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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 1, 2018 10:54:38 GMT -8
A home game easily surpasses the $1.7 mil when expenses for travel squad, coaches, trainers, support staff, admin, etc are considered. And, as mentioned the million(s) to the community. There is nothing positive to come from this trip unless you expect a upset. In fact besides the loss of revenue there is a very good chance vs a team extremely more talented and talented far deeper it could negatively effect the next two games that should be Ws. None of that is correct. Not even close. Especially on Labor Day weekend. It would've been a net loss to try to cancel the contract of this already scheduled game and make it a home game, instead, no matter how you slice it. I wasn't advocating making a habit of this type of one and done. Just that it's still a net positive, financially (compared to a Labor Day weekend home game). And now he edited to add in "cancelling" the contract... lol. That was not part of my initial post... PS- to cancel such a contact there had to be a replacement team to take both spots. OSU might owe a small portion of the $1.7m depending on the team... and pay for new opponent to travel to us. Net loss to cancel... but no where near the contract. And Labor Day games are not terribly attended. OSU could easily break even. PSS- revenue is averaged per game and although a lesser Labor Day game makes less, Pac12 games make much more.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 1, 2018 11:02:46 GMT -8
LMAO... average seat licenses for season tix and box holders average over $500k per home game... just 20k paid tix to a game (ave of NC and Pac12) is close to $800k... those are both on the low end... leaves out all the revenue... which more than pays for stadium expenses per game. OSU will net about 1.3mil or less from tOSU trip. As Barnes clearly stated, enjoy... last game of this kind. It isn't a "money maker" nor wise for football reasons. But, thx for you informative rebuttal. 😁 What you THINK are the per game "net revenue" amounts derived vs. what actually ARE is comical. Truly comical. You aren't even figuring in what PAYING the visiting team amounts to. Like I said, there is no way that cancelling a contract and adding a Labor Day weekend home game, instead, would even remotely come close to the visitor payout at Ohio State. Otherwise OSU would have done exactly that. Books/finances are public... search them out! And, you tossed in the "cancelling" after the fact. The original post was scheduling these body bag games vs home games. Again... OSU still could. But, not going to... and wouldn't make it public if trying. As stated you have to find two willing open opponents to fill the slots... late schedule changes happen typically for TV.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 1, 2018 11:05:58 GMT -8
A home game easily surpasses the $1.7 mil when expenses for travel squad, coaches, trainers, support staff, admin, etc are considered. And, as mentioned the million(s) to the community. There is nothing positive to come from this trip unless you expect a upset. In fact besides the loss of revenue there is a very good chance vs a team extremely more talented and talented far deeper it could negatively effect the next two games that should be Ws. None of that is correct. Not even close. Especially on Labor Day weekend. LOL, neither is your claim we were giving away 4,000 to 5,000 tickets to the military per game in 2014. That is unfettered horses%#t. $1.7 million isn't exactly an insurmountable task. Even at the most basic of napkin math levels, it means 42,500 tickets at $40. subtract an 8,000 ticket student allotment and you bump your average to $50. Unlikely? sure. of course. but not exactly impossible. Particularly if you take the full world view and instead of flying to a body bag game at a high cost (flight and boarding alone is over $100,000) you bring in a compelling opening day opponent. Is it really unlikely opening against Portland State? yes. is it more likely if we face a team with a pulse? no. not at all. Travel costs are not insignificant. You do not sell apparel, you do not sell concessions. The argument here is a quality home game can be as much as a body bag game, with less negative impact to the program!
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Post by mbabeav on Mar 1, 2018 11:33:33 GMT -8
I think this point is moot, the game is scheduled, we are playing, and someone could request total past football ticket receipts under a FIA process if they aren't readily available for the asking.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 1, 2018 12:02:31 GMT -8
No. The numbers that brought attendance even remotely near to 40K (in 2014 ) were due to massive "military day" ticket giveaways (most of the games vs. the usual one game per season) that highly inflated the numbers (like 4-5K minimum). As poor as the attendance drop-off was even in Andersen's first year, it would have been far worse had Riley remained (for 2015). Like 30K or under per game. You cannot make your numbers add up in any way, shape, or form to make a home Labor Day weekend game even remotely comparable (in income) to a $1.7M payout from Ohio State as the visiting team, so save it. The "OBN seat donation" part of the season ticket cost is an irrelevant factor in that equation. Completely off base... tickets are only a portion of home game revenue... parking permits, game day parking, concessions, merchandise etc all give a piece. Seat licenses certainly are a "cost" for tickets... goes to a different "account", but still ÷ 6 or 7 home games is a substantial amt per game raised. A home game easily surpasses the $1.7 mil when expenses for travel squad, coaches, trainers, support staff, admin, etc are considered. And, as mentioned the million(s) to the community. There is nothing positive to come from this trip unless you expect a upset. In fact besides the loss of revenue there is a very good chance vs a team extremely more talented and talented far deeper it could negatively effect the next two games that should be Ws. Obviously the current Admin agrees as they have said they aren't fans of this one and done scheduling. This is truly some awful math. You can't count parking permits and seat licenses into the equation because they are collecting the same dollar amount whether you have 6 or 7 home games. They do not adjust the seat license fee each year based on the number of home games.
By the people that I know in the department, we make no where near $1.7Mil from an OOC home game. There is a reason that this game was scheduled. It was for the money and nothing else. If we could get anywhere near that figure with a home game, they wouldn't have done it. Ask Bobby D sometime. He will tell you. This game was scheduled to assist with the buyout of Craig Robinson.
The current Admin is not in favor of this scheduling because we have been getting killed and it hampers our chances to get to a bowl game. It has nothing to do with the money.
The only part of your above statement that I can agree with is that a home game provides a lot of benefit to the community.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 1, 2018 12:54:04 GMT -8
LOL, neither is your claim we were giving away 4,000 to 5,000 tickets to the military per game in 2014. That is unfettered horses%#t. No it isn't. Anyone presently or who had ever served in the military was eligible for 4 tickets per game (for 4-5 of the 2014 home games). Yes it is. OSU had one military appreciation day in 2014. Nov 15th game against ASU. They allotted 2,000 tickets on a first come first serve basis. A max of 4 comp tickets per military member. The day was called BeaverSalute Saturday. osubeavers.com/news/2014/11/10/209759406.aspx?path=footballThey donated a number of tickets to the Veteran's Ticket Foundation, in sets of 4 for every home game. These were distributed through Vet Tix. it was in absolutely no way anywhere near 4,000. The amount varied per game, but it generally were not any more than a couple dozen sets. so a few hundred individual tickets. OSU has done this every year since at least 2012, and I think before. It has done this in 2015, 2016 and 2017. They also donate basketball and baseball tickets in this manner. If you want to say, we gave away 4,000 - 5,000 seats for the year to the military, yes. that is about right. But you are claiming on an every game basis we were donating MORE tickets than we donated on our specific, widely advertised military appreciation day. Why on earth would OSU be giving out 4 to 5K free military tickets on the down-low, then openly advertise a game in which they gave away fewer tickets? That doesn't even begin to get into the universe of how the math of 30,000 or so tickets being comped works into ticket sales figures... 30,000 tickets at a conservative $40 per ticket is $1.2 million. already about 150% total ticket sales revenue loss between 2013 and 2014 alone. That doesn't account for known sales decreases and other comped tickets. and while men's basketball enjoyed a nice attendance bump in 2014, it didn't bridge that gap alone.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 1, 2018 12:59:13 GMT -8
People from Europe or Asia who follow track and field aren't coming to OSU football games, so I don't care what they like. Football is king in the USA. Football is figuratively and quite literally a dying sport. Both attendance and ratings are down both in the NFL and NCAA. I get the feeling that football is coming up to a fiscal cliff very soon. You proposed committing more resources to a sport that is trending downward. I am saying that that is foolish. I like football, but it seems like football's zenith was several years ago at this point. BDC did not spend money on the program, when it could have made a difference. At this point, dumping money into the sport without the football team markedly improving is throwing good money after bad. Oregon State should work to diversify its sports programs, fund more teams and invest in those teams.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 1, 2018 13:07:04 GMT -8
Completely off base... tickets are only a portion of home game revenue... parking permits, game day parking, concessions, merchandise etc all give a piece. Seat licenses certainly are a "cost" for tickets... goes to a different "account", but still ÷ 6 or 7 home games is a substantial amt per game raised. A home game easily surpasses the $1.7 mil when expenses for travel squad, coaches, trainers, support staff, admin, etc are considered. And, as mentioned the million(s) to the community. There is nothing positive to come from this trip unless you expect a upset. In fact besides the loss of revenue there is a very good chance vs a team extremely more talented and talented far deeper it could negatively effect the next two games that should be Ws. Obviously the current Admin agrees as they have said they aren't fans of this one and done scheduling. This is truly some awful math. You can't count parking permits and seat licenses into the equation because they are collecting the same dollar amount whether you have 6 or 7 home games. They do not adjust the seat license fee each year based on the number of home games.
By the people that I know in the department, we make no where near $1.7Mil from an OOC home game. There is a reason that this game was scheduled. It was for the money and nothing else. If we could get anywhere near that figure with a home game, they wouldn't have done it. Ask Bobby D sometime. He will tell you. This game was scheduled to assist with the buyout of Craig Robinson.
The current Admin is not in favor of this scheduling because we have been getting killed and it hampers our chances to get to a bowl game. It has nothing to do with the money.
The only part of your above statement that I can agree with is that a home game provides a lot of benefit to the community.
WTF... what?? Same dollar amt? Dude your post is unusually lame and uneducated. Seat license revenue split over 6 or 7 home game raises over $500k/game... where is the world did anyone say the amount changes... game by game parking is revenue in over 20 lots... parking passes averaged over 6/7 games, Pac12 TV even is revenue if calculated by sport/game... etc You need to find new peeps in the "know" 😉 This game was scheduled many moons ago by a different AD in a different climate. No one argued it was not settled FOR money... but, there is minor aspects... exposure for recruiting, etc. But, in no way is it a significant "money maker" over a home game. Enough said on a topic of so little consequence.
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Post by obf on Mar 1, 2018 13:22:34 GMT -8
Not sure how the cancelling the Ohio State thing ever made it into this discussion... We are going to Ohio State, that has already been decided. This discussion was about scheduling body bag one offs going forward. Thus the discussion about the revenue from a lightly attended FCS game early in the season vs. the revenue from a hypothetical 1.7 million ish body bag game. Claiming that the only reason we accepted the game in the first place was for money and that proves that a body bag game nets more $$$ than a labour day weekend home game is one way to parse things. IMHO, it says way more about the short sightedness of Bobby D than actual money figures. It also speaks to some selfishness of the athletic department at the times part. Just factoring in the one singular 1.7 million dollar figure is a poor thought process. I would still maintain that the revenue difference between the body bag game and the home game actually favors the home game, but even discounting that, the benefits of a home game (and likely win) FAR outweigh any revenue surplus, not just for the team, but for the fans and the community. Not to mention the revenue difference in future games, the attendance difference of a game with your team 1-0 vs 0-1, or with an additional win instead of loss is very real. The only secondary benefit of a body bag game is for the very few boosters who would enjoy the trip (why anyone would enjoy paying a bunch of money and traveling to see their team destroyed I am not sure, I guess they want to check "The Shoe" off their bucket list?), but that is not even an option for the vast majority of Beaver fans... And that makes the good little democrat in me sad
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 1, 2018 13:40:53 GMT -8
This is truly some awful math. You can't count parking permits and seat licenses into the equation because they are collecting the same dollar amount whether you have 6 or 7 home games. They do not adjust the seat license fee each year based on the number of home games.
By the people that I know in the department, we make no where near $1.7Mil from an OOC home game. There is a reason that this game was scheduled. It was for the money and nothing else. If we could get anywhere near that figure with a home game, they wouldn't have done it. Ask Bobby D sometime. He will tell you. This game was scheduled to assist with the buyout of Craig Robinson.
The current Admin is not in favor of this scheduling because we have been getting killed and it hampers our chances to get to a bowl game. It has nothing to do with the money.
The only part of your above statement that I can agree with is that a home game provides a lot of benefit to the community.
WTF... what?? Same dollar amt? Dude your post is unusually lame and uneducated. Seat license revenue split over 6 or 7 home game raises over $500k/game... where is the world did anyone say the amount changes... game by game parking is revenue in over 20 lots... parking passes averaged over 6/7 games, Pac12 TV even is revenue if calculated by sport/game... etc You need to find new peeps in the "know" 😉 This game was scheduled many moons ago by a different AD in a different climate. No one argued it was not settled FOR money... but, there is minor aspects... exposure for recruiting, etc. But, in no way is it a significant "money maker" over a home game. Enough said on a topic of so little consequence. They get the same amount for annual seat donations and parking passes no matter how many home games we have. You can't say that by having another home game, we generate an additional $500K. We get the same amount for the year no matter how many home games we have. If you divide that amount by 6 games instead of 7, it is a higher amount per game but it is still the same total. If we changed the Oh St. game to a home game, we would not receive any additional revenue from annual parking and seat licenses. Your post figured in $500K for seat licensing if we have another home game and factored that into approaching a $1.7 mil figure.
You're wrong, my peeps are fine........and it is a significant money maker.
"No one argued it was not settled FOR money".........except for you and the other poster that said we could make nearly the same amount from a home game.
Enough said
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Post by nabeav on Mar 1, 2018 13:49:45 GMT -8
Barnes (at the Town Hall) said 'I hope everyone enjoys the trip to Columbus, because we won't be doing that again going forward'. As he pointed out, UW's appearance in the playoffs in 2016 showed that you only need an OOC with one P5 opponent. Well...yeah sure.....if you're a preseason top 15 school with consistent top 30 recruiting classes, it's a piece of cake to make the CFP....you just have to beat a top 10 team (Stanford) by 38 points on national TV on a Friday night, put up 70 vs. national darling Oregon on the road, win your first 9 games and have your only loss be to USC. It's easy! Oregon State is not Washington, or Alabama, or Clemson, or USC, or any other sexy team that can trade on their name to get the benefit of the doubt amongst a committee. To make the CFP, OSU would need to have an iron clad case. I hate to burst y'alls bubble, but OSU is not going undefeated in the Pac-12 any time soon. Since the conference went to a 9 game schedule in 2006, exactly one team has gone undefeated in conference (Oregon, 2010). In any given year, you can pretty much pencil in the SEC champ and the B1G champ as being in the playoff. Now, if you think a one-loss Oregon State team with wins over PSU, Wyoming, and a road win vs. UNLV will be picked over a 2 loss LSU, or a one loss Oklahoma...well then you've got more faith in the committee than I do. I think the only way we ever even get a sniff is if we're able to beat a damn good team early on and gain some momentum. Would I prefer a home and home? Of course. We got our asses handed to us in Madison in 2011, but we got to get a much worse version of Wisconsin on our turf in 2012. Sure, that Wisconsin team finished 8-6 and made the Rose Bowl thanks to every other good team in B1G being ineligible, but they came in ranked #12. We beat them, and we followed that up (after a convenient early season bye) with a road win at UCLA. Also, is there any evidence that going 6-6 and making a lower tier bowl game is better for your program than going 5-7 and missing out? 5-7 teams in Pac-12 since 20082008 Arizona State - Next season: 4-8 2008 Stanford - Next season: 8-5 2009 Washington - Next season: 7-6 2010 Oregon State - Next season: 3-9 2010 California - Next season: 7-6 2012 Utah - Next season: 5-7 2013 Utah - Next season: 9-4 2014 California - Next season: 8-5 2014 Oregon State - Next season: 2-10 2016 California - Next season: 5-7 2016 Arizona State - Next season: 7-6 Over 50% of teams that went 5-7 made a bowl game the next season. 6-6 teams in Pac-12 since 20082010 Washington - Next season: 7-6 2010 Arizona State (did not make bowl game) - Next season: 6-6 2011 Arizona State - Next season: 8-5 2011 UCLA - Next season: 9-5 2013 Oregon State -Next season: 5-7 2013 Washington State - Next season: 3-9 2015 Washington - Next season: 12-2 2015 Arizona - Next Season: 3-9 2015 Arizona State - Next season: 5-7 Throwing out Arizona State 2010, who didn't make a bowl game and therefore didn't get the benefit of the extra month of practice, 50% of 6-6 teams failed to make a bowl game the next season, and only two won more than 7 games during the regular season the next year. I don't buy it, just like I don't buy that a freshman kid coming for spring practice has a significant jump on a kid that shows up mid-June. All of this reinforces my belief that more people are going to travel to and/or be more excited about a game in Columbus or Baton Rouge or Ann Arbor or South Bend or Tuscaloosa or Gainesville or Austin or anywhere in September than they would be about going to see our team play in the New Mexico Bowl or the Heart of Dallas Bowl or the Foster Farms Bowl or the Cactus Bowl or any of those other bull crap bowl games in December.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 1, 2018 14:14:53 GMT -8
People from Europe or Asia who follow track and field aren't coming to OSU football games, so I don't care what they like. Football is king in the USA. Football is figuratively and quite literally a dying sport. Both attendance and ratings are down both in the NFL and NCAA. I get the feeling that football is coming up to a fiscal cliff very soon. You proposed committing more resources to a sport that is trending downward. I am saying that that is foolish. I like football, but it seems like football's zenith was several years ago at this point. BDC did not spend money on the program, when it could have made a difference. At this point, dumping money into the sport without the football team markedly improving is throwing good money after bad. Oregon State should work to diversify its sports programs, fund more teams and invest in those teams. basic data would indicate that, but I am not sure it is cut and dry. Attendance at NFL games fell nearly 500K this year. but with average attendance over 17 million, it represents a about a 3% dip. The impact is highly regional. TV ratings were down 9.7 percent in 2017... but there is a pretty big flaw in that number. Nielsen ratings do not capture online viewing. both Amazon Prime and Yahoo broadcasted games. Nielsen does not capture Red Zone viewers. Alternative viewing is not captured. Despite NFL ratings slides, 20 of the top 30 watched programs for networks were football games. Supporting the notion that alternative viewing is a larger piece of the puzzle is the fact that overall TV viewership is down. Every major broadcaster lost viewers in 2017, even when ignoring NFL impact. It isn't just NFL games being watched less. it is traditional TV being watched less. we won't know for a few more weeks, when the NFL fiscal year closes, but the bottom line numbers will come out soon. Revenue for the NFL continues to rise year over year. last year was a 10% year over year increase. Licensing and Merchandise continue to see explosive growth. the licensing payment EA make to the NFLPA for Madden jumped 24% last year. I do not think there is simple clear cut evidence football is dying. I do not deny that there is likely a bubble that is forming, I am just not so sure how imminent it is, nor how disastrous it will be. Brain injury is something that will be addressed in the every single year. We will see more and more players miss more and more time. We will see more and more penalties for aggressive hits. Will it harm the product on the field? Or will fans be accommodating to increased safety? Who knows. All I know is, I don't think evidence supports Footballs imminent demise.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 1, 2018 14:19:00 GMT -8
WTF... what?? Same dollar amt? Dude your post is unusually lame and uneducated. Seat license revenue split over 6 or 7 home game raises over $500k/game... where is the world did anyone say the amount changes... game by game parking is revenue in over 20 lots... parking passes averaged over 6/7 games, Pac12 TV even is revenue if calculated by sport/game... etc You need to find new peeps in the "know" 😉 This game was scheduled many moons ago by a different AD in a different climate. No one argued it was not settled FOR money... but, there is minor aspects... exposure for recruiting, etc. But, in no way is it a significant "money maker" over a home game. Enough said on a topic of so little consequence. They get the same amount for annual seat donations and parking passes no matter how many home games we have. You can't say that by having another home game, we generate an additional $500K. We get the same amount for the year no matter how many home games we have. If you divide that amount by 6 games instead of 7, it is a higher amount per game but it is still the same total. If we changed the Oh St. game to a home game, we would not receive any additional revenue from annual parking and seat licenses. Your post figured in $500K for seat licensing if we have another home game and factored that into approaching a $1.7 mil figure.
You're wrong, my peeps are fine........and it is a significant money maker.
"No one argued it was not settled FOR money".........except for you and the other poster that said we could make nearly the same amount from a home game.
Enough said
You have a severe reading comprehension issue or just ignore statements to try and make a non-point! LOL "additional" It is basic 5th grade Math and logic... there has been ZERO discussion about extra money... A home game brings in revenue... more than an away game after the expenses. You realize that bowls are a but different in nature, but some bowl payouts barely pay the teams expenses after league sharing etc. and they are somewhat subsidized for travel/lodging/food for the team and have far greater payouts than $1.7 mil. Let's make it more toward 1st grade... revenue for games are fixed and variable... Total revenue from fixed sources (licenses, parking passes, TV, etc) divided by 7 (vs 6 home games) is still exceeding $500-600k without one ticket bought. An EXTRA home game will increase the variable revenue stream... extra game season tix costs go up, daily parking, concessions, merchandise, walk up ticket sales (by the way freebies are written off for the face value x the # of tix and are a help the fiscal bottom line), etc. So... the fixed revenue (although divided by 7 home games) + the additional 7th game variable revenues will exceed the equal or exceed the $1.7mil after the travel, food, lodging, rental, etc expenses. Again... it does make money... purpose of why teams like OSU do it was never an issue. But giving your fans a home game with a chance of winning and improving any post season chances while at the same time making your program as much or more than a body bag game is ALWAYS best.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 1, 2018 14:20:18 GMT -8
Not sure how the cancelling the Ohio State thing ever made it into this discussion... We are going to Ohio State, that has already been decided. This discussion was about scheduling body bag one offs going forward. Thus the discussion about the revenue from a lightly attended FCS game early in the season vs. the revenue from a hypothetical 1.7 million ish body bag game. Claiming that the only reason we accepted the game in the first place was for money and that proves that a body bag game nets more $$$ than a labour day weekend home game is one way to parse things. IMHO, it says way more about the short sightedness of Bobby D than actual money figures. It also speaks to some selfishness of the athletic department at the times part. Just factoring in the one singular 1.7 million dollar figure is a poor thought process. I would still maintain that the revenue difference between the body bag game and the home game actually favors the home game, but even discounting that, the benefits of a home game (and likely win) FAR outweigh any revenue surplus, not just for the team, but for the fans and the community. Not to mention the revenue difference in future games, the attendance difference of a game with your team 1-0 vs 0-1, or with an additional win instead of loss is very real. The only secondary benefit of a body bag game is for the very few boosters who would enjoy the trip (why anyone would enjoy paying a bunch of money and traveling to see their team destroyed I am not sure, I guess they want to check "The Shoe" off their bucket list?), but that is not even an option for the vast majority of Beaver fans... And that makes the good little democrat in me sad I think your last paragraph is why the argument is here. Of course we know we are not changing the game. we are lamenting. and a few of us are making a case that a quality home game CAN BE (not necessarily is) as much money as Ohio State's payment, when you factor it all in. Ohio State is the immediate game, but the conversation is really a "Are body bag games worth it?". We are arguing the statements we are making. This game is short sighted, it is kind of dumb, and the money ain't worth it. I am in the camp of, get a decent team in here, and it is worth more than the $1.7 million to go to Ohio State in the early season and get our asses kicked. I believe a decent opponent can get enough fans here to make the revenue in a some what close zip code, we save on travel, we get more other sales and a 7th home game is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS better than only having 6. Always. Our labor day weekend home openers only ever have 35K people at them because we are always playing Sac St or Portland St... snooze fest to the casual non die hard fan.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 1, 2018 14:22:50 GMT -8
Barnes (at the Town Hall) said 'I hope everyone enjoys the trip to Columbus, because we won't be doing that again going forward'. As he pointed out, UW's appearance in the playoffs in 2016 showed that you only need an OOC with one P5 opponent. Well...yeah sure.....if you're a preseason top 15 school with consistent top 30 recruiting classes, it's a piece of cake to make the CFP....you just have to beat a top 10 team (Stanford) by 38 points on national TV on a Friday night, put up 70 vs. national darling Oregon on the road, win your first 9 games and have your only loss be to USC. It's easy! Oregon State is not Washington, or Alabama, or Clemson, or USC, or any other sexy team that can trade on their name to get the benefit of the doubt amongst a committee. To make the CFP, OSU would need to have an iron clad case. I hate to burst y'alls bubble, but OSU is not going undefeated in the Pac-12 any time soon. Since the conference went to a 9 game schedule in 2006, exactly one team has gone undefeated in conference (Oregon, 2010). In any given year, you can pretty much pencil in the SEC champ and the B1G champ as being in the playoff. Now, if you think a one-loss Oregon State team with wins over PSU, Wyoming, and a road win vs. UNLV will be picked over a 2 loss LSU, or a one loss Oklahoma...well then you've got more faith in the committee than I do. I think the only way we ever even get a sniff is if we're able to beat a damn good team early on and gain some momentum. Would I prefer a home and home? Of course. We got our asses handed to us in Madison in 2011, but we got to get a much worse version of Wisconsin on our turf in 2012. Sure, that Wisconsin team finished 8-6 and made the Rose Bowl thanks to every other good team in B1G being ineligible, but they came in ranked #12. We beat them, and we followed that up (after a convenient early season bye) with a road win at UCLA. Also, is there any evidence that going 6-6 and making a lower tier bowl game is better for your program than going 5-7 and missing out? 5-7 teams in Pac-12 since 20082008 Arizona State - Next season: 4-8 2008 Stanford - Next season: 8-5 2009 Washington - Next season: 7-6 2010 Oregon State - Next season: 3-9 2010 California - Next season: 7-6 2012 Utah - Next season: 5-7 2013 Utah - Next season: 9-4 2014 California - Next season: 8-5 2014 Oregon State - Next season: 2-10 2016 California - Next season: 5-7 2016 Arizona State - Next season: 7-6 Over 50% of teams that went 5-7 made a bowl game the next season. 6-6 teams in Pac-12 since 20082010 Washington - Next season: 7-6 2010 Arizona State (did not make bowl game) - Next season: 6-6 2011 Arizona State - Next season: 8-5 2011 UCLA - Next season: 9-5 2013 Oregon State -Next season: 5-7 2013 Washington State - Next season: 3-9 2015 Washington - Next season: 12-2 2015 Arizona - Next Season: 3-9 2015 Arizona State - Next season: 5-7 Throwing out Arizona State 2010, who didn't make a bowl game and therefore didn't get the benefit of the extra month of practice, 50% of 6-6 teams failed to make a bowl game the next season, and only two won more than 7 games during the regular season the next year. I don't buy it, just like I don't buy that a freshman kid coming for spring practice has a significant jump on a kid that shows up mid-June. All of this reinforces my belief that more people are going to travel to and/or be more excited about a game in Columbus or Baton Rouge or Ann Arbor or South Bend or Tuscaloosa or Gainesville or Austin or anywhere in September than they would be about going to see our team play in the New Mexico Bowl or the Heart of Dallas Bowl or the Foster Farms Bowl or the Cactus Bowl or any of those other bull crap bowl games in December. Wait... so your premise is that more people will attend a NC game in Sept over going to a bowl game that is affiliated with the Pac12? I'm guessing you have not traveled to many of those games and/or the bowl games we've played in... cuz it's not true.
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