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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2021 20:08:00 GMT -8
Which actually backs the point that 5-27 is not really an aberration. But, instead the first sign of no consistent recruiting, no depth or development. NC scheduling has been weak throughout the last 2-3+ coaches. A ton of weak sisters are what props the overall record. The Pac12 record is the true indicator of where OSU stands within the conference. The conference is where it counts. If there is such thing as an anomaly in a coach's record (there isn't, they all count, no cares or keeps track of injuries or excuses) it be the E8 run. Never even close to that level at any time in his career. Covid greatly affected many opponents more severely than OSU. One team self banned (supposedly) from the Pac12 tourney. None of that takes away the great run. But, those circumstances taken together are the definition of an anomaly. Not one key player lost for a season. Happens to teams all the time and it doesn't necessarily lead to a 5-27 record. Having zero players developed and poor recruiting coupled with said injury is on the coach/staff. But, again... there weren't any sons left to sign! There you go again.... the 5 and 27 year began weeks after Tinkle's 2nd recruiting class arrived on campus. Using your consistent recruiting to build depth and development argument (which I agree with), that season was on the previous coaching staff. No healthy player and 1 unhealthy player from the previous staff. That season was played with kids who had seen between 0 and 1 season of ball at this level. This year is all on Wayne though. No argument there. The thing is, there's a lot of season left. Let's see how it shakes out. You just said the Pac 12 games are the real indicator of where the team stands in the league. Maybe you should take your own advice and let the season actually happen? I've never mentioned once about any prognostication of the remaining season. Nor do I think or argue that SB will fire WT. Not fiscally possible. My posts are mostly factual based, depending on how some will twist words to their viewpoint (Those that mostly comment on posters vs actual topics being discussed). They are rebuttals to the constant excuse filled posts of support that completely ignore (or again twist) the fact WT is a horrible recruiter and definitely not much of a developer of talent he does get. Both are the key to build a consistent program that will never get the consistent influx of 4/5* talent no matter the coach. The 5-27 season was WT's 3rd season. Two full recruiting classes plus leftovers from CR that seemed to help out in years 1 & 2 for a 36-27/17-19 record. So any of those CR leftovers suddenly were the issue in the 5-27 year? Numbers are there for all to see. The level of recruiting is pretty apparent and has been consistently below average for Pac12 level play. What happens the remainder of the season is anyone's guess. I suppose if OSU goes 10-22 some will see it a a great turn around by finishing 9-13? Who knows? Everyone on this board has their own thoughts, opinions, and preferences. Some overly negative, some thru orange goggles, some more realistic, and most contain a bit of each. And, there's nothing wrong with any of them. It's a fan's discussion. The only posts that are really out of place are those that really don't offer any perspective on the topic. But, are just immature sarcasm, and comments on other posters. Luckily one can just skim thru and ignore as most just want to fish for the attention of a similar retort. |
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2021 20:11:44 GMT -8
Which actually backs the point that 5-27 is not really an aberration. But, instead the first sign of no consistent recruiting, no depth or development. NC scheduling has been weak throughout the last 2-3+ coaches. A ton of weak sisters are what props the overall record. The Pac12 record is the true indicator of where OSU stands within the conference. The conference is where it counts. If there is such thing as an anomaly in a coach's record (there isn't, they all count, no cares or keeps track of injuries or excuses) it be the E8 run. Never even close to that level at any time in his career. Covid greatly affected many opponents more severely than OSU. One team self banned (supposedly) from the Pac12 tourney. None of that takes away the great run. But, those circumstances taken together are the definition of an anomaly. Not one key player lost for a season. Happens to teams all the time and it doesn't necessarily lead to a 5-27 record. Having zero players developed and poor recruiting coupled with said injury is on the coach/staff. But, again... there weren't any sons left to sign! So last year it was other teams with COVID that led to our run, but this year, the fact the 6 of our players have had COVID is an excuse and nothing more. Keep talking out both sides of your mouth baseballllls. Per usual, your misuse of context and partial info to try to denigrate further illuminates your purpose here. Have a great weekend! |
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 17, 2021 20:18:01 GMT -8
There you go again.... the 5 and 27 year began weeks after Tinkle's 2nd recruiting class arrived on campus. Using your consistent recruiting to build depth and development argument (which I agree with), that season was on the previous coaching staff. No healthy player and 1 unhealthy player from the previous staff. That season was played with kids who had seen between 0 and 1 season of ball at this level. This year is all on Wayne though. No argument there. The thing is, there's a lot of season left. Let's see how it shakes out. You just said the Pac 12 games are the real indicator of where the team stands in the league. Maybe you should take your own advice and let the season actually happen? I've never mentioned once about any prognostication of the remaining season. Nor do I think or argue that SB will fire WT. Not fiscally possible. My posts are mostly factual based, depending on how some will twist words to their viewpoint (Those that mostly comment on posters vs actual topics being discussed). They are rebuttals to the constant excuse filled posts of support that completely ignore (or again twist) the fact WT is a horrible recruiter and definitely not much of a developer of talent he does get. Both are the key to build a consistent program that will never get the consistent influx of 4/5* talent no matter the coach. The 5-27 season was WT's 3rd season. Two full recruiting classes plus leftovers from CR that seemed to help out in years 1 & 2 for a 36-27/17-19 record. So any of those CR leftovers suddenly were the issue in the 5-27 year? Numbers are there for all to see. The level of recruiting is pretty apparent and has been consistently below average for Pac12 level play. What happens the remainder of the season is anyone's guess. I suppose if OSU goes 10-22 some will see it a a great turn around by finishing 9-13? Who knows? Everyone on this board has their own thoughts, opinions, and preferences. Some overly negative, some thru orange goggles, some more realistic, and most contain a bit of each. And, there's nothing wrong with any of them. It's a fan's discussion. The only posts that are really out of place are those that really don't offer any perspective on the topic. But, are just immature sarcasm, and comments on other posters. Luckily one can just skim thru and ignore as most just want to fish for the attention of a similar retort. Nothing like “the voice of reason” coming from the only poster in the history of the board to be banned twice. LOL. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 17, 2021 20:19:00 GMT -8
So last year it was other teams with COVID that led to our run, but this year, the fact the 6 of our players have had COVID is an excuse and nothing more. Keep talking out both sides of your mouth baseballllls. Per usual, your misuse of context and partial info to try to denigrate further illuminates your purpose here. Have a great weekend! Nope. Just quoting your nonsense. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 17, 2021 20:40:29 GMT -8
My main arguments is SOS. 30th. My second argument is record of opponents. Who else in the country has played 10 games so far and only one with a losing record? Point 'em out. Let's compare. My third argument is that our opponents don't get beat often, and, when they do, they tend to get beat by great teams. Look at our five best opponents so far. So far, their combined worst loss is a road loss to Hofstra. Otherwise, our top five opponents have not lost to a team that is sub-35 in the NET. My fourth argument is that California was terrible but seems to have turned it around. Their worst loss since the 0-2 start is either a loss to Florida in Fort Myers or a loss to Utah in Salt Lake City, neither are really bad losses. The majority of Tulsa's losses are to good teams Tulsa losing to Utah in Salt Lake and @ Boise make sense in the grand scheme of things. The majority of Penn State's losses are against quality opponents. Oregon State is sans one functioning center. Andela is out. And Silva is beat up. Ahmand Rand is 6' 8" and is really playing out-of-position, when he is playing the five. We miss Washington something awful. That transfer stings. It seems like Oregon State plays more than 80% of each game without a true center, which hurts. Gianni Hunt should be seeing the minutes that he is seeing either. He is too inconsistent. Another transfer that stings is Tariq Silver. That guy is averaging more than 14 points a game now at Austin Peay. Calloo and Lucas have neither progressed to the point that they can really create their own shots. It would have been much better if Calloo or Lucas would have transferred rather than Silver. It might still come together, or it might continue to be ugly. A&M looks like a loss, but I am hoping for a surprise on Saturday. 1. Not sure where you are getting 30 for SOS. source I found has it at 69. Also, I believe quality of opponent is a part of NET. That would be the ranking system that has the Beavers #275. 2. I’m not going to sift through 325 teams’ schedules and schedules of opponents. If you have the time you can tell me how many teams have played only 1 team with a losing record. 3. Again losing to good teams does not make you a good team, it just means you played good teams and couldn’t beat them. You seem to be a smart guy, so I’m sure you know that. So don’t tell us who teams lost to, but who they beat. You tell us that the majority of Penn State’s losses are against quality opponents. Who have they beat? Penn State’s wins are against Youngstown St.., St-Francis-NY, Cornell and Wagner. Not exactly traditional powers in college basketball. 4. You said in your original post that the Beavs 9 losses were 9 difficult games. Very true because the Beavers made them difficult. Be honest, if in preseason someone asked you what Beav’s record would be after first 10 games, would you have said 1-9? I doubt it nor should you have. I think the pessimists would have said 5-5. I believe most would have expected more wins than that. I can’t argue that Oregon State would likely be better with Washington ( but come on he left 2 years ago) and Silver, or that Calloo or Lucas haven’t progressed. But aren’t you basically making the argument for those that have said Tinkle can’t keep guys in the program and he’s not very good with player development? I hope Beavs can turn it around, but I’m not holding my breath considering what I’ve seen so far. But I’ll keep watching and rooting. And as I’ve said earlier, I fully expect WT to get at least another year. And as bad as this season has been thus far, I want him to get another year because I don’t want OSU to be that school that fired the HC a year after getting team to Elite Eight — no matter how flukish people might think it is. But don’t try to make it out that this team right now isn’t very good using SOS or the fact that some of the teams we’ve lost to have lost to good teams. 1. RPI. Wake beat Charlotte, and Oregon State's SOS is now up to 29. 2. I have no idea. I am putting that out there. Only 28 teams have played harder schedules than Oregon State.
3. Just looking at Penn State, Wagner's NET is 54. Cornell is 6-2. Youngstown State is 6-3. Penn State's RPI SOS is 14. They have not beat traditional powers, but have beat four good teams, and St. Francis. Still, even Penn State has played two teams with losing records.
4. Oregon State started last year 5-5. I think people that were predicting better than that were optimists. I don't know what pessimists were thinking, but I am guessing that it was a losing record of some sort. I'm sure that baseba11 had 0-10 in his office pool, though, and is upset that Oregon State was able to walk away with the W, hence his ire on here.
1-9 is bad, though. I am not a fan. But I am not going to pretend that the team is a roving dumpster fire.
I agree with most of everything else that you wrote. I think that Tinkle will probably be coaching here in 2023. Still, the 11 months ago chicken little schtick from some on here gets on my nerves. The same people piping off on here without any analysis or insight are the same people that were dumping on an Elite Eight team in January 2021. |
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2021 21:11:38 GMT -8
Per usual, your misuse of context and partial info to try to denigrate further illuminates your purpose here. Have a great weekend! Nope. Just quoting your nonsense. Hate to give you your daily requirement of attention. But, do you know what quoting means? "So last year it was other teams with COVID that led to our run..." Couldn't find this anywhere in my post or brief search of any other post. Except your complete fabrication of course. 🤔🤣 |
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Post by Ruh Roh Beav on Dec 17, 2021 21:39:16 GMT -8
Nope. Just quoting your nonsense. Hate to give you your daily requirement of attention. But, do you know what quoting means? "So last year it was other teams with COVID that led to our run..." Couldn't find this anywhere in my post or brief search of any other post. Except your complete fabrication of course. 🤔🤣 George....you’re the one fella that has Judge beat hands down.....you two have always went at each other....I think the best ones were on Casey’s forum but there’s some good ones on the hoops and football ones as well.....my hats are off to both of you |
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2021 22:03:19 GMT -8
Hate to give you your daily requirement of attention. But, do you know what quoting means? "So last year it was other teams with COVID that led to our run..." Couldn't find this anywhere in my post or brief search of any other post. Except your complete fabrication of course. 🤔🤣 George....you’re the one fella that has Judge beat hands down.....you two have always went at each other....I think the best ones were on Casey’s forum but there’s some good ones on the hoops and football ones as well.....my hats are off to both of you Lol... thx? Ha, well really not here to "beat" anyone, but that's similar the "low bar" used to support WT when compared to former coaches! |
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Post by irimi on Dec 17, 2021 22:16:33 GMT -8
Hate to give you your daily requirement of attention. But, do you know what quoting means? "So last year it was other teams with COVID that led to our run..." Couldn't find this anywhere in my post or brief search of any other post. Except your complete fabrication of course. 🤔🤣 George....you’re the one fella that has Judge beat hands down.....you two have always went at each other....I think the best ones were on Casey’s forum but there’s some good ones on the hoops and football ones as well.....my hats are off to both of you it’s not a hat. It’s a batting helmet. |
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2021 22:33:17 GMT -8
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Post by irimi on Dec 17, 2021 22:43:00 GMT -8
Nuts. I had written "skull cap" first and then changed it to "batting helmet." Actually, I don't care, and I don't remember who had argued what, so no ridiculing involved. Just having fun at the memory of that "discussion." |
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2021 22:45:47 GMT -8
Nuts. I had written "skull cap" first and then changed it to "batting helmet." Actually, I don't care, and I don't remember who had argued what, so no ridiculing involved. Just having fun at the memory of that "discussion." Did not intend to mean you were ridiculing here... but in reading that thread it was batting helmet vs skull cap. Quite the meaningless discussion as many on such boards are when it comes right down to it! Go Beavs |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 17, 2021 23:13:14 GMT -8
There you go again.... the 5 and 27 year began weeks after Tinkle's 2nd recruiting class arrived on campus. Using your consistent recruiting to build depth and development argument (which I agree with), that season was on the previous coaching staff. No healthy player and 1 unhealthy player from the previous staff. That season was played with kids who had seen between 0 and 1 season of ball at this level. This year is all on Wayne though. No argument there. The thing is, there's a lot of season left. Let's see how it shakes out. You just said the Pac 12 games are the real indicator of where the team stands in the league. Maybe you should take your own advice and let the season actually happen? The 5-27 season was WT's 3rd season. Two full recruiting classes plus leftovers from CR that seemed to help out in years 1 & 2 for a 36-27/17-19 record. So any of those CR leftovers suddenly were the issue in the 5-27 ? Are you paying attention? The oft injured N’Diaye, who was never a factor during the Robinson years, was the only Robinson “leftover” in that season. Nobody else on the team was a Robinson Recruit. Everyone else had 1 year or less of major college PRACTICE under their belts, several were walk-ons. There should have been Robinson recruited juniors and seniors “left over” on that team to provide some semblance of leadership, beyond N’Diaye there were none. With the exception of GP2, who was only a 2 year player who Tinkle had to basically re-recruit, Robinson’s last 2 classes did not pan out, absent a “Fab Five” recruiting year, any coach OSU would have hired was set up for failure that season. |
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 18, 2021 0:25:32 GMT -8
The 5-27 season was WT's 3rd season. Two full recruiting classes plus leftovers from CR that seemed to help out in years 1 & 2 for a 36-27/17-19 record. So any of those CR leftovers suddenly were the issue in the 5-27 ? Are you paying attention? The oft injured N’Diaye, who was never a factor during the Robinson years, was the only Robinson “leftover” in that season. Nobody else on the team was a Robinson Recruit. Everyone else had 1 year or less of major college PRACTICE under their belts, several were walk-ons. There should have been Robinson recruited juniors and seniors “left over” on that team to provide some semblance of leadership, beyond N’Diaye there were none. With the exception of GP2, who was only a 2 year player who Tinkle had to basically re-recruit, Robinson’s last 2 classes did not pan out, absent a “Fab Five” recruiting year, any coach OSU would have hired was set up for failure that season. Paying direct attention... are you? First... WT did not have to re-recruit GPII. OSU was his only significant offer that panned out, GP had basically assured he was sticking with his alma mater. WT was the lucky recipient, not the recruiter who convinced him to stay. It's not about CR's last two classes. His vets gave WT two transition seasons of having winning records and an NCAA berth. The CR crew was basically gone in WT's 3rd year, but WT should have had two full classes. The 3rd year was basically all WT recruits... yes? Basically no talent or depth brought in. Tres was a soph, Steven a soph that fateful season... other than the sons who else did WT bring in with them their Frosh years: Drew Big G Bruce Manuel Muller as a transfer (sat out '15-16) So take away the sons and what your take on this 1st class? WT knows he has 5 Seniors (1 being the best player in the conference, 2 who basically were injured every other day), and 2 walk ons that never played going into the '15-16 season. Staffs are constantly recruiting for the next class and the ones after that. That ragtag group goes 19-13 with a tourney berth. So, WT turns that into: JaQuori... huge get, averages 10.5/3/2 as true frosh... but of course doesn't stay Stacy... as a transfer... averages about 2 points and 1.5 boards over two years Sanders... added back after not playing the year before... averaged under 1 point in his career Russell... a walk on who never played Kone... 23 games, averaged about 3/3... aslo left after sophomore year Ok... so did I miss anyone. Easy to do as there were many great kids, but nondescript players. So, count GPII on WT's scorecard if you'd like... But, if you are paying attention, you're right. Any coach who recruits like the above list was pretty much doomed his 3rd season when the previous coaches players graduated or left, and one key injury occurs. And... using 2016-17 as the reason for the poor Pac12 record, near .500 overall record. It's only near .500 because the NCSOS (sites used may vary) is pretty low: 2015 #320 (9-4 NC) 2016 #155 (10-4 NC) 2017 #300 (4-10 NC) 2018 #336 (9-5 NC) 2019 #260 (8-5 NC) 2020 #334 (11-2 NC) 2021 #278 (10-3 NC) 2022 #145 (1-7 so far... rating should go "up" with A&M and decently ranked Pac12 teams... best NCSOS in his tenure, worst record) So 114-118/52-78... means he's 62-40 vs a NCSOS averaging #266. But, again we all have our acceptable standards. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Dec 18, 2021 0:35:01 GMT -8
1. Not sure where you are getting 30 for SOS. source I found has it at 69. Also, I believe quality of opponent is a part of NET. That would be the ranking system that has the Beavers #275. 2. I’m not going to sift through 325 teams’ schedules and schedules of opponents. If you have the time you can tell me how many teams have played only 1 team with a losing record. 3. Again losing to good teams does not make you a good team, it just means you played good teams and couldn’t beat them. You seem to be a smart guy, so I’m sure you know that. So don’t tell us who teams lost to, but who they beat. You tell us that the majority of Penn State’s losses are against quality opponents. Who have they beat? Penn State’s wins are against Youngstown St.., St-Francis-NY, Cornell and Wagner. Not exactly traditional powers in college basketball. 4. You said in your original post that the Beavs 9 losses were 9 difficult games. Very true because the Beavers made them difficult. Be honest, if in preseason someone asked you what Beav’s record would be after first 10 games, would you have said 1-9? I doubt it nor should you have. I think the pessimists would have said 5-5. I believe most would have expected more wins than that. I can’t argue that Oregon State would likely be better with Washington ( but come on he left 2 years ago) and Silver, or that Calloo or Lucas haven’t progressed. But aren’t you basically making the argument for those that have said Tinkle can’t keep guys in the program and he’s not very good with player development? I hope Beavs can turn it around, but I’m not holding my breath considering what I’ve seen so far. But I’ll keep watching and rooting. And as I’ve said earlier, I fully expect WT to get at least another year. And as bad as this season has been thus far, I want him to get another year because I don’t want OSU to be that school that fired the HC a year after getting team to Elite Eight — no matter how flukish people might think it is. But don’t try to make it out that this team right now isn’t very good using SOS or the fact that some of the teams we’ve lost to have lost to good teams. 1. RPI. Wake beat Charlotte, and Oregon State's SOS is now up to 29. 2. I have no idea. I am putting that out there. Only 28 teams have played harder schedules than Oregon State.
3. Just looking at Penn State, Wagner's NET is 54. Cornell is 6-2. Youngstown State is 6-3. Penn State's RPI SOS is 14. They have not beat traditional powers, but have beat four good teams, and St. Francis. Still, even Penn State has played two teams with losing records.
4. Oregon State started last year 5-5. I think people that were predicting better than that were optimists. I don't know what pessimists were thinking, but I am guessing that it was a losing record of some sort. I'm sure that baseba11 had 0-10 in his office pool, though, and is upset that Oregon State was able to walk away with the W, hence his ire on here.
1-9 is bad, though. I am not a fan. But I am not going to pretend that the team is a roving dumpster fire.
I agree with most of everything else that you wrote. I think that Tinkle will probably be coaching here in 2023. Still, the 11 months ago chicken little schtick from some on here gets on my nerves. The same people piping off on here without any analysis or insight are the same people that were dumping on an Elite Eight team in January 2021.So going into this year, you didn’t have wins penciled in against Portland St., Samford, UC-Davis, Princeton and at least a split against Iowa St/ Tulsa (Iowa St won 2 games last year and had 6 or 7 newcomers/Tulsa was a game under .500 and lost its top two scorers) as well as at least 1 win in tourney (Penn St was picked to finish 13th in BIG after going 11-14 last year and losing its top two scorers)? That to me speaks volumes about where the program is. I wouldn’t call those lofty expectations for a Pac 12 team. I think that should bother Beaver fans. I’m not sure what your definition of “roving dumpster fire” is, but 1-9 and #275 in NET is certainly close enough to smell the accelerant. Can Tinkle turn things around this year? Man I hope so, but I really don’t see it. I keep looking for some sign that the team is buying in, but haven’t seen it yet. And if we don’t see it over the next 10 games then my hope is that Tinkle can identify the 4, 6, 8 or whatever number it is of players who will buy in, play hard and that he can move forward with next year. Play those guys no matter the result (why not, he’s not gonna get fired anyway) and make sure they stick around cuz you know there will be transfers out. If not, next year will be more of the same. |
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