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Post by beaverdude on May 26, 2022 9:11:19 GMT -8
This 18 year old murderer legally purchased 2 assault rifles and 375 rounds of ammo. In a state where the governor is promoting more gun purchases. He actually wants more guns available to everyone, with no restrictions. So it's his policy that allowed this to happen. On top of it, the police waited to intervene until the shooting stopped (reportedly). The "good guys with guns" refused to stop the bad guy with guns. Pathetic. Part of that legal purchase process was passing a background check. We know that the background check database is missing a lot of information. Mental health issues are not reported due to "privacy" concerns. Most offenses committed by minors are either sealed or not prosecuted (give the kid a break) and are excluded as well. The military has done a poor problem of reporting as well. All the suggested remedies won't solve the problem because criminals don't follow the law. This is a people problem. Parents need to step up and be parents. The schools need to be empowered to forward students for violence counseling and treatment. Reporting requirements to the background check database need to be codified and enforced. |
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Post by ag87 on May 26, 2022 9:34:20 GMT -8
This 18 year old murderer legally purchased 2 assault rifles and 375 rounds of ammo. In a state where the governor is promoting more gun purchases. He actually wants more guns available to everyone, with no restrictions. So it's his policy that allowed this to happen. On top of it, the police waited to intervene until the shooting stopped (reportedly). The "good guys with guns" refused to stop the bad guy with guns. Pathetic. Part of that legal purchase process was passing a background check. We know that the background check database is missing a lot of information. Mental health issues are not reported due to "privacy" concerns. Most offenses committed by minors are either sealed or not prosecuted (give the kid a break) and are excluded as well. The military has done a poor problem of reporting as well. All the suggested remedies won't solve the problem because criminals don't follow the law. This is a people problem. Parents need to step up and be parents. The schools need to be empowered to forward students for violence counseling and treatment. Reporting requirements to the background check database need to be codified and enforced. This is a people and firearm problem. The broad strokes are not that difficult. You know what they say about the details. But make it very difficult to buy a semi-automatic rifle (however you define an assault rifle). Make it less difficult to buy a regular hunting rifle and perhaps further less difficult to buy a personal protection pistol. Get some guns off the street immediately. In Australia after their horrible mass killing, the government bought back weapons, no questions asked. I heard this morning the USA has around 400 million guns. Maybe more than 10% could be out of circulation within a year of legislative action. There are solutions good people can find. |
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Post by lebaneaver on May 26, 2022 10:04:10 GMT -8
There are those here who would consider me a “bleeding heart liberal,” I’m certain, but I agree with Dude on this issue. Criminals will NOT (do not) follow the law. Minors info is not allowed on databases because of privacy laws, and our military has done a really s%#tty job of identifying those who may pose a threat to the public once discharged. We taught them how to kill (the enemy….foreign AND domestic), but failed to teach them to how to shut that instinct down. We fail our veterans in many ways. We also don’t have the guts, intelligence or moral compass to SHUT-DOWN social media disinformation/misinformation sites that EVERYONE can see pose a clear, present and proven danger….. all in the horse s%#t name of “free speech.” Too many parents should NEVER have been parents. Too many sexual predators should NEVER have been pastors/priests. Too many self-centered, egotistical, immoral narcissistic s%#t-heads should NEVER have been elected lawmakers. Too many hypocrites should NEVER claim to be Christians. It isn’t SIMPLY about guns, though that’s a part of it. It has become a MYRIAD of problems. We LACK moral clarity. Period.
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JFC
May 26, 2022 12:22:16 GMT -8
Post by fishwrapper on May 26, 2022 12:22:16 GMT -8
Criminals will NOT (do not) follow the law. This is true. What is also true is that in most states you are a law-abiding citizen if you leave a loaded handgun in your home where a child can get at it. Or a person with a mental or emotional disorder who shouldn't have access to it. Or a burglar picks up and uses down the road in the commission of a crime. Not all laws will prevent all gun deaths, and Oregon's SB554 wouldn't have prevented Tuesday. But we simply do not have enough laws on the books for law-abiding folks to follow to remove a number of firearms from being accessible for a range of other shooting scenarios. Remember, mass shootings are horrible, but there are far more suicides and preventable toddler-playing-with-a-gun deaths and shootings with easily stolen firearms each year that we're also not doing anything about. |
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Post by fishwrapper on May 26, 2022 12:24:25 GMT -8
I agree: any nation that can see a Sandy Hook...or pick any from the long, and growing list, all they way to Robb Elementary...and not do anything lacks moral clarity.
At least, those who are blocking any positive action lack it.
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JFC
May 26, 2022 12:49:53 GMT -8
Post by rgeorge on May 26, 2022 12:49:53 GMT -8
There are those here who would consider me a “bleeding heart liberal,” I’m certain, but I agree with Dude on this issue. Criminals will NOT (do not) follow the law. Minors info is not allowed on databases because of privacy laws, and our military has done a really s%#tty job of identifying those who may pose a threat to the public once discharged. We taught them how to kill (the enemy….foreign AND domestic), but failed to teach them to how to shut that instinct down. We fail our veterans in many ways. We also don’t have the guts, intelligence or moral compass to SHUT-DOWN social media disinformation/misinformation sites that EVERYONE can see pose a clear, present and proven danger….. all in the horse s%#t name of “free speech.” Too many parents should NEVER have been parents. Too many sexual predators should NEVER have been pastors/priests. Too many self-centered, egotistical, immoral narcissistic s%#t-heads should NEVER have been elected lawmakers. Too many hypocrites should NEVER claim to be Christians. It isn’t SIMPLY about guns, though that’s a part of it. It has become a MYRIAD of problems. We LACK moral clarity. Period. Indeed... and part of that reason... that most think we don't, as long as you think like them! It is an issue that should NOT have "sides". PERIOD |
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JFC
May 26, 2022 12:51:46 GMT -8
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Post by lebaneaver on May 26, 2022 12:51:46 GMT -8
Criminals will NOT (do not) follow the law. This is true. What is also true is that in most states you are a law-abiding citizen if you leave a loaded handgun in your home where a child can get at it. Or a person with a mental or emotional disorder who shouldn't have access to it. Or a burglar picks up and uses down the road in the commission of a crime. Not all laws will prevent all gun deaths, and Oregon's SB554 wouldn't have prevented Tuesday. But we simply do not have enough laws on the books for law-abiding folks to follow to remove a number of firearms from being accessible for a range of other shooting scenarios. Remember, mass shootings are horrible, but there are far more suicides and preventable toddler-playing-with-a-gun deaths and shootings with easily stolen firearms each year that we're also not doing anything about. If a law abiding citizen leaves a loaded gun for a toddler to have access to, he/she are idiots. If I’m not home, I LOCK my guns in a safe. If people are too lazy, cheap or stupid to do so…. therein lies just ONE of the problems. There are FAR too many guns, and many of those guns belong to, or are in the hands of people who have no business having them. THAT is the gun problem. Also….. don’t ever try to convince me that you have a second amendment right to a f%#*ing AR. That’s just horse s%#t. |
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JFC
May 26, 2022 12:55:27 GMT -8
Post by rgeorge on May 26, 2022 12:55:27 GMT -8
This is true. What is also true is that in most states you are a law-abiding citizen if you leave a loaded handgun in your home where a child can get at it. Or a person with a mental or emotional disorder who shouldn't have access to it. Or a burglar picks up and uses down the road in the commission of a crime. Not all laws will prevent all gun deaths, and Oregon's SB554 wouldn't have prevented Tuesday. But we simply do not have enough laws on the books for law-abiding folks to follow to remove a number of firearms from being accessible for a range of other shooting scenarios. Remember, mass shootings are horrible, but there are far more suicides and preventable toddler-playing-with-a-gun deaths and shootings with easily stolen firearms each year that we're also not doing anything about. If a law abiding citizen leaves a loaded gun for a toddler to have access to, he/she are idiots. If I’m not home, I LOCK my guns in a safe. If people are too lazy, cheap or stupid to do so…. therein lies just ONE of the problems. There are FAR too many guns, and many of those guns belong to, or are in the hands of people who have no business having them. THAT is the gun problem. Unfortunately, it's hard to legislate against your own kind! Especially when big $$ are involved. |
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JFC
May 26, 2022 15:18:36 GMT -8
Post by bucktoothvarmit on May 26, 2022 15:18:36 GMT -8
This is true. What is also true is that in most states you are a law-abiding citizen if you leave a loaded handgun in your home where a child can get at it. Or a person with a mental or emotional disorder who shouldn't have access to it. Or a burglar picks up and uses down the road in the commission of a crime. Not all laws will prevent all gun deaths, and Oregon's SB554 wouldn't have prevented Tuesday. But we simply do not have enough laws on the books for law-abiding folks to follow to remove a number of firearms from being accessible for a range of other shooting scenarios. Remember, mass shootings are horrible, but there are far more suicides and preventable toddler-playing-with-a-gun deaths and shootings with easily stolen firearms each year that we're also not doing anything about. If a law abiding citizen leaves a loaded gun for a toddler to have access to, he/she are idiots. If I’m not home, I LOCK my guns in a safe. If people are too lazy, cheap or stupid to do so…. therein lies just ONE of the problems. There are FAR too many guns, and many of those guns belong to, or are in the hands of people who have no business having them. THAT is the gun problem. Also….. don’t ever try to convince me that you have a second amendment right to a f%#*ing AR. That’s just horse s%#t. I won't try to convince you on a AR, (don't own/want one) but what about a 10/22 Ruger? By definition a semi automatic rifle that seems to be in everyone's cross hairs. |
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JFC
May 26, 2022 15:46:42 GMT -8
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Post by lebaneaver on May 26, 2022 15:46:42 GMT -8
If a law abiding citizen leaves a loaded gun for a toddler to have access to, he/she are idiots. If I’m not home, I LOCK my guns in a safe. If people are too lazy, cheap or stupid to do so…. therein lies just ONE of the problems. There are FAR too many guns, and many of those guns belong to, or are in the hands of people who have no business having them. THAT is the gun problem. Also….. don’t ever try to convince me that you have a second amendment right to a f%#*ing AR. That’s just horse s%#t. I won't try to convince you on a AR, (don't own/want one) but what about a 10/22 Ruger? By definition a semi automatic rifle that seems to be in everyone's cross hairs. There is NO QUESTION that the Ruger 10/22 is an “assault rifle.” By AR, I meant any assault rifle. Military and law enforcement personnel are the ONLY FOLKS with the training needed and MISSION having any business with these. I agree, it is only a few bad apples (like always) who spoil what may simply be a hobby for many….. but the unspeakable damage/terror they are capable of producing in such a short period of time in the wrong hands to innocent people, far OUTWEIGHS any “pleasure” or RIGHTS argument. |
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Post by irimi on May 26, 2022 15:48:06 GMT -8
If a law abiding citizen leaves a loaded gun for a toddler to have access to, he/she are idiots. If I’m not home, I LOCK my guns in a safe. If people are too lazy, cheap or stupid to do so…. therein lies just ONE of the problems. There are FAR too many guns, and many of those guns belong to, or are in the hands of people who have no business having them. THAT is the gun problem. Also….. don’t ever try to convince me that you have a second amendment right to a f%#*ing AR. That’s just horse s%#t. I won't try to convince you on a AR, (don't own/want one) but what about a 10/22 Ruger? By definition a semi automatic rifle that seems to be in everyone's cross hairs. The easy answer to this is: Imagine you are Christmas shopping at the mall with your wife and kiddos. A psycho, driven to nuts by the repetitiveness of holiday music, bursts into the mall (where you are at) with a gun. Do you want it to be the 10/22 Ruger or a bolt action rifle? |
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JFC
May 26, 2022 16:48:22 GMT -8
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beaver94 likes this
Post by bucktoothvarmit on May 26, 2022 16:48:22 GMT -8
You guys realize a 10/22 fires a 22 caliber rimfire. A plinking cartridge. Rather be hit twice with one them than a large caliber bolt action
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JFC
May 26, 2022 17:12:01 GMT -8
Post by irimi on May 26, 2022 17:12:01 GMT -8
You guys realize a 10/22 fires a 22 caliber rimfire. A plinking cartridge. Rather be hit twice with one them than a large caliber bolt action Then that's your answer. If you don't mind getting plinked twice from the mall shooter, who still can shoot your wife twice, and little Suzy and Junior twice each, with two more bullets leftover, then let's keep them. If you hesitate, then maybe we ought to add them to the ban list. |
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JFC
May 26, 2022 17:24:31 GMT -8
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Post by spudbeaver on May 26, 2022 17:24:31 GMT -8
I won't try to convince you on a AR, (don't own/want one) but what about a 10/22 Ruger? By definition a semi automatic rifle that seems to be in everyone's cross hairs. The easy answer to this is: Imagine you are Christmas shopping at the mall with your wife and kiddos. A psycho, driven to nuts by the repetitiveness of holiday music, bursts into the mall (where you are at) with a gun. Do you want it to be the 10/22 Ruger or a bolt action rifle? A .22 can kill you dead too. |
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JFC
May 26, 2022 17:42:40 GMT -8
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Post by rgeorge on May 26, 2022 17:42:40 GMT -8
This effing thread is off the n effing rails!!
Not only locked... delete it. It's flat out embarrassing.
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