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Post by seastape on Mar 4, 2020 0:35:43 GMT -8
Congrats, baseba1111 , you've definitively proved that we are not as good as we were last year. Glad you solved that riddle. I don't think you can find one person on here that thought we met expectations this year. Frustrating doesn't begin to explain it. Another factor to consider is that the level of play across the conference has risen considerably. Projected for 7 tournament teams, most ever. We didn't keep pace. Since I feel like I need to say this on every post, I'll say it again. I'm not endorsing Wayne Tinkle for a lifetime contract. I just don't think we've reached the "he needs to go" point yet. For me, the question is, "When will be the time to go?" We are definitely losing two of our best three players after the season ends and the losing the third of those three is a realistic possibility (probability?). And the drop-off between the third best and the fourth best precipitous. If Thompson leaves, will we have even one player who can step up to be a Pac 12 starter? We've seen flashes, but nothing to give great hope. And of the guys we have, especially the new guys...how many will leave after this season? Hunt? Lucas? Silva? Tucker? Anyone else? Will all of them stay? Will one or two leave? There would have to be phenomenal improvement to get better next year, even if Thompson stays. There doesn't seem to be a savior-type of recruit waiting in the wings. So when will it be time for Tinkle to go? Are we going to suffer through a few more seasons before reality sets in?
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Post by nabeav on Mar 4, 2020 9:45:03 GMT -8
Congrats, baseba1111 , you've definitively proved that we are not as good as we were last year. Glad you solved that riddle. I don't think you can find one person on here that thought we met expectations this year. Frustrating doesn't begin to explain it. Another factor to consider is that the level of play across the conference has risen considerably. Projected for 7 tournament teams, most ever. We didn't keep pace. Since I feel like I need to say this on every post, I'll say it again. I'm not endorsing Wayne Tinkle for a lifetime contract. I just don't think we've reached the "he needs to go" point yet. For me, the question is, "When will be the time to go?" We are definitely losing two of our best three players after the season ends and the losing the third of those three is a realistic possibility (probability?). And the drop-off between the third best and the fourth best precipitous. If Thompson leaves, will we have even one player who can step up to be a Pac 12 starter? We've seen flashes, but nothing to give great hope. And of the guys we have, especially the new guys...how many will leave after this season? Hunt? Lucas? Silva? Tucker? Anyone else? Will all of them stay? Will one or two leave? There would have to be phenomenal improvement to get better next year, even if Thompson stays. There doesn't seem to be a savior-type of recruit waiting in the wings. So when will it be time for Tinkle to go? Are we going to suffer through a few more seasons before reality sets in? Do I think OSU would move on if money were no object? Yes, probably. I just don't think you can justify the expense given that the results haven't been terrible. This isn't a Gary Andersen situation where something absolutely has to be done. This isn't even a Linus Rhode situation. We're still fairly competitive and have a chance to finish 7-11 in conference with a couple of wins this weekend (doubtful given our current form, but still a possibility). While not great and not what was expected, it's not awful. I mean, if you want to back up a Brinks truck to Gill and drop off the $6M or whatever Wayne is owed, I'm sure we could speed up the process, but I think you can wait to see what you have next year before hitting the reset button again for the sixth time in 25 years.
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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 4, 2020 9:56:56 GMT -8
For me, the question is, "When will be the time to go?" We are definitely losing two of our best three players after the season ends and the losing the third of those three is a realistic possibility (probability?). And the drop-off between the third best and the fourth best precipitous. If Thompson leaves, will we have even one player who can step up to be a Pac 12 starter? We've seen flashes, but nothing to give great hope. And of the guys we have, especially the new guys...how many will leave after this season? Hunt? Lucas? Silva? Tucker? Anyone else? Will all of them stay? Will one or two leave? There would have to be phenomenal improvement to get better next year, even if Thompson stays. There doesn't seem to be a savior-type of recruit waiting in the wings. So when will it be time for Tinkle to go? Are we going to suffer through a few more seasons before reality sets in? Do I think OSU would move on if money were no object? Yes, probably. I just don't think you can justify the expense given that the results haven't been terrible. This isn't a Gary Andersen situation where something absolutely has to be done. This isn't even a Linus Rhode situation. We're still fairly competitive and have a chance to finish 7-11 in conference with a couple of wins this weekend (doubtful given our current form, but still a possibility). While not great and not what was expected, it's not awful. I mean, if you want to back up a Brinks truck to Gill and drop off the $6M or whatever Wayne is owed, I'm sure we could speed up the process, but I think you can wait to see what you have next year before hitting the reset button again for the sixth time in 25 years. It is awful. And why wait to see what we got next year? Look at the bench this year that's what we got next year. I don't see any 5 star recruits knocking on the door. Do you?
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 4, 2020 10:07:53 GMT -8
Do I think OSU would move on if money were no object? Yes, probably. I just don't think you can justify the expense given that the results haven't been terrible. This isn't a Gary Andersen situation where something absolutely has to be done. This isn't even a Linus Rhode situation. We're still fairly competitive and have a chance to finish 7-11 in conference with a couple of wins this weekend (doubtful given our current form, but still a possibility). While not great and not what was expected, it's not awful. I mean, if you want to back up a Brinks truck to Gill and drop off the $6M or whatever Wayne is owed, I'm sure we could speed up the process, but I think you can wait to see what you have next year before hitting the reset button again for the sixth time in 25 years. It is awful. And why wait to see what we got next year? Look at the bench this year that's what we got next year. I don't see any 5 star recruits knocking on the door. Do you? Considering that we've never had a 5 star recruit (since that rating system has been in place), what are the odds the new coach could get one? The odds of us ever getting 5 star recruits to Corvallis is a long-shot. We need to focus on someone that can greatly develop 3 and 4 star kids. That may not be Wayne, but there's no way he's getting fired before the end of next season at the earliest, so all of this talk about it will solve nothing.
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Post by mbabeav on Mar 4, 2020 10:47:48 GMT -8
For me, it's a given that Coach will be back. It's also a given that we will not have a starting center, power forward, off guard or point guard with any real minutes coming into the season (if Thompson doesn't return). This isn't a Rueck one player on schollie and having all campus tryouts situation, but it's close. I don't think Tinkle is a bad coach, but the current staff has not been able to recruit. If you can't recruit, it is going to be a long next season when you lose the best talent you've had for 2-4 years.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 4, 2020 10:49:20 GMT -8
Some people think 5 star recruits grow on trees and any coach that can't land one is worthless. There are only 25 of them this year and there are some teams that are getting 2-3 each. That doesn't leave a lot to spread around.
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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 4, 2020 11:06:15 GMT -8
Some people think 5 star recruits grow on trees and any coach that can't land one is worthless. There are only 25 of them this year and there are some teams that are getting 2-3 each. That doesn't leave a lot to spread around. My comment about 5 stars is and was facetious. The problem is some on this board act as if 7-11 in league is acceptable. IT IS NOT.
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Post by seastape on Mar 4, 2020 11:20:36 GMT -8
For me, the question is, "When will be the time to go?" We are definitely losing two of our best three players after the season ends and the losing the third of those three is a realistic possibility (probability?). And the drop-off between the third best and the fourth best precipitous. If Thompson leaves, will we have even one player who can step up to be a Pac 12 starter? We've seen flashes, but nothing to give great hope. And of the guys we have, especially the new guys...how many will leave after this season? Hunt? Lucas? Silva? Tucker? Anyone else? Will all of them stay? Will one or two leave? There would have to be phenomenal improvement to get better next year, even if Thompson stays. There doesn't seem to be a savior-type of recruit waiting in the wings. So when will it be time for Tinkle to go? Are we going to suffer through a few more seasons before reality sets in? Do I think OSU would move on if money were no object? Yes, probably. I just don't think you can justify the expense given that the results haven't been terrible. This isn't a Gary Andersen situation where something absolutely has to be done. This isn't even a Linus Rhode situation. We're still fairly competitive and have a chance to finish 7-11 in conference with a couple of wins this weekend (doubtful given our current form, but still a possibility). While not great and not what was expected, it's not awful. I mean, if you want to back up a Brinks truck to Gill and drop off the $6M or whatever Wayne is owed, I'm sure we could speed up the process, but I think you can wait to see what you have next year before hitting the reset button again for the sixth time in 25 years. I agree with you; the money is simply not there to make the change and the results have not been "terrible" or "awful." However, I don't think "bad" would be an inappropriate adjective to describe this season and the rest of Tinkle's tenure. One tournament in six years is not good, especially since that tournament year was followed by a horrendous (yes, worse than "terrible" or "awful") season the next year.
It would be complimentary to call the results mediocre even if the team does rise to the occasion and gets those last two wins this year. But where are we going next year? My fear, and I do believe it is the most likely scenario, is that we don't have the talent and/or development on hand to produce even a decent season next year. Where do we go from there? Do we wait out Tinkle's contract? Are we actually losing money by not moving on? What will be the fan interest if the team falls flat?
People are likely right; Tinkle will be here next year, so it is a there-is-nothing-to-be-done-about-it scenario. We'll just have to hope. Maybe Hunt/Vernon will be a good PG rotation. Maybe Lucas will be a guy who can score in piles (he's shown it a few times this year). Maybe Tucker will blossom. Maybe Silva will be a decent space eater in the middle. Maybe Reichle will take even another step forward. There are some athletes on the team. Here's hoping for the best.
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Post by ag87 on Mar 4, 2020 12:06:27 GMT -8
Some people think 5 star recruits grow on trees and any coach that can't land one is worthless. There are only 25 of them this year and there are some teams that are getting 2-3 each. That doesn't leave a lot to spread around. My comment about 5 stars is and was facetious. The problem is some on this board act as if 7-11 in league is acceptable. IT IS NOT. 7 - 11 is acceptable if it's in a down cycle or a large factor in it is bad luck / injuries. I think North Carolina's record is in that vicinity. But our problem is we have been building towards this year. We have three guys that have a chance of making an NBA roster. Now was the time to make hay. This year is as bad as year 3 when we won one conference game. I feel in the last four years, two of those were barely acceptable and two were dramatic underachieving years.
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Post by tnarg33 on Mar 4, 2020 12:47:20 GMT -8
I feel like the season can be described either as terrible or disappointing and I feel like we are merging the two. Accepting the reality of our mediocrity as a program over the past 30 years when compared to the expectations of this veteran group, I would categorize this season as disappointing but not terrible. We've seen way worse. Next year, I have a feeling, will be more terrible than disappointing and that is disappointing.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 4, 2020 13:30:07 GMT -8
For me, the question is, "When will be the time to go?" We are definitely losing two of our best three players after the season ends and the losing the third of those three is a realistic possibility (probability?). And the drop-off between the third best and the fourth best precipitous. If Thompson leaves, will we have even one player who can step up to be a Pac 12 starter? We've seen flashes, but nothing to give great hope. And of the guys we have, especially the new guys...how many will leave after this season? Hunt? Lucas? Silva? Tucker? Anyone else? Will all of them stay? Will one or two leave? There would have to be phenomenal improvement to get better next year, even if Thompson stays. There doesn't seem to be a savior-type of recruit waiting in the wings. So when will it be time for Tinkle to go? Are we going to suffer through a few more seasons before reality sets in? Do I think OSU would move on if money were no object? Yes, probably. I just don't think you can justify the expense given that the results haven't been terrible. This isn't a Gary Andersen situation where something absolutely has to be done. This isn't even a Linus Rhode situation. We're still fairly competitive and have a chance to finish 7-11 in conference with a couple of wins this weekend (doubtful given our current form, but still a possibility). While not great and not what was expected, it's not awful. I mean, if you want to back up a Brinks truck to Gill and drop off the $6M or whatever Wayne is owed, I'm sure we could speed up the process, but I think you can wait to see what you have next year before hitting the reset button again for the sixth time in 25 years. The way I look at it, a sweep this week and one win in the league tourney puts us in the NIT. Not horrible, not terrible, not even overly disappointing (somewhat disappointing yes). It's almost as if some here want a loss or two or three in a row coming up to justify their positions. I'm not saying we're even going to win any of those games, but I'm not calling the season a complete loss until it's over.
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Post by nabeav on Mar 4, 2020 13:58:05 GMT -8
My comment about 5 stars is and was facetious. The problem is some on this board act as if 7-11 in league is acceptable. IT IS NOT. 7 - 11 is acceptable if it's in a down cycle or a large factor in it is bad luck / injuries. I think North Carolina's record is in that vicinity. But our problem is we have been building towards this year. We have three guys that have a chance of making an NBA roster. Now was the time to make hay. This year is as bad as year 3 when we won one conference game. I feel in the last four years, two of those were barely acceptable and two were dramatic underachieving years. You're comparing OSU to.....North Carolina?
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Post by ag87 on Mar 4, 2020 14:10:29 GMT -8
7 - 11 is acceptable if it's in a down cycle or a large factor in it is bad luck / injuries. I think North Carolina's record is in that vicinity. But our problem is we have been building towards this year. We have three guys that have a chance of making an NBA roster. Now was the time to make hay. This year is as bad as year 3 when we won one conference game. I feel in the last four years, two of those were barely acceptable and two were dramatic underachieving years. You're comparing OSU to.....North Carolina? Is my English that bad? I'm trying to draw a contrast between their record and ours.
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Post by tnarg33 on Mar 4, 2020 14:12:25 GMT -8
7 - 11 is acceptable if it's in a down cycle or a large factor in it is bad luck / injuries. I think North Carolina's record is in that vicinity. But our problem is we have been building towards this year. We have three guys that have a chance of making an NBA roster. Now was the time to make hay. This year is as bad as year 3 when we won one conference game. I feel in the last four years, two of those were barely acceptable and two were dramatic underachieving years. You're comparing OSU to.....North Carolina? I think what he is saying here is that no one is going to fire Roy Williams after a 7-11 because he is in a down cycle and had some injuries. This was supposed to be as good as it gets for us and best case is going to end 7-11.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 4, 2020 16:01:45 GMT -8
Do I think OSU would move on if money were no object? Yes, probably. I just don't think you can justify the expense given that the results haven't been terrible. This isn't a Gary Andersen situation where something absolutely has to be done. This isn't even a Linus Rhode situation. We're still fairly competitive and have a chance to finish 7-11 in conference with a couple of wins this weekend (doubtful given our current form, but still a possibility). While not great and not what was expected, it's not awful. I mean, if you want to back up a Brinks truck to Gill and drop off the $6M or whatever Wayne is owed, I'm sure we could speed up the process, but I think you can wait to see what you have next year before hitting the reset button again for the sixth time in 25 years. The way I look at it, a sweep this week and one win in the league tourney puts us in the NIT. Not horrible, not terrible, not even overly disappointing (somewhat disappointing yes). It's almost as if some here want a loss or two or three in a row coming up to justify their positions. I'm not saying we're even going to win any of those games, but I'm not calling the season a complete loss until it's over. That as much horse patooty as saying making the NIT suddenly makes WT a better coach. I'd venture to say there are many die hard Beaver fans on this board and elsewhere that as supportive of these kids as you and others claim to be, yet do not think WT is the coach to lead the program to the next level. HOWEVER, they do not wish losses on these kids, nor the program. If you want what is best for the University and players, you might think on IF WT actually provides that?? There needs to be no more losses to justify the obvious facts that literally stare those without orange goggles directly in the face over a declining period of almost 3 full seasons. Just as a 7-11, 1-1 finish to get to the NIT isn't a sign anything, anything at all is fixed or ok. A sudden jump to 8th place is good? Oh, yeah... the accepting of new norms says it's better than 11th so??? Head to the NIT and new recruits come flocking? The clock strikes midnight and WT sees the light on player development and depth? It seems that you may be guilty of a bit of projection concerning those that do not agree with you. Cast them in a more sinister light to hopefully make any future points less palatable? It's almost as if some have run out of straws to grasp to illustrate WT's effectiveness and now must claim some weak "straw man fallacy" that those point out WT's inadequacies must actually root against the OSU program. Try again... as this is by far and away the worst post you've written in what you've stated and implied. I've thought you as much better than that no matter what sides of the aisle we were on.
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