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Post by spudbeaver on Mar 6, 2020 20:18:51 GMT -8
WTF does "the fans shouldn't accept mediocrity" even mean. It's said on here all the time, but what does that mean? I am saying right here on Benny's House that I don't accept this mediocrity!!! Ok, now what? Unless you are donating most of your discretionary income to OSU, or at Barnes' office lobbying for more whatever it is you think you deserve, then you're just as complicit in "accepting the mediocrity" as everyone else. You could stay away from games and merchandise too but all that does is make OSU even less relevant and will lead to being even worse than mediocre. For a fan to say "I don't accept mediocrity" doesn't mean s%#t if you aren't actively dedicating your time/money/effort to changing things. None of these programs at any school really care what the fans think. If they make money for the school, that's the goal, not that the fans are getting what they deserve. And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, this isn't directed at anyone, it is the idea that we are "accepting mediocrity" by supporting our coach or teams or whatever when they aren't great that frustrates me. OSU athletics as a whole IS MEDIOCRE, being an OSU fan and supporting that isn't a character flaw. I for one tire of this mantra. “You want a coaching change? Where’s your X million dollars?” This is ridiculous. Every single Oregon State grad paid plenty of money to the University and not a great percentage of folks can fork over a ton of dough after they graduate. Does that mean they shouldn’t expect their school to strive for the BEST they can do? Silly argument. That’s almost supportive of the UofO model! Keep it!
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 6, 2020 21:12:37 GMT -8
Not saying that at all, but he's certainly not the basketball equivalent of Kragthorpe. Not explicitly, but you made the comparison. No one compared him to Kragthorpe. drunkandstoopidbeavAfter six seasons, Miller's official record was four games below .500. Currently, Tinkle's official record is four games below .500.
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Post by dryside on Mar 7, 2020 7:26:30 GMT -8
Beavers will play in the NIT.....
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Post by beaverstever on Mar 7, 2020 9:35:28 GMT -8
My issue with WT is that he feels the need to micromanage the team during the game. He doesn’t trust them to make good decisions, and results in him working up a sweat as much as the players at times. The teaching should be done in practice - the games should be about execution and strategy adaptation, particularly late in the season. I’m not yet in the fire camp, but I’d like to see him grow as a coach. It might actually help to not have a son in the team with that aspect.
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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 7, 2020 9:50:10 GMT -8
My issue with WT is that he feels the need to micromanage the team during the game. He doesn’t trust them to make good decisions, and results in him working up a sweat as much as the players at times. The teaching should be done in practice - the games should be about execution and strategy adaptation, particularly late in the season. I’m not yet in the fire camp, but I’d like to see him grow as a coach. It might actually help to not have a son in the team with that aspect. I agree with the micromanaging aspect. Don't think not having your best player back next year is a team improvement.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 7, 2020 10:03:05 GMT -8
Not explicitly, but you made the comparison. No one compared him to Kragthorpe. drunkandstoopidbeav After six seasons, Miller's official record was four games below .500. Currently, Tinkle's official record is four games below .500. I guess. The NCAA did vacate 15 of Miller's wins to make that happen.... So Miller did average 2.5 more wins a season than Tinkle, seems like some people act like it was 7-8 or more.
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Post by nabeav on Mar 7, 2020 10:07:41 GMT -8
My issue with WT is that he feels the need to micromanage the team during the game. He doesn’t trust them to make good decisions, and results in him working up a sweat as much as the players at times. The teaching should be done in practice - the games should be about execution and strategy adaptation, particularly late in the season. I’m not yet in the fire camp, but I’d like to see him grow as a coach. It might actually help to not have a son in the team with that aspect. I agree with the micromanaging aspect. Don't think not having your best player back next year is a team improvement. Well, let me introduce you to the Ewing Theory: proxy.espn.com/espn/page2/story?id=1193711
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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 7, 2020 10:30:07 GMT -8
drunkandstoopidbeav After six seasons, Miller's official record was four games below .500. Currently, Tinkle's official record is four games below .500. I guess. The NCAA did vacate 15 of Miller's wins to make that happen.... So Miller did average 2.5 more wins a season than Tinkle, seems like some people act like it was 7-8 or more. Well lets compare apples to apples. While at osu miller coached about 28 games a year (including nit/ncaa) Tinkle at 31. Its likely if miller coached 3 more games a year there would be at least 2 and probably 3 wins a year to his average. So that would be 5 more wins a year compared to tinkle. Pretty sure many would be elated if tinkle had five more wins a year.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 7, 2020 10:30:34 GMT -8
drunkandstoopidbeav After six seasons, Miller's official record was four games below .500. Currently, Tinkle's official record is four games below .500. I guess. The NCAA did vacate 15 of Miller's wins to make that happen.... So Miller did average 2.5 more wins a season than Tinkle, seems like some people act like it was 7-8 or more. Yeah... cuz Ralph and WT are in the same echelon of coaching acumen and eras! Wow... Hey, so you and Wilky would have kept Jimmy as his record after 6 is better than WT's league record! WT should hire better "defenders". Your comparisons are becoming more and more comical. Thx for the "2 stooges" comedy.
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Post by qbeaver on Mar 7, 2020 11:26:20 GMT -8
WTF does "the fans shouldn't accept mediocrity" even mean. It's said on here all the time, but what does that mean? I am saying right here on Benny's House that I don't accept this mediocrity!!! Ok, now what? Unless you are donating most of your discretionary income to OSU, or at Barnes' office lobbying for more whatever it is you think you deserve, then you're just as complicit in "accepting the mediocrity" as everyone else. You could stay away from games and merchandise too but all that does is make OSU even less relevant and will lead to being even worse than mediocre. For a fan to say "I don't accept mediocrity" doesn't mean s%#t if you aren't actively dedicating your time/money/effort to changing things. None of these programs at any school really care what the fans think. If they make money for the school, that's the goal, not that the fans are getting what they deserve. And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, this isn't directed at anyone, it is the idea that we are "accepting mediocrity" by supporting our coach or teams or whatever when they aren't great that frustrates me. OSU athletics as a whole IS MEDIOCRE, being an OSU fan and supporting that isn't a character flaw. I for one tire of this mantra. “You want a coaching change? Where’s your X million dollars?” This is ridiculous. Every single Oregon State grad paid plenty of money to the University and not a great percentage of folks can fork over a ton of dough after they graduate. Does that mean they shouldn’t expect their school to strive for the BEST they can do? Silly argument. That’s almost supportive of the UofO model! Keep it! If fans want to make a coaching change in MBB,money does matter. Coach Tinkle will have to be payed off,and we will have to invest to get the kind of staff we need for success. If coach Tinkle is fired,where will that money come from? Most people don't want to donate large $$$ to pay off coaches,and do you want to take existing dollars from the budget which could be used on football staff raises,for example,to change coaches? When there is only so much money in the budget for all the sports the athletic department has to support,do you want to take away cash from the potential money maker in football? I don't... How much a student payed to attend osu matters zero. It's about the here and now,and how we can come up with to support the basketball program. It sounds great to want to make a change when we feel osu has underachieved,but $$$ does matter. Jmo... BTW...osu had to vacate those wins during the 1980's because players sold their complimentary NCAA hoops tix. The A.C. Green,Darrin Houston,Tyrone Miller era...
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 7, 2020 12:45:21 GMT -8
I guess. The NCAA did vacate 15 of Miller's wins to make that happen.... So Miller did average 2.5 more wins a season than Tinkle, seems like some people act like it was 7-8 or more. Yeah... cuz Ralph and WT are in the same echelon of coaching acumen and eras! Wow... Hey, so you and Wilky would have kept Jimmy as his record after 6 is better than WT's league record! WT should hire better "defenders". Your comparisons are becoming more and more comical. Thx for the "2 stooges" comedy. Speaking of comical... you are really reaching. Jimmy won a total of 15 games his last 2 seasons. It was time for OSU to move on. Wayne has won a minimum of 34 games the last two seasons, and it's not over yet. Do you see the difference?
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Post by spudbeaver on Mar 7, 2020 13:09:43 GMT -8
I for one tire of this mantra. “You want a coaching change? Where’s your X million dollars?” This is ridiculous. Every single Oregon State grad paid plenty of money to the University and not a great percentage of folks can fork over a ton of dough after they graduate. Does that mean they shouldn’t expect their school to strive for the BEST they can do? Silly argument. That’s almost supportive of the UofO model! Keep it! If fans want to make a coaching change in MBB,money does matter. Coach Tinkle will have to be payed off,and we will have to invest to get the kind of staff we need for success. If coach Tinkle is fired,where will that money come from? Most people don't want to donate large $$$ to pay off coaches,and do you want to take existing dollars from the budget which could be used on football staff raises,for example,to change coaches? When there is only so much money in the budget for all the sports the athletic department has to support,do you want to take away cash from the potential money maker in football? I don't... How much a student payed to attend osu matters zero. It's about the here and now,and how we can come up with to support the basketball program. It sounds great to want to make a change when we feel osu has underachieved,but $$$ does matter. Jmo... BTW...osu had to vacate those wins during the 1980's because players sold their complimentary NCAA hoops tix. The A.C. Green,Darrin Houston,Tyrone Miller era... Wow, really? Firing coaches takes money? Thanks for the enlightenment. I see you missed the point of my post by a mile. The point was I’m tired of the posts inferring that unless you personally have enough money to pay off a coach to fire him, shut up. That no opinion or point you have is valid because you personally aren’t going to pay the bill. In the real world, companies, and you could say OSU is a big company, plan and budget for things like this. I’m in construction for example. We pay ourselves equipment rent for every hour a piece of equipment runs. If we’ve tracked our past costs accurately and have projected future costs within reason, we will have enough money to replace that piece of equipment at the end of its useful life. Guess what? Sometimes the equipment fails, or is underperforming before the end of its useful life! Then what do you do? Keep pouring money into it and paying the price of downtime on your jobs? Fight through it until the bitter end? Of course not! You get rid of it-you fire it! And you buy something different, because you budgeted semi-accurately and paid yourself rent on your equipment through the years. Universities don’t seem to have that philosophy or the discipline to follow it, especially athletic departments. So out of every students dollar, a portion of it is set aside for athletics. Out of that portion, smaller portions are allocated to various programs. And THAT is where the folks in charge should be splitting off little bits to put away as let’s say, replacement costs. If we have an AD that thinks every hire is going to go perfectly, and we’ll never have to fire anyone, we hired the wrong AD. I guess that’s a good illustration of one glaring difference between private and government business. Oh, and I don’t really care about your last paragraph and am not sure why you included it in your response to me.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 7, 2020 13:34:27 GMT -8
Yeah... cuz Ralph and WT are in the same echelon of coaching acumen and eras! Wow... Hey, so you and Wilky would have kept Jimmy as his record after 6 is better than WT's league record! WT should hire better "defenders". Your comparisons are becoming more and more comical. Thx for the "2 stooges" comedy. Speaking of comical... you are really reaching. Jimmy won a total of 15 games his last 2 seasons. It was time for OSU to move on. Wayne has won a minimum of 34 games the last two seasons, and it's not over yet. Do you see the difference? 1st the quoted post was about 6 seasons. 2nd, you now count Jimmy's 2 worst, but love to count WTs 4 best. Get the difference. Compare JA's best 4 to WT's... get it. If you're going to compare one of the top coaches in NCAA history to WT get prepared to be humiliated. My gawd...
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Post by qbeaver on Mar 7, 2020 13:48:00 GMT -8
If fans want to make a coaching change in MBB,money does matter. Coach Tinkle will have to be payed off,and we will have to invest to get the kind of staff we need for success. If coach Tinkle is fired,where will that money come from? Most people don't want to donate large $$$ to pay off coaches,and do you want to take existing dollars from the budget which could be used on football staff raises,for example,to change coaches? When there is only so much money in the budget for all the sports the athletic department has to support,do you want to take away cash from the potential money maker in football? I don't... How much a student payed to attend osu matters zero. It's about the here and now,and how we can come up with to support the basketball program. It sounds great to want to make a change when we feel osu has underachieved,but $$$ does matter. Jmo... BTW...osu had to vacate those wins during the 1980's because players sold their complimentary NCAA hoops tix. The A.C. Green,Darrin Houston,Tyrone Miller era... Wow, really? Firing coaches takes money? Thanks for the enlightenment. I see you missed the point of my post by a mile. The point was I’m tired of the posts inferring that unless you personally have enough money to pay off a coach to fire him, shut up. That no opinion or point you have is valid because you personally aren’t going to pay the bill. In the real world, companies, and you could say OSU is a big company, plan and budget for things like this. I’m in construction for example. We pay ourselves equipment rent for every hour a piece of equipment runs. If we’ve tracked our past costs accurately and have projected future costs within reason, we will have enough money to replace that piece of equipment at the end of its useful life. Guess what? Sometimes the equipment fails, or is underperforming before the end of its useful life! Then what do you do? Keep pouring money into it and paying the price of downtime on your jobs? Fight through it until the bitter end? Of course not! You get rid of it-you fire it! And you buy something different, because you budgeted semi-accurately and paid yourself rent on your equipment through the years. Universities don’t seem to have that philosophy or the discipline to follow it, especially athletic departments. So out of every students dollar, a portion of it is set aside for athletics. Out of that portion, smaller portions are allocated to various programs. And THAT is where the folks in charge should be splitting off little bits to put away as let’s say, replacement costs. If we have an AD that thinks every hire is going to go perfectly, and we’ll never have to fire anyone, we hired the wrong AD. I guess that’s a good illustration of one glaring difference between private and government business. Oh, and I don’t really care about your last paragraph and am not sure why you included it in your response to me. Everyone has a right to an opinion. The facts are we haven't had a good basketball program since Ralph Miller left. From Jimmy,Craig,Wayne,Eddie,Jay or Ritchie,no one has consistently won since 1989. Regardless of how the athletic department may have mismanaged the Wayne Tinkle tenure,we have a problem. Do you keep him on and hope he turns it around,or do you fire him and start anew? Everyone has an opinion...mine is no better or worse than anyone on the board. Do I have all the answers...absolutely not. Just a fan of osu basketball for 50 years with an opinion. Regardless of what happens,more money is needed to elevate this program. Jmo... Spudbeaver,this wasn't directed at you,even though I quoted you. In a perfect world,the MBB program would be on an upward trajectory and we wouldn't even be talking about replacing Wayne. I have great memories of Gill Coliseum and the Orange Express back in the 1970's-1989. Something osu athletics could hang their hats on. The program has been flat lined for the most part since then. We can do better...some tough decisions will need to be made to accomplish this...
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Post by spudbeaver on Mar 7, 2020 13:54:21 GMT -8
I’ve never seen a premier player like Tinkle get so few calls. He just gets hammered and they don’t call anything.
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