escott58
Sophomore
Posts: 1,271
Grad Year: 1983
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Post by escott58 on Mar 26, 2022 12:51:44 GMT -8
How do you not "allow all of these things to go on" during one's watch? It's all fine and dandy to say you'd stop it, but how? Forcing a 20 year old to have a personality change isn't super easy. Essentially "firing" three kids part way into a season when you're already short handed due to actual injuries isn't necessarily the easiest thing to do. It's not like a job where you can hire a replacement the next day or week. If a kid doesn't want to play and feigns injury, what do you do? Put him on the floor anyway and jeopardize games or have accusations of coaches forcing them to play injured? Sounds like two of the three fit that description. Sounds like they really blew it on some of the recruits, hopefully that'll never happen again, but there's probably no set method of mid-season fixes for that type of situation. Retaining those particular kids for next season would probably be a sign of a coaching problem more than being unable to repair the situation in the midst of a season would. I'd like to think they can turn it around, however it was kind of a wasted year, gonna be difficult. Hopefully next season brings substantial improvement in both attitudes and results. I totally get its not an easy situation when players aren't complying. Its not about taking the easy way hopefully. When the season began there were players openly defying the head coach himself literally in front of the team (and using 4 letter words you'd never get away w/ at a regular job to your boss) and skipping mandatory workouts and starting fights w/ other players. At that point you don't worry what will happen if you don't keep them on. You SHOULD be worrying about what will happen if you DO keep them. And we sure found out. We had plenty of players when the season started when the incidents first happened. Lets be honest......Name one good head coach in the country who you would expect to put up w/ behavior like that from multiple newcomers in their program. (Well one besides ours). If he had tried suspensions and/or punishments, benching them or something, then you chalk it up to just bad recruiting and move on. None of those things happened and that's the main reason the behaviors only got worse and not better from what I was told. That's why we all saw the lack of team work and why the team played so far below their talent level all season. No, this team wasn't that good, but they dang well shouldn't have been the worst in OSU history by any means. Wow. Just wow. I sure hope we can right the ship again.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Mar 26, 2022 13:39:51 GMT -8
I do too. But nothing is going to get better if the top man isn't going to do his job and hold people accountable. Hey I remember being in college. That is DEFINITELY an age where people need accountability in their lives. (I know I sure as heck did lol)
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Post by hawksea on Mar 26, 2022 14:08:32 GMT -8
Here's an example: 35 year old guy who has been a HS head coach for five years at some random west coast high school. You make 60k per year. You love coaching but are ambivalent about the history classes you have to teach. Your high school basketball program is really starting to roll now because you can motivate and coach. You know Tinkle a little because one of your players had been recruited. Things progress and you are offered a two-year deal at $135k per. What do you do? It's your chance to become a coach instead of a teacher/coach. I'd think even a lot of lower division college head coaches would consider being an assistant in the Pac-10 a step up. Their assistants certainly would. I suspect there's a lot of coaches out there that would consider it worth the risk if they're thinking about resume building. Bring in Gary Payton as one of the new assistants!
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 26, 2022 15:03:03 GMT -8
I'd think even a lot of lower division college head coaches would consider being an assistant in the Pac-10 a step up. Their assistants certainly would. I suspect there's a lot of coaches out there that would consider it worth the risk if they're thinking about resume building. Bring in Gary Payton as one of the new assistants! I'd thought that an interesting possibility as far as name value. Not so sure as far as the actual coaching experience goes just yet, I'm having a tough time finding any results from his first season. It may be a while before he makes a jump into this level of coaching, if that's what he even wants. He may be quite happy in Oakland.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 26, 2022 15:07:17 GMT -8
I'd think even a lot of lower division college head coaches would consider being an assistant in the Pac-10 a step up. Their assistants certainly would. I suspect there's a lot of coaches out there that would consider it worth the risk if they're thinking about resume building. Bring in Gary Payton as one of the new assistants! I thought we wanted discipline and our kids to actually attend class. I had a class with Gary. He showed up the first day and I never saw him again in that class. Amazing how he aced it.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 26, 2022 18:42:35 GMT -8
What great Asst Coaches do you think are going to want to jump into this dumpster fire? Hey, we're Oregon State, it's been a dumpster fire since the early '90s but good coaches want to come here! I hear that on this message board all of the time. Sounds a lot like St. Peter's. How's that working out?
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Post by seastape on Mar 27, 2022 8:12:37 GMT -8
How do you not "allow all of these things to go on" during one's watch? It's all fine and dandy to say you'd stop it, but how? Forcing a 20 year old to have a personality change isn't super easy. Essentially "firing" three kids part way into a season when you're already short handed due to actual injuries isn't necessarily the easiest thing to do. It's not like a job where you can hire a replacement the next day or week. If a kid doesn't want to play and feigns injury, what do you do? Put him on the floor anyway and jeopardize games or have accusations of coaches forcing them to play injured? Sounds like two of the three fit that description. Sounds like they really blew it on some of the recruits, hopefully that'll never happen again, but there's probably no set method of mid-season fixes for that type of situation. Retaining those particular kids for next season would probably be a sign of a coaching problem more than being unable to repair the situation in the midst of a season would. I'd like to think they can turn it around, however it was kind of a wasted year, gonna be difficult. Hopefully next season brings substantial improvement in both attitudes and results. I totally get its not an easy situation when players aren't complying. Its not about taking the easy way hopefully. When the season began there were players openly defying the head coach himself literally in front of the team (and using 4 letter words you'd never get away w/ at a regular job to your boss) and skipping mandatory workouts and starting fights w/ other players. At that point you don't worry what will happen if you don't keep them on. You SHOULD be worrying about what will happen if you DO keep them. And we sure found out. We had plenty of players when the season started when the incidents first happened. Lets be honest......Name one good head coach in the country who you would expect to put up w/ behavior like that from multiple newcomers in their program. (Well one besides ours). If he had tried suspensions and/or punishments, benching them or something, then you chalk it up to just bad recruiting and move on. None of those things happened and that's the main reason the behaviors only got worse and not better from what I was told. That's why we all saw the lack of team work and why the team played so far below their talent level all season. No, this team wasn't that good, but they dang well shouldn't have been the worst in OSU history by any means. I see this post and the similar one before this from another poster and combine it with the fact that Davis was the first one to hit the portal...it causes me to speculate that perhaps Hunt could see himself losing his PG position to an A.H. like Davis and thinking to himself that he's outta here. Pure speculation but it makes some sense. If it is true that there were several players acting up and defying the coaches and causing fights with other players, than Tinkle really blew it by letting it slide. That is a horrendous piece of coaching. I think of a coach as someone who teaches not only the sport but life lessons as well and Tinkle, if all this is true, failed miserably in that regard and the product on the floor reflected that failure.
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Post by spudbeaver on Mar 27, 2022 8:35:35 GMT -8
I totally get its not an easy situation when players aren't complying. Its not about taking the easy way hopefully. When the season began there were players openly defying the head coach himself literally in front of the team (and using 4 letter words you'd never get away w/ at a regular job to your boss) and skipping mandatory workouts and starting fights w/ other players. At that point you don't worry what will happen if you don't keep them on. You SHOULD be worrying about what will happen if you DO keep them. And we sure found out. We had plenty of players when the season started when the incidents first happened. Lets be honest......Name one good head coach in the country who you would expect to put up w/ behavior like that from multiple newcomers in their program. (Well one besides ours). If he had tried suspensions and/or punishments, benching them or something, then you chalk it up to just bad recruiting and move on. None of those things happened and that's the main reason the behaviors only got worse and not better from what I was told. That's why we all saw the lack of team work and why the team played so far below their talent level all season. No, this team wasn't that good, but they dang well shouldn't have been the worst in OSU history by any means. I see this post and the similar one before this from another poster and combine it with the fact that Davis was the first one to hit the portal...it causes me to speculate that perhaps Hunt could see himself losing his PG position to an A.H. like Davis and thinking to himself that he's outta here. Pure speculation but it makes some sense. If it is true that there were several players acting up and defying the coaches and causing fights with other players, than Tinkle really blew it by letting it slide. That is a horrendous piece of coaching. I think of a coach as someone who teaches not only the sport but life lessons as well and Tinkle, if all this is true, failed miserably in that regard and the product on the floor reflected that failure. Like Coach Juwan Howard does.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Mar 27, 2022 10:09:06 GMT -8
Haha true! But even he got disciplined. Then again, Tinkle wasn’t in charge of him or he wouldn’t have been
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Post by nabeav on Mar 27, 2022 16:04:26 GMT -8
Hey, we're Oregon State, it's been a dumpster fire since the early '90s but good coaches want to come here! I hear that on this message board all of the time. Sounds a lot like St. Peter's. How's that working out? Are you saying St.Peters has a good coach because they made an Elite 8?
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 27, 2022 17:18:08 GMT -8
Holloway became head coach at a chronically-underfunded, urban school in a one-bid league in 2018-19 and went 10-22. He then has gone 18-12 (semifinals of MAAC tournament before Covid ended season); 14-11 (MAAC semifinals) and then 22-11, with a conference tournament title and three NCAA wins from the #15 seed.
His teams play hard defense and fundamental, team basketball. I think they're leading scorer only averaged 11 points, they distribute the ball to everyone. Yes, he's a hell of a coach, working at a place with challenges that are inconceivable at a place like OSU, as anyone who has ever been to Jersey City and SPC's tiny campus can attest to.
The OP expressed surprise that a good coach would want to come to a program that's been a dumpster fire since the 1990s. Well, that describes SPC, and it got a good coach. No reason we could not, should a change be necessary after next year 9and unless we make the NIT at the very least, one should be made).
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Mar 27, 2022 17:53:11 GMT -8
Totally agree. There are plenty of viable candidates when Tinkle eventually is gone
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 27, 2022 20:17:18 GMT -8
On the whole St. Peter's thing... I wish OSU had gone to the NCAA tournament 3 times between 1991 and Tinkle's hiring date here like they did. We never went in that time. That's how poorly we did in the 20 years leading up to his hire.
Not saying Tinkle is the end all, but history shows not just any coach is going to be able to do great things here.
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 27, 2022 21:45:55 GMT -8
On the whole St. Peter's thing... I wish OSU had gone to the NCAA tournament 3 times between 1991 and Tinkle's hiring date here like they did. We never went in that time. That's how poorly we did in the 20 years leading up to his hire. Not saying Tinkle is the end all, but history shows not just any coach is going to be able to do great things here. I don't think anyone's asking for "great". But, 42 games under .500 in Pac12 play can't be acceptable. Coupled with the train wreck that is recruiting, OSU can do better when the time comes.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 28, 2022 9:11:30 GMT -8
On the whole St. Peter's thing... I wish OSU had gone to the NCAA tournament 3 times between 1991 and Tinkle's hiring date here like they did. We never went in that time. That's how poorly we did in the 20 years leading up to his hire. Not saying Tinkle is the end all, but history shows not just any coach is going to be able to do great things here. I don't think anyone's asking for "great". But, 42 games under .500 in Pac12 play can't be acceptable. Coupled with the train wreck that is recruiting, OSU can do better when the time comes. In 30 years the Beavers have only had three 9 and 10 win league seasons, all under Tinkle. Only Robinson managed to match Tinkle’s 8 win season, the best the others could manage was matching Tinkles two 7 win seasons, and a couple couldn’t do that. With the exception of two very bad seasons, Tinkle’s teams have been the most competitive teams in Pac 12 play since Gary Payton graduated. You can focus on the two VERY bad seasons, some of us seem to prefer to focus on the other 6 which were literally among the most competitive of the last 30 years. The team has to improve for him to stay, he could be +5 and in the NCAA Champs each of the next 8 years and you’d still be able to call him a losing Pac 12 coach in league play because of those two very bad seasons because it serves the narrative you are pushing.
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