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Post by green85 on Jan 6, 2020 11:05:09 GMT -8
Henry Skrimpshander writes: "Grad transfers are supposed to be allowed only for academic reasons. They are almost universally bogus, as the player immediately leaves school once his/her eligibility is complete."Interesting observation. Do you have a reference for this info? Or is it based primarily on your observation of things? I've been curious for some time now as to how many "Grad transfers" actually enter (and complete) a grad program in their new school....If you have info to share on this topic, please do....(I'm interested in this topic but have not been able to track down any meaningful data in its regard.) GO BEAVS !! Is it possible that a grad transfer completes their graduate degree after they complete their professional sports career? |
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Post by bvrbooster on Jan 6, 2020 11:19:06 GMT -8
I looked at the PAC 12 site, and discovered where their error is. They show us playing 13 home games, 1 away game, and 0 neutral site games, whereas it's actually 10 home and 4 neutral. They show total attendance of 56,000 and something, which is too high. They then divided the 56,000 figure by 13 to come up with the 4,200 average. Wonder when they'll get that fixed, and wonder whose end the error is on. Also wonder if anybody on our end makes any effort to get such stuff corrected. The ESPN reporting site still shows capacity at Gill to be 9,604. I believe that the Maui games are considered home games -- we were the host of the tournament. That leaves the Liberty game, which was truly neutral and is counted as home. Don't think so. Even though we host that tournament, it's a neutral site, thousands of miles from home. We've hosted it for several years, but the attendance figures there were never included in home attendance. And how could a game in Miami, in a tournament hosted by another school, count as a home game for us. There's a reason there's a line for neutral site games in the PAC 12 stats. They have ours fouled up, plain and simple. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 6, 2020 13:32:49 GMT -8
Henry Skrimpshander writes: "Grad transfers are supposed to be allowed only for academic reasons. They are almost universally bogus, as the player immediately leaves school once his/her eligibility is complete."Interesting observation. Do you have a reference for this info? Or is it based primarily on your observation of things? I've been curious for some time now as to how many "Grad transfers" actually enter (and complete) a grad program in their new school....If you have info to share on this topic, please do....(I'm interested in this topic but have not been able to track down any meaningful data in its regard.) GO BEAVS !! First... Grad Transfers are not a huge issue/population. The latest #s from 2018 studies showed 599 total grad transfers out of 112,000 D1 athletes... less than 0.005 of all athletes. Second, the rule doesn't say anything about having to complete a grad degree, and why should it. The retention and grad rates for under grad degrees at some D1 schools are extremely low. The last study I saw tracked grad transfers from 2011-2012 over the two year period ending in 2014 and the rates for earning an Grad degree and withdrawing was pretty much expected. Most grad transfers (lead by football and MBB) leave after the term of the athletic eligibility expiring. The study I saw: Women's "other" sports: Grad Degree earned (66%)... withdrew early (16%) Women's Basketball: Grad Degree earned (47%)... withdrew early (40%) Men's "other" sports: Grad Degree earned (46%)... withdrew early (40%) Men's Basketball: Grad Degree earned (32%)... withdrew early (59%) Men's Football: Grad Degree earned (24%)... withdrew early (68%) Really not surprising since the last studies I read in early 2019 had: Students who started college in 2010 at a two-year or a four-year college pushed their combined overall completion rate–to earn either a bachelors, associate or certificate–to 60.4 percent in 8 years or less. Surprisingly to me... the rate to complete degrees by starting at 4-yr school vs 2-yr is vastly different... 68.8% to 45.3%!? Men are NOT keeping up with the women. The eight-year completion rate for men, at 57.4%, is below the six-year completion rate for women at 58.2%. For men, the six-year completion rate is 51.4 percent. Overall... -41% of students earning a BA/BS (or equivalent) in 4 years or less; -59% in 6 years -60% in 8 years (FYI the biggest jump since the 2016 data was the Hispanic student pop, +8.5% to 63.3%) With only 40% earning a grad degree in the 8 year windows of the multiple studies. |
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Post by kersting13 on Jan 6, 2020 13:45:01 GMT -8
Henry Skrimpshander writes: "Grad transfers are supposed to be allowed only for academic reasons. They are almost universally bogus, as the player immediately leaves school once his/her eligibility is complete."Interesting observation. Do you have a reference for this info? Or is it based primarily on your observation of things? I've been curious for some time now as to how many "Grad transfers" actually enter (and complete) a grad program in their new school....If you have info to share on this topic, please do....(I'm interested in this topic but have not been able to track down any meaningful data in its regard.) GO BEAVS !! First... Grad Transfers are not a huge issue/population. The latest #s from 2018 studies showed 599 total grad transfers out of 112,000 D1 athletes... less than 0.005 of all athletes. Second, the rule doesn't say anything about having to complete a grad degree, and why should it. The retention and grad rates for under grad degrees at some D1 schools are extremely low. The last study I saw tracked grad transfers from 2011-2012 over the two year period ending in 2014 and the rates for earning an Grad degree and withdrawing was pretty much expected. Most grad transfers (lead by football and MBB) leave after the term of the athletic eligibility expiring. The study I saw: Women's "other" sports: Grad Degree earned (66%)... withdrew early (16%) Women's Basketball: Grad Degree earned (47%)... withdrew early (40%) Men's "other" sports: Grad Degree earned (46%)... withdrew early (40%) Men's Basketball: Grad Degree earned (32%)... withdrew early (59%) Men's Football: Grad Degree earned (24%)... withdrew early (68%) Really not surprising since the last studies I read in early 2019 had: Students who started college in 2010 at a two-year or a four-year college pushed their combined overall completion rate–to earn either a bachelors, associate or certificate–to 60.4 percent in 8 years or less. Surprisingly to me... the rate to complete degrees by starting at 4-yr school vs 2-yr is vastly different... 68.8% to 45.3%!? Men are NOT keeping up with the women. The eight-year completion rate for men, at 57.4%, is below the six-year completion rate for women at 58.2%. For men, the six-year completion rate is 51.4 percent. Overall... -41% of students earning a BA/BS (or equivalent) in 4 years or less; -59% in 6 years -60% in 8 years (FYI the biggest jump since the 2016 data was the Hispanic student pop, +8.5% to 63.3%) With only 40% earning a grad degree in the 8 year windows of the multiple studies. I would think that 0.8% difference between men and women's rates could be explained away by the number of men who quit school early for opportunities in professional sports. Are there really many women who leave school early to pursue professional opportunities in their sport? There are probably at least a hundred Football and MBB players per year who do so. |
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Post by shelby on Jan 6, 2020 14:11:32 GMT -8
Grad transfers only concern post senior activity. That means your number of 112,000 understates the impact of this
Program. I will just put a wag number of 25% to that 112- and that means 28K as the ‘real pool’.
Also, the women’s part of the Early Professional departures, is really just maturing versus the men.
So, I believe there is a bigger delta in favor of women making the most out of the program and the opportunity.
Just a ‘one off’ sample ( not statistically significant ), look at Mikayla. She has already graduated, in three years - and continues to play and attend classes at OSU. She is an elite student athlete who has a career in both medicine and pro basketball available to her. She is rare in either the male or female category and made the decision based on her particular needs / desires.
Now, look at Minyon Moore . She graduated from USC ( great education ), but, takes an advanced degree path at uo.
I don’t believe she will finish that up, unless she wants to work in Thailand or Vietnam, making designs for athletic shoes( okay jk ), however, what more could she learn at uo in her field, than what she got at USC ?
So, different strokes for different folks.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 6, 2020 14:46:50 GMT -8
Grad transfers only concern post senior activity. That means your number of 112,000 understates the impact of this Program. I will just put a wag number of 25% to that 112- and that means 28K as the ‘real pool’. Also, the women’s part of the Early Professional departures, is really just maturing versus the men. So, I believe there is a bigger delta in favor of women making the most out of the program and the opportunity. Just a ‘one off’ sample ( not statistically significant ), look at Mikayla. She has already graduated, in three years - and continues to play and attend classes at OSU. She is an elite student athlete who has a career in both medicine and pro basketball available to her. She is rare in either the male or female category and made the decision based on her particular needs / desires. Now, look at Minyon Moore . She graduated from USC ( great education ), but, takes an advanced degree path at uo. I don’t believe she will finish that up, unless she wants to work in Thailand or Vietnam, making designs for athletic shoes( okay jk ), however, what more could she learn at uo in her field, than what she got at USC ? So, different strokes for different folks. The study is about the pool of D1 student athletes... and grad transfers make up a minuscule number in terms of rulings and NCAA input. As there is no requirement to actually finish a degree program why should anyone care if Moore or anyone else transfers to JUST play a sport. It's within the scope of the NCAA rules and open to all who meet the requirements. The most important of which is to have graduated... congrats to each that does. |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,830 
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Jan 6, 2020 14:52:33 GMT -8
Interesting and perhaps a bit off topic, but I wondered what came of our grad transfer (Breanna Brown) who went to Georgia Tech for some Media? related graduate degree, apparently not available at OSU...... While I can't tell if she graduated or not, she did apparently at least play some basketball after her college days: www.ballcharts.com/team/?team=wbcbl_Monarchs&pg=new&id=68910Go Beavers! |
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Post by Werebeaver on Jan 6, 2020 14:56:07 GMT -8
Grad transfers only concern post senior activity. That means your number of 112,000 understates the impact of this Program. I will just put a wag number of 25% to that 112- and that means 28K as the ‘real pool’. Also, the women’s part of the Early Professional departures, is really just maturing versus the men. So, I believe there is a bigger delta in favor of women making the most out of the program and the opportunity. Just a ‘one off’ sample ( not statistically significant ), look at Mikayla. She has already graduated, in three years - and continues to play and attend classes at OSU. She is an elite student athlete who has a career in both medicine and pro basketball available to her. She is rare in either the male or female category and made the decision based on her particular needs / desires. Now, look at Minyon Moore . She graduated from USC ( great education ), but, takes an advanced degree path at uo. I don’t believe she will finish that up, unless she wants to work in Thailand or Vietnam, making designs for athletic shoes( okay jk ), however, what more could she learn at uo in her field, than what she got at USC ? So, different strokes for different folks. No need to disparage Minyon Moore's academic achievements. I congratulate her for graduating early. She's doing nothing but playing by the rules. More power to her. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 6, 2020 14:58:35 GMT -8
Grad transfers only concern post senior activity. That means your number of 112,000 understates the impact of this Program. I will just put a wag number of 25% to that 112- and that means 28K as the ‘real pool’. Also, the women’s part of the Early Professional departures, is really just maturing versus the men. So, I believe there is a bigger delta in favor of women making the most out of the program and the opportunity. Just a ‘one off’ sample ( not statistically significant ), look at Mikayla. She has already graduated, in three years - and continues to play and attend classes at OSU. She is an elite student athlete who has a career in both medicine and pro basketball available to her. She is rare in either the male or female category and made the decision based on her particular needs / desires. Now, look at Minyon Moore . She graduated from USC ( great education ), but, takes an advanced degree path at uo. I don’t believe she will finish that up, unless she wants to work in Thailand or Vietnam, making designs for athletic shoes( okay jk ), however, what more could she learn at uo in her field, than what she got at USC ? So, different strokes for different folks. The study is about the pool of D1 student athletes... and grad transfers make up a minuscule number in terms of rulings and NCAA input. As there is no requirement to actually finish a degree program why should anyone care if Moore or anyone else transfers to JUST play a sport. It's within the scope of the NCAA rules and open to all who meet the requirements. The most important of which is to have graduated... congrats to each that does. I was surprised the percentages of getting post grad degrees were even that high. A lot of grad programs take more than one year to complete. |
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Post by shelby on Jan 6, 2020 15:12:37 GMT -8
I did not disparage Minyon Moore, and I understand it’s all legal. But, once things blow up - rules change and the NCAA is looking at this very program now. But, I also do not pretend to think they get ANYTHING right.
I know there are supporters and detractors ( for instance ), on the NCAA proposal to pay college athletes. I prefer old school, where the kids get tuition and books as well as food, athletic clothing, study hall and tutors, etc. while the average academic student gets tuition and books only.
Now, creating even more of a separation on campus, you will have student athletes getting additional perks. We can guess at the impact - but- it is just another example of the fact that ‘change exposes the cheaters’
Follow the money !
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Jan 6, 2020 15:33:20 GMT -8
Interesting and perhaps a bit off topic, but I wondered what came of our grad transfer (Breanna Brown) who went to Georgia Tech for some Media? related graduate degree, apparently not available at OSU...... While I can't tell if she graduated or not, she did apparently at least play some basketball after her college days: www.ballcharts.com/team/?team=wbcbl_Monarchs&pg=new&id=68910Go Beavers! IIRC Bre went for a grad degree in business. She wasn't able to break into the regular rotation. FWIW I told by someone close to her that part of the reason was also a difference in personal beliefs. It was apparent that she was not enjoying being with her teammates as her junior season progressed. By the end of the year she had distanced herself as she was preparing to transfer. |
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Post by bvrbooster on Jan 6, 2020 16:49:07 GMT -8
As the NCAA is caving on the California law, potential graduate transfers will shop for the best deal, including at their own school.
"I'd really like to stay for my last year here coach, but I've only got 1 endorsement deal in town which pays me X dollars. Coach Brown down in Los Angeles has promised me a minimum of 2 endorsements paying triple what I get here. Anything you can do on this end?"
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 6, 2020 17:11:56 GMT -8
As the NCAA is caving on the California law, potential graduate transfers will shop for the best deal, including at their own school. "I'd really like to stay for my last year here coach, but I've only got 1 endorsement deal in town which pays me X dollars. Coach Brown down in Los Angeles has promised me a minimum of 2 endorsements paying triple what I get here. Anything you can do on this end?" Not that cheating could or won't occur, but your post shows zero understanding of the Cali law and the NCAA response. Who knows what the end result will be, but it's not going to involve coaches getting players endorsement deals. |
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Post by sparty on Jan 6, 2020 19:35:41 GMT -8
As the NCAA is caving on the California law, potential graduate transfers will shop for the best deal, including at their own school. "I'd really like to stay for my last year here coach, but I've only got 1 endorsement deal in town which pays me X dollars. Coach Brown down in Los Angeles has promised me a minimum of 2 endorsements paying triple what I get here. Anything you can do on this end?" Kind of makes a person want to sing
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 6, 2020 20:06:10 GMT -8
As the NCAA is caving on the California law, potential graduate transfers will shop for the best deal, including at their own school. "I'd really like to stay for my last year here coach, but I've only got 1 endorsement deal in town which pays me X dollars. Coach Brown down in Los Angeles has promised me a minimum of 2 endorsements paying triple what I get here. Anything you can do on this end?" Not that cheating could or won't occur, but your post shows zero understanding of the Cali law and the NCAA response. Who knows what the end result will be, but it's not going to involve coaches getting players endorsement deals. The teams with the local Cal Northington or Tom Peterson will rule the recruiting world! |
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