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Post by rmancarl on Jan 25, 2021 11:47:15 GMT -8
Sparty, depending on who returns, I would put down big money that next year's team is much better than .500. Much better! But you are looking at it as if everyone else in the Pac-12 is the same as this year. Who is trending down in the Pac-12 next year and who will be trending up? Maybe I should have said next year finish around 5th to 6th in the conference. Next year will be one of the most difficult to predict until we do find out who returns for each team. In my thinking (and my hopes) we have a regular non-conference schedule next year, which should get the season off to a good start. Pac12 will still be a challenge, but let's see who returns for each team. Beavs could be really good if Kennedy doesn't struggle as others have who have returned from major injuries....and perhaps Taya could finally show us more aggression around the basket. |
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Post by gowenbeavs on Jan 25, 2021 11:54:29 GMT -8
The two biggest issues I see with this team - leadership and rebounding instincts. Unfortunately two skills of the game you can't teach. I'm sure Aleah and Taya are great teammates but game timer leadership is not in their DNA. SR can coach rebounding skills to an adequate level (still waiting) but a good rebounding team requires players to have instincts and desire that I'm not seeing.
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Post by beaveragain on Jan 25, 2021 11:57:53 GMT -8
On the talk about Rueck not recruiting the right people. This year he thought he'd have had Destiny and Kennedy playing until he found out different last season. Recruiting at the level the OSU is doing these days is not a one year proposition. It takes years to get these kids to consider you, and with one year to look he got Faustino and Mack. Not what he would normally have done. This isn't Stanford where ranked recruits can be stockpiled.
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Post by ricke71 on Jan 25, 2021 12:35:26 GMT -8
....Or even their Field of 64 records. Unless my math is wrong, one of the 2 coaches is 15-6 in NCAA Tournaments at OSU since 2014....the other is 0-1 in NCAA Tournaments at OSU since 2015. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. So what you and Beaveragain are saying is that as long as a coach has a history of success his or her current performance can't be questioned. What is the statute of limitations on past success? Should they never be questioned? When they have back to back losing seasons? When the dip below .500 win percentage? Or never? Thanks for explaining "what" (I) "was saying". Hmmmm. Not sure what the 'statute of limitations' is, but in the past 59 months, Rueck's teams have had: 1 Final Four, 1 Elite 8, and 2 Sweet 16's. What I was really saying is that Rueck has a pretty damn good record, including post-season - and it's quite unlikely that he's forgotten how to coach. As far as questioning his "current performance" - from my standpoint as a layperson/fan, I don't believe that I'm qualified to dissect his performance. What I know about coaching D-1 WBB would not even partially fill a small thimble. |
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Post by ricke71 on Jan 25, 2021 12:52:00 GMT -8
This was the 4th OT game WSU has played in their last 5 games (now 2-2 in them). Home vs. UA (win), @usc (L), @ucla (L), @osu (W). Sandwiched in there is an 8pt loss @uo. That's a pretty wild run. On this team in general, I see them not getting the most out of the talent they have, and the talent they have is not enough to win consistently in this conference. We've seen that happen to a lot of teams in the conference over the years - not playing up to the level of the roster, it's just really unusual to see it happen to an SR team. The missing ingredient to me is the cultural leader of a Wiese/Mik that made the talent work together. Aleah really has tried hard to be that player IMO, but it often works against her in that it forces her to play outside of her strengths (yesterday's game not a good example of that though). There doesn't appear to be anybody else on the roster that can do that, especially somebody that isn't a frosh. Talia getting 20 mins with almost zero practice time speaks volumes to me, and not in a good way. There's no way she could have earned her time, and they have to really shorten their call sets and defensive sets for her to not be completely lost out there. Yet there she is, getting 3x the mins of Samuel in an OT game. This wasn't a last-chance game to get her some minutes, this is a mid-season tight game where she gets baptized by Molina on Pac-12 aggressive D. That said, down years happen, and there were signals we were in trouble. Faustino's recruitment signaled what we all know - major recruiting gap at PG that had gotten desperate. I felt from her highlight videos that she lacked the athleticism to compete, but hoped she had some deceptive Euro skills that I was missing. I thought Mack's game would translate more directly than it did in the Pac-12, and it just isn't happening; that development now also looks like it was a warning signal for this year. That said, next year there shouldn't be the same gaps, particularly with Kennedy back. We out rebounded WSU, but still -7 on offensive rebounds - a healthy KB should fix that. It also appears we will have in our young guards players that see the floor better overall. Talia made a couple of nice cross-court pass that shifted the defense and set up easier entry pass to Jones for easy buckets - this bodes well if this indicates her game acumen; this team has generally lacked an understanding of how to get the most from Jones so far, and hopefully that's finally changing. In any case, that's the type of things I'm hoping to see develop over the rest of this otherwise forgettable season. Thanks for the excellent commentary. Regarding Talia - her court-sense passing showed huge promise. "Talia getting 20 mins with almost zero practice time speaks volumes to me, and not in a good way. There's no way she could have earned her time..." On the other hand (in a "good way") she is one of the highest ranked recruits in program history. In pregame comments SR sated that she was as talented of player as he's ever coached...maybe that's what happens when, due to COVID, an elite prospect lands in Corvallis, and one of the guards that Rueck expected to be around this season is 2,000 miles to the east. |
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Post by newduke2 on Jan 25, 2021 12:53:42 GMT -8
I don't care if I wasn't specific enough for you. Beavs are got killed on the O glass. Maybe you are Ok with that. I'm not. Carry on. Sorry dude, I can only respond to what you write. Specificity is important. Carry on. I clarified my original comment, as is common place for folks to do. But apparently you don't like, don't comprehend, or don't accept my clarification. But, yeah, keep going on and on about my original statement...ie, carry on...you must not have anything better to do. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jan 25, 2021 13:18:28 GMT -8
So what you and Beaveragain are saying is that as long as a coach has a history of success his or her current performance can't be questioned. What is the statute of limitations on past success? Should they never be questioned? When they have back to back losing seasons? When the dip below .500 win percentage? Or never? WAFI. When was Rueck's last losing season? Not last year nor several before that. In fact his ability to turn a total dumpster fire into a winning program in just a few seasons is amazing. Anyone that judges a program on this season with all of it's starts and stops not just games but also practices is just being a dumbass troll. Personally I think a college coach should be judged on more than just their win/loss record. Rueck's players have a history of academic excellence and community service. WIFI. I don't know, nor do I really particularly care. He has done an amazing job, I agree. The next line is funny, as if there's never been any cases on this forum where someone posting can't be accused of "being a dumbass troll". I just find it interesting, and pointed out that Rueck and the program seem beyond reproach on "Bernice's Place", unlike every other coach, including Pat Casey. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jan 25, 2021 13:23:23 GMT -8
So what you and Beaveragain are saying is that as long as a coach has a history of success his or her current performance can't be questioned. What is the statute of limitations on past success? Should they never be questioned? When they have back to back losing seasons? When the dip below .500 win percentage? Or never? Thanks for explaining "what" (I) "was saying". Hmmmm. Not sure what the 'statute of limitations' is, but in the past 59 months, Rueck's teams have had: 1 Final Four, 1 Elite 8, and 2 Sweet 16's. What I was really saying is that Rueck has a pretty damn good record, including post-season - and it's quite unlikely that he's forgotten how to coach. As far as questioning his "current performance" - from my standpoint as a layperson/fan, I don't believe that I'm qualified to dissect his performance. What I know about coaching D-1 WBB would not even partially fill a small thimble. Sorry, yes, that should have been a question mark but I ran out of time to edit. Yes, yes, yes, I get it, and will yet again point out that I never questioned his success. He's done great! Good for him and Oregon State. By the way, if this board was limited to discussions only by people who are qualified to coach anything at the D-1 level it would be a pretty lonely, boring place. That's kind of one of the major reasons for sports forums existence. |
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Post by jimbob on Jan 25, 2021 19:36:47 GMT -8
This was the 4th OT game WSU has played in their last 5 games (now 2-2 in them). Home vs. UA (win), @usc (L), @ucla (L), @osu (W). Sandwiched in there is an 8pt loss @uo. That's a pretty wild run. On this team in general, I see them not getting the most out of the talent they have, and the talent they have is not enough to win consistently in this conference. We've seen that happen to a lot of teams in the conference over the years - not playing up to the level of the roster, it's just really unusual to see it happen to an SR team. The missing ingredient to me is the cultural leader of a Wiese/Mik that made the talent work together. Aleah really has tried hard to be that player IMO, but it often works against her in that it forces her to play outside of her strengths (yesterday's game not a good example of that though). There doesn't appear to be anybody else on the roster that can do that, especially somebody that isn't a frosh. Talia getting 20 mins with almost zero practice time speaks volumes to me, and not in a good way. There's no way she could have earned her time, and they have to really shorten their call sets and defensive sets for her to not be completely lost out there. Yet there she is, getting 3x the mins of Samuel in an OT game. This wasn't a last-chance game to get her some minutes, this is a mid-season tight game where she gets baptized by Molina on Pac-12 aggressive D. That said, down years happen, and there were signals we were in trouble. Faustino's recruitment signaled what we all know - major recruiting gap at PG that had gotten desperate. I felt from her highlight videos that she lacked the athleticism to compete, but hoped she had some deceptive Euro skills that I was missing. I thought Mack's game would translate more directly than it did in the Pac-12, and it just isn't happening; that development now also looks like it was a warning signal for this year. That said, next year there shouldn't be the same gaps, particularly with Kennedy back. We out rebounded WSU, but still -7 on offensive rebounds - a healthy KB should fix that. It also appears we will have in our young guards players that see the floor better overall. Talia made a couple of nice cross-court pass that shifted the defense and set up easier entry pass to Jones for easy buckets - this bodes well if this indicates her game acumen; this team has generally lacked an understanding of how to get the most from Jones so far, and hopefully that's finally changing. In any case, that's the type of things I'm hoping to see develop over the rest of this otherwise forgettable season. I'm totally with you about Talia getting 20+minutes with almost zero practice time while one of the few bright spots on our team so far this year got only 7 min. in a crucial tight must win game and I'm referring to Savannah whose speed, quickness, and energy has made things happen whenever she has got to play this year! And then to top it off SR had Talia in the game and Sasha on the bench for most of the 2nd OT--only putting Sasha back in for the final minute???.....that was mind-boggling to me....I watched Talia closely during that OT and she did absolutely nothing except fill up a space running up and down the floor...it appeared to me that she was just trying to stay out of the way of her teammates during that crucial final OT....this SR move in the final OT is why we lost the game in my opinion. |
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Post by gwh16 on Jan 25, 2021 20:47:00 GMT -8
The only person qualified to comment on coaching is........ judge smails. He said he coached and played in the past!!!!!
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Post by beaveragain on Jan 25, 2021 20:51:30 GMT -8
The only person qualified to comment on coaching is........ judge smails. He said he coached and played in the past!!!!! Or whatever he's calling himself these days. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 26, 2021 6:20:17 GMT -8
The only person qualified to comment on coaching is........ judge smails. He said he coached and played in the past!!!!! Or whatever he's calling himself these days. I’ve had the same user name for 20+ years back to the pure orange days, but OK. I agree with spud that it’s funny that no one can criticize SR without being called a troll. People criticized Casey all the time and he had 3 National Championships. SR is not even close to that level of coaching. Nobody seems to want to acknowledge that other teams in the league have caught up to us and in some cases, passed us in terms of talent, athleticism and coaching. SR is still trying to run the same stuff that is not longer working against better teams with better coaching. He needs to adapt. |
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Post by sparty on Jan 26, 2021 6:54:20 GMT -8
Or whatever he's calling himself these days. I’ve had the same user name for 20+ years back to the pure orange days, but OK. I agree with spud that it’s funny that no one can criticize SR without being called a troll. People criticized Casey all the time and he had 3 National Championships. SR is not even close to that level of coaching. Nobody seems to want to acknowledge that other teams in the league have caught up to us and in some cases, passed us in terms of talent, athleticism and coaching. SR is still trying to run the same stuff that is not longer working against better teams with better coaching. He needs to adapt. Can't disagree with what you are saying. All you have to do is look around the conference, Who is trending up and who is trending down. Some of these teams at the top have bench players that would be starting for Scott this year. |
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norm
Freshman
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Post by norm on Jan 26, 2021 8:07:53 GMT -8
I’ve had the same user name for 20+ years back to the pure orange days, but OK. I agree with spud that it’s funny that no one can criticize SR without being called a troll. People criticized Casey all the time and he had 3 National Championships. SR is not even close to that level of coaching. Nobody seems to want to acknowledge that other teams in the league have caught up to us and in some cases, passed us in terms of talent, athleticism and coaching. SR is still trying to run the same stuff that is not longer working against better teams with better coaching. He needs to adapt. Can't disagree with what you are saying. All you have to do is look around the conference, Who is trending up and who is trending down. Some of these teams at the top have bench players that would be starting for Scott this year. Stanford is always going to be toward the top. Even in down cycles, they are in the mix. For the next set of teams, it is cyclical based on recruiting and coaching. AZ had a coaching change that dramatically improved recruiting. So they are currently in an up-cycle. OR had a recruiting class that included one of the best college players ever, that vaulted them into an up-cycle. UCLA is UCLA and will always get a look from top recruits, so they will always have the potential to be in an up-cycle. OSU has experienced an up-cycle for the past several years, for the same reasons that AZ is not. The down-cycle that OSU is experiencing this season is primarily based on 2017 and 2018 recruiting. 2017 was ok. 2018 was a whiff. Add transfers and injuries to the mix. Every year teams will trend up or trend down. It's normal. I don't see a reason to lose my mind at this point. |
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Post by lotrader on Jan 26, 2021 8:29:39 GMT -8
OSU WBB, not having the benefit of a deep roster like Stanford, UO, has been hit hard by injuries to key players the past few years: Kat Tudor, AA, Taya, Kennedy Brown, and even Jelena last year. Losing significant contributors, and, then having them struggle to return to their pre-injury performance, has really hit the Beavs hard. The years where we didn't have significant injuries, we have performed very well.
I am hopeful for next year, assuming we get Aleah back, Taya uses this year to return to form, and, Kennedy has enough time to heal, and get into game shape.
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