessment. I'm a long-time fan and it hurts to say it - but thus far I've not seen much encouraging from this team.... At least not in terms of a team that sees itself as a top 4 or top 5 team in the Pac..... GO BEAVS!! I think that's a little unfair. Talia came in publicly stating she wanted to be OSU's PG. If we stacked her up against other PGs in conference, OSU comes out pretty good. The problem is, it's become clear that she's isn't best utilized at the PG. Add Bindu to the roster, and now you have two very talented guards that are both not true PGs. A lot of teams are in that boat - it's increasingly common to have combo/shooting guards run the point. I actually can't think of ANY true PG that Rueck's teams have had, in terms of the traditional definition. We've had some very good players that played that position, but they've generally been very good scorers that called their own numbers often (even often being our #1 scoring optioning general). Our final 4 team was really good because we had a ball distributor at the 5. Mit speaks like she wants to be that type of post, but her decision and execution aren't crisp enough to be effective in that role, at least yet. It's exciting to a lot of us for OSU to finally have a true PG on the roster, that has the potential to compete at the Pac-12 level. It's been a long time coming, for whatever reason. But asking her to be a starter this year - AND expecting a top 5 finish Pac-12 indeed doesn't seem reasonable. Unfortunately our alternative PG options this year aren't making us look like at in the upper tier of the conference either, so my opinion is that we should invest minutes into Martha's development now. Let me first say that I greatly respect the thoughts and insight of 411500. I agree with you though, that whoever you consider the 'point' guard this year, or who you consider the 'point' guard this year, the backcourt of Talia and Bendu is better than any combination last year. If we consider Tea the backup last season, I would consider her better than any backup's this season.........so far.....but if Martha could throw together a few more games like the last two, she could change my mind. It's so much tougher though when you get to Pac12 talent, and I'm not sure how Martha will do against that talent. If she were to average7- 8ppg the rest of the season, that would be a major boost to this team. Overall I agree somewhat with 411500's bleak assessment of this team, yet I stick by my guns in saying Talia and Bendu are better than the Talia and Emily last season, AJ is better than Greta last season, Jelena is better than Jelena last season, and Raegan is better than last season's Kennedy. Overall, Ellie and last year's bench were stronger than this year's group to date. Saying all of that, this team has more potential for improvement, and if Timea can live up to high expectations, they could be a tough out late this year, and very good next year. It all depends on development this season. I've seen growth already, but how far and fast they can grow this season is a wait and see for us. I would expect the Beavs to look overwhelmed against the ducks this week (hope I'm wrong) but much stronger when they face teams in February and March.
|
|
|
Post by willtalk on Dec 9, 2022 5:20:23 GMT -8
I think that's a little unfair. Talia came in publicly stating she wanted to be OSU's PG. If we stacked her up against other PGs in conference, OSU comes out pretty good. The problem is, it's become clear that she's isn't best utilized at the PG. Add Bindu to the roster, and now you have two very talented guards that are both not true PGs. A lot of teams are in that boat - it's increasingly common to have combo/shooting guards run the point. I actually can't think of ANY true PG that Rueck's teams have had, in terms of the traditional definition. We've had some very good players that played that position, but they've generally been very good scorers that called their own numbers often (even often being our #1 scoring optioning general). Our final 4 team was really good because we had a ball distributor at the 5. Mit speaks like she wants to be that type of post, but her decision and execution aren't crisp enough to be effective in that role, at least yet. It's exciting to a lot of us for OSU to finally have a true PG on the roster, that has the potential to compete at the Pac-12 level. It's been a long time coming, for whatever reason. But asking her to be a starter this year - AND expecting a top 5 finish Pac-12 indeed doesn't seem reasonable. Unfortunately our alternative PG options this year aren't making us look like at in the upper tier of the conference either, so my opinion is that we should invest minutes into Martha's development now. TVO is a natural two. That's her skill set. I would argue that Bendu's quickness, ball-handling and passing are certainly good enough to fit in as a true point guard. And she has high level defensive skills. Between Bendu and Martha, who is just now finding her sea legs as a college basketball player, I think the Beavers are just fine at PG and definitely in a better situation than last season. Destiny Slocum was a true point guard, I'm just not sure Rueck liked her tendency to sometimes become a sort of loose cannon. I don't buy into the PG is the problem for this team. I think the lack of consistent perimeter shooting has hurt to a much higher degree and that hasn't been because the passes to open players haven't happened. Having the body and skill set of a point guard means little if you have the mind set of a scoring guard. A point guards first priority is to get their teammates involved in the offense. They do not prioritize themselves at the expense of others. Just because a player is given the option of being the primary ball handler does not mean they are operating in the role of a point guard. Slocum, when she was at Maryland and Oregon St. was primarily using her possession of the ball to dribble herself into screens to facilitate her own skill set. Using picks and screens was her primary offensive option. In doing so she she ate up considerable clock so that when her own offensive options did not materialize, she passed the ball to her shooters whe were then forced to take dificult shots with the clock running down. The shooting percentages of the players on her team reflected a real drop in 3pt shooting percentage with her on the court. Only Mik in her Jr year did not have a considerable percentage drop compared to before Slocum was at point. However, it dropped like a rock her SR year and cost her big time in her draft position. Her off guard at Maryland dropped an entire 100 points from her previous year. A good PG would have the opposite effect. I am not implying that the point needs to eliminate their own offensive game. Not hardly, in fact they need to at least be able to hit from outside to keep the opposition from dropping of them. However, Slocum's scoring guard mindset was not conducive to utilizing the skills of the players aroundher. It was not just a coincidence that Oregon St over achieved until Slocum became the point.Then they suddenly became underachievers.
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Dec 9, 2022 5:52:16 GMT -8
Willtalk,
Thank you for your extremely perceptive and illuminating observations about the point guard situation.
|
|
|
Post by bennyskid on Dec 9, 2022 9:57:18 GMT -8
I was pretty down on Martha after the first couple games, but apparently she just needed a little time to adjust. I expect we'll see a few down games from her again when the Pac season gets going as she adjusts to Pac speed.
But based on the J-State game, I'd say Martha has the right balance. She has a point guard's vision and looks to set up her teammates first. But she is enough of a threat, both as a shooter and a driver, to keep defenses honest. I don't know if she'll be a star - I'm just optimistic that she'll be good enough that we won't spend all year complaining about the lack of true PG.
|
|
|
Post by lotrader on Dec 9, 2022 10:21:34 GMT -8
I was pretty down on Martha after the first couple games, but apparently she just needed a little time to adjust. I expect we'll see a few down games from her again when the Pac season gets going as she adjusts to Pac speed. But based on the J-State game, I'd say Martha has the right balance. She has a point guard's vision and looks to set up her teammates first. But she is enough of a threat, both as a shooter and a driver, to keep defenses honest. I don't know if she'll be a star - I'm just optimistic that she'll be good enough that we won't spend all year complaining about the lack of true PG. The other quality I am liking about Martha is that despite her height, she plays great position defense and has done a great job staying in front of her player. Martha also has great recognition when a screener is coming and either fights around the screen or switches with another OSU Defender at the right time. Her awareness on defense is not a surprise to me as I watched her games over the summer and knew she was ahead of typical incoming freshman. Martha's defense alone will earn her minutes. Hard to say how she will do in PAC-12 play against higher quality opponents, but so far Martha has surprised to the upside.
|
|
|
Post by sewingbeaver on Dec 9, 2022 17:55:35 GMT -8
Curious - how many of the other Pac-12 teams have "TRUE POINT GUARD"? Seems several play by committee.
GO BEAVS!
|
|
|
Post by believeinthebeavs on Dec 9, 2022 19:47:25 GMT -8
Curious - how many of the other Pac-12 teams have "TRUE POINT GUARD"? Seems several play by committee. GO BEAVS! While we are on the subject, what makes a true point guard? Obviously playing the position for years doesn't do it around here even if they win multiple state titles and player of the year awards.
|
|