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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 4, 2021 19:32:58 GMT -8
Despite what Grackle and some others think, I believe we way overachieved this season. Making an NCAA regional with only one position player who makes a scout's eyes pop - Melton, and he was hurt for the last month - is a nice accomplishment.
Did we lose some games we could have won? Yes, but IMHO that's mostly because of talent deficiencies, not because of coaching. Tough to blame coaching for blowing numerous 9th-inning leads. At some point, your veteran players must produce. And several in particular did not.
We had one position player - Melton - who would have received significant PT on the 2005-07, 2013-14 and 2017-18 OSU teams (Preston, Army, Claunch were part-timers at best). Our best pitcher (take your pick) would have been no better than the No. 3 or No. 4 starter on any of those teams and the closer from the 17-18 teams, while the same guy, was nowhere near as good as he was then.
Does Mitch have things to learn? Of course. But I want to see what he can do with his own players, with a full off-season routine of conditioning and lifting, with new recruits, and a spring practice/regular season unaffected by Covid, before I rush to judgement.
I expect other's mileage may vary.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jun 4, 2021 19:47:58 GMT -8
I don't disagree mostly....
The pitching staff is concerning though. Lots of K's, good ERA, but lots of free passes, and meltdowns to lose leads.....behind in counts leading to serving up pitches......etc.
Some of this can attributed to youth, but not all of it. At the end of the day, our staff was too sloppy, and it cost us important games, and series. Dorman has a lot to prove as the pitching coach moving forward. The pitching staff is not lacking in talent.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jun 4, 2021 19:55:11 GMT -8
I don't disagree mostly.... The pitching staff is concerning though. Lots of K's, good ERA, but lots of free passes, and meltdowns to lose leads.....behind in counts leading to serving up pitches......etc. Some of this can attributed to youth, but not all of it. At the end of the day, our staff was too sloppy, and it cost us important games, and series. Dorman has a lot to prove as the pitching coach moving forward. The pitching staff is not lacking in talent. Let’s hope Dorman can tell them to throw strikes next year. Maybe he should stop telling them to walk/hit guys. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jun 4, 2021 19:55:18 GMT -8
Also, the usage, or timing of pulling pitchers/not pulling pitchers seemed to be lacking.....but what do I know?
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jun 4, 2021 19:56:07 GMT -8
I don't disagree mostly.... The pitching staff is concerning though. Lots of K's, good ERA, but lots of free passes, and meltdowns to lose leads.....behind in counts leading to serving up pitches......etc. Some of this can attributed to youth, but not all of it. At the end of the day, our staff was too sloppy, and it cost us important games, and series. Dorman has a lot to prove as the pitching coach moving forward. The pitching staff is not lacking in talent. Let’s hope Dorman can tell them to throw strikes next year. Maybe he should stop telling them to walk/hit guys. Well he's the leader and his staff underperformed......some of the blame goes to the leader |
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Post by Ruh Roh Beav on Jun 4, 2021 19:57:59 GMT -8
Hey I’ve been one to gripe about MC on some of his game calling decisions....I think we should have won a few more games. That being said, we have a good squad (not the marquee players like the 17 & 18 teams). I don’t agree with your statement that we way overachieved.....just because the marquee guys aren’t here....the pieces are there to have a good team that can do some damage in this tournament......I’m not sold on MC. I do agree with Grackle that we could have gotten a marquee coach. THAT being said, we are where we are so I’m gonna be supportive of MC .....I expect him to adjust to the college game and improve
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Post by Judge Smails on Jun 4, 2021 20:00:31 GMT -8
Let’s hope Dorman can tell them to throw strikes next year. Maybe he should stop telling them to walk/hit guys. Well he's the leader and his staff underperformed......some of the blame goes to the leader Well, hopefully Dorman’s pitching game 2 and can fill up the zone. By the way, he’s been the leader for just over 1 year. Maybe give him a little time? |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jun 4, 2021 20:02:25 GMT -8
Hey I’ve been one to gripe about MC on some of his game calling decisions....I think we should have won a few more games. That being said, we have a good squad (not the marquee players like the 17 & 18 teams). I don’t agree with your statement that we way overachieved.....just because the marquee guys aren’t here....the pieces are there to have a good team that can do some damage in this tournament......I’m not sold on MC. I do agree with Grackle that we could have gotten a marquee coach. THAT being said, we are where we are so I’m gonna be supportive of MC .....I expect him to adjust to the college game and improve Please name said “marquee” coach that wanted to come to Corvallis. It’s not the dream job that many of you think it is. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jun 4, 2021 20:07:08 GMT -8
Well he's the leader and his staff underperformed......some of the blame goes to the leader Well, hopefully Dorman’s pitching game 2 and can fill up the zone. By the way, he’s been the leader for just over 1 year. Maybe give him a little time? Absolutely......I'm not saying he's a horrible pitching coach. There are many factors that go into a pitching staff. The reality is though, for this season we had a talented staff that came up small routinely in the big moments, especially against the best competition. And I'm not talking about best pitches vs best hitting. It was walking in runs, HBP, and basically mental meltdowns. I would say overall the mental toughness of this staff is not where it needs to be.....maybe that changes moving forward I dunno. But we can only go on results so far. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 4, 2021 20:23:16 GMT -8
Funny thing is, the two guys on our pitching staff who "underperformed" the most were 4- and 5-year veterans, holdovers from the previous PC, who Dorman had very little input in developing. You wouldn't think they would need a whole lot of coaching at this point.
The younger guys he has helped mold and coached for one or two seasons - Hjerpe, Washburn, Salgado, Frisch, Townsend, Pfennigs - were mostly the best guys on our staff, with excellent SO/W ratios.
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Post by shelby on Jun 4, 2021 20:29:13 GMT -8
Pretty much a Jekyll and Hyde season !
Brief moments of brilliance from the three legged stool ( pitching, hitting and defense ).
Then, total collapses in other moments throughout the season !
At the beginning of the season, they put the wrong guys on the field .
Then, realizing this, wholesale changes were made, game to game, rather than tweaking to fine tune the situation !
Took them too long to get Melton, Fuchs, Meckler and Forrester into the lineup- and we had no ( or very little ), offensive strategy to deal with our ineffective pitching starts , early in the games. Then, late in games, we suffered from a lack of a middle reliever that could be consistent !
This Beaver team proved, beyond a doubt, that statistics do lie !
Really a wasted year from most angles !
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jun 4, 2021 20:29:40 GMT -8
Funny thing is, the two guys on our pitching staff who "underperformed" the most were 4- and 5-year veterans, holdovers from the previous PC, who Dorman had very little input in developing. You wouldn't think they would need a whole lot of coaching at this point. The younger guys he has helped mold and coached for one or two seasons - Hjerpe, Washburn, Salgado, Frisch, Townsend, Pfennigs - were mostly the best guys on our staff, with excellent SO/W ratios. Well, I said it at the beginning of the season...it's not ground breaking analysis, but we go as Abel goes, and his performance this season kind of sums up our team. Beyond that, I think our staff was over-rated prolly. And I am optimistic that we will get better. All the guys you mentioned, and I'll throw in Watkins and Lawson......that Lawson kid showed pretty good stuff in limited innings. I'm definitely willing to give Dorman a pass and more time...Go Beavs! |
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Post by chinmusic on Jun 5, 2021 13:42:21 GMT -8
Interesting comments, may I comment on a couple?
I see some posters have the notion that we could have hired a marquee coach insttead of young MC. What I never see are two issues with that proclamation. 1) Who are these marquee coaches that might consider the OSU job? 2) Why would they consider OSU a plum? Yes, we have a great school, setting and tradition but every coach knows his security depends on his ability to meet the school's/fans expectations so winning is mandatory regardless of the other "attractions". 3) How will you compensate this marquee coach? First, marquee coaches are usually employed and most are earning more than OSU might be able to offer. I don't see a cash-strapped athletic department or a booster group that can afford a big $ coach. Arizona has an assistant coach that is in our guy's $ range. If those questions can be answered, it might help clear up this "marquee coach" thing.
Yes, our team is inconsistent. Two facts might help explain some of that. 1) We had 3 Seniors on this team. 2) 37 squad members are eligible to retun in 2022. We are a young team.
There is always a period of adjustment for a new coaching staff. Like with any job, you are more profient after doing it over a period of time. Our situation might have required more adjustment as a group of professional players and coaches adjusted to returning to the college game as coaches as opposed to being players.
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Post by Ruh Roh Beav on Jun 5, 2021 14:23:31 GMT -8
Our MC hire was one made inside the box. We were confined to choosing between MC, Yeskie and Bailey........that was it. Sometimes you need to look outside the box which we could have done...time will tell with MC. My definition of marquee is probably different than some.....I don’t have any specific names of coaches in mind but being constrained to just those three wasn’t the best way to do it
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jun 5, 2021 14:45:15 GMT -8
Interesting comments, may I comment on a couple? I see some posters have the notion that we could have hired a marquee coach insttead of young MC. What I never see are two issues with that proclamation. 1) Who are these marquee coaches that might consider the OSU job? 2) Why would they consider OSU a plum? Yes, we have a great school, setting and tradition but every coach knows his security depends on his ability to meet the school's/fans expectations so winning is mandatory regardless of the other "attractions". 3) How will you compensate this marquee coach? First, marquee coaches are usually employed and most are earning more than OSU might be able to offer. I don't see a cash-strapped athletic department or a booster group that can afford a big $ coach. Arizona has an assistant coach that is in our guy's $ range. If those questions can be answered, it might help clear up this "marquee coach" thing. Yes, our team is inconsistent. Two facts might help explain some of that. 1) We had 3 Seniors on this team. 2) 37 squad members are eligible to retun in 2022. We are a young team. There is always a period of adjustment for a new coaching staff. Like with any job, you are more profient after doing it over a period of time. Our situation might have required more adjustment as a group of professional players and coaches adjusted to returning to the college game as coaches as opposed to being players. The program has high expectations yearly now. That's a good thing, but if expectations are not met, realistic or not, fans get antsy. Plus, we've had plenty of heart breaking losses that were more of the "choking in big moments" variety then just flat out getting beat by a better team......it's a mental game, and sometimes teams are mentally tough, sometimes not.....I would say an example of a NOT mentally tough team would be the Gators in their regional.....I'm hoping our mental meltdowns are more a product of youth, and will be addressed moving forward. Good coaching staffs get their players to believe.....see Pat Casey.....and we've seen it happen with this team too. They've shown resiliency at times. I don't see too much call to dump Canham on here, but I've seen plenty on other forms of social media. It's ridiculous. We need a few more seasons of data to see how MC's recruiting and development work out. And pining for what could've been with Yeskie is a waste of time. We have MC for better or worse. Next season will be a big one for Coach Dorman, imo. He will have a stable of talented arms, and we should rank near the top of the conference in pitching......will the free passes get cleaned up? Will the staff live up to expectations? I honestly feel like moving on from Abel will be healthy for the staff..... |
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