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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 26, 2022 9:26:07 GMT -8
I swear not long ago somebody said when an extension happens everyone gets three years. Now 2 would have been enough? Interesting.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Mar 26, 2022 9:47:11 GMT -8
Not sure about that, that's how we go Faulkner, who was a great recruiter. But, Eric was a much better coach. I knew Eric personally as a kid. Great family friend. One of the most genuinely nice people I've ever met. Heckuva player back in the day too btw
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 26, 2022 10:11:39 GMT -8
I swear not long ago somebody said when an extension happens everyone gets three years. Now 2 would have been enough? Interesting. There was zero need for an extension. The "you have to do it because it shows OSU is committed..." is well, BS. And, funny some of those and similar comments come from the "we can't hire anyone better crowd". Hence, the need for such a public message?? Basically the AD and staff just had to evaluate: - WT was not a hit or even luke warm commodity. And his buyout wasn't such that an extension would matter to those interested; - the team was in the throes of a complete leadership turnover. There was no depth and only one solid potential recruit/transfer; - a "wait and see" conversation with a pay bump, add in Covid $$ lost, etc was an easy fix; - the complaints of poor team chemistry, discipline, favoritism has been a theme throughout WT's tenure. It's been ignored; The AD's responsibility is to the University. Period. It's not to haphazardly grant an extension, commit $$ to a coach who has had an uneven career since his hiring. It's not about JUST the E8 appearance. It's a complete overview of the body of work, state of the program, and the necessity for such a financial commitment. The questioning of said extension is not a 20/20 hindsight issue. Most fans here (those posting... which are an extreme minority of the actual fan base) were so happy to have any type of success tossing more $$ at the coach was an easy decision. But, it was just as painfully obvious the program was not in good shape. That no matter what label you wanted to put on the season, is was an outlier in every way shape or form. To say Covid did not have an effect on every team and the season as a whole is farcical. And, it is equally comical that one of the "excuses" posted here throughout the season is how Covid may have effected our recruiting. Really? There's no concession that during high points of the pandemic game results and the overall impact has zero to do with OSU's successes, but it had some adverse effect and may have helped cause a 3-28 debacle. Just as WT supporters ALWAYS wanted to do coach comparisons as some definitive proof of his success. Of course ignoring, or somehow excusing his lackluster record as it sunk to the depths of those terrible coaches he was so often compared. It was always something that was not in WT's control. But, said reasoning only applied to the poor seasons?! Never did supporters address, or want to, the overall state of the program. The consistent rumors of favoritism that even lead WT to comment about son making recruiting difficult. The wholly lackluster inferior recruiting was routinely passed off as "who could OSU possibly get to come here..." (Sounded very similar to coaching hires?) The inferior player development... yep, I am pretty sure I've never heard to many supportive words in that area either. So, now let us add some more lack of discipline issues, coupled with players faking being injured as to not play!! By the way... these are not new issues caused by a frustrating season. Exacerbated by, but not caused. My guess is that WT was forced to make staff changes. That ST was reassigned due to money/contract issue and will also be let go or he'll find another job before that. If so, and coaching insiders will know, it'll be very difficult to find quality assistants to come into a program. Staff changes after such a horrible season is usually step one of a coach that is "dead man walking". Sounds like a program on solid footing. One that can easily move forward and be successful.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Mar 26, 2022 11:02:48 GMT -8
Imo some tend to overestimate the impact assistant coaches have on player development. I have observed hundreds of hours of perhaps a couple of dozen D1 coaches run a practice - you used to be able to do that before the internet, especially if you told the staff that you were a High School coach. It obviously varies but to a large extent the head coach does most of the teaching and coaching during a practice (Ralph was an exception).
The assistants are usually the ones who have done the scouting report on the upcoming opponent and go through the game plan with the team. The assistants also work with position groups during skill development drills. The drills that they use are the same or similar from program to program, the same ones they teach at coaching clinics or that you can learn online or read about. Obviously, the assistant has to know the game at a high level and understand how to develop a player's skills. But there is no magic formula for player development, much of it comes down to practicing the skills that will improve your game, having the physical talent to improve and how hard you are willing to work.
The best players tend to be the ones who are the first in the gym and the last to leave. It is not rocket science, a player has to be willing to put in hundreds of hours of work each year to develop their game both in season and out of season. I think if you asked most coaches, they would say that the most important aspect of player development is how hard a player is willing to work on their game. Many players now have personal trainers/development coaches who they use in the offseason. I am not saying that some coaches are not better at player development then others, but I think it is too simplistic to say that so and so coach is good at player development, and another is bad at it, when in actuality there are a number of variables that are beyond a coach's control.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 26, 2022 13:58:24 GMT -8
But, Eric was a much better coach. I knew Eric personally as a kid. Great family friend. One of the most genuinely nice people I've ever met. Heckuva player back in the day too btw One of the nicest people I’ve known as well. Great guy.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 26, 2022 14:06:32 GMT -8
I swear not long ago somebody said when an extension happens everyone gets three years. Now 2 would have been enough? Interesting. There was zero need for an extension. The "you have to do it because it shows OSU is committed..." is well, BS. And, funny some of those and similar comments come from the "we can't hire anyone better crowd". Hence, the need for such a public message?? Basically the AD and staff just had to evaluate: - WT was not a hit or even luke warm commodity. And his buyout wasn't such that an extension would matter to those interested; - the team was in the throes of a complete leadership turnover. There was no depth and only one solid potential recruit/transfer; - a "wait and see" conversation with a pay bump, add in Covid $$ lost, etc was an easy fix; - the complaints of poor team chemistry, discipline, favoritism has been a theme throughout WT's tenure. It's been ignored; The AD's responsibility is to the University. Period. It's not to haphazardly grant an extension, commit $$ to a coach who has had an uneven career since his hiring. It's not about JUST the E8 appearance. It's a complete overview of the body of work, state of the program, and the necessity for such a financial commitment. The questioning of said extension is not a 20/20 hindsight issue. Most fans here (those posting... which are an extreme minority of the actual fan base) were so happy to have any type of success tossing more $$ at the coach was an easy decision. But, it was just as painfully obvious the program was not in good shape. That no matter what label you wanted to put on the season, is was an outlier in every way shape or form. To say Covid did not have an effect on every team and the season as a whole is farcical. And, it is equally comical that one of the "excuses" posted here throughout the season is how Covid may have effected our recruiting. Really? There's no concession that during high points of the pandemic game results and the overall impact has zero to do with OSU's successes, but it had some adverse effect and may have helped cause a 3-28 debacle. Just as WT supporters ALWAYS wanted to do coach comparisons as some definitive proof of his success. Of course ignoring, or somehow excusing his lackluster record as it sunk to the depths of those terrible coaches he was so often compared. It was always something that was not in WT's control. But, said reasoning only applied to the poor seasons?! Never did supporters address, or want to, the overall state of the program. The consistent rumors of favoritism that even lead WT to comment about son making recruiting difficult. The wholly lackluster inferior recruiting was routinely passed off as "who could OSU possibly get to come here..." (Sounded very similar to coaching hires?) The inferior player development... yep, I am pretty sure I've never heard to many supportive words in that area either. So, now let us add some more lack of discipline issues, coupled with players faking being injured as to not play!! By the way... these are not new issues caused by a frustrating season. Exacerbated by, but not caused. My guess is that WT was forced to make staff changes. That ST was reassigned due to money/contract issue and will also be let go or he'll find another job before that. If so, and coaching insiders will know, it'll be very difficult to find quality assistants to come into a program. Staff changes after such a horrible season is usually step one of a coach that is "dead man walking". Sounds like a program on solid footing. One that can easily move forward and be successful. If you didn’t give him some sort of extension after an Elite 8 run, good luck hiring a coach in the future. Coaching candidates would not look favorable toward a school that did nothing in that situation. The first extension was probably more questionable than the last one. Despite the “circumstances”, any coach that makes that kind of run deserves something. Maybe just not that many years. Coaches used to say they needed 5-6 years on their contracts in order to recruit, but I’m not sure that’s the case anymore as the players are not staying at the same school for more than 2-3 years.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 26, 2022 16:11:06 GMT -8
I wonder how many coaches in the last couple decades with only 2 years or less left on their contracts that have made the final 8 haven't been extended? I'd bet that's a very small club if any.
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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 26, 2022 19:35:15 GMT -8
Please help me out. Supposedly it's impossible for us to get a new head coach for say 6 years 15 million but a head coach at a lower division school or an assistant at another school is willing to leave the job they have and come here for a year.
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Post by lebaneaver on Mar 26, 2022 21:21:39 GMT -8
Rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic The PERFECT allusionary analogy!!
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Post by jdogge on Mar 26, 2022 22:29:54 GMT -8
I'm just waiting for some of these armchair coaches to show us how it's done. Another famous retort. Well done… You're welcome.
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Post by beaverinohio on Mar 30, 2022 8:32:42 GMT -8
Any word yet on who WT is reaching out to for the two open spots? Obviously getting guys in that can recruit bring in good recruits is important, but I also want them to be recruiting more. One thing I’ve noticed is that the Beavers don’t seem to put out as many offers as other schools. I know 24/7 isn’t entirely accurate and is probably more so the better the team is — and how many open roster spots will also impact number of offers that go out. But looking over the offer lists for some Pac 12 teams for the last 6 recruiting classes (2022-2017), it is really astounding how far OSU lags behind. 24/7 shows the Beavs with 86 offers during that span with 22 and 17 being the two most offers in any one year. By comparison, Arizona has given out 186 offers in that span and had 29 or more offers every year but one. WSU has had 165 offers with every year during that span extending at least 17 offers each year and two of the years making 35+ offers. Washington has extended only 117 offers in those 6 years, but only one year with less than 17.
I don’t know if this is indicates a different recruiting philosophy by WT, just word not getting to 24/7 about offers, or the staff just isn’t working hard enough or doesn’t have the resources to recruit more. In today’s college basketball landscape, I think lower amount of offers doesn’t just impact that year’s recruiting but future years. With the transfer portal, quality 3 star players who are seniors in HS are having some difficulty finding landing spots at P5 schools — especially the better schools — as they turn to transfers to fill holes. That means schools in smaller conferences are in some ways almost acting as farm teams for P5 schools. Those players who can’t find spots are going to smaller schools and once they’ve put up good numbers looking to move up through the transfer portal. Seems to me having relationships with those players already would help when they hit the transfer portal down the road.
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Post by ochobeavo on Mar 30, 2022 8:59:22 GMT -8
Any word yet on who WT is reaching out to for the two open spots? Obviously getting guys in that can recruit bring in good recruits is important, but I also want them to be recruiting more. One thing I’ve noticed is that the Beavers don’t seem to put out as many offers as other schools. I know 24/7 isn’t entirely accurate and is probably more so the better the team is — and how many open roster spots will also impact number of offers that go out. But looking over the offer lists for some Pac 12 teams for the last 6 recruiting classes (2022-2017), it is really astounding how far OSU lags behind. 24/7 shows the Beavs with 86 offers during that span with 22 and 17 being the two most offers in any one year. By comparison, Arizona has given out 186 offers in that span and had 29 or more offers every year but one. WSU has had 165 offers with every year during that span extending at least 17 offers each year and two of the years making 35+ offers. Washington has extended only 117 offers in those 6 years, but only one year with less than 17. I don’t know if this is indicates a different recruiting philosophy by WT, just word not getting to 24/7 about offers, or the staff just isn’t working hard enough or doesn’t have the resources to recruit more. In today’s college basketball landscape, I think lower amount of offers doesn’t just impact that year’s recruiting but future years. With the transfer portal, quality 3 star players who are seniors in HS are having some difficulty finding landing spots at P5 schools — especially the better schools — as they turn to transfers to fill holes. That means schools in smaller conferences are in some ways almost acting as farm teams for P5 schools. Those players who can’t find spots are going to smaller schools and once they’ve put up good numbers looking to move up through the transfer portal. Seems to me having relationships with those players already would help when they hit the transfer portal down the road. So you are operating under the assumption that WT has an actual recruiting philosophy?
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Post by beaverinohio on Mar 30, 2022 9:09:02 GMT -8
Any word yet on who WT is reaching out to for the two open spots? Obviously getting guys in that can recruit bring in good recruits is important, but I also want them to be recruiting more. One thing I’ve noticed is that the Beavers don’t seem to put out as many offers as other schools. I know 24/7 isn’t entirely accurate and is probably more so the better the team is — and how many open roster spots will also impact number of offers that go out. But looking over the offer lists for some Pac 12 teams for the last 6 recruiting classes (2022-2017), it is really astounding how far OSU lags behind. 24/7 shows the Beavs with 86 offers during that span with 22 and 17 being the two most offers in any one year. By comparison, Arizona has given out 186 offers in that span and had 29 or more offers every year but one. WSU has had 165 offers with every year during that span extending at least 17 offers each year and two of the years making 35+ offers. Washington has extended only 117 offers in those 6 years, but only one year with less than 17. I don’t know if this is indicates a different recruiting philosophy by WT, just word not getting to 24/7 about offers, or the staff just isn’t working hard enough or doesn’t have the resources to recruit more. In today’s college basketball landscape, I think lower amount of offers doesn’t just impact that year’s recruiting but future years. With the transfer portal, quality 3 star players who are seniors in HS are having some difficulty finding landing spots at P5 schools — especially the better schools — as they turn to transfers to fill holes. That means schools in smaller conferences are in some ways almost acting as farm teams for P5 schools. Those players who can’t find spots are going to smaller schools and once they’ve put up good numbers looking to move up through the transfer portal. Seems to me having relationships with those players already would help when they hit the transfer portal down the road. So you are operating under the assumption that WT has an actual recruiting philosophy? I knew someone would jump on that. 😁
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Post by fridaynightlights on Mar 30, 2022 9:10:34 GMT -8
Potential assistant coaching hires surely know that it is likely a one-year gig, as there is a good chance WT won't be around after next season. This will obviously limit the number of quality candidates available. But for someone it will be worth taking the job to build their resume and a years' experience coaching in a major conference.
The April signing period is just a few weeks away so the new assistants will have little impact on the 22-recruiting class, maybe they can impact transfer recruiting. Point being - new assistants would have more impact on the 2023 seasons/classes and beyond, unfortunately there is a good chance they won't be at OSU for more than the coming season. Most likely a case of too little too late...
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 30, 2022 9:18:30 GMT -8
Potential assistant coaching hires surely know that it is likely a one-year gig, as there is a good chance WT won't be around after next season. This will obviously limit the number of quality candidates available. But for someone it will be worth taking the job to build their resume and a years' experience coaching in a major conference. The April signing period is just a few weeks away so the new assistants will have little impact on the 22-recruiting class, maybe they can impact transfer recruiting. Point being - new assistants would have more impact on the 2023 seasons/classes and beyond, unfortunately there is a good chance they won't be at OSU for more than the coming season. Most likely a case of too little too late... The only real impact a new assistant could have is if they are bringing players "with" them, transfers or high school coach convincing a kid to follow him. Which in and of itself can be a tricky slope to navigate. With all that has gone on, the one thing WT can not have happen is any hint of impropriety. One of his positive qualities is that he seems like a man who is above board in terms of recruiting and academic standards.
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