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Post by grayman on Feb 25, 2022 11:54:54 GMT -8
So many of us, myself included, have pointed out that the loss of Taylor Jones is a big reason for the team's struggles on offense.
Obviously losing a post player that can consistently score in double figures has a negative effect. But the theory I am putting out here is that for this team, losing Jones had the same effect as a another team losing a superstar player (like an All-American type). Not that Jones isn't very good, but she's not quite at that level yet.
The Beavers been missing what Jones can do individually (12.3 points and 8.8 boards a game last year)...but on paper it seemed to be surmountable. However, not having Jones on the floor changed how SR had to use Kennedy Brown and I think that Brown never was comfortable in that role and too often pressed on offense, possibly feeling pressure to pick up the slack left by Jones.
But I also think the loss had a big impact on TVO. It left her as the sole offensive focal point for the Beavers. Teams have been free to double and triple team her with little fear that another player would get hot enough to carry OSU for an extended amount of time. And when that proved to be the case, it was often much tougher to get TVO going.
When you have two consistent scorers on the court everything opens up more often for both players and even creates more opportunities for others to step up. Even the Beavers' passing suffered because this wasn't the case.
If Jones is able to come back 100 percent it will be huge for the Beavers.
Thoughts?
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Post by wbosh15 on Feb 25, 2022 12:07:56 GMT -8
Completly agree.
Last night the Beaver 5's (Brown and Mitrovic) got 22 shots. They made 7 of them. Now, let's for the thought exercise, give all of those shots to TJ, and let's say she has a game where she shoots 10% below what she was shooting for the season before her injury. Basically that would mean 12-22 from the floor, 24 points. That's 10 extra points and the difference between a close game and a 12 point loss.
Also, I think with the type of shots that Brown and Mitrovic got, I think TJ would have shot better than 55% from the floor in the game.
Her absense has really made me appreciate her game more, and I hope she has a full recovery.
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 25, 2022 12:15:25 GMT -8
I guess the key for me and others that sit near, it doesn't matter now. With Jones is pure speculation and her presence meant a reduced presence for others. As pointed out above many players/facets were affected. But, TJ getting hers would mean some others not getting there's. It is not as if OSU's scoring would just jump 12 point/game. The offense and team chemistry is questionable for whatever reason and TJ would not have changed that dynamic drastically. Maybe OSU is 6th vs 8th right now?? Who knows...
The bigger picture we've discussed is the lack of a stable player or combo of players in the post. A good team does not "fall apart" because of a key injury unless they have zero depth. Mack is a swing type, not a pure post. Jelena is very limited to be a starter. Brown is NOT a post, and it shows she does not want to be a post as she said repeatedly when she arrived. OSU put all their eggs in one true post player. But, even at that SR's teams have had a tendency to be too TO and 3 pointer happy.
I believe OSU would have been better off playing TC inside with either Mack or JM, and using the three frosh and KB on the exterior. TC has great footwork inside, can bring an opponent's "big" outside as she is a great threat from 3. Spreading the court in a 4/5 out motion offense would have opened the driving/cutting lanes and eliminated help defenses on posting players up. With a key injury SR refused to adapt and tried to run the same old stuff with players not particularly suited to the role or style.
I'd be curious to have seen this team in a more uptempo offense, where the interior was left open for penetration and cuts, and then posting up mismatches. I do not think TO's would have increased, IMHO I think this personnel would have excelled and have been VERY hard to matchup with. Just my thoughts from the bleachers.
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Post by sparty on Feb 25, 2022 12:33:27 GMT -8
So many of us, myself included, have pointed out that the loss of Taylor Jones is a big reason for the team's struggles on offense. Obviously losing a post player that can consistently score in double figures has a negative effect. But the theory I am putting out here is that for this team, losing Jones had the same effect as a another team losing a superstar player (like an All-American type). Not that Jones isn't very good, but she's not quite at that level yet. The Beavers been missing what Jones can do individually (12.3 points and 8.8 boards a game last year)...but on paper it seemed to be surmountable. However, not having Jones on the floor changed how SR had to use Kennedy Brown and I think that Brown never was comfortable in that role and too often pressed on offense, possibly feeling pressure to pick up the slack left by Jones. But I also think the loss had a big impact on TVO. It left her as the sole offensive focal point for the Beavers. Teams have been free to double and triple team her with little fear that another player would get hot enough to carry OSU for an extended amount of time. And when that proved to be the case, it was often much tougher to get TVO going. When you have two consistent scorers on the court everything opens up more often for both players and even creates more opportunities for others to step up. Even the Beavers' passing suffered because this wasn't the case. If Jones is able to come back 100 percent it will be huge for the Beavers. Thoughts? Issues were there before Taylor Jones got hurt. We could have a discussion about the need for a point guard this off season as a start. |
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Post by wbosh15 on Feb 25, 2022 12:47:44 GMT -8
So many of us, myself included, have pointed out that the loss of Taylor Jones is a big reason for the team's struggles on offense. Obviously losing a post player that can consistently score in double figures has a negative effect. But the theory I am putting out here is that for this team, losing Jones had the same effect as a another team losing a superstar player (like an All-American type). Not that Jones isn't very good, but she's not quite at that level yet. The Beavers been missing what Jones can do individually (12.3 points and 8.8 boards a game last year)...but on paper it seemed to be surmountable. However, not having Jones on the floor changed how SR had to use Kennedy Brown and I think that Brown never was comfortable in that role and too often pressed on offense, possibly feeling pressure to pick up the slack left by Jones. But I also think the loss had a big impact on TVO. It left her as the sole offensive focal point for the Beavers. Teams have been free to double and triple team her with little fear that another player would get hot enough to carry OSU for an extended amount of time. And when that proved to be the case, it was often much tougher to get TVO going. When you have two consistent scorers on the court everything opens up more often for both players and even creates more opportunities for others to step up. Even the Beavers' passing suffered because this wasn't the case. If Jones is able to come back 100 percent it will be huge for the Beavers. Thoughts? Issues were there before Taylor Jones got hurt. We could have a discussion about the need for a point guard this off season as a start. I don't think Jones takes us from where we are to 2nd or 3rd in the Pac, but I think you are more seriously in the hunt for 4th-5th with her. OSU needs better play from a LOT of players, but removing an all-pac-12 player from any team will hurt them. Look what the loss of Reece did to AZ last night, and how much Osborne has been missed by UCLA. |
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Post by grayman on Feb 25, 2022 12:54:47 GMT -8
Yes, the Beavers could have used a top point guard going into the season, but it's not as if Rueck didn't try to address the position. It's a huge need moving forward though.
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Post by grayman on Feb 25, 2022 13:00:46 GMT -8
I guess the key for me and others that sit near, it doesn't matter now. With Jones is pure speculation and her presence meant a reduced presence for others. As pointed out above many players/facets were affected. But, TJ getting hers would mean some others not getting there's. It is not as if OSU's scoring would just jump 12 point/game. The offense and team chemistry is questionable for whatever reason and TJ would not have changed that dynamic drastically. Maybe OSU is 6th vs 8th right now?? Who knows... The bigger picture we've discussed is the lack of a stable player or combo of players in the post. A good team does not "fall apart" because of a key injury unless they have zero depth. Mack is a swing type, not a pure post. Jelena is very limited to be a starter. Brown is NOT a post, and it shows she does not want to be a post as she said repeatedly when she arrived. OSU put all their eggs in one true post player. But, even at that SR's teams have had a tendency to be too TO and 3 pointer happy. I believe OSU would have been better off playing TC inside with either Mack or JM, and using the three frosh and KB on the exterior. TC has great footwork inside, can bring an opponent's "big" outside as she is a great threat from 3. Spreading the court in a 4/5 out motion offense would have opened the driving/cutting lanes and eliminated help defenses on posting players up. With a key injury SR refused to adapt and tried to run the same old stuff with players not particularly suited to the role or style. I'd be curious to have seen this team in a more uptempo offense, where the interior was left open for penetration and cuts, and then posting up mismatches. I do not think TO's would have increased, IMHO I think this personnel would have excelled and have been VERY hard to matchup with. Just my thoughts from the bleachers. I'm not saying the team fell apart because of the loss of Jones, but that it had a much bigger impact overall than one might think...kind of set off a domino effect. I don't really agree that Rueck "refused to adapt" but what he has done can be debated, for sure. Totally agree that it would have been cool to see what the team could have done in an uptempo offense, but we're not going to get that from a Rueck team. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 25, 2022 13:08:21 GMT -8
So many of us, myself included, have pointed out that the loss of Taylor Jones is a big reason for the team's struggles on offense. Obviously losing a post player that can consistently score in double figures has a negative effect. But the theory I am putting out here is that for this team, losing Jones had the same effect as a another team losing a superstar player (like an All-American type). Not that Jones isn't very good, but she's not quite at that level yet. The Beavers been missing what Jones can do individually (12.3 points and 8.8 boards a game last year)...but on paper it seemed to be surmountable. However, not having Jones on the floor changed how SR had to use Kennedy Brown and I think that Brown never was comfortable in that role and too often pressed on offense, possibly feeling pressure to pick up the slack left by Jones. But I also think the loss had a big impact on TVO. It left her as the sole offensive focal point for the Beavers. Teams have been free to double and triple team her with little fear that another player would get hot enough to carry OSU for an extended amount of time. And when that proved to be the case, it was often much tougher to get TVO going. When you have two consistent scorers on the court everything opens up more often for both players and even creates more opportunities for others to step up. Even the Beavers' passing suffered because this wasn't the case. If Jones is able to come back 100 percent it will be huge for the Beavers. Thoughts? I hope she recovers fully. I'm no doctor but from what I've read, 100% recovery even with all of the modern advances, is still not a given. |
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Post by bvrbooster on Feb 25, 2022 14:54:41 GMT -8
I guess the key for me and others that sit near, it doesn't matter now. With Jones is pure speculation and her presence meant a reduced presence for others. As pointed out above many players/facets were affected. But, TJ getting hers would mean some others not getting there's. It is not as if OSU's scoring would just jump 12 point/game. The offense and team chemistry is questionable for whatever reason and TJ would not have changed that dynamic drastically. Maybe OSU is 6th vs 8th right now?? Who knows... The bigger picture we've discussed is the lack of a stable player or combo of players in the post. A good team does not "fall apart" because of a key injury unless they have zero depth. Mack is a swing type, not a pure post. Jelena is very limited to be a starter. Brown is NOT a post, and it shows she does not want to be a post as she said repeatedly when she arrived. OSU put all their eggs in one true post player. But, even at that SR's teams have had a tendency to be too TO and 3 pointer happy. I believe OSU would have been better off playing TC inside with either Mack or JM, and using the three frosh and KB on the exterior. TC has great footwork inside, can bring an opponent's "big" outside as she is a great threat from 3. Spreading the court in a 4/5 out motion offense would have opened the driving/cutting lanes and eliminated help defenses on posting players up. With a key injury SR refused to adapt and tried to run the same old stuff with players not particularly suited to the role or style. I'd be curious to have seen this team in a more uptempo offense, where the interior was left open for penetration and cuts, and then posting up mismatches. I do not think TO's would have increased, IMHO I think this personnel would have excelled and have been VERY hard to matchup with. Just my thoughts from the bleachers. For what it's worth: In the 10 nonconference games in which Taylor played, we averaged 70.7 points per game. In the 14 conference games without her, we've averaged 61.1 |
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 25, 2022 15:22:02 GMT -8
I guess the key for me and others that sit near, it doesn't matter now. With Jones is pure speculation and her presence meant a reduced presence for others. As pointed out above many players/facets were affected. But, TJ getting hers would mean some others not getting there's. It is not as if OSU's scoring would just jump 12 point/game. The offense and team chemistry is questionable for whatever reason and TJ would not have changed that dynamic drastically. Maybe OSU is 6th vs 8th right now?? Who knows... The bigger picture we've discussed is the lack of a stable player or combo of players in the post. A good team does not "fall apart" because of a key injury unless they have zero depth. Mack is a swing type, not a pure post. Jelena is very limited to be a starter. Brown is NOT a post, and it shows she does not want to be a post as she said repeatedly when she arrived. OSU put all their eggs in one true post player. But, even at that SR's teams have had a tendency to be too TO and 3 pointer happy. I believe OSU would have been better off playing TC inside with either Mack or JM, and using the three frosh and KB on the exterior. TC has great footwork inside, can bring an opponent's "big" outside as she is a great threat from 3. Spreading the court in a 4/5 out motion offense would have opened the driving/cutting lanes and eliminated help defenses on posting players up. With a key injury SR refused to adapt and tried to run the same old stuff with players not particularly suited to the role or style. I'd be curious to have seen this team in a more uptempo offense, where the interior was left open for penetration and cuts, and then posting up mismatches. I do not think TO's would have increased, IMHO I think this personnel would have excelled and have been VERY hard to matchup with. Just my thoughts from the bleachers. For what it's worth: In the 10 nonconference games in which Taylor played, we averaged 70.7 points per game. In the 14 conference games without her, we've averaged 61.1 Do you really think that's apples to apples? Take a closer look at the majority of the NC games. |
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Post by bvrbooster on Feb 25, 2022 17:54:46 GMT -8
No, it's not apples and apples; that's why I said, for what it's worth.
I would expect it to be more difficult to score against PAC 12 opponents, even if you had the exacts same players - which the Beavers did not. 9.6 points per game tougher? I, personally, don't think so. Some of that is Taylor; how much, who knows?
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 25, 2022 18:55:56 GMT -8
No, it's not apples and apples; that's why I said, for what it's worth. I would expect it to be more difficult to score against PAC 12 opponents, even if you had the exacts same players - which the Beavers did not. 9.6 points per game tougher? I, personally, don't think so. Some of that is Taylor; how much, who knows? Well it's pretty easy to kinda do apples to apples in the NC. Take the (3) Pac12 type teams certainly not UW bad nor Furd good. But, I'm saying Pac12 quality. ND, Michigan, Villanova... averaged 55. Pretty indicative of what's happened in conference. |
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Post by beaveragain on Feb 25, 2022 19:01:04 GMT -8
I guess the key for me and others that sit near, it doesn't matter now. With Jones is pure speculation and her presence meant a reduced presence for others. As pointed out above many players/facets were affected. But, TJ getting hers would mean some others not getting there's. It is not as if OSU's scoring would just jump 12 point/game. The offense and team chemistry is questionable for whatever reason and TJ would not have changed that dynamic drastically. Maybe OSU is 6th vs 8th right now?? Who knows... The bigger picture we've discussed is the lack of a stable player or combo of players in the post. A good team does not "fall apart" because of a key injury unless they have zero depth. Mack is a swing type, not a pure post. Jelena is very limited to be a starter. Brown is NOT a post, and it shows she does not want to be a post as she said repeatedly when she arrived. OSU put all their eggs in one true post player. But, even at that SR's teams have had a tendency to be too TO and 3 pointer happy. I believe OSU would have been better off playing TC inside with either Mack or JM, and using the three frosh and KB on the exterior. TC has great footwork inside, can bring an opponent's "big" outside as she is a great threat from 3. Spreading the court in a 4/5 out motion offense would have opened the driving/cutting lanes and eliminated help defenses on posting players up. With a key injury SR refused to adapt and tried to run the same old stuff with players not particularly suited to the role or style. I'd be curious to have seen this team in a more uptempo offense, where the interior was left open for penetration and cuts, and then posting up mismatches. I do not think TO's would have increased, IMHO I think this personnel would have excelled and have been VERY hard to matchup with. Just my thoughts from the bleachers. So the team chemistry/offense is questionable but would not be improved by having a post who was shooting 65% when she went off to surgery as opposed to two posts who are averaging about 40%? "3 pointer happy"? They are tenth in the Pac-12 in attempts from the 3. How few do they need to make before you will be happy? And on TO's, they had 5? against Utah and were never really in the game. My hindsight says they would have been better off not switching to small ball. When they had three bigs playing (such as Brown, Corosdale, and Mack) they won the rebound battles and blocked a lot of shots. The only problem as I see it was the guards hadn't figured it out yet. Mack is scoring and so is AJ, give them a chance to support TVO so she can go off. |
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 25, 2022 19:14:18 GMT -8
I guess the key for me and others that sit near, it doesn't matter now. With Jones is pure speculation and her presence meant a reduced presence for others. As pointed out above many players/facets were affected. But, TJ getting hers would mean some others not getting there's. It is not as if OSU's scoring would just jump 12 point/game. The offense and team chemistry is questionable for whatever reason and TJ would not have changed that dynamic drastically. Maybe OSU is 6th vs 8th right now?? Who knows... The bigger picture we've discussed is the lack of a stable player or combo of players in the post. A good team does not "fall apart" because of a key injury unless they have zero depth. Mack is a swing type, not a pure post. Jelena is very limited to be a starter. Brown is NOT a post, and it shows she does not want to be a post as she said repeatedly when she arrived. OSU put all their eggs in one true post player. But, even at that SR's teams have had a tendency to be too TO and 3 pointer happy. I believe OSU would have been better off playing TC inside with either Mack or JM, and using the three frosh and KB on the exterior. TC has great footwork inside, can bring an opponent's "big" outside as she is a great threat from 3. Spreading the court in a 4/5 out motion offense would have opened the driving/cutting lanes and eliminated help defenses on posting players up. With a key injury SR refused to adapt and tried to run the same old stuff with players not particularly suited to the role or style. I'd be curious to have seen this team in a more uptempo offense, where the interior was left open for penetration and cuts, and then posting up mismatches. I do not think TO's would have increased, IMHO I think this personnel would have excelled and have been VERY hard to matchup with. Just my thoughts from the bleachers. So the team chemistry/offense is questionable but would not be improved by having a post who was shooting 65% when she went off to surgery as opposed to two posts who are averaging about 40%? "3 pointer happy"? They are tenth in the Pac-12 in attempts from the 3. How few do they need to make before you will be happy? And on TO's, they had 5? against Utah and were never really in the game. My hindsight says they would have been better off not switching to small ball. When they had three bigs playing (such as Brown, Corosdale, and Mack) they won the rebound battles and blocked a lot of shots. The only problem as I see it was the guards hadn't figured it out yet. Mack is scoring and so is AJ, give them a chance to support TVO so she can go off. Blah blah blah... as usual read/interpret in your "special" way. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Feb 25, 2022 19:16:31 GMT -8
I guess the key for me and others that sit near, it doesn't matter now. With Jones is pure speculation and her presence meant a reduced presence for others. As pointed out above many players/facets were affected. But, TJ getting hers would mean some others not getting there's. It is not as if OSU's scoring would just jump 12 point/game. The offense and team chemistry is questionable for whatever reason and TJ would not have changed that dynamic drastically. Maybe OSU is 6th vs 8th right now?? Who knows... The bigger picture we've discussed is the lack of a stable player or combo of players in the post. A good team does not "fall apart" because of a key injury unless they have zero depth. Mack is a swing type, not a pure post. Jelena is very limited to be a starter. Brown is NOT a post, and it shows she does not want to be a post as she said repeatedly when she arrived. OSU put all their eggs in one true post player. But, even at that SR's teams have had a tendency to be too TO and 3 pointer happy. I believe OSU would have been better off playing TC inside with either Mack or JM, and using the three frosh and KB on the exterior. TC has great footwork inside, can bring an opponent's "big" outside as she is a great threat from 3. Spreading the court in a 4/5 out motion offense would have opened the driving/cutting lanes and eliminated help defenses on posting players up. With a key injury SR refused to adapt and tried to run the same old stuff with players not particularly suited to the role or style. I'd be curious to have seen this team in a more uptempo offense, where the interior was left open for penetration and cuts, and then posting up mismatches. I do not think TO's would have increased, IMHO I think this personnel would have excelled and have been VERY hard to matchup with. Just my thoughts from the bleachers. Didn't you hear reality isn't allowed only positive comments. |
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