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Post by nwhoopfan on Oct 8, 2020 20:39:07 GMT -8
There's certainly not much evidence to do this differently, even though it's become quite common to have bigs shoot 3s in the mens game. In the WNBA, there's really only Ndour that shoots any 3s at all from the center position, and not to a great impact. I don't know which one you want to call the center, but Stewie and Howard from the Storm both take 3's. Stewie in particular killed the Aces on the way to a Championship from behind the arc.
For the Lynx Dantas takes and hits plenty of 3's, Collier does as well. I realize Fowles is really their center but she was out most of the year.
Zahui B. from the Liberty takes plenty of 3's.
For the Sparks Parker and Ogwumike will both launch from deep.
I'm not sure what you're watching that makes you think WNBA post players aren't taking 3's regularly. They are. Some teams are playing small ball and/or have interchangeable frontcourt players that make it harder to determine who the "center" is, but I think they are definitely following the NBA model of bigger players drifting out to the perimeter.
Of those players Zahui B. is 6-5, Dantas 6-3, Stewie 6-4, Parker 6-4.
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Post by beaverstever on Oct 9, 2020 9:07:03 GMT -8
There's certainly not much evidence to do this differently, even though it's become quite common to have bigs shoot 3s in the mens game. In the WNBA, there's really only Ndour that shoots any 3s at all from the center position, and not to a great impact. I don't know which one you want to call the center, but Stewie and Howard from the Storm both take 3's. Stewie in particular killed the Aces on the way to a Championship from behind the arc.
For the Lynx Dantas takes and hits plenty of 3's, Collier does as well. I realize Fowles is really their center but she was out most of the year.
Zahui B. from the Liberty takes plenty of 3's.
For the Sparks Parker and Ogwumike will both launch from deep.
I'm not sure what you're watching that makes you think WNBA post players aren't taking 3's regularly. They are. Some teams are playing small ball and/or have interchangeable frontcourt players that make it harder to determine who the "center" is, but I think they are definitely following the NBA model of bigger players drifting out to the perimeter.
Of those players Zahui B. is 6-5, Dantas 6-3, Stewie 6-4, Parker 6-4.
Thanks nwhoopfan! I don't watch much WNBA outside of keeping up with alumni, so that view was just based on what I could find researching, which was limited (e.g. this article: sportsarefromvenus.com/2020/07/24/astou-ndour/) I agree that what qualifies as a 'center' these days is rapidly changing, as there are few traditional centers used in a lot of offensive styles now. As it is, seeing Kennedy have a green light last year from 3 at 6'6'" (and not to a great efficiency) says Rueck its not averse to having players with size advantage shoot from the arc. |
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Post by nwhoopfan on Oct 9, 2020 9:56:33 GMT -8
Thanks nwhoopfan ! I don't watch much WNBA outside of keeping up with alumni, so that view was just based on what I could find researching, which was limited (e.g. this article: sportsarefromvenus.com/2020/07/24/astou-ndour/) I agree that what qualifies as a 'center' these days is rapidly changing, as there are few traditional centers used in a lot of offensive styles now. As it is, seeing Kennedy have a green light last year from 3 at 6'6'" (and not to a great efficiency) says Rueck its not averse to having players with size advantage shoot from the arc. For years I didn't follow the WNBA much, watched a little more last year (mostly playoffs) and then quite a bit this year. There wasn't much else to watch. A lot of teams don't have a dominant traditional post player to begin with, but then players like Cambage, Fowles and Griner missed all or most of the season, so that changed the landscape of the league.
Bringing it back to OSU, Brown's form looks fine. I certainly hope she'll knock down 3's at a higher clip when she is able to return from injury. |
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Post by willtalk on Oct 9, 2020 16:00:24 GMT -8
6'8" should never be farther than 6' from the hoop on a set offense. In women's basketball that is usually 3+ inches taller than most other posts, and lobbing the ball in for easy layups and getting second chances because of increased offensive boards is much more important than letting her mix it up with the guards. There's certainly not much evidence to do this differently, even though it's become quite common to have bigs shoot 3s in the mens game. In the WNBA, there's really only Ndour that shoots any 3s at all from the center position, and not to a great impact. That a said, it still could be a good way to use Jelena if she's efficient enough, as I just don't see her as being a proficient offensive rebounder, despite her side. In general, players her size often get punished by refs for even attempting to get offensive rebounds because they like to reach over the top of smaller players. Still, she'd need to be a >40% 3 pt shooter to justify her taking shots out there assuming she's a 60% shooter around the basket -- and that assumes no offensive rebounds on her own shots, which of course she would get. But what has to also be figured into the mix is how many TOs we'd get forcing the ball into the post, which has been a problem for Rueck's teams. So while I doubt we ultimately do see her hanging out much on the perimeter, if she really has a smooth stroke, I can see it being utilized at times. I think being able to get the ball easier to post players might be one of the better reasons to play two bigs at one time. A lob pass into the post over the heads of defenders is probably the hardest pass to master. Basically because their are very few really tall players at the lower levels. Most high school players never see tall posts until they get to college and even then few see players like Oregon St had and has on their team. Mik ande Destiny never really mastered the lob pass while they were here. If you want an example of futility of passing into the post, you had just to watch Cal attempting to get it into Anigwe. Now it would be really effective offensively to having Jelena sometimes play the high post. Not thoughout the game but just to mix up the offense. I watched the entire game Jelenas team U18 played against Spain and she did often play the high post after setting picks. She has a fairly effective mid range game. She hit a really impressive turn and fad away at about 1:20 from about 1O ft on the elbow off the dribble. This game was more than two years ago and she still showed impressive skills. I would not suggest that Jelena and Tayor constantly play together put putting them together every now and then would certainly keep the defense on their heels. As to shooting three's she only attempted one in the Spain game and her team was well ahead when she did so. There are enough good 3pr shooters on the team so it would not be necessary for her to take them consistantly. However, under certain circumstances, such as the end of games when it might be difficult to get a shot off. Would not requite much of a play to get her or Kennedy open for a shot. I got off track as to the purpose of my post which dealt with the difficulty of feeding the post player. A taller player would find it much easier to pass to another post player because they would not need to put so much loft on the passes if they are taller than the defenders. Jelena would have little trouble passing into the post from the high post position, much as Kennedy did before her injury. Again I am not advocating her playing the high post, only that it is an option if needed. I really look forwards to this season in that it returns Oregon St to a style that was much more successful for them. Outside shooting combined with dominate post play. |
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Post by beaverstever on Oct 12, 2020 9:15:06 GMT -8
So thinking about this some more, I too find myself getting more excited about Jelena, particularly given the news on her injury progress and general mobility. I have generally had major reservations about Jelena being able to play at the Pac-12 pace and be effective for many minutes. However, if she is able to do that, she could really be special. A few things:
- I was looking at a recent picture of her posted on Instagram posted by the WBB program, and she has Shaq hands; the ball just looks tiny in her hands. I can get excited about those mitts being difficult to poke balls loose from.
- She'd be the taller player on any WNBA roster today, as far as I could find. Griner is also listed at 6'9, but I've seen her also listed at 6'8" - regardless, that's really rare size.
- Unlike what I had concerns with AA's frame, Jelena will be very difficult to move off the block. She will wear down opposing defenders just being out there; it's exhausting trying to move someone around defensively that's so much larger. She presents a dilemma for any opposing coaches; you have to push her out if defending from behind, but going over the top when fronting her should not be a difficult pass given her size. So if she gets a few easy buckets in the post, she would have to be double-teamed. Double-teaming works well for post players who don't pass well, but that's not Jelena; she looks like she can punish double-teams with the right pass.
Oh, and on the WNBA rosters, even excluding AA, it looks like OSU's roster could be the taller than any current WNBA team as well; I didn't do a full-on analysis, but seems that way. That's pretty ridiculous amount of height for a college WBB team. We just get a commitment from a 6'3" post prospect, and she's about the median height on our current roster.
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Post by jimbob on Oct 12, 2020 20:09:03 GMT -8
For those of you who are doubting Taylor Jones ability to play the 4 or PF or high post this year while Jalena is in the game at the same time....take a look at what Taylor has been working on this off-season  .....Check the video from wbosh15's post titled "Taylor Jones getting some work in" from Apr. 7th 2020. |
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Post by jimbob on Oct 12, 2020 20:42:04 GMT -8
Actually the Taylor video referenced above is a "thread" rather than a post by member wbosh15....if you are having trouble finding it search member wbosh15 and it will pop up under his recent threads dated Apr 7th and I see another member has just linked it below in the next post....Thanks for that...I'm not on Instagram and I couldn't get it to link!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 20:47:41 GMT -8
For those of you who are doubting Taylor Jones ability to play the 4 or PF or high post this year while Jalena is in the game at the same time....take a look at what Taylor has been working on this off-season .....Check the video from wbosh15's post titled "Taylor Jones getting some work in" from Apr. 7th 2020. Would that be in reference to this? www.instagram.com/tv/B-rlt90pbad/?igshid=1cdn0y1ujw0yq |
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Post by jimbob on Oct 12, 2020 20:54:37 GMT -8
Yes!...Thanks for linking it thickhead!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 21:16:32 GMT -8
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Post by beavsteve on Oct 12, 2020 21:51:59 GMT -8
It’s a dunk, but yes, is the hoop at 10’? I compared a screenshot of the dunk to one where she was engaged in shooting practice (where she clearly would want the rim at the right height) and it seems like the rim is at about the same height as during the dunk... but what do others think? It is easy to get fooled if the angle at which you are looking at it is different. There is a horizontal bar at the top that you can compare to the height of the fence. After a second look at a better angle, I think the hoop was lowered. My comment about the “horizontal bar” was wrong (deceived by the angle of the shot). Just looking at the height of the hoop vs. the height of the fence between the dunk and a FG shot from the corner, the hoop height seems changed. |
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Post by beavsteve on Oct 12, 2020 22:18:25 GMT -8
It’s a dunk, but yes, is the hoop at 10’? I compared a screenshot of the dunk to one where she was engaged in shooting practice (where she clearly would want the rim at the right height) and it seems like the rim is at about the same height as during the dunk... but what do others think? It is easy to get fooled if the angle at which you are looking at it is different. There is a horizontal bar at the top that you can compare to the height of the fence. After a second look at a better angle, I think the hoop was lowered. My comment about the “horizontal bar” was wrong (deceived by the angle of the shot). Just looking at the height of the hoop vs. the height of the fence between the dunk and a FG shot from the corner, the hoop height seems changed. I'd put my certainty at about 60%...
Photo Comparison |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 5:11:57 GMT -8
After a second look at a better angle, I think the hoop was lowered. My comment about the “horizontal bar” was wrong (deceived by the angle of the shot). Just looking at the height of the hoop vs. the height of the fence between the dunk and a FG shot from the corner, the hoop height seems changed. I'd put my certainty at about 60%...
Photo ComparisonThere's no way the basket was lowered, for the simple reason that it wouldn't need to be lowered given her height and reach. I'm 5'9" and I can reach to 7'8" on tippy-toe in shoes. She's 6'4" so a simple calculation of proportions would allow her to reach to 8'5". However, she has bigger feet than I and she is renowned for her exceptionally long arms. So let's add an inch for her feet and 5" for reach. That means she should be able to stretch as high as 8'11". She would only have to get her toes 13" off the ground in order to reach the rim, and probably 20" to do a dunk. So I want to apologize for doubting this magnificent young woman's abilities. 'beavsteve' is mistaken, yet again! The Dunk |
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Practice
Oct 13, 2020 5:50:54 GMT -8
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 13, 2020 5:50:54 GMT -8
There's no way the basket was lowered, for the simple reason that it wouldn't need to be lowered given her height and reach. I'm 5'9" and I can reach to 7'8" on tippy-toe in shoes. She's 6'4" so a simple calculation of proportions would allow her to reach to 8'5". However, she has bigger feet than I and she is renowned for her exceptionally long arms. So let's add an inch for her feet and 5" for reach. That means she should be able to stretch as high as 8'11". She would only have to get her toes 13" off the ground in order to reach the rim, and probably 20" to do a dunk. So I want to apologize for doubting this magnificent young woman's abilities. 'beavsteve' is mistaken, yet again! The DunkI’m 6’4” with long arms and I’m sorry but there is no way her reach is 8’11”. Mid 8 feet at best. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 5:56:49 GMT -8
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.....Check the video from wbosh15's post titled "Taylor Jones getting some work in" from Apr. 7th 2020.