|
|
Post by rgeorge on Dec 15, 2021 11:22:53 GMT -8
Was waiting for it... the last bastion of support is always the lowest bar possible! Support WT by comparing him to the past coaches. When no one has ever stated such a comparison as a reason to fire WT it's always the main reason to support him. Excuses after excuses. By March he could have two of the worst seasons in OSU hoops history on his resume. Maybe 30-35 games under .500 in league play. He has zero credibility in recruiting Pac12 level talent, especially the last 4-5 seasons. But, lets keep accepting mediocrity... at best! Funny, how some must see WT as OSU's best option moving forward. Like OSU and a Pac12 HCing job wouldn't attract lots of talented coaching possibilities. You wonder if these same folks had the same opinion on MR and football. We're they haters? Supporters? Afraid there was no way a equal or better coach that could possibly want the OSU job?? I mean isn't OSU WBB like the perfect example of finding a great coach at the most I likely level? Familiar to some who knew if GF, but certainly not on a regional, national level in terms of D1. MBB isn't at the level of where WBB was, but the point is that there are 100's of highly talented coaches out there. And luckily OSU is in an attractive conference. Folks want Pac12 jobs. I refuse to accept your accepting mediocrity post. I don't think anyone is "accepting" anything. Just saying that they're not going to fire a coach when he made an elite 8 run last year......so you're wasting your breath asking for it. They're outright bad this year.........there's no one here "accepting" that. Actually... Some are actively asking for a "firing". Some, say should have been before last year. Some, simply post factual info regarding WT's tenure knowing full well a firing isn't going to happen in these financial times. Others actual offer support (excuses), as seen above several times and in other threads. Hence, "support" is indeed accepting of the current and past conditions that have lead to this and other threads. Then, others simply stereotype all threads into whatever category they want. Seldom a factual opinion on the actual topic one way or another. Just incorrect assumptions on posters themselves. Seems to make them feel superior? More in tune with the board? You tell us. Do you have an actual take on the topic? I'll not try to assume for other posters, but most everyone here realizes WT will not be fired. But, again it's a message board so venting comments are pretty typical. Right? Even if not "realistic"? Let us know. |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Dec 15, 2021 11:29:48 GMT -8
I refuse to accept your accepting mediocrity post. I don't think anyone is "accepting" anything. Just saying that they're not going to fire a coach when he made an elite 8 run last year......so you're wasting your breath asking for it. They're outright bad this year.........there's no one here "accepting" that. Actually... Some are actively asking for a "firing". Some, say should have been before last year. Some, simply post factual info regarding WT's tenure knowing full well a firing isn't going to happen in these financial times. Others actual offer support (excuses), as seen above several times and in other threads. Hence, "support" is indeed accepting of the current and past conditions that have lead to this and other threads. Then, others simply stereotype all threads into whatever category they want. Seldom a factual opinion on the actual topic one way or another. Just incorrect assumptions on posters themselves. Seems to make them feel superior? More in tune with the board? You tell us. Do you have an actual take on the topic? I'll not try to assume for other posters, but most everyone here realizes WT will not be fired. But, again it's a message board so venting comments are pretty typical. Right? Even if not "realistic"? Let us know. You're not trying hard enough based on your first paragraph alone. And, you should look in the mirror regarding your "feel superior" sentence. |
|
|
|
Post by seastape on Dec 15, 2021 11:33:29 GMT -8
Where are WTs backers? They sure were loud after three weeks of decent basketball nine months ago. Some of us saw the future others were giddy after those three weeks. I was all for Tinkle getting a new contract after the Elite 8 run. That was not decent basketball; that was outstanding basketball. OSU beat good team after good team and was in the game against Houston to the end. Before that, I was not a huge Tinkle fan. It's been easy to revert back to that sentiment this season. It is very disappointing to see how badly coached the team is this year. In the Davis game, we managed to make two mediocre guards look good on defense and on offense it looked like there was no plan or ability to get to the basket. The passing-the-ball-back-anf-forth-at-the-three-point-arc-for-15-seconds every possession has gotten old, especially with how often UC Davis saw it coming. Won't give up, though. Some of the new guys are pretty good and only two guys from last year's team got significant minutes last night. If Tinkle can turn things around and get the team to gel by the end of the season, at least there will be some hope for next year. Not holding my breath. |
|
|
|
Post by beaversproud on Dec 15, 2021 11:50:48 GMT -8
Wayne Tinkle takes team to elite 8, which will generate over 100K for OSU for the next 6-7 years. One of the better coaches OSU has had in years. They give him a 300k raise. www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2021/04/wayne-tinkles-new-oregon-state-coaching-contract-worth-some-172-million-over-six-years.htmlroughly a 14% increase? No mention of raises for the assistant coaches, no increase in budget/facilities mentioned. We can all agree Gill is 'dated'.... Basically all 'they' Barnes did was give the coach a 12% raise going up to idk 20% or so by the end of the contract. John Smith makes 1 bowl game. And FYI OSU will probably lose mountains of money going to this bowl game... Salary increase from 2.5 million to 3.25 million, 750,00 roughly 33%? has moderate increases (Like WT) until 2026 when the increase jumps to 750,000k again, www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2021/11/oregon-state-football-coach-jonathan-smiths-new-deal-worth-226-million-for-next-six-years-includes-extension-clause.htmlPlus there are increases for assistant coaches, support staff, they get a new South side to the stadium...... Who else is going to come here when (1) The fan base jumps ship at an adversity (see posts from any bad opening season), (2) The Athletics Director, through his actions (or lack there of), clearly has no desire to support and provide the resources to win. So you want to get rid of WT..... Why would any coach come here? why would you risk losing an ok coach who everyone likes (globally) and has no off court issues? Also, I believe Barnes was not well liked at Pitt either(?) So maybe, instead of being mad at WT.... you should direct, at least SOME, of you anger and displeasure to the person Captaining the ship. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 15, 2021 12:06:28 GMT -8
So maybe, instead of being mad at WT.... you should direct, at least SOME, of you anger and displeasure to the person Captaining the ship.
So we should be mad at Barnes for finally getting the new west grandstand built; for hiring a football coach who has us back in bowl games; for hiring a men's soccer coach who just had us the No. 1 seed in the NCAA tournament after winning the Pac-12; for hiring a women's soccer coach who vastly improved that program; for hiring a baseball coach who had the full endorsement of our 3-time NCAA championship coach and directed a rather untalented team to a regional final; for hiring a track/CC coach who has dramatically improved that program, because he hasn't fired the MBB coach 10 games after he led us to a Pac-12 tournament title and to the Elite 8 of the NCAA tournament?
I'm confused here.
|
|
|
|
Post by beaversrock on Dec 15, 2021 12:21:19 GMT -8
There is absolutely no reason Wayne Tinke should have been extended out to six years for 6 game run. That is on Barnes. Totally wrong. And now after one decent football season he extends Smith out to 6 years. Whatever happened to coaches getting 4 years for recruiting purposes? Pay raises yes but 6 years is insane when they can leave for a very small buyout but we are stuck paying a terrible basketball coach for the next 6 years. And why we are talking about Barnes why is our volleyball coach still employed?
|
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Dec 15, 2021 13:08:30 GMT -8
I'm honestly at a loss. This team should not be as bad as it is regardless of who the coach is. Alatishe took 3 shots last night, fewest he's ever taken in a game while in an OSU jersey. He had 2 rebounds, the second fewest he's ever had as a Beaver (he had 1 rebound last year vs. Arizona). One play from last night is seared in my brain where Majon just blew by whomever was supposed to be guarding him, and there was no help whatsoever because Alatishe was jogging down the court with his back turned to the ball two steps away from his man on the weak side. I think Rand ended up getting to the play too late and goaltended, but had a look of total exasperation on his face like "where the hell was everyone else?"
I'm not picking on Alatishe, because it's not like he hasn't had good games this season. Several other guys have no-showed from time to time too. I said earlier we needed to pare down the roster, and via injury last night we were able to do that. 8 guys played a majority of the minutes, with Taylor and Johnson only getting 5 minutes each. XMK played 10 minutes, but the other 7 guys played at least 15 minutes. It didn't matter.
I don't know what's going on, but there almost has to be something beyond coaching going on to explain how terrible they've played so far this year.
|
|
|
|
Post by beaverstever on Dec 15, 2021 13:35:42 GMT -8
I'm honestly at a loss. This team should not be as bad as it is regardless of who the coach is. Alatishe took 3 shots last night, fewest he's ever taken in a game while in an OSU jersey. He had 2 rebounds, the second fewest he's ever had as a Beaver (he had 1 rebound last year vs. Arizona). One play from last night is seared in my brain where Majon just blew by whomever was supposed to be guarding him, and there was no help whatsoever because Alatishe was jogging down the court with his back turned to the ball two steps away from his man on the weak side. I think Rand ended up getting to the play too late and goaltended, but had a look of total exasperation on his face like "where the hell was everyone else?" I'm not picking on Alatishe, because it's not like he hasn't had good games this season. Several other guys have no-showed from time to time too. I said earlier we needed to pare down the roster, and via injury last night we were able to do that. 8 guys played a majority of the minutes, with Taylor and Johnson only getting 5 minutes each. XMK played 10 minutes, but the other 7 guys played at least 15 minutes. It didn't matter. I don't know what's going on, but there almost has to be something beyond coaching going on to explain how terrible they've played so far this year. I'm with you on the mystery. OSU was VERY good defensively last year when they made their run, and it was clearly accomplished by a huge amount of good coaching. Their ability to mix defenses, even in the same possession was remarkable - no way was that luck. They definitely had luck at times, especially having someone consistently get hot to find enough offense, but the defense was the real deal. I am completely baffled how very little of the has carried over, given the number of returners that should be leaders. I fully expected to be able to win most of our games this season so far simply with holding opponents scoring way down and getting lots of offensive rebounds to overcome cold shooting. None of that is happening, at least not to the degree of which they are capable. Allowing UC Davis to shoot 51% on our home floor is just terrible - this team cannot win games without a good shooting % delta, and they should be fully capable of creating a big one against our pre-season teams. |
|
|
|
Post by seastape on Dec 15, 2021 15:42:01 GMT -8
I'm honestly at a loss. This team should not be as bad as it is regardless of who the coach is. Alatishe took 3 shots last night, fewest he's ever taken in a game while in an OSU jersey. He had 2 rebounds, the second fewest he's ever had as a Beaver (he had 1 rebound last year vs. Arizona). One play from last night is seared in my brain where Majon just blew by whomever was supposed to be guarding him, and there was no help whatsoever because Alatishe was jogging down the court with his back turned to the ball two steps away from his man on the weak side. I think Rand ended up getting to the play too late and goaltended, but had a look of total exasperation on his face like "where the hell was everyone else?" I'm not picking on Alatishe, because it's not like he hasn't had good games this season. Several other guys have no-showed from time to time too. I said earlier we needed to pare down the roster, and via injury last night we were able to do that. 8 guys played a majority of the minutes, with Taylor and Johnson only getting 5 minutes each. XMK played 10 minutes, but the other 7 guys played at least 15 minutes. It didn't matter. I don't know what's going on, but there almost has to be something beyond coaching going on to explain how terrible they've played so far this year. I'm with you on the mystery. OSU was VERY good defensively last year when they made their run, and it was clearly accomplished by a huge amount of good coaching. Their ability to mix defenses, even in the same possession was remarkable - no way was that luck. They definitely had luck at times, especially having someone consistently get hot to find enough offense, but the defense was the real deal. I am completely baffled how very little of the has carried over, given the number of returners that should be leaders. I fully expected to be able to win most of our games this season so far simply with holding opponents scoring way down and getting lots of offensive rebounds to overcome cold shooting. None of that is happening, at least not to the degree of which they are capable. Allowing UC Davis to shoot 51% on our home floor is just terrible - this team cannot win games without a good shooting % delta, and they should be fully capable of creating a big one against our pre-season teams. Agree with you both: What's going on? Morale seems to be dropping as a lot of the players hang their heads and give up after only a little bit adversity. There seems to be no excitement, no urgency, no will to fight to the last second. No one is stepping up to be a Charlie Hustle type of player a la Zach Reichle. No one looks like they are having fun. Moribund. They should be stomping teams like UC Davis and having a good time doing it. But there's no verve. It's like watching Eeyore and Snuffaluffagus out there. |
|
|
|
Post by joecool on Dec 15, 2021 15:58:42 GMT -8
The laughingstock of college basketball again. How bad does it have to get? Aside from a lucky run last year, this program is dead. Oh well, I'm going to enjoy one last football game and get ready for baseball season.
|
|
|
|
Post by shelby on Dec 15, 2021 16:17:39 GMT -8
I watched to the very end last night!
This was a truly horrific performance.
Realize we are either ‘hobbled’ , or missing some keys to being able to put a competitive team on the floor .
1) We do not have an even ‘average’ center. We have a bunch of athletic ‘leaders’ that crowd around under the hoop, rather than snatching the rebound and starting the fast break
2) We do not run plays ( basic offense or anything designed to get either an open jumper or a drive to the hoop )
3) Defensively, we were totally lost, until we went to zone for a short serie or until we went full court - man to man! We caught up and ‘then stopped’ what was working.
4) Guys we are missing; Calloo, Andela, Hunt , etc. These guys at least put in quality minutes
5) Alatishe was under-utilized and this hurt
6) Just like last game, we let a 5’9” guard drive the lane untouched and unimpeded for easy scores. I think he ended up with 30 plus points and he single handed my crushed every shot we had at making an effective comeback.
7) LUCAS gets a hot hand and then he hardly sees the ball again
Pretty hard not to see what had to be done on the floor -
but ?
|
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 15, 2021 19:01:41 GMT -8
Reichle moving on might be a bigger factor than a lot of people realize. Effort can be contagious and I personally think he was a lot better defensive player than some seem to believe. He might not have received a lot of minutes playing time some games, but he was a leader in many ways.
|
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on Dec 15, 2021 19:45:35 GMT -8
Reichle moving on might be a bigger factor than a lot of people realize. Effort can be contagious and I personally think he was a lot better defensive player than some seem to believe. He might not have received a lot of minutes playing time some games, but he was a leader in many ways. If a coach can actually recruit and keep players around 4-5 seasons there's a greater chance they become an integral part of the program on and off the court. Leadership, mentoring younger/newer players to the system/league/school, and being ready to contribute whenever their # is called. WT just depended on the portal too heavily, and could not bring in HS players to any significant degree to bolster transfers. I do not think he's a great teacher of the game, especially in terms of making the complex seem simple. If players are around 2-3 years they begin to not only learn the system, but his personality and temperament. Trying to bring in 5-7 newbies and losing the only veteran leaders was a time bomb waiting to happen. He bit off more than he could chew and the lack of success recruiting HS players has caught up. Unless he catches lightning in a bottle with his next group of transfers, he's 2-3 recruiting classes of HS players away from developing any system players that have the leadership and acumen needed for a solid Pac12 team. But, some seem to gloss over the fact that even many of the portal kids are true projects in their own right. They were not key players at their previous stops. Kids who can run and jump are all over the place. True D1 talent with hoops IQ that just needs playing time to develop is a bit harder to come by. OSU has a lot of the former. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverbeliever71 on Dec 15, 2021 20:39:11 GMT -8
Was waiting for it... the last bastion of support is always the lowest bar possible! Support WT by comparing him to the past coaches. When no one has ever stated such a comparison as a reason to fire WT it's always the main reason to support him. Excuses after excuses. By March he could have two of the worst seasons in OSU hoops history on his resume. Maybe 30-35 games under .500 in league play. He has zero credibility in recruiting Pac12 level talent, especially the last 4-5 seasons. But, lets keep accepting mediocrity... at best! Funny, how some must see WT as OSU's best option moving forward. Like OSU and a Pac12 HCing job wouldn't attract lots of talented coaching possibilities. You wonder if these same folks had the same opinion on MR and football. We're they haters? Supporters? Afraid there was no way a equal or better coach that could possibly want the OSU job?? I mean isn't OSU WBB like the perfect example of finding a great coach at the most I likely level? Familiar to some who knew if GF, but certainly not on a regional, national level in terms of D1. MBB isn't at the level of where WBB was, but the point is that there are 100's of highly talented coaches out there. And luckily OSU is in an attractive conference. Folks want Pac12 jobs. I refuse to accept your accepting mediocrity post. I don't think anyone is "accepting" anything. Just saying that they're not going to fire a coach when he made an elite 8 run last year......so you're wasting your breath asking for it. They're outright bad this year.........there's no one here "accepting" that. Accepting mediocrity seems to be the fall back narrative posters like to use |
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on Dec 15, 2021 21:44:50 GMT -8
I refuse to accept your accepting mediocrity post. I don't think anyone is "accepting" anything. Just saying that they're not going to fire a coach when he made an elite 8 run last year......so you're wasting your breath asking for it. They're outright bad this year.........there's no one here "accepting" that. Accepting mediocrity seems to be the fall back narrative posters like to use Sort of like comparing to past coaches/records as support for said mediocrity? That fall back?🤔 |
|
