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Post by irimi on Sept 27, 2022 21:23:52 GMT -8
So I have an honest question. Is it selfish or selfish to stop from getting the vaccine because you are afraid of the complications? I think it is selfish. I think it was selfless of the people who were the original guinea pigs we heard about shortly before the vaccine that we know came out. They were brave to risk everything for the advancement of medicine. I think those who got the vaccine and the boosters can be seen both as selfish (preserve their own life, protect themselves) and selfless (protect others, try to curb the pandemic). How exactly can refusing the vaccine be seen as anything but selfish? What are these people doing on behalf of the people around them? I still don't understand. For many people early on, they simply looked at the actual numbers of deaths as a percentage of the population, and said the hysteria being promulgated by big pharma, the government and the press didn't match what they actually saw. As a result, they decided it was unnecessary for them to get the shot. And many, out of the abundance of caution, stayed away from those they thought were truly vulnerable.
I think you are asking a very valid question, I just think the nature of a given virus, how deadly it actually is, who is affected, etc plays a large role in how to answer that question. If, for example, a really deadly virus were to rear it's ugly head, and there was a safe, effective vaccine (think Polio) that wasn't a new untested technology, I would agree it is important to get it. This being a Coronavirus, which means it is a variation of the common cold, the only way to get us to where we needed to be was herd immunity, since it will mutate faster than the vaccines can keep up. Which is why we have never been able to get a vaccine for the common cold. These new generations of chemistries were a shot in the dark, no pun intended, and they have not lived up to their billing. In addition, they have led to a lot of excess deaths around the world.
Even with your discussion about the common cold and Coronavirus—which isn’t exactly true—I can’t see how refusing the vaccine is selfless. Perhaps we are working with different definitions of selfish and selfless. But I don’t want to discuss this further, especially if it affords you an opportunity to continue to spread misinformation about Covid 19. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Sept 28, 2022 6:02:04 GMT -8
For many people early on, they simply looked at the actual numbers of deaths as a percentage of the population, and said the hysteria being promulgated by big pharma, the government and the press didn't match what they actually saw. As a result, they decided it was unnecessary for them to get the shot. And many, out of the abundance of caution, stayed away from those they thought were truly vulnerable.
I think you are asking a very valid question, I just think the nature of a given virus, how deadly it actually is, who is affected, etc plays a large role in how to answer that question. If, for example, a really deadly virus were to rear it's ugly head, and there was a safe, effective vaccine (think Polio) that wasn't a new untested technology, I would agree it is important to get it. This being a Coronavirus, which means it is a variation of the common cold, the only way to get us to where we needed to be was herd immunity, since it will mutate faster than the vaccines can keep up. Which is why we have never been able to get a vaccine for the common cold. These new generations of chemistries were a shot in the dark, no pun intended, and they have not lived up to their billing. In addition, they have led to a lot of excess deaths around the world.
Even with your discussion about the common cold and Coronavirus—which isn’t exactly true—I can’t see how refusing the vaccine is selfless. Perhaps we are working with different definitions of selfish and selfless. But I don’t want to discuss this further, especially if it affords you an opportunity to continue to spread misinformation about Covid 19. And some folks just don’t like needles. And will rationalize that deep aversion with whatever plausible-seeming “evidence” they can dig up. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 28, 2022 7:06:41 GMT -8
Even with your discussion about the common cold and Coronavirus—which isn’t exactly true—I can’t see how refusing the vaccine is selfless. Perhaps we are working with different definitions of selfish and selfless. But I don’t want to discuss this further, especially if it affords you an opportunity to continue to spread misinformation about Covid 19. And some folks just don’t like needles. And will rationalize that deep aversion with whatever plausible-seeming “evidence” they can dig up. Oh, I don't know - kinda pales in comparison to what Rolovich gave up:
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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 28, 2022 7:20:52 GMT -8
I am not sure I know the question I am answering, so I will say follow the money. Since the beginning of time, the rich/ powerful have been engaged in controlling and fleecing the masses. As to why the government would inject a vaccine into all of the people if not to protect them? I will leave that up to you to decide. Then your response is like a horse wearing blinders. You don’t trust the American government. OK. Maybe. Maybe it’s a political thing. Maybe it has something to do with 5g. Maybe it’s Bill Gates’ way of getting information from us. Maybe. But this reasoning falls apart if you look outside of the USA where people and governments also get the vaccine. Because other governments tend to follow the US. And their Chinese overlords - lol |
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Post by irimi on Sept 28, 2022 7:24:30 GMT -8
Then your response is like a horse wearing blinders. You don’t trust the American government. OK. Maybe. Maybe it’s a political thing. Maybe it has something to do with 5g. Maybe it’s Bill Gates’ way of getting information from us. Maybe. But this reasoning falls apart if you look outside of the USA where people and governments also get the vaccine. Because other governments tend to follow the US. And their Chinese overlords - lol ROTFLMAO You obviously haven't lived outside of the US, eh? Most countries out there do not think much of the US, particularly its government. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 28, 2022 8:01:37 GMT -8
Because other governments tend to follow the US. And their Chinese overlords - lol ROTFLMAO You obviously haven't lived outside of the US, eh? Most countries out there do not think much of the US, particularly its government. You are correct - I have not lived outside of the US, but know lots of people who have. And yes, the "ugly American" attitude is real, but mostly on the streets and among the general population - and for good reason. Leaders of countries, however, may not necessarily like the US, but they pay homage because of the size of our economy, and the thirst for US dollars - still the reserve currency for the world - at least for now. The US still has a huge impact on the rest of the world - some good, some bad. |
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Post by irimi on Sept 28, 2022 10:17:03 GMT -8
ROTFLMAO You obviously haven't lived outside of the US, eh? Most countries out there do not think much of the US, particularly its government. You are correct - I have not lived outside of the US, but know lots of people who have. And yes, the "ugly American" attitude is real, but mostly on the streets and among the general population - and for good reason. Leaders of countries, however, may not necessarily like the US, but they pay homage because of the size of our economy, and the thirst for US dollars - still the reserve currency for the world - at least for now. The US still has a huge impact on the rest of the world - some good, some bad. No, not like that, it does not. Countries like Australia and New Zealand would surely tell us to take a flying leap. Pretty sure France, Italy, Sweden would too. ESPECIALLY if the said vaccine jeopardized their citizens in any manner, other than inherent risks involved with most vaccines and medical procedures. No, the USA may have some pull, but many respectable countries make their own decisions. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 28, 2022 11:24:58 GMT -8
You are correct - I have not lived outside of the US, but know lots of people who have. And yes, the "ugly American" attitude is real, but mostly on the streets and among the general population - and for good reason. Leaders of countries, however, may not necessarily like the US, but they pay homage because of the size of our economy, and the thirst for US dollars - still the reserve currency for the world - at least for now. The US still has a huge impact on the rest of the world - some good, some bad. No, not like that, it does not. Countries like Australia and New Zealand would surely tell us to take a flying leap. Pretty sure France, Italy, Sweden would too. ESPECIALLY if the said vaccine jeopardized their citizens in any manner, other than inherent risks involved with most vaccines and medical procedures. No, the USA may have some pull, but many respectable countries make their own decisions. India, for example, is much smarter than our government is, when it comes to US corporate big Pharma:
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Post by irimi on Sept 28, 2022 12:35:00 GMT -8
No, not like that, it does not. Countries like Australia and New Zealand would surely tell us to take a flying leap. Pretty sure France, Italy, Sweden would too. ESPECIALLY if the said vaccine jeopardized their citizens in any manner, other than inherent risks involved with most vaccines and medical procedures. No, the USA may have some pull, but many respectable countries make their own decisions. India, for example, is much smarter than our government is, when it comes to US corporate big Pharma:
What's your point? This article actually shows that countries do make up their own minds about things. In fact, other countries, such as Japan, were slow to approve the vaccines. But in India 94% of the population has been vaccinated. So thank you for the support. As you can see, there was no great US conspiracy to inject some godawful stuff into every human possible. And by looking at what happened in other countries, you can see that the fuss made about it here was primarily along political lines. It wasn't selfless. It was selfish, driven by political misguidance, religious nonsense, or fear and distrust. As Americans, we should be better. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 28, 2022 14:38:07 GMT -8
India, for example, is much smarter than our government is, when it comes to US corporate big Pharma:
This article actually shows that countries do make up their own minds about things. In fact, other countries, such as Japan, were slow to approve the vaccines. But in India 94% of the population has been vaccinated. So thank you for the support. As you can see, there was no great US conspiracy to inject some godawful stuff into every human possible. And by looking at what happened in other countries, you can see that the fuss made about it here was primarily along political lines. It wasn't selfless. It was selfish, driven by political misguidance, religious nonsense, or fear and distrust. As Americans, we should be better. What's my point? US big Pharma tried to shove their "vaccines" on India, but without accepting any liability under a broad EUA. How convenient - India said no Bueno. Problem for big Pharma is with the current deep dive into documents they tried (Pfizer) to have sealed for 75 years, if it turns out they had negative internal clinical data they tried to hide, before releasing the vaccines - they may find the EUA doesn't shield them from liability. As insurance companies pay out damages for injury and death, this should be fun. Monsters fighting monsters.
There was no great US conspiracy - Hmmm - what is great about the test of time, is that which is hidden usually comes to light. We shall see.
As I said before - selfish or selfless - eye of the beholder. We can just agree to disagree. Go Beavs!
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Post by TheGlove on Sept 28, 2022 15:12:01 GMT -8
You guys need to find a new hobby.
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