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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 11, 2018 17:19:38 GMT -8
Beaver love not withstanding, "CRAZY GOOD" is reserved for a VERY VERY select few. Grenier is college good... maybe very good. But, he's not 1st Rd crazy good. He's as good as player that goes to college vs straight to minors or draft when first eligible. But, if you've seen as much baseball as I've seen you temper evaluations with love of team versus major league sure thing. Not even Nick is a MLB sure thing... and I'm of the opinion that Grenier is the better prospect. I'll also day that scouts think Gretler has the most room to grow and is the most versatile. Losing all three after 2018 will be a huge huge deal. I'm not sure PC has had three better I the infield at the same time. Well....coming out of HS he actually WAS "1st Rd crazy good" according to the vaunted St. Louis Cardinal scouting system. They wanted Grenier in the 1st Round at 18th overall with an offer somewhere in the 4 million dollar range...when he made it clear he would become a Beav - under those circumstances - they went elsewhere with that draft pick. Now maybe they were wrong in their assessment and he would have struggled in various A and AA assignments out of HS as an 18 - 20 year old. Thankfully, we'll never know. With certainty, it can surely be said that the Gretler - Grenier - Madrigal presence hold a very special promise for all of us Beaver fans this season...and something that will likely provide a lot smiles to the faces of Beaver pitchers this season. Not too argue but Caden was never a 1st rounder in the truest sense... the Cardinals wanted to sign him at #23 for way under slot to use the $ elsewhere. He was rated as high as #7 HS SS (20th overall), but his bat was "minor league". Getting great "potential" in the first round for below slot money is the newest ploy of major league teams. See Drew Rasmussen. They are not worth 1st Rd money, but worth the slot to use savings (if they accept lower $) for other signings. In fact right now he is the 3rd highest rated draftable player on our roster to most scouts... about #40-50 in the top 150 (college only) this year, behind even Trevor. He was a possible 23rd overall, but he/his Dad wanted a s%#t load of $. They took him in the 21st round after other teams refused the extremely high signing bonus being asked. So... yes... he was 1st round draftee, but for a monetary reason more than only his skill level. That said... I think he's a better/ best overall prospect on OSU's roster. Yep... even over the more highly hyped Nick... |
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Post by justdamwin on Feb 11, 2018 18:06:27 GMT -8
Adley - 5 Gretler - 5 Madrigal - 3 Grenier - 4 Anderson - 3 Nobach - 3 Kwan - 1 Larnach - 8 Your team leader, silent assassin, consummate hard worker regresses in home runs? Hitting from the same spot in the lineup (one has to think). |
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Post by BeaverG20 on Feb 11, 2018 18:24:40 GMT -8
Adley - 5 Gretler - 5 Madrigal - 3 Grenier - 4 Anderson - 3 Nobach - 3 Kwan - 1 Larnach - 8 Your team leader, silent assassin, consummate hard worker regresses in home runs? Hitting from the same spot in the lineup (one has to think). Yeah. He's not a home run hitter, and really shouldn't be trying to hit them anyway. If he hits 4 or 5, that is all good. Just a prediction. Also , baseball is the funniest of games. He may accidentally hit 7, or finish the year with 2. He is older and more experienced, so he should know his job is to get on base, not to go yard. He needs to be more DJ LeMahieu, less Jeff Kent. OSU has plenty of guys to drive him in. I'd rather see him with a .500 OBP and 60 runs scored than 5 home runs on the year. |
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Post by ricke71 on Feb 11, 2018 18:25:50 GMT -8
Appreciate the perspective on Grenier draft-out-of-HS scenario "Not too argue but Caden was never a 1st rounder in the truest sense..." I probably had my stories/sources mixed up - AND that's all good, and certainly water under the bridge....And of course, the BEST, is that OSU got him for 3 seasons much to our delight. I was lucky enough to see him play at least a dozen times in the summer that he came out of HS, playing for Bend. I follow WCL pretty closely, and have for years. There has never been a better SS in WCL (to my eyes) than Grenier. Not a game went by that season in which he didn't make at least one play that no other shortstop (well...maybe Madrigal for the Knights, also fresh out of HS) in the league could have made. Those Bend v Corvallis games that summer were a pure joy, and a great preview of what stands now as possibly the best DP combination in the NCAA.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 11, 2018 19:26:33 GMT -8
Appreciate the perspective on Grenier draft-out-of-HS scenario "Not too argue but Caden was never a 1st rounder in the truest sense..." I probably had my stories/sources mixed up - AND that's all good, and certainly water under the bridge....And of course, the BEST, is that OSU got him for 3 seasons much to our delight. I was lucky enough to see him play at least a dozen times in the summer that he came out of HS, playing for Bend. I follow WCL pretty closely, and have for years. There has never been a better SS in WCL (to my eyes) than Grenier. Not a game went by that season in which he didn't make at least one play that no other shortstop (well...maybe Madrigal for the Knights, also fresh out of HS) in the league could have made. Those Bend v Corvallis games that summer were a pure joy, and a great preview of what stands now as possibly the best DP combination in the NCAA. No you're right... Cards did discuss with he and his family the 23rd spot. But, the Grenier's had a #... believe it was over $4 mil... that wasn't in the "cards" for any them ot other team on day two. I think they decided college was the best option... good for him and us... unless it was a truly life altering signing bonus. Most HSers/parents aren't as "mature" as the Greniers. Shine high 6 figures/ low 7 and 90% sign. |
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Post by ag87 on Feb 11, 2018 21:26:26 GMT -8
Well....coming out of HS he actually WAS "1st Rd crazy good" according to the vaunted St. Louis Cardinal scouting system. They wanted Grenier in the 1st Round at 18th overall with an offer somewhere in the 4 million dollar range...when he made it clear he would become a Beav - under those circumstances - they went elsewhere with that draft pick. Now maybe they were wrong in their assessment and he would have struggled in various A and AA assignments out of HS as an 18 - 20 year old. Thankfully, we'll never know. With certainty, it can surely be said that the Gretler - Grenier - Madrigal presence hold a very special promise for all of us Beaver fans this season...and something that will likely provide a lot smiles to the faces of Beaver pitchers this season. Not too argue but Caden was never a 1st rounder in the truest sense... the Cardinals wanted to sign him at #23 for way under slot to use the $ elsewhere. He was rated as high as #7 HS SS (20th overall), but his bat was "minor league". Getting great "potential" in the first round for below slot money is the newest ploy of major league teams. See Drew Rasmussen. They are not worth 1st Rd money, but worth the slot to use savings (if they accept lower $) for other signings. In fact right now he is the 3rd highest rated draftable player on our roster to most scouts... about #40-50 in the top 150 (college only) this year, behind even Trevor. He was a possible 23rd overall, but he/his Dad wanted a s%#t load of $. They took him in the 21st round after other teams refused the extremely high signing bonus being asked. So... yes... he was 1st round draftee, but for a monetary reason more than only his skill level. That said... I think he's a better/ best overall prospect on OSU's roster. Yep... even over the more highly hyped Nick... I'm curious why you think Grenier is a better prospect than Madrigal. I've only watched maybe 10 games on TV the last two years - not much a sample size. But Madrigal's offensive numbers are so much better. Do you think Grenier's approach/swing will better translate to high-level (MLB) pitching? Of OSU's "better than average, but not outstanding" hitters, the only one I can think of that made MLB is Darwin Barney. That's where I see Grenier at this time while I think Madrigal may be a fixture at future all-star games. |
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Post by beavermd on Feb 11, 2018 23:27:23 GMT -8
Well....coming out of HS he actually WAS "1st Rd crazy good" according to the vaunted St. Louis Cardinal scouting system. They wanted Grenier in the 1st Round at 18th overall with an offer somewhere in the 4 million dollar range...when he made it clear he would become a Beav - under those circumstances - they went elsewhere with that draft pick. Now maybe they were wrong in their assessment and he would have struggled in various A and AA assignments out of HS as an 18 - 20 year old. Thankfully, we'll never know. With certainty, it can surely be said that the Gretler - Grenier - Madrigal presence hold a very special promise for all of us Beaver fans this season...and something that will likely provide a lot smiles to the faces of Beaver pitchers this season. Not too argue but Caden was never a 1st rounder in the truest sense... the Cardinals wanted to sign him at #23 for way under slot to use the $ elsewhere. He was rated as high as #7 HS SS (20th overall), but his bat was "minor league". Getting great "potential" in the first round for below slot money is the newest ploy of major league teams. See Drew Rasmussen. They are not worth 1st Rd money, but worth the slot to use savings (if they accept lower $) for other signings. In fact right now he is the 3rd highest rated draftable player on our roster to most scouts... about #40-50 in the top 150 (college only) this year, behind even Trevor. He was a possible 23rd overall, but he/his Dad wanted a s%#t load of $. They took him in the 21st round after other teams refused the extremely high signing bonus being asked. So... yes... he was 1st round draftee, but for a monetary reason more than only his skill level. That said... I think he's a better/ best overall prospect on OSU's roster. Yep... even over the more highly hyped Nick... Better prospect than Nick? Lolz...hot take alert |
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Post by abureid on Feb 11, 2018 23:32:57 GMT -8
Grenier may not hit for a high average, but he is a really tough out. He grinds out AB's and finds ways to get on base.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 11, 2018 23:59:15 GMT -8
Not too argue but Caden was never a 1st rounder in the truest sense... the Cardinals wanted to sign him at #23 for way under slot to use the $ elsewhere. He was rated as high as #7 HS SS (20th overall), but his bat was "minor league". Getting great "potential" in the first round for below slot money is the newest ploy of major league teams. See Drew Rasmussen. They are not worth 1st Rd money, but worth the slot to use savings (if they accept lower $) for other signings. In fact right now he is the 3rd highest rated draftable player on our roster to most scouts... about #40-50 in the top 150 (college only) this year, behind even Trevor. He was a possible 23rd overall, but he/his Dad wanted a s%#t load of $. They took him in the 21st round after other teams refused the extremely high signing bonus being asked. So... yes... he was 1st round draftee, but for a monetary reason more than only his skill level. That said... I think he's a better/ best overall prospect on OSU's roster. Yep... even over the more highly hyped Nick... I'm curious why you think Grenier is a better prospect than Madrigal. I've only watched maybe 10 games on TV the last two years - not much a sample size. But Madrigal's offensive numbers are so much better. Do you think Grenier's approach/swing will better translate to high-level (MLB) pitching? Of OSU's "better than average, but not outstanding" hitters, the only one I can think of that made MLB is Darwin Barney. That's where I see Grenier at this time while I think Madrigal may be a fixture at future all-star games. Without going into great detail... Grenier is just now touching the surface at the plate. His swing is much more compact... he hits with power rcf to pull... grinds out ABs... no real holes at the plate. On defense he's got better feet and a much stronger arm. He could actually play every position in the infield if needed. If he develops more pop he's seen as a very athletic 3B... but, has such good instincts at SS, especially going to his right, SS is home. Nick gets more hype, deserved at this point. But, Nick is seen as closer to a "finished" product closer to his ceiling and really only a 2B moving forward. |
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Post by ochobeavo on Feb 12, 2018 7:40:16 GMT -8
I'm curious why you think Grenier is a better prospect than Madrigal. I've only watched maybe 10 games on TV the last two years - not much a sample size. But Madrigal's offensive numbers are so much better. Do you think Grenier's approach/swing will better translate to high-level (MLB) pitching? Of OSU's "better than average, but not outstanding" hitters, the only one I can think of that made MLB is Darwin Barney. That's where I see Grenier at this time while I think Madrigal may be a fixture at future all-star games. Without going into great detail... Grenier is just now touching the surface at the plate. His swing is much more compact... he hits with power rcf to pull... grinds out ABs... no real holes at the plate. On defense he's got better feet and a much stronger arm. He could actually play every position in the infield if needed. If he develops more pop he's seen as a very athletic 3B... but, has such good instincts at SS, especially going to his right, SS is home. Nick gets more hype, deserved at this point. But, Nick is seen as closer to a "finished" product closer to his ceiling and really only a 2B moving forward. I actually said that same thing to my buddy last year and he thought I was nuts (and I was sober too!) - really for those same reasons you mention, I think Cadyn just might have the higher ceiling when it's all said and done. And I'm a huge Madrigal fan. For now, all I know is that we're going to be ridiculously good up the middle this year. Can't wait to get the season going. |
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Post by thewizard on Feb 12, 2018 7:51:42 GMT -8
"... the two in the middle are good, but not so crazy good they can make up for the ball finding other people..." OF course they can't do anything about the ball reaching other players - that's' a no-brainer. But at least in the case of Grenier....He IS CRAZY GOOD. And Nick is quite a bit better than "good" as well. Beaver love not withstanding, "CRAZY GOOD" is reserved for a VERY VERY select few. Grenier is college good... maybe very good. But, he's not 1st Rd crazy good. He's as good as player that goes to college vs straight to minors or draft when first eligible. But, if you've seen as much baseball as I've seen you temper evaluations with love of team versus major league sure thing. Not even Nick is a MLB sure thing... and I'm of the opinion that Grenier is the better prospect. I'll also day that scouts think Gretler has the most room to grow and is the most versatile. Losing all three after 2018 will be a huge huge deal. I'm not sure PC has had three better I the infield at the same time. I just want to remind everyone that Grenier only had 8 errors in his second season with the Beavers. That is pretty DAM good for a PAC-12 Shortstop. Do you know how many the great Darwin Barney and future Gold Glove Winner had in his career at Oregon State? Everybody always saying that Barney was a great defensive SS, but he recorded 22, 24 and 17 errors in his three year career. Grenier has recorded 17 total errors through 2 full seasons. Just saying... Grenier is "CRAZY" good. Stats don't lie. |
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Post by ochobeavo on Feb 12, 2018 7:58:17 GMT -8
Beaver love not withstanding, "CRAZY GOOD" is reserved for a VERY VERY select few. Grenier is college good... maybe very good. But, he's not 1st Rd crazy good. He's as good as player that goes to college vs straight to minors or draft when first eligible. But, if you've seen as much baseball as I've seen you temper evaluations with love of team versus major league sure thing. Not even Nick is a MLB sure thing... and I'm of the opinion that Grenier is the better prospect. I'll also day that scouts think Gretler has the most room to grow and is the most versatile. Losing all three after 2018 will be a huge huge deal. I'm not sure PC has had three better I the infield at the same time. I just want to remind everyone that Grenier only had 8 errors in his second season with the Beavers. That is pretty DAM good for a PAC-12 Shortstop. Do you know how many the great Darwin Barney and future Gold Glove Winner had in his career at Oregon State? Everybody always saying that Barney was a great defensive SS, but he recorded 22, 24 and 17 errors in his three year career. Grenier has recorded 17 total errors through 2 full seasons. Just saying... Grenier is "CRAZY" good. Stats don't lie. The thing that continually blows me away about CG - watching him for a series, he's going to make 2-3 insane plays look completely routine. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 12, 2018 10:02:14 GMT -8
Stats don't lie, but they don't always tell the whole picture, either. If I'm not mistaken, Darwin played on grass and dirt at OSU, Grenier on turf. Big difference.
Most of Darwin's errors were throwing errors, he often sailed the ball. Obviously he got that straightened out, and the shorter throw from second in the pros helped.
Grenier needs to stablize his back foot to reach his full potential as a hitter. He struck out 47 times last year. Madrigal struck out 16 times.
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Post by beavermd on Feb 12, 2018 11:16:15 GMT -8
Stats don't lie, but they don't always tell the whole picture, either. If I'm not mistaken, Darwin played on grass and dirt at OSU, Grenier on turf. Big difference. Most of Darwin's errors were throwing errors, he often sailed the ball. Obviously he got that straightened out, and the shorter throw from second in the pros helped. Grenier needs to stablize his back foot to reach his full potential as a hitter. He struck out 47 times last year. Madrigal struck out 16 times. Whoever said Grenier has no holes at the plate clearly isn’t paying attention. Also, let’s not forget Madrigal won defensive player of the year last year. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 12, 2018 11:25:16 GMT -8
Stats don't lie, but they don't always tell the whole picture, either. If I'm not mistaken, Darwin played on grass and dirt at OSU, Grenier on turf. Big difference. Most of Darwin's errors were throwing errors, he often sailed the ball. Obviously he got that straightened out, and the shorter throw from second in the pros helped. Grenier needs to stablize his back foot to reach his full potential as a hitter. He struck out 47 times last year. Madrigal struck out 16 times. Whoever said Grenier has no holes at the plate clearly isn’t paying attention. Also, let’s not forget Madrigal won defensive player of the year last year. Obviously you equate "no holes" with... high average or not striking out. I'll leave you to diagnose in you're expertise and go with mine (and those of lead scouts) in baseball. |
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