beaver94
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Post by beaver94 on Jun 13, 2020 18:59:12 GMT -8
You're BOTH (as you clearly demonstrated, above). Don't kid yourself! Because I think what the black guy in your video is sharing is BS? LOL.
Let me ask you a question. What are you doing to help end racism in the US? What are your plans? How can we do it? Do you care?
Possibly because you disagreed with what the man in the video said and immediately called him an Uncle Tom. I guess it’s impossible that he came to his conclusions based on his own research and making his own determination. He’s instead just espousing what the evil white man told him to say. There needs to be a hard look at how police departments operate. There’s still too much racism in the world and it’s going to take a lot of work by everyone to fix it. It’s never going to be completely gone but we can make it better. |
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Post by pitbeavs on Jun 13, 2020 20:45:36 GMT -8
Because I think what the black guy in your video is sharing is BS? LOL.
That's NOT what you said, disingenuous $#!+bag. Lol Making friends, I see. You should return that Dale Carnegie book. It's not working. |
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Post by irimi on Jun 13, 2020 20:58:34 GMT -8
Because I think what the black guy in your video is sharing is BS? LOL.
Let me ask you a question. What are you doing to help end racism in the US? What are your plans? How can we do it? Do you care?
Possibly because you disagreed with what the man in the video said and immediately called him an Uncle Tom. I guess it’s impossible that he came to his conclusions based on his own research and making his own determination. He’s instead just espousing what the evil white man told him to say. There needs to be a hard look at how police departments operate. There’s still too much racism in the world and it’s going to take a lot of work by everyone to fix it. It’s never going to be completely gone but we can make it better. OK, I know that I said that would leave the conversation, but you seemed to overlook that I addressed the real point in the guy's video. The other points were silly.
1. He talked about the police killings and gave an example of a white man being killed by police as well. He does this in order to suggest that the police killings are not racially motivated.
a. My initial response, as I've said above, is that it is very important to look at why the police are using such deadly force period. Old news. Nothing new here.
b. The second response is that it is NOT fair to say that police kill white people the same way as they kill black people. Point in fact, I have yet to see a white man knelt on for 9 minutes.
c. Third, the fact that black people (and other people of color) are stopped and basically harassed by police for really no legitimate reason is evident. Ask a black friend or a latino friend if they have been stopped in the normal course of their day. See what they say.
2. He talked about anti-racism being a religion. He said that "a naive anthropologist might classify" it as such. LOL. That's a weak claim. A naive anthropologist. SMH. What would a real anthropologist say? How does it help him to say that it is a religion? Cultural anthropologists have a broad definition of religion. Certainly, if he sees anti-racism as a religion, then racism also fits the bill. So probably a lot of other ideological beliefs.
3. He goes on to say how black people kill black people, and that we should be much more concerned about that than police killing black people. It's a deceptive point because the fact that black people kill black people has no bearing whatsoever on racism or police brutality. It's a diversion tactic and you fell for it.
a. People kill people. It happens. All the statistics point to the murder knowing the victim most of the time. Likewise, the statistics show that it's often a family member. Most black people have black family members. Most white people have white family members. Duh.
b. We know that the environment in which you grow up affects your future. Your schools are right there. Your support is right there. But in the suburbs, less money is spent on police departments so more can go to education or housing services. In the cities and inner cities, more money goes to the police departments and less to education or housing. So what happens? Suburbs thrive. Inner cities do not. Teachers who are able choose to teach in the suburbs. Why? Because the job is easier. The kids are better fed. They come from more stable families. As a result, there is more value placed on education and expectations can be higher. The kids in the suburbs know that they can go off to the state college and study when they finish. If they want, they can aim even higher. The inner city kids, though, well, they have much more to overcome.
So, OK, you can call me a jerk for calling the guy an Uncle Tom. But this is the second video that I have been sent by a (presumably) white person which is a Black person arguing that the BLM movement is not important. So one must question why you would think that a video by a black guy is any better than a video by a white guy. Does he have more cred because of his skin color? LOL. That's kind of racist. And his ideas are sophomoric. So what's the point? Like my friend told me, "I'm not racist--I have a black boss." LOL!
I encourage you to keep thinking. But instead of trying to figure out why BLM is wrong, take a few minutes and look at why it could be OK. What if this movement actually helps to bring about change? Wouldn't that be good? Wouldn't that make our country a better place for more people?
Or do you have something to lose?
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beaver94
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Post by beaver94 on Jun 13, 2020 21:44:22 GMT -8
Possibly because you disagreed with what the man in the video said and immediately called him an Uncle Tom. I guess it’s impossible that he came to his conclusions based on his own research and making his own determination. He’s instead just espousing what the evil white man told him to say. There needs to be a hard look at how police departments operate. There’s still too much racism in the world and it’s going to take a lot of work by everyone to fix it. It’s never going to be completely gone but we can make it better. OK, I know that I said that would leave the conversation, but you seemed to overlook that I addressed the real point in the guy's video. The other points were silly.
1. He talked about the police killings and gave an example of a white man being killed by police as well. He does this in order to suggest that the police killings are not racially motivated.
a. My initial response, as I've said above, is that it is very important to look at why the police are using such deadly force period. Old news. Nothing new here.
b. The second response is that it is NOT fair to say that police kill white people the same way as they kill black people. Point in fact, I have yet to see a white man knelt on for 9 minutes.
c. Third, the fact that black people (and other people of color) are stopped and basically harassed by police for really no legitimate reason is evident. Ask a black friend or a latino friend if they have been stopped in the normal course of their day. See what they say.
2. He talked about anti-racism being a religion. He said that "a naive anthropologist might classify" it as such. LOL. That's a weak claim. A naive anthropologist. SMH. What would a real anthropologist say? How does it help him to say that it is a religion? Cultural anthropologists have a broad definition of religion. Certainly, if he sees anti-racism as a religion, then racism also fits the bill. So probably a lot of other ideological beliefs.
3. He goes on to say how black people kill black people, and that we should be much more concerned about that than police killing black people. It's a deceptive point because the fact that black people kill black people has no bearing whatsoever on racism or police brutality. It's a diversion tactic and you fell for it.
a. People kill people. It happens. All the statistics point to the murder knowing the victim most of the time. Likewise, the statistics show that it's often a family member. Most black people have black family members. Most white people have white family members. Duh.
b. We know that the environment in which you grow up affects your future. Your schools are right there. Your support is right there. But in the suburbs, less money is spent on police departments so more can go to education or housing services. In the cities and inner cities, more money goes to the police departments and less to education or housing. So what happens? Suburbs thrive. Inner cities do not. Teachers who are able choose to teach in the suburbs. Why? Because the job is easier. The kids are better fed. They come from more stable families. As a result, there is more value placed on education and expectations can be higher. The kids in the suburbs know that they can go off to the state college and study when they finish. If they want, they can aim even higher. The inner city kids, though, well, they have much more to overcome.
So, OK, you can call me a jerk for calling the guy an Uncle Tom. But this is the second video that I have been sent by a (presumably) white person which is a Black person arguing that the BLM movement is not important. So one must question why you would think that a video by a black guy is any better than a video by a white guy. Does he have more cred because of his skin color? LOL. That's kind of racist. And his ideas are sophomoric. So what's the point? Like my friend told me, "I'm not racist--I have a black boss." LOL!
I encourage you to keep thinking. But instead of trying to figure out why BLM is wrong, take a few minutes and look at why it could be OK. What if this movement actually helps to bring about change? Wouldn't that be good? Wouldn't that make our country a better place for more people?
Or do you have something to lose?
1. You have no idea if the police killings are racially motivated. I’m sure some are but to presume that all, or even most are, is naive. a. I agree it is important to look at why deadly force is used. Especially in cases such as the George Floyd situation. b. Do me a favor and look up the name Tony Timpa. Not exactly the same but pretty close. c. I agree 3. Shouldn’t we be concerned with both equally if black lives matter? a. That’s kinda weak with the stats coming out of a city like Chicago. I’ve never said BLM is wrong. I try to look at things from every side. Calling people that see things differently racists or uncle toms isn’t going to help bring change, and I hope that good changes do come from this. |
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Post by beavs6 on Jun 14, 2020 6:50:32 GMT -8
That's NOT what you said, disingenuous $#!+bag. Lol
"there's a line being drawn and you're either on one side or the other."
Peace out! I'm done.
BLACK LIVES MATTER
If I don't agree with everything a group does and condones, I'm on the other side?
So when an espoused voice for the BLM movement states that they don't condone vandelism and looting, but if I see it I won't try to stop it either. What the hell is that? What happened to if you see it, stop it?
When a LOUD voice for equality tells other mixed and black students that "well, your opinion doesn't matter because you're not black. You're either with US or against US.". What the hell is that?
That stinkin thinkin is the EXACT paradigm thinking that has allowed racism (as an example) to continue to survive.
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Post by irimi on Jun 14, 2020 7:35:01 GMT -8
OK, I know that I said that would leave the conversation, but you seemed to overlook that I addressed the real point in the guy's video. The other points were silly.
1. He talked about the police killings and gave an example of a white man being killed by police as well. He does this in order to suggest that the police killings are not racially motivated.
a. My initial response, as I've said above, is that it is very important to look at why the police are using such deadly force period. Old news. Nothing new here.
b. The second response is that it is NOT fair to say that police kill white people the same way as they kill black people. Point in fact, I have yet to see a white man knelt on for 9 minutes.
c. Third, the fact that black people (and other people of color) are stopped and basically harassed by police for really no legitimate reason is evident. Ask a black friend or a latino friend if they have been stopped in the normal course of their day. See what they say.
2. He talked about anti-racism being a religion. He said that "a naive anthropologist might classify" it as such. LOL. That's a weak claim. A naive anthropologist. SMH. What would a real anthropologist say? How does it help him to say that it is a religion? Cultural anthropologists have a broad definition of religion. Certainly, if he sees anti-racism as a religion, then racism also fits the bill. So probably a lot of other ideological beliefs.
3. He goes on to say how black people kill black people, and that we should be much more concerned about that than police killing black people. It's a deceptive point because the fact that black people kill black people has no bearing whatsoever on racism or police brutality. It's a diversion tactic and you fell for it.
a. People kill people. It happens. All the statistics point to the murder knowing the victim most of the time. Likewise, the statistics show that it's often a family member. Most black people have black family members. Most white people have white family members. Duh.
b. We know that the environment in which you grow up affects your future. Your schools are right there. Your support is right there. But in the suburbs, less money is spent on police departments so more can go to education or housing services. In the cities and inner cities, more money goes to the police departments and less to education or housing. So what happens? Suburbs thrive. Inner cities do not. Teachers who are able choose to teach in the suburbs. Why? Because the job is easier. The kids are better fed. They come from more stable families. As a result, there is more value placed on education and expectations can be higher. The kids in the suburbs know that they can go off to the state college and study when they finish. If they want, they can aim even higher. The inner city kids, though, well, they have much more to overcome.
So, OK, you can call me a jerk for calling the guy an Uncle Tom. But this is the second video that I have been sent by a (presumably) white person which is a Black person arguing that the BLM movement is not important. So one must question why you would think that a video by a black guy is any better than a video by a white guy. Does he have more cred because of his skin color? LOL. That's kind of racist. And his ideas are sophomoric. So what's the point? Like my friend told me, "I'm not racist--I have a black boss." LOL!
I encourage you to keep thinking. But instead of trying to figure out why BLM is wrong, take a few minutes and look at why it could be OK. What if this movement actually helps to bring about change? Wouldn't that be good? Wouldn't that make our country a better place for more people?
Or do you have something to lose?
1. You have no idea if the police killings are racially motivated. I’m sure some are but to presume that all, or even most are, is naive. a. I agree it is important to look at why deadly force is used. Especially in cases such as the George Floyd situation. b. Do me a favor and look up the name Tony Timpa. Not exactly the same but pretty close. c. I agree 3. Shouldn’t we be concerned with both equally if black lives matter? a. That’s kinda weak with the stats coming out of a city like Chicago. I’ve never said BLM is wrong. I try to look at things from every side. Calling people that see things differently racists or uncle toms isn’t going to help bring change, and I hope that good changes do come from this. I appreciate your response.
I agree that proving racism as a motivating factor for killings is indeed difficult. However, there are two factors that we need to consider.
1. Racism exists in the US. Many cities are set up so that whites live in predominantly white areas and blacks live in predominantly black areas. Do blacks/hispanics/asians escape those ghettos/south sides? Sure. But society is really set up to keep people in their place. Do whites also have slums? Sure.
So if the quality of life in these areas is poor, and if drug use in these areas is high, well, we have a problem and the only way to address the problem (traditionally) is the police. That's a problem. It's going to lead to stereotyping and racial profiling minimally. Or seeing these people as animals.
2. All during the presidency of Obama, thinly veiled racist ideas grew among his dissenters. With the current political climate, racist ideas have become louder and emboldened. This is why I believe black people and white people have been protesting so loudly and incessantly.
Yes, black people kill black people. White people kill white people. We kill people we know. And since our society is set up in these patchwork cities, odds are that you are not going to know many people outside your own color. Especially in these areas which are neglected.
Defunding the police could potentially move millions of dollars into programs to improve those areas and to help people live better lives. Simple. This has the potential to attack systemic racism at the root.
Change is coming, little by little. I cannot believe there are so many statues of confederate leaders. And the idiots who wave the Nazi flag or the Confederate flag are really only doing it for one reason: they are not American.
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Post by irimi on Jun 14, 2020 7:47:27 GMT -8
"there's a line being drawn and you're either on one side or the other."
Peace out! I'm done.
BLACK LIVES MATTER
If I don't agree with everything a group does and condones, I'm on the other side?
So when an espoused voice for the BLM movement states that they don't condone vandelism and looting, but if I see it I won't try to stop it either. What the hell is that? What happened to if you see it, stop it?
When a LOUD voice for equality tells other mixed and black students that "well, your opinion doesn't matter because you're not black. You're either with US or against US.". What the hell is that?
That stinkin thinkin is the EXACT paradigm thinking that has allowed racism (as an example) to continue to survive.
If you are looking for reasons however minor to call into question a movement by large groups of people across the world instead of joining them, then perhaps you should look in a mirror.
I will wager that 95% of the people in the streets are acting respectfully toward the businesses and property around them. But looting and vandalism has happened, some of it by members of the movement and some of it by opportunists who have nothing to do with BLM or are trying to disgrace BLM.
But if it is possible for you to disregard the history of racism and how Black people have been targeted and harassed by the police for years, then your white privilege is showing.
Also, remember that, time after time, for people to gain their rights and power, the movement always becomes a struggle. There is always some sort of violence simply because there is such resistance to change. The women's suffrage movement, the black rights movement in the 60s, and the independence of several countries spring to mind as examples of this. Don't expect change to come easy.
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Post by beavs6 on Jun 14, 2020 9:08:45 GMT -8
If you are looking for reasons however minor to call into question a movement by large groups of people across the world instead of joining them, then perhaps you should look in a mirror.
I will wager that 95% of the people in the streets are acting respectfully toward the businesses and property around them. But looting and vandalism has happened, some of it by members of the movement and some of it by opportunists who have nothing to do with BLM or are trying to disgrace BLM.
But if it is possible for you to disregard the history of racism and how Black people have been targeted and harassed by the police for years, then your white privilege is showing.
Also, remember that, time after time, for people to gain their rights and power, the movement always becomes a struggle. There is always some sort of violence simply because there is such resistance to change. The women's suffrage movement, the black rights movement in the 60s, and the independence of several countries spring to mind as examples of this. Don't expect change to come easy.
The problen with humans and society is when all enconcompassinig language is used. Thanks for putting me in a box and judging me without knowing me. Another problem is that there is no rational discussion that can be had with an irrational and idealized zealot. I don't put my thoughts down with the intent this being a discussion at this point. ---"If you are looking for reasons however minor to call into question a movement by large groups of people across the world instead of joining them, then perhaps you should look in a mirror. " Many wrongs in society started with noble groups that had vast #'s of people behind it that also caused harm. Just because a group has the #'s and the power, does it really have all of the "Right"? Should the wrong's of a LARGE POSITIVE group not be extingushed? ---"I will wager that 95% of the people in the streets are acting respectfully toward the businesses and property around them. But looting and vandalism has happened, some of it by members of the movement and some of it by opportunists who have nothing to do with BLM or are trying to disgrace BLM. " No. I'm saying that when a person is asking for others to help them in righting wrongs, they should be open to helping right other wrongs as well. Why should 95% of the people in the streets that are acting respectfully toward business and property around them(your words and #) allow the others to commit these acts? The "End's justify the means" mentality won't get it done. It replaces 1 set of problems with another. Don't infringe on others "Rights as human beings" to garner your "Rights as human beings". When I see wrong, whether it be by white, black, brown, or purple...I will say it is wrong. The % of people that say it is OK or will justify the action makes no difference. This is the human mentality that has lead us here in the 1st place. Wrong is wrong. ---"But if it is possible for you to disregard the history of racism and how Black people have been targeted and harassed by the police for years, then your white privilege is showing." I will only reply to this by saying DO NOT PUT WORD IN MY MOUTH. ---"Don't expect change to come easy." Don't expect(and demand) change to come overnight as well. It can't. No matter how difficult any amounts of people make it. All of the movements you cite still took TIME. |
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beaver94
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Post by beaver94 on Jun 14, 2020 11:00:38 GMT -8
Just thought I’d put this out there for anyone wanting to listen to a short podcast from an ex OSU athlete. Marcus Greaves talked for about 10 minutes giving his perspective about the reality for black athletes. It’s the Beaver Smack podcast and is worth listening to.
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Post by irimi on Jun 14, 2020 11:09:27 GMT -8
If you are looking for reasons however minor to call into question a movement by large groups of people across the world instead of joining them, then perhaps you should look in a mirror.
I will wager that 95% of the people in the streets are acting respectfully toward the businesses and property around them. But looting and vandalism has happened, some of it by members of the movement and some of it by opportunists who have nothing to do with BLM or are trying to disgrace BLM.
But if it is possible for you to disregard the history of racism and how Black people have been targeted and harassed by the police for years, then your white privilege is showing.
Also, remember that, time after time, for people to gain their rights and power, the movement always becomes a struggle. There is always some sort of violence simply because there is such resistance to change. The women's suffrage movement, the black rights movement in the 60s, and the independence of several countries spring to mind as examples of this. Don't expect change to come easy.
The problen with humans and society is when all enconcompassinig language is used. Thanks for putting me in a box and judging me without knowing me. Another problem is that there is no rational discussion that can be had with an irrational and idealized zealot. I don't put my thoughts down with the intent this being a discussion at this point. ---"If you are looking for reasons however minor to call into question a movement by large groups of people across the world instead of joining them, then perhaps you should look in a mirror. " Many wrongs in society started with noble groups that had vast #'s of people behind it that also caused harm. Just because a group has the #'s and the power, does it really have all of the "Right"? Should the wrong's of a LARGE POSITIVE group not be extingushed? ---"I will wager that 95% of the people in the streets are acting respectfully toward the businesses and property around them. But looting and vandalism has happened, some of it by members of the movement and some of it by opportunists who have nothing to do with BLM or are trying to disgrace BLM. " No. I'm saying that when a person is asking for others to help them in righting wrongs, they should be open to helping right other wrongs as well. Why should 95% of the people in the streets that are acting respectfully toward business and property around them(your words and #) allow the others to commit these acts? The "End's justify the means" mentality won't get it done. It replaces 1 set of problems with another. Don't infringe on others "Rights as human beings" to garner your "Rights as human beings". When I see wrong, whether it be by white, black, brown, or purple...I will say it is wrong. The % of people that say it is OK or will justify the action makes no difference. This is the human mentality that has lead us here in the 1st place. Wrong is wrong. ---"But if it is possible for you to disregard the history of racism and how Black people have been targeted and harassed by the police for years, then your white privilege is showing." I will only reply to this by saying DO NOT PUT WORD IN MY MOUTH. ---"Don't expect change to come easy." Don't expect(and demand) change to come overnight as well. It can't. No matter how difficult any amounts of people make it. All of the movements you cite still took TIME. History shows that humans are not inclined to listen until it becomes clear that they MUST listen. If you're a Christian, then you know Moses had to make Pharaoh very uncomfortable before he said go and be free. If you are not a bible reading man, then you should know that Yin and Yang are always together. Peace alone is wimpy. Violence alone is not justice. The two are always together. When one side is quiet, it's time to be loud. When they are loud, it's time to be quiet. It's nature's law.
"Don't expect change to come overnight as well." Still scratching my head about this one.
This isn't new. Eric Garner. Tamir Rice (only 14 playing with a toy gun). Stephon Clark in Sacramento. And there were marches then.
But this year, the disgusting handling of the Ahmaud Abery case in Georgia fired people up. While not involving the police in the strictest definition, we all saw how law enforcement and justice was swept aside. Then Breanna Taylor shot in her bed.
Don't forget the incident with the birdwatcher in Central Park and the woman walking her dog off leash who used her white privilege to try to scare the black man saying that she would call the cops on the guy and say that he was threatening her.
Then came the incident which set this whole thing off. The callousness of the cops! The audacity! Infuriating!
You say not to expect change overnight. And I say, how long do you want the protests to continue? The longer everyone sits around with deaf ears, the bigger and louder the marches will become.
Simple.
You want us to be quiet, take appropriate action.
Yin and Yang.
Moses and the plagues.
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Post by beavs6 on Jun 14, 2020 16:28:04 GMT -8
The problen with humans and society is when all enconcompassinig language is used. Thanks for putting me in a box and judging me without knowing me. Another problem is that there is no rational discussion that can be had with an irrational and idealized zealot. I don't put my thoughts down with the intent this being a discussion at this point. ---"If you are looking for reasons however minor to call into question a movement by large groups of people across the world instead of joining them, then perhaps you should look in a mirror. " Many wrongs in society started with noble groups that had vast #'s of people behind it that also caused harm. Just because a group has the #'s and the power, does it really have all of the "Right"? Should the wrong's of a LARGE POSITIVE group not be extingushed? ---"I will wager that 95% of the people in the streets are acting respectfully toward the businesses and property around them. But looting and vandalism has happened, some of it by members of the movement and some of it by opportunists who have nothing to do with BLM or are trying to disgrace BLM. " No. I'm saying that when a person is asking for others to help them in righting wrongs, they should be open to helping right other wrongs as well. Why should 95% of the people in the streets that are acting respectfully toward business and property around them(your words and #) allow the others to commit these acts? The "End's justify the means" mentality won't get it done. It replaces 1 set of problems with another. Don't infringe on others "Rights as human beings" to garner your "Rights as human beings". When I see wrong, whether it be by white, black, brown, or purple...I will say it is wrong. The % of people that say it is OK or will justify the action makes no difference. This is the human mentality that has lead us here in the 1st place. Wrong is wrong. ---"But if it is possible for you to disregard the history of racism and how Black people have been targeted and harassed by the police for years, then your white privilege is showing." I will only reply to this by saying DO NOT PUT WORD IN MY MOUTH. ---"Don't expect change to come easy." Don't expect(and demand) change to come overnight as well. It can't. No matter how difficult any amounts of people make it. All of the movements you cite still took TIME. History shows that humans are not inclined to listen until it becomes clear that they MUST listen. If you're a Christian, then you know Moses had to make Pharaoh very uncomfortable before he said go and be free. If you are not a bible reading man, then you should know that Yin and Yang are always together. Peace alone is wimpy. Violence alone is not justice. The two are always together. When one side is quiet, it's time to be loud. When they are loud, it's time to be quiet. It's nature's law.
"Don't expect change to come overnight as well." Still scratching my head about this one.
This isn't new. Eric Garner. Tamir Rice (only 14 playing with a toy gun). Stephon Clark in Sacramento. And there were marches then.
But this year, the disgusting handling of the Ahmaud Abery case in Georgia fired people up. While not involving the police in the strictest definition, we all saw how law enforcement and justice was swept aside. Then Breanna Taylor shot in her bed.
Don't forget the incident with the birdwatcher in Central Park and the woman walking her dog off leash who used her white privilege to try to scare the black man saying that she would call the cops on the guy and say that he was threatening her.
Then came the incident which set this whole thing off. The callousness of the cops! The audacity! Infuriating!
You say not to expect change overnight. And I say, how long do you want the protests to continue? The longer everyone sits around with deaf ears, the bigger and louder the marches will become.
Simple.
You want us to be quiet, take appropriate action.
Yin and Yang.
Moses and the plagues.
I stand by my 1st couple of sentences in my last post. I am responding to correct your statements, not discuss. "If you are a Christian...Moses" blah blah blah. Your are quoting from the wrong part of the Bible. The Old Testament is not about being Christian. Judaism and Christiananity...for the most part...agree on the Old Testament of the Bible. Where Christiananity comes from is from following the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. You know...turn the other cheek, "Father forgive them" and such. It took centuries for his thoughts to become "Main Stream".(my words) Hell, he was CRUSIFIED for goodness sake! Yin and Yang is not about violence, it is about balance. Change cannot happen in an instant. It takes time. Sorry this concept is so confusing for you to grasp. Constant effort, yes. Immediate gratification...usually not so often. Longer than most people are comfortable with YES! "And I say, how long do you want the protests to continue?"--Tell me what action can occur tomorrow to make everything OK? "You want us to be quiet, take appropriate action." DON"T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Never professed to say anything other than those that wish for justice, human rights, compassion, equality etc should not be willing to take those things from others to attain those same things they want. It is not a zero sum game. How do you know what action I have taken or not taken? Who gets to decide what is appropriate and what is not? You sure seem comfortable putting me in a box without knowing much about me, and surely not KNOWING ME at all. Could that be part of the problem? Especially as it pertains from individual to individual...to community to community...across a Nation? |
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Post by irimi on Jun 14, 2020 19:26:08 GMT -8
History shows that humans are not inclined to listen until it becomes clear that they MUST listen. If you're a Christian, then you know Moses had to make Pharaoh very uncomfortable before he said go and be free. If you are not a bible reading man, then you should know that Yin and Yang are always together. Peace alone is wimpy. Violence alone is not justice. The two are always together. When one side is quiet, it's time to be loud. When they are loud, it's time to be quiet. It's nature's law.
"Don't expect change to come overnight as well." Still scratching my head about this one.
This isn't new. Eric Garner. Tamir Rice (only 14 playing with a toy gun). Stephon Clark in Sacramento. And there were marches then.
But this year, the disgusting handling of the Ahmaud Abery case in Georgia fired people up. While not involving the police in the strictest definition, we all saw how law enforcement and justice was swept aside. Then Breanna Taylor shot in her bed.
Don't forget the incident with the birdwatcher in Central Park and the woman walking her dog off leash who used her white privilege to try to scare the black man saying that she would call the cops on the guy and say that he was threatening her.
Then came the incident which set this whole thing off. The callousness of the cops! The audacity! Infuriating!
You say not to expect change overnight. And I say, how long do you want the protests to continue? The longer everyone sits around with deaf ears, the bigger and louder the marches will become.
Simple.
You want us to be quiet, take appropriate action.
Yin and Yang.
Moses and the plagues.
I stand by my 1st couple of sentences in my last post. I am responding to correct your statements, not discuss. "If you are a Christian...Moses" blah blah blah. Your are quoting from the wrong part of the Bible. The Old Testament is not about being Christian. Judaism and Christiananity...for the most part...agree on the Old Testament of the Bible. Where Christiananity comes from is from following the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. You know...turn the other cheek, "Father forgive them" and such. It took centuries for his thoughts to become "Main Stream".(my words) Hell, he was CRUSIFIED for goodness sake! Yin and Yang is not about violence, it is about balance. Change cannot happen in an instant. It takes time. Sorry this concept is so confusing for you to grasp. Constant effort, yes. Immediate gratification...usually not so often. Longer than most people are comfortable with YES! "And I say, how long do you want the protests to continue?"--Tell me what action can occur tomorrow to make everything OK? "You want us to be quiet, take appropriate action." DON"T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Never professed to say anything other than those that wish for justice, human rights, compassion, equality etc should not be willing to take those things from others to attain those same things they want. It is not a zero sum game. How do you know what action I have taken or not taken? Who gets to decide what is appropriate and what is not? You sure seem comfortable putting me in a box without knowing much about me, and surely not KNOWING ME at all. Could that be part of the problem? Especially as it pertains from individual to individual...to community to community...across a Nation? I know Yin and Yang far better than I know the black book that Trump held awkwardly in his photo op. If you don’t see balance in my description of yin and yang, that’s on you. Yin is female, peace, soft. Yang is male, strength, fighting. They go together. Even MLK knew this. If you don’t understand how long the struggle has been going, well, that’s on you, too. I am not sure why you felt it necessary to tell me that change takes time, unless you want it to be slow. Why bring up the subject at all? It adds nothing to the discussion. Like Dylan said, “Your old road is rapidly fading. Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand.” |
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Post by beavs6 on Jun 14, 2020 21:03:58 GMT -8
I stand by my 1st couple of sentences in my last post. I am responding to correct your statements, not discuss. "If you are a Christian...Moses" blah blah blah. Your are quoting from the wrong part of the Bible. The Old Testament is not about being Christian. Judaism and Christiananity...for the most part...agree on the Old Testament of the Bible. Where Christiananity comes from is from following the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. You know...turn the other cheek, "Father forgive them" and such. It took centuries for his thoughts to become "Main Stream".(my words) Hell, he was CRUSIFIED for goodness sake! Yin and Yang is not about violence, it is about balance. Change cannot happen in an instant. It takes time. Sorry this concept is so confusing for you to grasp. Constant effort, yes. Immediate gratification...usually not so often. Longer than most people are comfortable with YES! "And I say, how long do you want the protests to continue?"--Tell me what action can occur tomorrow to make everything OK? "You want us to be quiet, take appropriate action." DON"T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Never professed to say anything other than those that wish for justice, human rights, compassion, equality etc should not be willing to take those things from others to attain those same things they want. It is not a zero sum game. How do you know what action I have taken or not taken? Who gets to decide what is appropriate and what is not? You sure seem comfortable putting me in a box without knowing much about me, and surely not KNOWING ME at all. Could that be part of the problem? Especially as it pertains from individual to individual...to community to community...across a Nation? I know Yin and Yang far better than I know the black book that Trump held awkwardly in his photo op. If you don’t see balance in my description of yin and yang, that’s on you. Yin is female, peace, soft. Yang is male, strength, fighting. They go together. Even MLK knew this. If you don’t understand how long the struggle has been going, well, that’s on you, too. I am not sure why you felt it necessary to tell me that change takes time, unless you want it to be slow. Why bring up the subject at all? It adds nothing to the discussion. Like Dylan said, “Your old road is rapidly fading. Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand.” Choosing to live in a world of ignorance and hate...when that is the exact world you despise...must be a very bleak existence. Peace to you. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 14, 2020 21:45:45 GMT -8
The problen with humans and society is when all enconcompassinig language is used. Thanks for putting me in a box and judging me without knowing me. Another problem is that there is no rational discussion that can be had with an irrational and idealized zealot. I don't put my thoughts down with the intent this being a discussion at this point. ---"If you are looking for reasons however minor to call into question a movement by large groups of people across the world instead of joining them, then perhaps you should look in a mirror. " Many wrongs in society started with noble groups that had vast #'s of people behind it that also caused harm. Just because a group has the #'s and the power, does it really have all of the "Right"? Should the wrong's of a LARGE POSITIVE group not be extingushed? ---"I will wager that 95% of the people in the streets are acting respectfully toward the businesses and property around them. But looting and vandalism has happened, some of it by members of the movement and some of it by opportunists who have nothing to do with BLM or are trying to disgrace BLM. " No. I'm saying that when a person is asking for others to help them in righting wrongs, they should be open to helping right other wrongs as well. Why should 95% of the people in the streets that are acting respectfully toward business and property around them(your words and #) allow the others to commit these acts? The "End's justify the means" mentality won't get it done. It replaces 1 set of problems with another. Don't infringe on others "Rights as human beings" to garner your "Rights as human beings". When I see wrong, whether it be by white, black, brown, or purple...I will say it is wrong. The % of people that say it is OK or will justify the action makes no difference. This is the human mentality that has lead us here in the 1st place. Wrong is wrong. ---"But if it is possible for you to disregard the history of racism and how Black people have been targeted and harassed by the police for years, then your white privilege is showing." I will only reply to this by saying DO NOT PUT WORD IN MY MOUTH. ---"Don't expect change to come easy." Don't expect(and demand) change to come overnight as well. It can't. No matter how difficult any amounts of people make it. All of the movements you cite still took TIME. History shows that humans are not inclined to listen until it becomes clear that they MUST listen. If you're a Christian, then you know Moses had to make Pharaoh very uncomfortable before he said go and be free. If you are not a bible reading man, then you should know that Yin and Yang are always together. Peace alone is wimpy. Violence alone is not justice. The two are always together. When one side is quiet, it's time to be loud. When they are loud, it's time to be quiet. It's nature's law.
"Don't expect change to come overnight as well." Still scratching my head about this one.
This isn't new. Eric Garner. Tamir Rice (only 14 playing with a toy gun). Stephon Clark in Sacramento. And there were marches then.
But this year, the disgusting handling of the Ahmaud Abery case in Georgia fired people up. While not involving the police in the strictest definition, we all saw how law enforcement and justice was swept aside. Then Breanna Taylor shot in her bed.
Don't forget the incident with the birdwatcher in Central Park and the woman walking her dog off leash who used her white privilege to try to scare the black man saying that she would call the cops on the guy and say that he was threatening her.
Then came the incident which set this whole thing off. The callousness of the cops! The audacity! Infuriating!
You say not to expect change overnight. And I say, how long do you want the protests to continue? The longer everyone sits around with deaf ears, the bigger and louder the marches will become.
Simple.
You want us to be quiet, take appropriate action.
Yin and Yang.
Moses and the plagues. I am Christian. How about Matthew 26:52: Omnes enim, qui acceperint gladium, gladio peribunt. Or, in English: For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or to quote one of the great Christian theologians from the previous century: Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love....Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate...but to win...friendship and understanding. --Martin Luther King, Jr. (1958). The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. --Martin Luther King, Jr. (1967). The end never justifies the means. The means are the only thing that can justify the end. Winning is only winning, if it was nobly pursued and nobly won. This board epitomizes the foregoing. As Oregon State fans, we never cut corners. We play by the book. Success comes by doing things the right way, because success by any other means is not success. It is fraudulent, tainted and tarnished. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Jun 14, 2020 22:10:00 GMT -8
History shows that humans are not inclined to listen until it becomes clear that they MUST listen. If you're a Christian, then you know Moses had to make Pharaoh very uncomfortable before he said go and be free. If you are not a bible reading man, then you should know that Yin and Yang are always together. Peace alone is wimpy. Violence alone is not justice. The two are always together. When one side is quiet, it's time to be loud. When they are loud, it's time to be quiet. It's nature's law.
"Don't expect change to come overnight as well." Still scratching my head about this one.
This isn't new. Eric Garner. Tamir Rice (only 14 playing with a toy gun). Stephon Clark in Sacramento. And there were marches then.
But this year, the disgusting handling of the Ahmaud Abery case in Georgia fired people up. While not involving the police in the strictest definition, we all saw how law enforcement and justice was swept aside. Then Breanna Taylor shot in her bed.
Don't forget the incident with the birdwatcher in Central Park and the woman walking her dog off leash who used her white privilege to try to scare the black man saying that she would call the cops on the guy and say that he was threatening her.
Then came the incident which set this whole thing off. The callousness of the cops! The audacity! Infuriating!
You say not to expect change overnight. And I say, how long do you want the protests to continue? The longer everyone sits around with deaf ears, the bigger and louder the marches will become.
Simple.
You want us to be quiet, take appropriate action.
Yin and Yang.
Moses and the plagues. I am Christian. How about Matthew 26:52: Omnes enim, qui acceperint gladium, gladio peribunt. Or, in English: For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or to quote one of the great Christian theologians from the previous century: Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love....Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate...but to win...friendship and understanding. --Martin Luther King, Jr. (1958). The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. --Martin Luther King, Jr. (1967). The end never justifies the means. The means are the only thing that can justify the end. Winning is only winning, if it was nobly pursued and nobly won. This board epitomizes the foregoing. As Oregon State fans, we never cut corners. We play by the book. Success comes by doing things the right way, because success by any other means is not success. It is fraudulent, tainted and tarnished. Bravo! On a side note, if anyone cares to actually listen with an open mind, the round table discussion that the president and other community leaders of color had this past Thursday, was excellent.
Ultimately, we are dealing with issues of the heart. Just as your reference from the Reverend Martin Luther King so eloquently pointed out, we will only be able to address these issues when all sides come together in love, and put aside their animosity. I know, easier said than done. But a house divided cannot stand. We as a nation, are becoming more and more morally and ethically bankrupt, where everyone is wise in their own eyes. We need to re-discover our common heritage and humanity. And no, I am not suggesting everyone has to embrace Christianity. Just suggesting that many of the principles contained therein are not only good for Christians to follow, but for societies as well.
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