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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 11, 2019 11:38:44 GMT -8
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Post by ag87 on Oct 11, 2019 11:45:26 GMT -8
Not sure about ST and ET HS academics (but neither were recruited by Furd), but TT could not have gotten in to Furd, nor was recruited by them. Hence, using your logic they didn't so couldn't. And, denial of admission is the schools' opinion (among other federal factors that really do not affect athletes) that they would not be successful... it's why they have admission procedures in the first place! ALL coaches set the tone for their program... some stress different aspects more than others, so praising a coach for doing what he is supposed to seems to be reaching for something. Again... WT has zero to do with the actual academic successes. Those kids would have thrived academically under any regime, it's how they are built. The tone for academic success has varied some, but academic successes on the hoops squad has been fairly consistent throughout the last 20 years. And, the academic casualties the same. My cousin applied to Stanford out of HS. He was in various clubs, 4.0 student, never had a B in his life. Anyways, he was not admitted and he really wanted to go to Stanford. It is tough for even 4.0 students to get into. It is not like any high achieving student can't get in. I have heard from a colleague that went to both Stanford and OSU and she claimed that there isn't much of a difference between the two on the rigors of the academia. The admissions process is Very difficult. I know you are not the biggest Tinkle fan, but his W-L record is not the full story of his success here at OSU. He is setting a Culture of Success in the Classroom, and has been the most successful coach we have had since Ralph. No matter who is coach here, we are most likely going to be in the lower half of the so called recruting rankings based on location, prestige, etc. It is difficult to compete with the Arizona's, California schools and Seattle for 18 year olds. I went to Oregon State and loved it, but I can see why young athletes would prefer those locations. Also, that Tournament team that Tinkle led in 2016 was not just GPII. Tres was huge for us, Stevie, Drew did some solid stuff, and we had solid role players such as Malcolm, Drew, Olaf, Langston, Jarmal Reid, Derrick Bruce, etc. We were also a 7 seed and beat some good teams that year to get a good NCAA Resume (Tulsa, Utah, Oregon, Cal, Colorado, Washington, Iona, Nevada, USC) . That is quite impressive especially when the wheels fell off after Robinson left. I remember reading an article on how Tinkles first team was picked last in Pac 12 preseason rankings by the highest margin ever! That team managed to have a winning season! Beat a top 10 team (Arizona)! The next year he leads that same team to the 7th Seed in the Tourney! It was disappointing we lost to VCU, but we were without our 2nd best player Tres. Look, I am not exactly bragging about his overall record at OSU, and I was disappointed how last year finished after such a successful start in Pac 12 play. I am very confident that Wayne will build us into a consistent winner with numerous NCAA appearences in the future. I would gladly admit it if I am wrong, but I hope that we agree that we want what is best with the Men's program and we will both be happy when they make the tourney this year. I have a similar anecdote. I graduated from Roseburg in 1981. One of my friends wanted Stanford in a huge way. One B in hs, student government, wrestling (not so well, mostly JV, a lot of time looking at the ceiling), I think 1230 SAT. He got accepted by a couple ivy's but not Stanford. He ended up at the Air Force Academy. Last we talked about 7 years ago he had a decade in flying for Delta.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 11, 2019 11:54:08 GMT -8
Orange... we both agree on we want successes for OSU sports. My comments are based on the hypocrisy of what is expected of former and current OSU coaches and that on WT. The reach gets far and wide at times to prove he is a good coach, but the recruiting, teaching, results say something different.
I'm not sure what article you read but OSU was never picked to finish last after CR left in my memory/what I read. SC and UW were horrendous in league play, and WSU followed suit immediately. Funny the tourney run was based largely on huge contributions by CR players, although some give him credit for keeping GPII committed, but his Dad was completely in charge of that situation.
My biggest complaint is WT's complete lack of finding on-court leadership since the departure of GPII. The essential component of every successful team is the respected leadership of a player(s). We've had none since GPII and the offensive scheme and consistency suffer greatly... more so than the defensive side. If none of the new comers can step into that role and take command then this team will be like the last three teams... inconsistent and play below the level they should be playing at. It'll take a special kid to come in and command real respect from TT and the other vets... trust them to run the show and deliver the ball when needed. BUT... that kid(s) have to be allowed and supported to be said leaders... doesn't seem that is happening by how certain kids were played and how the offense is run.
And, I'll respectfully disagree... if you don't expect an OSU coach to compete with the Zona, Cali, Seattle areas why the eff do you hire or keep him? Or are we settling for 5th-9th every year?
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 11, 2019 12:00:23 GMT -8
Stevie graduated from a very reputable Southern California private school with a 4.33 GPA. He would have done just fine at Stanford, had he decided to go there.
OSU was picked to finish last in the 2014-15 preseason coaches poll, by a wide margin. We went 8-10 in conference, and did not finish last.
Men’s Basketball Media Preseason Poll
Place Team Points First place votes
1 Arizona 383 (31)
2 Utah 317
3 Colorado 316
4 UCLA 290 (1)
5 Stanford 264
6 Washington 189
7 California 188
8 Oregon 159
9 Arizona State 155
10 USC 106
11 Washington State 84
12 Oregon State 45
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 11, 2019 12:17:43 GMT -8
Orange... we both agree on we want successes for OSU sports. My comments are based on the hypocrisy of what is expected of former and current OSU coaches and that on WT. The reach gets far and wide at times to prove he is a good coach, but the recruiting, teaching, results say something different. I'm not sure what article you read but OSU was never picked to finish last after CR left in my memory/what I read. SC and UW were horrendous in league play, and WSU followed suit immediately. Funny the tourney run was based largely on huge contributions by CR players, although some give him credit for keeping GPII committed, but his Dad was completely in charge of that situation. My biggest complaint is WT's complete lack of finding on-court leadership since the departure of GPII. The essential component of every successful team is the respected leadership of a player(s). We've had none since GPII and the offensive scheme and consistency suffer greatly... more so than the defensive side. If none of the new comers can step into that role and take command then this team will be like the last three teams... inconsistent and play below the level they should be playing at. It'll take a special kid to come in and command real respect from TT and the other vets... trust them to run the show and deliver the ball when needed. BUT... that kid(s) have to be allowed and supported to be said leaders... doesn't seem that is happening by how certain kids were played and how the offense is run. And, I'll respectfully disagree... if you don't expect an OSU coach to compete with the Zona, Cali, Seattle areas why the eff do you hire or keep him? Or are we settling for 5th-9th every year? Your memory of the Pac 12 preseason picks in 2014 sucks. Very few pundits didn't pick OSU at the bottom. Tinkle inherited 6 or 7 scholarship players who were part time players, nobody scored more than 4 points a game. He also had Payton coming in. Everyone else was a walkon. I just Googled 2014 Pac 12 basketball preview and every one I opened had OSU at the bottom. I did find a CBS preview with multiple pundits where 1 didn't pick OSU to finish last. One out of six ain't bad... www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2014-15-college-basketball-conference-preview-pac-12/amp/"Since the Ralph Miller era ended in 1989, no Oregon State men's basketball coach has left the school with a winning record. That's six different coaches in those 25 years who have a combined .425 winning percentage with ZERO NCAA tournament appearances. New head man Wayne Tinkle appears well on his way to bucking that trend in the future, but it won't be this season. The Beavers lose starters Roberto Nelson and Devon Collier to graduation, Eric Moreland to the NBA draft, and Hallice Cooke to Iowa State. Tinkle will take his lumps this season in order to prepare for next year, when the Beavers have a consensus top-20 recruiting class coming in that includes Tinkle's son Tres, as well as two other four-star prospects. But this season will be a rough one in Corvallis, given that their leading returning scorer is Langston Morris-Walker at 4 points per game. But hey, at least Oregon State legend Gary Payton will probably turn up a few times this season to see his son play."
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 11, 2019 12:30:34 GMT -8
Orange... we both agree on we want successes for OSU sports. My comments are based on the hypocrisy of what is expected of former and current OSU coaches and that on WT. The reach gets far and wide at times to prove he is a good coach, but the recruiting, teaching, results say something different. I'm not sure what article you read but OSU was never picked to finish last after CR left in my memory/what I read. SC and UW were horrendous in league play, and WSU followed suit immediately. Funny the tourney run was based largely on huge contributions by CR players, although some give him credit for keeping GPII committed, but his Dad was completely in charge of that situation. My biggest complaint is WT's complete lack of finding on-court leadership since the departure of GPII. The essential component of every successful team is the respected leadership of a player(s). We've had none since GPII and the offensive scheme and consistency suffer greatly... more so than the defensive side. If none of the new comers can step into that role and take command then this team will be like the last three teams... inconsistent and play below the level they should be playing at. It'll take a special kid to come in and command real respect from TT and the other vets... trust them to run the show and deliver the ball when needed. BUT... that kid(s) have to be allowed and supported to be said leaders... doesn't seem that is happening by how certain kids were played and how the offense is run. And, I'll respectfully disagree... if you don't expect an OSU coach to compete with the Zona, Cali, Seattle areas why the eff do you hire or keep him? Or are we settling for 5th-9th every year? Your memory of the Pac 12 preseason picks in 2014 sucks. Very few pundits didn't pick OSU at the bottom. Tinkle inherited 6 or 7 scholarship players who were part time players, nobody scored more than 4 points a game. He also had Payton coming in. Everyone else was a walkon. I just Googled 2014 Pac 12 basketball preview and every one I opened had OSU at the bottom. I did find a CBS preview with multiple pundits where 1 didn't pick OSU to finish last. One out of six ain't bad... www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2014-15-college-basketball-conference-preview-pac-12/amp/"Since the Ralph Miller era ended in 1989, no Oregon State men's basketball coach has left the school with a winning record. That's six different coaches in those 25 years who have a combined .425 winning percentage with ZERO NCAA tournament appearances. New head man Wayne Tinkle appears well on his way to bucking that trend in the future, but it won't be this season. The Beavers lose starters Roberto Nelson and Devon Collier to graduation, Eric Moreland to the NBA draft, and Hallice Cooke to Iowa State. Tinkle will take his lumps this season in order to prepare for next year, when the Beavers have a consensus top-20 recruiting class coming in that includes Tinkle's son Tres, as well as two other four-star prospects. But this season will be a rough one in Corvallis, given that their leading returning scorer is Langston Morris-Walker at 4 points per game. But hey, at least Oregon State legend Gary Payton will probably turn up a few times this season to see his son play." Sux... as stated not all and rankings like the Pac12 preseason ranking are SO accurate! Funny achieving over a ranking counts, but underachieving others don't. So I'll stick to indisputable fact... 35-55... as in 10th best. Luckily WSU and Cal fell off to be that high. Two of top three recruits since hiring, only cuz pops was hired as assistant. As Stevie stated, OSU was really a blip until Dad was hired. Third is HC's son.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 11, 2019 12:37:09 GMT -8
More work than I have time for right now, but I'd bet that 10th best is better,possibly significantly, than any other 5 year period since Gary Payton graduated. Just sayin'.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 11, 2019 12:47:28 GMT -8
More work than I have time for right now, but I'd bet that 10th best is better,possibly significantly, than any other 5 year period since Gary Payton graduated. Just sayin'. Maybe... but, that's part of my point. That I'm making badly. Is it ok to just be as good or a bit better than the "crap" that came before? Early on it was give him time to recruit his own players. It's year 6. His own have been arguably worse in what seems to be a weaker conference. It seems that's the expectation for WT, and many excuse it away.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 11, 2019 13:41:24 GMT -8
Tinkle has had his own share of recruiting whiffs, and those have caused depth issues that cost wins the last 2 years, but his teams (excluding the one season) have been far more competitive than what we’ve seen in decades.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 11, 2019 15:41:46 GMT -8
Tinkle has had his own share of recruiting whiffs, and those have caused depth issues that cost wins the last 2 years, but his teams (excluding the one season) have been far more competitive than what we’ve seen in decades. Well... I'm not sure about that. Pac12 is considerably weaker in many regards to the trainwreck that was the JJ era... WT only +7 over 90 conference games. I'd say still weak and only +4 on CR after the same 90 games. Not sure I'd consider that "far more competitive"? But, to each his own. And, with the younger Barnes still as a walk on the families must be on good terms. So, not seeing mediocrity going anywhere soon.
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 11, 2019 16:54:04 GMT -8
Tinkle has had his own share of recruiting whiffs, and those have caused depth issues that cost wins the last 2 years, but his teams (excluding the one season) have been far more competitive than what we’ve seen in decades. Well... I'm not sure about that. Pac12 is considerably weaker in many regards to the trainwreck that was the JJ era... WT only +7 over 90 conference games. I'd say still weak and only +4 on CR after the same 90 games. Not sure I'd consider that "far more competitive"? But, to each his own. And, with the younger Barnes still as a walk on the families must be on good terms. So, not seeing mediocrity going anywhere soon. I will take another 4th place “mediocre” season this year, if it gets us in the dance.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 11, 2019 17:14:57 GMT -8
Well... I'm not sure about that. Pac12 is considerably weaker in many regards to the trainwreck that was the JJ era... WT only +7 over 90 conference games. I'd say still weak and only +4 on CR after the same 90 games. Not sure I'd consider that "far more competitive"? But, to each his own. And, with the younger Barnes still as a walk on the families must be on good terms. So, not seeing mediocrity going anywhere soon. I will take another 4th place “mediocre” season this year, if it gets us in the dance. IF... 4th doesn't do much losing your 1st game of the Pac12 tourney... so it's got to be 4th plus... But, 2-5 so far in the Pac12 post season doesn't really bode well.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 11, 2019 18:48:34 GMT -8
Tinkle has had his own share of recruiting whiffs, and those have caused depth issues that cost wins the last 2 years, but his teams (excluding the one season) have been far more competitive than what we’ve seen in decades. Well... I'm not sure about that. Pac12 is considerably weaker in many regards to the trainwreck that was the JJ era... WT only +7 over 90 conference games. I'd say still weak and only +4 on CR after the same 90 games. Not sure I'd consider that "far more competitive"? But, to each his own. And, with the younger Barnes still as a walk on the families must be on good terms. So, not seeing mediocrity going anywhere soon. You look at Tinkle as only being +4 and +7 over Jay and Robinson, I look at Jay and Robinson both having third seasons where they were starting a couple of seniors recruited by the previous coach and having other junior starters that were recruited in their first of three classes each, while Tinkle had a ZERO senior starters from the previous coach and ZERO junior starters he had recruited because due to his late hiring he only had two recruiting classes, not three as the other coaches had. You are NOT comparing apples to apples. In his third season Tinkle had zero 3rd and 4th year players (not his fault as he had been hired after those recruiting years) while the others had multiple 3rd and 4th year Beavers. Throw out that year to create an even playing field and replace it with his worst year otherwise and that +4 and +7 changes by quite a bit.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 11, 2019 19:19:52 GMT -8
Well... I'm not sure about that. Pac12 is considerably weaker in many regards to the trainwreck that was the JJ era... WT only +7 over 90 conference games. I'd say still weak and only +4 on CR after the same 90 games. Not sure I'd consider that "far more competitive"? But, to each his own. And, with the younger Barnes still as a walk on the families must be on good terms. So, not seeing mediocrity going anywhere soon. You look at Tinkle as only being +4 and +7 over Jay and Robinson, I look at Jay and Robinson both having third seasons where they were starting a couple of seniors recruited by the previous coach and having other junior starters that were recruited in their first of three classes each, while Tinkle had a ZERO senior starters from the previous coach and ZERO junior starters he had recruited because due to his late hiring he only had two recruiting classes, not three as the other coaches had. You are NOT comparing apples to apples. In his third season Tinkle had zero 3rd and 4th year players (not his fault as he had been hired after those recruiting years) while the others had multiple 3rd and 4th year Beavers. Throw out that year to create an even playing field and replace it with his worst year otherwise and that +4 and +7 changes by quite a bit. You play with the players you have. Period. Year three? Lol... he had tons year 1 and 2... his best seasons with CR recruits. Returning starters, seniors, juniors, etc. Those so called left over non starters were indeed upper classmen... GPII, Olaf, LMW, Reid, Gomis, Robbins all Jrs in year 1. Most key contributors. N'Diaye, Malcolm, GPII, LMW, Gomis, Olaf, Reid... year 2. How much more experience do you expect from a coach being leery go? Far far better than CR inherited. WT had two full recruiting cycles for year three... after year 1 and year 2. He had the opportunity for frosh and JCs. Other than coaches kids what say you on most of the others?
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 11, 2019 20:10:08 GMT -8
Far far better than Robinson inherited? Robinson inherited virtually every player John had that played a couple minutes a game but Marcel Jones. Every starter, every backup but a couple backups that left. He still had John players starting for him in year 3. None of the Robinson players Tinkle inherited were major contributors under Robinson, only one or two barely even managed 10 minutes a game under Robinson. No Robinson recruits other than oft injured N’Diaye existed on the team in Tinkle’s 3rd season.
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