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JFC
May 25, 2022 20:19:21 GMT -8
irimi likes this
Post by fishwrapper on May 25, 2022 20:19:21 GMT -8
I urge you to imagine what a nine-year-old's body looks like after being shot a dozen times by an AR rifle. Think about that tonight when you are quiet and having a moment with God. Spudbeaver asks who ag87 was posting/directing towards. I don't pretend to speak for ag87, but were I typing the above, I would want everyone to consider what a nine-year-old's body looks after being shot by an AR15 - or any firearm. Think about that and act. Because at some point in your life, when you're having your quiet moment with your god, she may ask: what did you do so that no more parents have to have that image of their child in their nightmares for the rest of their lives.
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JFC
May 25, 2022 20:23:32 GMT -8
Post by qbeaver on May 25, 2022 20:23:32 GMT -8
What can we do? No one wants to see this ever happen to any child. If the only way people got guns was through a trackable source and we could know if they had bad intentions and prevent them from aquiring that weapon,all of us would agree to that if it was simply a background check would be fine. That isn't realistic. It won't solve the problem imo.
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JFC
May 25, 2022 20:28:14 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by spudbeaver on May 25, 2022 20:28:14 GMT -8
Spudbeaver asks who ag87 was posting/directing towards. I don't pretend to speak for ag87, but were I typing the above, I would want everyone to consider what a nine-year-old's body looks after being shot by an AR15 - or any firearm. Think about that and act. Because at some point in your life, when you're having your quiet moment with your god, she may ask: what did you do so that no more parents have to have that image of their child in their nightmares for the rest of their lives. I did ask. Because I was one of the last posts. I asked because Ag said “posters here, whom I would probably like if we met in person, who say there's nothing we can do.” I wanted to make it crystal clear that I never said that, or anything like that. As close as I came was responding to irimi when I said something to the effect of that I’m sorry, because I don’t have a solution. My job and my life for decades has been finding solutions for all kinds of problems. I’m frustrated, because in this case I don’t have one. By the way, what specifically are YOU doing to “act” to stop people like this nut job in Texas from doing the unthinkable? I’d really like to know.
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Post by fishwrapper on May 25, 2022 20:29:57 GMT -8
Disclosure: I know the Wheelers from over a half century back; David was in HS plays with my brother, and I was close to David's younger brother Andy on the swim team. When I heard the news yesterday, I, like so many, flashed on Andy, and reached out to see how they were doing. It's been a tough week - the supermarket shooting last week induced its own PTSD - as does every shooting. School shootings make it worse. As you go back and forth blasting each other with your inanities, please try to remember: people lost their children. People have lost their mothers, brothers, sisters, uncles, and more. And so many of them are gone in the ten years now since Sandy Hook - and we're not any closer to reducing the number of preventable, avoidable firearm casualties than we were in December ten years ago. When Sandy Hook happened, the general consensus seemed to: enough already. Apparently not. And just a week before Andy lost his nephew Ben, a colleague of mine who was doing some Christmas shopping was too damn close to the line of fire in Clackamas Town Center. I'd gone through these pages, and I ask, please: go back and read your words as if you were David Wheeler. www.npr.org/2022/05/25/1101307665/sandy-hook-parent-explains-what-uvalde-families-need-from-us-right-nowThe "conversation" on these pages does not help. Seeing a lot of these words, in fact, hurts.
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Post by irimi on May 25, 2022 20:34:01 GMT -8
What can we do? No one wants to see this ever happen to any child. If the only way people got guns was through a trackable source and we could know if they had bad intentions and prevent them from aquiring that weapon,all of us would agree to that if it was simply a background check would be fine. That isn't realistic. It won't solve the problem imo. We start by getting rid of assault rifles, often used in such shootings. We require gun owners to license and register each gun. We do more training and education and testing for gun owners. Will it stop all school shootings? We gotta try.
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Post by ag87 on May 25, 2022 20:37:14 GMT -8
I don't understand this. A week ago (?) someone went into a grocery store and started killing random people. Yesterday, someone took a weapon of war to an elementary school and started slaughtering children. Yet we have posters here, whom I would probably like if we met in person, who say there's nothing we can do. Another person said compared to Honderous, our problem isn't that big. Today I read that cars kill more people. Ive read others that say the 2nd amendment prevents us from trying to fix this problem. I understand a US Senator is so in love with his job and the money from the NRA, that he/she will try to do anything to not stop the slaughter of children. But you, why do you say there is nothing we can do? Why do you try to rationalize this behavior. I urge you to imagine what a nine-year-old's body looks like after being shot a dozen times by an AR rifle. Think about that tonight when you are quiet and having a moment with God. Who are you responding/directing this post to? Everybody - including me. To be clear, I'm enormously flawed with a capital F.
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JFC
May 25, 2022 20:45:55 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by spudbeaver on May 25, 2022 20:45:55 GMT -8
Disclosure: I know the Wheelers from over a half century back; David was in HS plays with my brother, and I was close to David's younger brother Andy on the swim team. When I heard the news yesterday, I, like so many, flashed on Andy, and reached out to see how they were doing. It's been a tough week - the supermarket shooting last week induced its own PTSD - as does every shooting. School shootings make it worse. As you go back and forth blasting each other with your inanities, please try to remember: people lost their children. People have lost their mothers, brothers, sisters, uncles, and more. And so many of them are gone in the ten years now since Sandy Hook - and we're not any closer to reducing the number of preventable, avoidable firearm casualties than we were in December ten years ago. When Sandy Hook happened, the general consensus seemed to: enough already. Apparently not. And just a week before Andy lost his nephew Ben, a colleague of mine who was doing some Christmas shopping was too damn close to the line of fire in Clackamas Town Center. I'd gone through these pages, and I ask, please: go back and read your words as if you were David Wheeler. www.npr.org/2022/05/25/1101307665/sandy-hook-parent-explains-what-uvalde-families-need-from-us-right-nowThe "conversation" on these pages does not help. Seeing a lot of these words, in fact, hurts. I’m sorry about all that, and of course it’s terrible. However, you responded to me and said “Think about that and act.”. I asked, what specifically are you doing to act? Maybe if it’s something effective and you post it here, it will catch on and gain momentum. Because as I’ve clearly stated, I do not have a solution to offer.
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JFC
May 25, 2022 20:53:28 GMT -8
Post by fishwrapper on May 25, 2022 20:53:28 GMT -8
Spudbeaver,
Specifically: I have advocated to my representatives at the state and national level to pass laws that can improve safety - while, yes, allowing folks to exercise their right to responsibly bear arms if they so choose. I, personally, can't take credit for SB 554 that was passed last year and went into effect last September, but, thanks to that legislation, it is more likely that, say, handguns will be kept more securely in more places, out of reach of folks in a home with guns who may have mental illness, or may just be young, curious children.
Far more people are killed annually in suicides and preventable discharges (read: kids playing with an unsecured weapon) who would be alive today were there better tools to increase responsible ownership and storage of firearms. This bill addressed those deaths. Some shootings over the years were made possible by lax parental care of their firearms; perhaps murders of those types will be affected by that law.
If only one person who would have been killed by an unsecured or improperly stored firearm that made an impulse trigger pull possible, than that law is a success. I have a hunch more will be saved by it over the years than just one.
I have advocated over the years for mandatory background checks and variations of "red flag" laws; also for systems that allow these background checks to be more efficient and inclusive in a better national database.
I have helped victims of gun violence mourn and been there for them when they needed me. I feel lucky - I have been able to glimpse the impact of losing a loved one to this kind of violence, but my experience has all been second-hand. Back in the day when I was on the right coast, I witnessed this grief in Renny Cushing, who's father was murdered opening his front door to an off-duty police officer who lived in the neighborhood. I knew Renny from the Clamshell Alliance, and reported on numerous activities of his, and when his life was tossed upside down by his dad's murder, reported on that, too. His sharing was amazing, as was the work he devoted himself to afterward and his legislative career.
I give to causes that support pragmatic approaches to try to stem gun violence through the promotion of responsible firearm ownership. One topic I've been pushing for decades is the concept of getting insurance companies involved. Own a gun? get insurance - make it required. Hell, we have to have it for our cars, which someone earlier pointed out can be weapons, too. Want lower premiums? Get a gun safe and use it. (The nightstand is not a gun safe...).
I send cards and letters; some go to congresscritters, some go to friends. I have not given my entire life over to the topic of gun violence, as some have done - and some whom I know who have done so as their way of working through the grief.
I've learned a lot, too, over the years. As far as I can tell, the grief never dies. When Renny died this spring, I hope he finally found some peace, because I know he thought his dad was out there for him.
So, yeah, that's a few things, specifically, I've been up to. I've spent the better part of four full decades trying to get better laws on the books that might keep a few of these weapons away from the next nut job out there, be it in Texas...or Springfield. My first letters were to Warren Rudman and Gordon Humphrey asking them to support what we now know as the Brady Bill. And I'll keep writing.
Thanks for asking.
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JFC
May 25, 2022 20:54:33 GMT -8
Post by fishwrapper on May 25, 2022 20:54:33 GMT -8
Kind of out of order, as I was typing as other posts came in...
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Post by fishwrapper on May 25, 2022 20:57:30 GMT -8
Hey - if you want to do something to support victims - which is an action I would hope everyone can agree on - I endorse this organization: benslighthouse.org/But there are so many out there. More every year, sadly.
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JFC
May 25, 2022 21:03:14 GMT -8
via mobile
spudbeaver likes this
Post by nuclearbeaver on May 25, 2022 21:03:14 GMT -8
you liked your own post.... that got me good lolol
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Post by spudbeaver on May 25, 2022 21:07:49 GMT -8
Spudbeaver, Specifically: I have advocated to my representatives at the state and national level to pass laws that can improve safety - while, yes, allowing folks to exercise their right to responsibly bear arms if they so choose. I, personally, can't take credit for SB 554 that was passed last year and went into effect last September, but, thanks to that legislation, it is more likely that, say, handguns will be kept more securely in more places, out of reach of folks in a home with guns who may have mental illness, or may just be young, curious children. Far more people are killed annually in suicides and preventable discharges (read: kids playing with an unsecured weapon) who would be alive today were there better tools to increase responsible ownership and storage of firearms. This bill addressed those deaths. Some shootings over the years were made possible by lax parental care of their firearms; perhaps murders of those types will be affected by that law. If only one person who would have been killed by an unsecured or improperly stored firearm that made an impulse trigger pull possible, than that law is a success. I have a hunch more will be saved by it over the years than just one. I have advocated over the years for mandatory background checks and variations of "red flag" laws; also for systems that allow these background checks to be more efficient and inclusive in a better national database. I have helped victims of gun violence mourn and been there for them when they needed me. I feel lucky - I have been able to glimpse the impact of losing a loved one to this kind of violence, but my experience has all been second-hand. Back in the day when I was on the right coast, I witnessed this grief in Renny Cushing, who's father was murdered opening his front door to an off-duty police officer who lived in the neighborhood. I knew Renny from the Clamshell Alliance, and reported on numerous activities of his, and when his life was tossed upside down by his dad's murder, reported on that, too. His sharing was amazing, as was the work he devoted himself to afterward and his legislative career. I give to causes that support pragmatic approaches to try to stem gun violence through the promotion of responsible firearm ownership. One topic I've been pushing for decades is the concept of getting insurance companies involved. Own a gun? get insurance - make it required. Hell, we have to have it for our cars, which someone earlier pointed out can be weapons, too. Want lower premiums? Get a gun safe and use it. (The nightstand is not a gun safe...). I send cards and letters; some go to congresscritters, some go to friends. I have not given my entire life over to the topic of gun violence, as some have done - and some whom I know who have done so as their way of working through the grief. I've learned a lot, too, over the years. As far as I can tell, the grief never dies. When Renny died this spring, I hope he finally found some peace, because I know he thought his dad was out there for him. So, yeah, that's a few things, specifically, I've been up to. I've spent the better part of four full decades trying to get better laws on the books that might keep a few of these weapons away from the next nut job out there, be it in Texas...or Springfield. My first letters were to Warren Rudman and Gordon Humphrey asking them to support what we now know as the Brady Bill. And I'll keep writing. Thanks for asking. You have done a huge amount of work and I applaud you! Thank you for your efforts. That sounds like tough work, and more action than I would guess 99+% of the population does. Thank you again. I agree with background checks at all levels. They need to be enforced better. Red flag laws sound good but are too easily abused and manipulated by disgruntled exes and family members. Tough deal. You’re the first person that has offered concrete ideas to help find a solution. Again, props to you.
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Post by nuclearbeaver on May 25, 2022 21:09:55 GMT -8
What can we do? No one wants to see this ever happen to any child. If the only way people got guns was through a trackable source and we could know if they had bad intentions and prevent them from aquiring that weapon,all of us would agree to that if it was simply a background check would be fine. That isn't realistic. It won't solve the problem imo. you got responses but here’s a piece. Solving a problem some is better than none. Just because you make it better doesn’t mean you failed. This is an argument used constantly in politics over the last 30 years to kill bills. It’s a fallacy that things are all or nothing. Yeah in reality things usually change in degrees and in democractic politics it’s the only way things work, compromise.
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JFC
May 25, 2022 21:12:04 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by nuclearbeaver on May 25, 2022 21:12:04 GMT -8
Spudbeaver, Specifically: I have advocated to my representatives at the state and national level to pass laws that can improve safety - while, yes, allowing folks to exercise their right to responsibly bear arms if they so choose. I, personally, can't take credit for SB 554 that was passed last year and went into effect last September, but, thanks to that legislation, it is more likely that, say, handguns will be kept more securely in more places, out of reach of folks in a home with guns who may have mental illness, or may just be young, curious children. Far more people are killed annually in suicides and preventable discharges (read: kids playing with an unsecured weapon) who would be alive today were there better tools to increase responsible ownership and storage of firearms. This bill addressed those deaths. Some shootings over the years were made possible by lax parental care of their firearms; perhaps murders of those types will be affected by that law. If only one person who would have been killed by an unsecured or improperly stored firearm that made an impulse trigger pull possible, than that law is a success. I have a hunch more will be saved by it over the years than just one. I have advocated over the years for mandatory background checks and variations of "red flag" laws; also for systems that allow these background checks to be more efficient and inclusive in a better national database. I have helped victims of gun violence mourn and been there for them when they needed me. I feel lucky - I have been able to glimpse the impact of losing a loved one to this kind of violence, but my experience has all been second-hand. Back in the day when I was on the right coast, I witnessed this grief in Renny Cushing, who's father was murdered opening his front door to an off-duty police officer who lived in the neighborhood. I knew Renny from the Clamshell Alliance, and reported on numerous activities of his, and when his life was tossed upside down by his dad's murder, reported on that, too. His sharing was amazing, as was the work he devoted himself to afterward and his legislative career. I give to causes that support pragmatic approaches to try to stem gun violence through the promotion of responsible firearm ownership. One topic I've been pushing for decades is the concept of getting insurance companies involved. Own a gun? get insurance - make it required. Hell, we have to have it for our cars, which someone earlier pointed out can be weapons, too. Want lower premiums? Get a gun safe and use it. (The nightstand is not a gun safe...). I send cards and letters; some go to congresscritters, some go to friends. I have not given my entire life over to the topic of gun violence, as some have done - and some whom I know who have done so as their way of working through the grief. I've learned a lot, too, over the years. As far as I can tell, the grief never dies. When Renny died this spring, I hope he finally found some peace, because I know he thought his dad was out there for him. So, yeah, that's a few things, specifically, I've been up to. I've spent the better part of four full decades trying to get better laws on the books that might keep a few of these weapons away from the next nut job out there, be it in Texas...or Springfield. My first letters were to Warren Rudman and Gordon Humphrey asking them to support what we now know as the Brady Bill. And I'll keep writing. Thanks for asking. You have done a huge amount of work and I applaud you! Thank you for your efforts. That sounds like tough work, and more action than I would guess 99+% of the population does. Thank you again. I agree with background checks at all levels. They need to be enforced better. Red flag laws sound good but are too easily abused and manipulated by disgruntled exes and family members. Tough deal. You’re the first person that has offered concrete ideas to help find a solution. Again, props to you. I may have missed it, what was the issue with insurance?
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JFC
May 25, 2022 21:14:37 GMT -8
Post by qbeaver on May 25, 2022 21:14:37 GMT -8
What can we do? No one wants to see this ever happen to any child. If the only way people got guns was through a trackable source and we could know if they had bad intentions and prevent them from aquiring that weapon,all of us would agree to that if it was simply a background check would be fine. That isn't realistic. It won't solve the problem imo. We start by getting rid of assault rifles, often used in such shootings. We require gun owners to license and register each gun. We do more training and education and testing for gun owners. Will it stop all school shootings? We gotta try. I don't disagree we need to try to do something,but it's a tremendously complex issue. The law abiding citizens will jump through the hoops to do what they need to do. It's the others who concern me. There is no way of knowing who is safe to acquire weapons. There are red flags all the time of individuals who are of concern to do something sickening like this. There are just so many ways to acquire a weapon legally or not. There are probably 500 million guns in this country. I'm for trying something,but somewhat pessimistic of the results.
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