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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 4, 2019 12:49:57 GMT -8
I think Peterson also learned that you get a different "type" of player at UW vs Boise. Sure his classes at UW were much higher rated, but he wasn't getting the academic causalities and non qualifiers that showed up in Boise with A GIANT CHIP on their shoulder like he had at BSU. This effects the mentality of a football team really for the better, instead he got a lot of guys that are enamored with the flash and dash of just being in Seattle and "getting chicks man". A lot of the things that help you get the best recruits isn't totally helpful in making them great players. Plus a lot like Mike Riley he wouldn't just flat out lie to players and say what he needed to say to get them to commit. I think he also learned how much of a grind it is to have to play 9-10 LEGIT teams, not being able to coast for 8 games of the season and prep your 2nd and 3rd team against the Cal Polys and Utah States of the world, instead you gotta strap up or a OSU or CAL or Zona is gonna come eat your lunch. I like Peterson, I think he is a heck of a coach, but I just didn't totally buy that he was going to make UW a National Powerhouse ala 1991. Lastly, I don't think he is done coaching totally. 2-3 year break max. I don't think he got a special type of player at BSU. Them getting questionable academic cases who couldn't qualify elsewhere is a total fugazi and we should stop propagating that piece of misinformation as a community. NCAA Division I requires 10 core courses to be completed prior to the seventh semester (seven of the 10 must be a combination of English, math or natural or physical science that meet the distribution requirements). These 10 courses become "locked in" at the start of the seventh semester and cannot be retaken for grade improvement. The whole Prop 48 for Division 1 went away in the early 2000's. They don't allow partial qualifiers or non qualifiers into school anymore, NCAA minimum requirements for Division 1 applies to all but Stanford and Cal in the Pac12. The other 10 schools adhere to NCAA minimums which are of course the same for Boise State. The difference between football at UW and at BSU was that the season isn't the same kind of grind on the bodies of the athletes that it is in the Pac12. You have got to have depth, luck, or some combination of both to win very many games in this league. When your schedule includes two or 3 P5 level schools per year, you have more latitude to develop prospects. BSU's preparation and execution under Peterson and having seasoned starters gave them more than a puncher's chance when they did step up a level in competition - and they played with an edge in those contests, having something to prove. Washington is a completely different program to manage. You have got to have depth and blue chip talent that can play early because you won't always get the time to develop them before they need to get pressed into duty. It's not "easier" to coach at UW, but I'm not convinced that it's more difficult either. Although this is common place here... completely make up BS to disparage opponents! |
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 4, 2019 12:59:19 GMT -8
I don't think he got a special type of player at BSU. Them getting questionable academic cases who couldn't qualify elsewhere is a total fugazi and we should stop propagating that piece of misinformation as a community. NCAA Division I requires 10 core courses to be completed prior to the seventh semester (seven of the 10 must be a combination of English, math or natural or physical science that meet the distribution requirements). These 10 courses become "locked in" at the start of the seventh semester and cannot be retaken for grade improvement. The whole Prop 48 for Division 1 went away in the early 2000's. They don't allow partial qualifiers or non qualifiers into school anymore, NCAA minimum requirements for Division 1 applies to all but Stanford and Cal in the Pac12. The other 10 schools adhere to NCAA minimums which are of course the same for Boise State. The difference between football at UW and at BSU was that the season isn't the same kind of grind on the bodies of the athletes that it is in the Pac12. You have got to have depth, luck, or some combination of both to win very many games in this league. When your schedule includes two or 3 P5 level schools per year, you have more latitude to develop prospects. BSU's preparation and execution under Peterson and having seasoned starters gave them more than a puncher's chance when they did step up a level in competition - and they played with an edge in those contests, having something to prove. Washington is a completely different program to manage. You have got to have depth and blue chip talent that can play early because you won't always get the time to develop them before they need to get pressed into duty. It's not "easier" to coach at UW, but I'm not convinced that it's more difficult either. Although this is common place here... completely make up BS to disparage opponents! I mean, there WAS definitely a time that non-P5 schools took advantage of this. Fresno State notably pursued NQ's (Bernard Berrian was one) who were phenomenal talents that couldn't get into school elsewhere. Boise State had similarly lax academic standards back then, and the program was running on questionable citizens like Ryan Dinwiddie. But that was all 20 years ago, guys. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 4, 2019 14:30:06 GMT -8
Although this is common place here... completely make up BS to disparage opponents! I mean, there WAS definitely a time that non-P5 schools took advantage of this. Fresno State notably pursued NQ's (Bernard Berrian was one) who were phenomenal talents that couldn't get into school elsewhere. Boise State had similarly lax academic standards back then, and the program was running on questionable citizens like Ryan Dinwiddie. But that was all 20 years ago, guys. We had our own partial qualifiers back then. The most infamous being Chad Scott in basketball.........who loves him some pizza & money. |
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 4, 2019 16:58:47 GMT -8
I mean, there WAS definitely a time that non-P5 schools took advantage of this. Fresno State notably pursued NQ's (Bernard Berrian was one) who were phenomenal talents that couldn't get into school elsewhere. Boise State had similarly lax academic standards back then, and the program was running on questionable citizens like Ryan Dinwiddie. But that was all 20 years ago, guys. We had our own partial qualifiers back then. The most infamous being Chad Scott in basketball.........who loves him some pizza & money. yup. Everyone did back in the day, but Pac10 schools could only take PQ's not NQ's and the conference slammed the door closed on it a lot sooner than the NCAA did as a whole. Hence the sand in the shorts feelings that still persist and drag on in urban legends. |
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Post by jimbeav on Dec 4, 2019 18:50:53 GMT -8
Back to the topic of Petersen leaving, am I the only one who gets a little sadistic joy at what a punch in the gut this must have been for Husky fans? They've been pining for that coach that's THE ONE ever since Don James left, and many thought they had him in Petersen. Got them to the Playoff's and everything. And then he leaves them hanging out of the blue.
I kinda love it, sorrynotsorry....
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 4, 2019 19:48:16 GMT -8
Back to the topic of Petersen leaving, am I the only one who gets a little sadistic joy at what a punch in the gut this must have been for Husky fans? They've been pining for that coach that's THE ONE ever since Don James left, and many thought they had him in Petersen. Got them to the Playoff's and everything. And then he leaves them hanging out of the blue. I kinda love it, sorrynotsorry.... I don't think they're in bad hands with Lake though. Petersen was known as an offensive guru and his departure will for sure be felt, but there isn't an overwhelming sense of impending doom out of Montlake IMO |
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Post by seastape on Dec 4, 2019 20:42:21 GMT -8
Although this is common place here... completely make up BS to disparage opponents! I mean, there WAS definitely a time that non-P5 schools took advantage of this. Fresno State notably pursued NQ's (Bernard Berrian was one) who were phenomenal talents that couldn't get into school elsewhere. Boise State had similarly lax academic standards back then, and the program was running on questionable citizens like Ryan Dinwiddie. But that was all 20 years ago, guys. So did the Pac 10. Russell White was a Prop 48 student at Cal. I had heard that he got to Cal and actually did pretty in taking care of the classroom work. |
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 4, 2019 22:08:41 GMT -8
I mean, there WAS definitely a time that non-P5 schools took advantage of this. Fresno State notably pursued NQ's (Bernard Berrian was one) who were phenomenal talents that couldn't get into school elsewhere. Boise State had similarly lax academic standards back then, and the program was running on questionable citizens like Ryan Dinwiddie. But that was all 20 years ago, guys. So did the Pac 10. Russell White was a Prop 48 student at Cal. I had heard that he got to Cal and actually did pretty in taking care of the classroom work. So that's a PQ. Either he had the grades but not the SAT score, or he had the SAT score and not the grades. Late 80's, early 90's the Pac10 was permitting this, and the deal was the player wasn't eligible his first year in school to play football but as long as he remained eligible and was in good standing, he would be 4 to play 4. Not all that easy a feat at Cal, either. At Fresno, Boise and the rest, they took NQ's. Kids that just had a high school diploma could enroll in underwater basketweaving and advanced truck driving, scrape by with a C- average and play football for a couple years at a 4 year university where they could get some attention from NFL scouts, instead of going the Juco route. |
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Post by seastape on Dec 4, 2019 23:09:08 GMT -8
So did the Pac 10. Russell White was a Prop 48 student at Cal. I had heard that he got to Cal and actually did pretty in taking care of the classroom work. So that's a PQ. Either he had the grades but not the SAT score, or he had the SAT score and not the grades. Late 80's, early 90's the Pac10 was permitting this, and the deal was the player wasn't eligible his first year in school to play football but as long as he remained eligible and was in good standing, he would be 4 to play 4. Not all that easy a feat at Cal, either. At Fresno, Boise and the rest, they took NQ's. Kids that just had a high school diploma could enroll in underwater basketweaving and advanced truck driving, scrape by with a C- average and play football for a couple years at a 4 year university where they could get some attention from NFL scouts, instead of going the Juco route. Agreed. Schools from the Big West and WAC had more lax standards than the Pac 10 for academics back in the day. At the same time, Pac 12 schools all have lowered their academic standards for athletes, especially athletes in the biggest sports. I mentioned Russell White above. He was a Prop 48 guy going to Cal, a school that even back then rejected 4.0 students (4.0 being the highest gpa possible at the time). OSU has pursued such athletes in various sports. Now, they just don't get in. Simi Kuli? I haven't noticed many verbal commitments not getting into school for academics under Tinkle, Smith, Casey and Rueck, but there was a fair amount of of it under Riley in football. Maybe it's just kept quiet these days. |
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 5, 2019 1:32:05 GMT -8
So that's a PQ. Either he had the grades but not the SAT score, or he had the SAT score and not the grades. Late 80's, early 90's the Pac10 was permitting this, and the deal was the player wasn't eligible his first year in school to play football but as long as he remained eligible and was in good standing, he would be 4 to play 4. Not all that easy a feat at Cal, either. At Fresno, Boise and the rest, they took NQ's. Kids that just had a high school diploma could enroll in underwater basketweaving and advanced truck driving, scrape by with a C- average and play football for a couple years at a 4 year university where they could get some attention from NFL scouts, instead of going the Juco route. Agreed. Schools from the Big West and WAC had more lax standards than the Pac 10 for academics back in the day. At the same time, Pac 12 schools all have lowered their academic standards for athletes, especially athletes in the biggest sports. I mentioned Russell White above. He was a Prop 48 guy going to Cal, a school that even back then rejected 4.0 students (4.0 being the highest gpa possible at the time). OSU has pursued such athletes in various sports. Now, they just don't get in. Simi Kuli? I haven't noticed many verbal commitments not getting into school for academics under Tinkle, Smith, Casey and Rueck, but there was a fair amount of of it under Riley in football. Maybe it's just kept quiet these days. Simi Kuli. Talk about a guy who just never met a bad choice he didn't like. But there's lots of guys like that in JuCo who go to play football, never go to class. At some point, some get a wake up call, sometimes it's too late. And some never get it at all. You hear about the academic commitment issues a lot sooner now because of the ever-changing requirements of the NCAA and now with the earlier visibility of prospective recruits thanks to the digital age, the conversation begins sooner. But there were some pretty large amendments to the requirements (moving the deadline to 7th semester of high school) in 2010 and 2016 I believe. We still have some guys who don't get in but I think there are just fewer guys who simply fall through the cracks these days. Much easier to stay in touch not only with the recruits but the recruit's coaches. Except in Hawaii, where the coaches are notoriously opposed to communication. And surprise surprise seems like Hawaii is the highest risk for academic casualties... |
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Post by beaverdude on Dec 5, 2019 7:29:04 GMT -8
Back to the topic of Petersen leaving, am I the only one who gets a little sadistic joy at what a punch in the gut this must have been for Husky fans? They've been pining for that coach that's THE ONE ever since Don James left, and many thought they had him in Petersen. Got them to the Playoff's and everything. And then he leaves them hanging out of the blue. I kinda love it, sorrynotsorry.... Remember what happened in Seattle when James d-coordinator was given the HC job...... The Lambright era... Hopefully history repeats itself |
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Post by biggieorange on Dec 5, 2019 8:52:45 GMT -8
I think Peterson also learned that you get a different "type" of player at UW vs Boise. Sure his classes at UW were much higher rated, but he wasn't getting the academic causalities and non qualifiers that showed up in Boise with A GIANT CHIP on their shoulder like he had at BSU. This effects the mentality of a football team really for the better, instead he got a lot of guys that are enamored with the flash and dash of just being in Seattle and "getting chicks man". A lot of the things that help you get the best recruits isn't totally helpful in making them great players. Plus a lot like Mike Riley he wouldn't just flat out lie to players and say what he needed to say to get them to commit. I think he also learned how much of a grind it is to have to play 9-10 LEGIT teams, not being able to coast for 8 games of the season and prep your 2nd and 3rd team against the Cal Polys and Utah States of the world, instead you gotta strap up or a OSU or CAL or Zona is gonna come eat your lunch. I like Peterson, I think he is a heck of a coach, but I just didn't totally buy that he was going to make UW a National Powerhouse ala 1991. Lastly, I don't think he is done coaching totally. 2-3 year break max. I don't think he got a special type of player at BSU. Them getting questionable academic cases who couldn't qualify elsewhere is a total fugazi and we should stop propagating that piece of misinformation as a community. NCAA Division I requires 10 core courses to be completed prior to the seventh semester (seven of the 10 must be a combination of English, math or natural or physical science that meet the distribution requirements). These 10 courses become "locked in" at the start of the seventh semester and cannot be retaken for grade improvement. The whole Prop 48 for Division 1 went away in the early 2000's. They don't allow partial qualifiers or non qualifiers into school anymore, NCAA minimum requirements for Division 1 applies to all but Stanford and Cal in the Pac12. The other 10 schools adhere to NCAA minimums which are of course the same for Boise State. The difference between football at UW and at BSU was that the season isn't the same kind of grind on the bodies of the athletes that it is in the Pac12. You have got to have depth, luck, or some combination of both to win very many games in this league. When your schedule includes two or 3 P5 level schools per year, you have more latitude to develop prospects. BSU's preparation and execution under Peterson and having seasoned starters gave them more than a puncher's chance when they did step up a level in competition - and they played with an edge in those contests, having something to prove. Washington is a completely different program to manage. You have got to have depth and blue chip talent that can play early because you won't always get the time to develop them before they need to get pressed into duty. It's not "easier" to coach at UW, but I'm not convinced that it's more difficult either. You are reading into this something that I did not intend.
I wasn't saying that BSU, in 2014 or today gets partial qualifiers, what I am saying is that the "type" of player they got and get today is different.
Coaching is primarily about communication, but all players do not react to coaches and messages the same.
It's why some coaches "overachieve" at a mid-major get the job at BIG STATE U and essentially go 8-5, 6-7, 9-4 and get canned.
I am well aware that BSU/Fresneck and the rest don't get these players in either anymore, but what does happen is you get the guys at those schools that were overlooked or had to go to Juco and have big talent, and have something to prove.
Vs the UW "average" recruit. Solid 3-4 stars, had multiple offers from Big12, Pac12, and Mtn West Schools, start looking at a transfer if they aren't in the starting lineup by their Junior year.
Peterson didn't go 7-6 and get canned, but it burnt him out, given that as I stated Coaching is primarily about communication, I will surmise that the last few years, he had to communicate much harder than he wanted without the results. Basically he wasn't getting the "over-achievement" that he past coaching efforts had.
Lastly I think overall, the football talent pool is shrinking and particularly on the West Coast as few boys play football. Lost of old perennial powerhouse high schools have super small rosters due to CTE concerns. This makes recruiting the few talented guys even more cutthroat.
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 5, 2019 9:24:27 GMT -8
I don't think he got a special type of player at BSU. Them getting questionable academic cases who couldn't qualify elsewhere is a total fugazi and we should stop propagating that piece of misinformation as a community. NCAA Division I requires 10 core courses to be completed prior to the seventh semester (seven of the 10 must be a combination of English, math or natural or physical science that meet the distribution requirements). These 10 courses become "locked in" at the start of the seventh semester and cannot be retaken for grade improvement. The whole Prop 48 for Division 1 went away in the early 2000's. They don't allow partial qualifiers or non qualifiers into school anymore, NCAA minimum requirements for Division 1 applies to all but Stanford and Cal in the Pac12. The other 10 schools adhere to NCAA minimums which are of course the same for Boise State. The difference between football at UW and at BSU was that the season isn't the same kind of grind on the bodies of the athletes that it is in the Pac12. You have got to have depth, luck, or some combination of both to win very many games in this league. When your schedule includes two or 3 P5 level schools per year, you have more latitude to develop prospects. BSU's preparation and execution under Peterson and having seasoned starters gave them more than a puncher's chance when they did step up a level in competition - and they played with an edge in those contests, having something to prove. Washington is a completely different program to manage. You have got to have depth and blue chip talent that can play early because you won't always get the time to develop them before they need to get pressed into duty. It's not "easier" to coach at UW, but I'm not convinced that it's more difficult either. You are reading into this something that I did not intend.
I wasn't saying that BSU, in 2014 or today gets partial qualifiers, what I am saying is that the "type" of player they got and get today is different.
Coaching is primarily about communication, but all players do not react to coaches and messages the same.
It's why some coaches "overachieve" at a mid-major get the job at BIG STATE U and essentially go 8-5, 6-7, 9-4 and get canned.
I am well aware that BSU/Fresneck and the rest don't get these players in either anymore, but what does happen is you get the guys at those schools that were overlooked or had to go to Juco and have big talent, and have something to prove.
Vs the UW "average" recruit. Solid 3-4 stars, had multiple offers from Big12, Pac12, and Mtn West Schools, start looking at a transfer if they aren't in the starting lineup by their Junior year.
Peterson didn't go 7-6 and get canned, but it burnt him out, given that as I stated Coaching is primarily about communication, I will surmise that the last few years, he had to communicate much harder than he wanted without the results. Basically he wasn't getting the "over-achievement" that he past coaching efforts had.
Lastly I think overall, the football talent pool is shrinking and particularly on the West Coast as few boys play football. Lost of old perennial powerhouse high schools have super small rosters due to CTE concerns. This makes recruiting the few talented guys even more cutthroat.
it was purely this comment that I was focusing on: "he wasn't getting the academic causalities and non qualifiers that showed up in Boise with A GIANT CHIP on their shoulder like he had at BSU" Didn't mean to necessarily single you out for disagreement, hope it didn't come off that way. |
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Post by biggieorange on Dec 16, 2019 13:39:54 GMT -8
You are reading into this something that I did not intend.
I wasn't saying that BSU, in 2014 or today gets partial qualifiers, what I am saying is that the "type" of player they got and get today is different.
Coaching is primarily about communication, but all players do not react to coaches and messages the same.
It's why some coaches "overachieve" at a mid-major get the job at BIG STATE U and essentially go 8-5, 6-7, 9-4 and get canned.
I am well aware that BSU/Fresneck and the rest don't get these players in either anymore, but what does happen is you get the guys at those schools that were overlooked or had to go to Juco and have big talent, and have something to prove.
Vs the UW "average" recruit. Solid 3-4 stars, had multiple offers from Big12, Pac12, and Mtn West Schools, start looking at a transfer if they aren't in the starting lineup by their Junior year.
Peterson didn't go 7-6 and get canned, but it burnt him out, given that as I stated Coaching is primarily about communication, I will surmise that the last few years, he had to communicate much harder than he wanted without the results. Basically he wasn't getting the "over-achievement" that he past coaching efforts had.
Lastly I think overall, the football talent pool is shrinking and particularly on the West Coast as few boys play football. Lost of old perennial powerhouse high schools have super small rosters due to CTE concerns. This makes recruiting the few talented guys even more cutthroat.
it was purely this comment that I was focusing on: "he wasn't getting the academic causalities and non qualifiers that showed up in Boise with A GIANT CHIP on their shoulder like he had at BSU" Didn't mean to necessarily single you out for disagreement, hope it didn't come off that way. No problem, I was just trying to point out the "type" of guy that you get affects your teams culture. Getting guys that maybe had to go the Juco route, but then refused to quit and has something to prove, changes your team.
Vs the "better" recruits you get at a UW, coaches have to change their methods of getting the most out of guys.
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