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Post by pitbeavs on Jun 11, 2020 20:54:31 GMT -8
In whatever job you do, can your employment withstand the number of complaints that many of the offending officers had received prior to a major event. Chauvin had 18 on his official record. But he was still working. Thao had six against him. The system is broken. What other job could you hold with that kind of record? What is the point of an official record and complaints if they are dismissed regularly? Where is the accountability? i hate to even post this, out of fear that you and others will take as defense of him. It’s not! He was way out of line and should be charged as he is. But in cop world, 18 complaints (Minor) in 18 years are not atypical. Half of those were likely to try to getting out of answering for their crimes. But Floyd + the two times he discharged his weapon [one death, I think] is a lot of red flags. |
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Post by irimi on Jun 11, 2020 21:42:43 GMT -8
In whatever job you do, can your employment withstand the number of complaints that many of the offending officers had received prior to a major event. Chauvin had 18 on his official record. But he was still working. Thao had six against him. The system is broken. What other job could you hold with that kind of record? What is the point of an official record and complaints if they are dismissed regularly? Where is the accountability? i hate to even post this, out of fear that you and others will take as defense of him. It’s not! He was way out of line and should be charged as he is. But in cop world, 18 complaints (Minor) in 18 years are not atypical. Why is it not atypical? I suggest that it isn’t atypical because the response of the police officers is out of proportion with the situation. Look at that situation. A counterfeit $20 bill. Big deal. You’ve probably had one in your wallet that you have tried to pass off unknowingly. They are out there. I’m 90% sure that if it had been you or I, the cops would have talked to us and walked away. I am also certain that if you or I were to be handcuffed on the ground and choked to death, there would be immediate consequences. I think that if I were hunted down and shot while out jogging, there would be immediate consequences. If a cop served a no knock warrant on my house instead of my neighbor’s and shot me in bed, there would be immediate consequences. I know that the color of my skin affords me that security. So the country should rethink policing. That’s all. No big deal. Shift some money around. Get rid of the military culture that is rampant in forces. Hold officers accountable. Easy-peasy. By the way, Chauvin’s complaints were not all minor. Two resulted in formal reprimands. But I get what you are saying. I just disagree that it should be overlooked. We have a problem with the system if an employee receives a complaint each year. Certainly, I could not last at my job with those kinds of numbers. I doubt I would even get the “benefit” of a reprimand. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 22:29:52 GMT -8
Good for them. That's so awesome! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 22:42:08 GMT -8
In whatever job you do, can your employment withstand the number of complaints that many of the offending officers had received I'm willing to bet that a lot, if not the majority, of complaints many police officers receive are from the criminals they've arrested. This opinion is coming from my vast experience of watching the now discontinued "Cops" line of TV shows, and not actual data.  |
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Post by irimi on Jun 12, 2020 9:22:18 GMT -8
This is our society. None of us are separate as we are all in this society together. You may think that you don't matter. Amy Cooper probably never thought that she would either, but in a brief encounter, she exposed the ugliness of America. And George Floyd became just another in a long line of victims of that ugliness.
Remember a few years ago when that police officer shot the black driver of a car in Minnesota? His girlfriend in the same car. The video showed that he did nothing wrong in the "routine" traffic stop.
The police officer was fired. He was arrested and went to trial, but was found innocent. The family sued for about $3,000,000. Apparently this is the price of a black man's life in the US. Or it's the cost of a license to murder.
I bring this up because I firmly believe that if I were murdered by a police officer--at a traffic stop or while handcuffed on the ground--I feel pretty certain that there would be justice for me. I believe that. I think the system would work for me.
But there are Americans for whom it does not work. Maybe never has because society doesn't see them as fellow Americans first. Society sees them as Blacks first and Americans maybe second or third.
This is wrong. We are Americans. Period. Your color is beautiful. Whatever language you speak is beautiful. It adds to the magic and mystery of America the Beautiful.
Let's stand with our brothers and sisters. While they are hurting, we ache. While they hunger for justice, we thirst.
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Post by obf on Jun 12, 2020 9:45:38 GMT -8
Actually several on the news locally and nationally were advocating for the elimination of police departments. It would be nice if every bad police officer, teacher, sales clerk, mechanic etc... Were dropped from their employment. When that happens I will find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow In whatever job you do, can your employment withstand the number of complaints that many of the offending officers had received prior to a major event. Chauvin had 18 on his official record. But he was still working. Thao had six against him. The system is broken. What other job could you hold with that kind of record? What is the point of an official record and complaints if they are dismissed regularly? Where is the accountability? i hate to even post this, out of fear that you and others will take as defense of him. It’s not! He was way out of line and should be charged as he is. But in cop world, 18 complaints (Minor) in 18 years are not atypical. Why is it not atypical? I agree the system is broken, and I agree that the violent behavior of cops would not be accepted or typical in any other employment or environment, in fact other Western / developed countries DO NOT deal with amount of violence from their police forces. Regardless of race the US has Fifty times (50x)(!) the number of police caused civilian deaths as other countries like the UK, Germany, France, etc. However, we DO KNOW why this is not atypical.... In brief it comes down to police UNIONS. There is no accountabilty, because it is NEGOTIATED INTO THEIR COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. We need to get rid of police unions or at least limit what they can negotiate, specifically protections that keep 18 times offenders still happily blighting the police force. I am still looking into what the "Defund the police" movement really wants, but I don't think it will help. It will just be chaos until whatever system that replaces the police is fully setup and then you will just be shifting the problem from a government institution to a private one where there will be even LESS accountability. Worked out great for prisions I guess  Here is a great podcast from NPR about how unuionization has caused a huge increase in police violence: www.npr.org/2020/06/05/871298161/police-unions-and-police-violence |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jun 12, 2020 9:54:59 GMT -8
This is our society. None of us are separate as we are all in this society together. You may think that you don't matter. Amy Cooper probably never thought that she would either, but in a brief encounter, she exposed the ugliness of America. And George Floyd became just another in a long line of victims of that ugliness. Remember a few years ago when that police officer shot the black driver of a car in Minnesota? His girlfriend in the same car. The video showed that he did nothing wrong in the "routine" traffic stop. The police officer was fired. He was arrested and went to trial, but was found innocent. The family sued for about $3,000,000. Apparently this is the price of a black man's life in the US. Or it's the cost of a license to murder. I bring this up because I firmly believe that if I were murdered by a police officer--at a traffic stop or while handcuffed on the ground--I feel pretty certain that there would be justice for me. I believe that. I think the system would work for me. But there are Americans for whom it does not work. Maybe never has because society doesn't see them as fellow Americans first. Society sees them as Blacks first and Americans maybe second or third. This is wrong. We are Americans. Period. Your color is beautiful. Whatever language you speak is beautiful. It adds to the magic and mystery of America the Beautiful. Let's stand with our brothers and sisters. While they are hurting, we ache. While they hunger for justice, we thirst. You really think you are immune because of your color or that there would be justice for you? Read up on Daniel Shaver, watch the video if you have the stomach. The cop walked after trial, he later went kind of nuts so I guess karma got him but it wasn't the legal system. We need reform, whether it involves color or not. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 12, 2020 9:59:43 GMT -8
In whatever job you do, can your employment withstand the number of complaints that many of the offending officers had received I'm willing to bet that a lot, if not the majority, of complaints many police officers receive are from the criminals they've arrested. This opinion is coming from my vast experience of watching the now discontinued "Cops" line of TV shows, and not actual data. Everyone has a presumption of innocence. No one is a "criminal" until they are convicted. Anyone arrested has basic legal rights, which include not getting the ever-loving crap beaten out of you. The Constitution is a wonderful thing. |
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Post by irimi on Jun 12, 2020 10:20:39 GMT -8
This is our society. None of us are separate as we are all in this society together. You may think that you don't matter. Amy Cooper probably never thought that she would either, but in a brief encounter, she exposed the ugliness of America. And George Floyd became just another in a long line of victims of that ugliness. Remember a few years ago when that police officer shot the black driver of a car in Minnesota? His girlfriend in the same car. The video showed that he did nothing wrong in the "routine" traffic stop. The police officer was fired. He was arrested and went to trial, but was found innocent. The family sued for about $3,000,000. Apparently this is the price of a black man's life in the US. Or it's the cost of a license to murder. I bring this up because I firmly believe that if I were murdered by a police officer--at a traffic stop or while handcuffed on the ground--I feel pretty certain that there would be justice for me. I believe that. I think the system would work for me. But there are Americans for whom it does not work. Maybe never has because society doesn't see them as fellow Americans first. Society sees them as Blacks first and Americans maybe second or third. This is wrong. We are Americans. Period. Your color is beautiful. Whatever language you speak is beautiful. It adds to the magic and mystery of America the Beautiful. Let's stand with our brothers and sisters. While they are hurting, we ache. While they hunger for justice, we thirst. You really think you are immune because of your color or that there would be justice for you? Read up on Daniel Shaver, watch the video if you have the stomach. The cop walked after trial, he later went kind of nuts so I guess karma got him but it wasn't the legal system. We need reform, whether it involves color or not. Yes, I think I am immune from 90% of the harassment that people of color receive from the police. I am 100% certain that a cop wouldn't pull me over for doing 65 in a 70 like the video that went viral the other day. Or the black delivery driver that ended up getting handcuffed down in Sacramento for parking on the wrong side of the street while delivering packages. It's the small annoyances that really don't get attention that add up, in my opinion. The fact that the police can get away with the small things paves the way to the larger transgressions. |
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Post by irimi on Jun 12, 2020 10:26:32 GMT -8
In whatever job you do, can your employment withstand the number of complaints that many of the offending officers had received prior to a major event. Chauvin had 18 on his official record. But he was still working. Thao had six against him. The system is broken. What other job could you hold with that kind of record? What is the point of an official record and complaints if they are dismissed regularly? Where is the accountability? I agree the system is broken, and I agree that the violent behavior of cops would not be accepted or typical in any other employment or environment, in fact other Western / developed countries DO NOT deal with amount of violence from their police forces. Regardless of race the US has Fifty times (50x)(!) the number of police caused civilian deaths as other countries like the UK, Germany, France, etc. However, we DO KNOW why this is not atypical.... In brief it comes down to police UNIONS. There is no accountabilty, because it is NEGOTIATED INTO THEIR COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS. We need to get rid of police unions or at least limit what they can negotiate, specifically protections that keep 18 times offenders still happily blighting the police force. I am still looking into what the "Defund the police" movement really wants, but I don't think it will help. It will just be chaos until whatever system that replaces the police is fully setup and then you will just be shifting the problem from a government institution to a private one where there will be even LESS accountability. Worked out great for prisions I guess Here is a great podcast from NPR about how unuionization has caused a huge increase in police violence: www.npr.org/2020/06/05/871298161/police-unions-and-police-violence"Defund the Police" is rather nebulous, which sucks because either side can claim it means X, Y, or even Z. But I like that ideas are being talked about. John Oliver did a great segment on Last Week Tonight solely about the police and it included this idea. It's a great 30 minute video if you have the time/inclination. He does talk about the problem with unions as well as how police officers often have immunity so you can't go after them individually in court.
It's a great time to be alive!
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Jun 12, 2020 10:39:19 GMT -8
IIRC there was an incident in Corvallis last year involving a young lady on a bicycle and a State Trooper. The result was the troopers pulling out of campus security. Who will be providing security in 2020/21? (too lazy to look it up)  Properly trained officers I hope. Go Beavs!! (edit) I looked it up. The university voted to establish an OSU police department. leadership.oregonstate.edu/campus-safety |
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Post by mbabeav on Jun 12, 2020 13:07:54 GMT -8
IIRC there was an incident in Corvallis last year involving a young lady on a bicycle and a State Trooper. The result was the troopers pulling out of campus security. Who will be providing security in 2020/21? (too lazy to look it up) Properly trained officers I hope. Go Beavs!! (edit) I looked it up. The university voted to establish an OSU police department. leadership.oregonstate.edu/campus-safetyI hope they are properly trained and equipped - I recall a few Beavermobile stories about making the campus security look silly, or the Hubbard, Oregon police department being equipped with LeCars because the city council rationalized that they could get two of those for the price of one Crown Victoria - only to have the county mounties and state troopers stop answering their requests for help with speeders. The wife of one officer (from another city) told her son that if the blues and reds started flashing behind him in Hubbard, to floor it and get over the city line because there was no excuse (to paraphrase it gently) for getting laughed at by his dad for getting stopped by the LeCop. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 13:33:38 GMT -8
I'm willing to bet that a lot, if not the majority, of complaints many police officers receive are from the criminals they've arrested. This opinion is coming from my vast experience of watching the now discontinued "Cops" line of TV shows, and not actual data. Everyone has a presumption of innocence. No one is a "criminal" until they are convicted. Anyone arrested has basic legal rights, which include not getting the ever-loving crap beaten out of you. The Constitution is a wonderful thing. Thanks for the civics lesson. It's all so clear to me now! |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 12, 2020 15:08:15 GMT -8
You really think you are immune because of your color or that there would be justice for you? Read up on Daniel Shaver, watch the video if you have the stomach. The cop walked after trial, he later went kind of nuts so I guess karma got him but it wasn't the legal system. We need reform, whether it involves color or not. Yes, I think I am immune from 90% of the harassment that people of color receive from the police. I am 100% certain that a cop wouldn't pull me over for doing 65 in a 70 like the video that went viral the other day. Or the black delivery driver that ended up getting handcuffed down in Sacramento for parking on the wrong side of the street while delivering packages. It's the small annoyances that really don't get attention that add up, in my opinion. The fact that the police can get away with the small things paves the way to the larger transgressions. Gotta agree I am mostly immune to the oppression and harassment minorities and people of color face. I am very aware of the fact I drive a newer, white, stock, clean, turbo-diesel station wagon. I am very aware I look like the Webster's dictionary definition of a middle-aged dad, that is kind of a dork, and still wears Star Wars t-shirts. And I am mostly aware of the fact because I look like a stereotypical middle class white dude, I am practically invisible to police. Being real honest, can't remember the last time I was pulled over. and it is NOT because I never speed, or never roll a stop sign, or never fail to use a turn signal. It is because I don't look like bigger fish than a $200 speeding ticket... |
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Post by irimi on Jun 12, 2020 16:57:40 GMT -8
Gotta agree I am mostly immune to the oppression and harassment minorities and people of color face. I am very aware of the fact I drive a newer, white, stock, clean, turbo-diesel station wagon. I am very aware I look like the Webster's dictionary definition of a middle-aged dad, that is kind of a dork, and still wears Star Wars t-shirts. And I am mostly aware of the fact because I look like a stereotypical middle class white dude, I am practically invisible to police. Being real honest, can't remember the last time I was pulled over. and it is NOT because I never speed, or never roll a stop sign, or never fail to use a turn signal. It is because I don't look like bigger fish than a $200 speeding ticket... And, you probably don't live in a impoverished "war zone". Bottom line is there are issues. Major issues. But, painting any organization with a huge broad stroke is wrong and diminishes the strength of a cause. What you don't see or hear publicized is any progress. And, there has been plenty. What you do see and hear is sensationalized and one sided. That creates polarization, not open dialogue. Ask questions and research. Who does the BLM really represent? Who are the major donors? Why? Have black killings at the hands of police really increased? Is bad policing the only issue or is the crime rate in certain areas? Read the BLM platform and see if it seems familiar. Ask the same questions that other black leaders have... why no protests on the location and ease of Planned Parenthood abortions for blacks? Why no protests and marches on the thousands of black deaths by black men? Is there a purpose to create even more racial tension? This Country has huge issues. There have been huge wrongs. But, there has been movement towards better times. As insignificant and not a quickly as some will have you believe. However, you can't have it both ways... huge issues for whatever time frame, fix it in a short term. Or now as some want. But, a good cause it doesn't mean every organization involved, just a policing, is above reproach. Just be logical, do your own thinking, come to your own rational conclusions. Don't let emotional bias keep you from your personal truths. Holy s%#t! Did you really just write that? As long as the cops don’t kill more than their quota, it’s ok. where has scubasteve been all these years? He’s got all the answers! |
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