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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 29, 2016 10:05:28 GMT -8
Right??? Keeping this short... there is just too much disparity between how we play game to game. Even the coaching seems different... as if they expected this group to have more basic skills/fundamentals because they were here a year or big time recruits. As most on here praise GPII, and rightly so, and fear his departure I'm really not that concerned. He has probably been the most inconsistent player we've had considering what he is capable of and then see his extreme highs and lows. I'm greatly disappointed in his "leadership" in terms of consistency. It is the number one reason I think there is something amiss somewhere, as that just has not been GPII's calling card. Watching last years offense... excluding GPII being part of both teams, it does not change the fact in what I see on the floor is vastly different... how and where the offense is initiated, the screening/backdoor cuts, ball movement/reversal, v-cuts sharper off screens, etc. I will not even go into the defense as much, as it is truly a pathetic sight to see at times. Just the hustle in transition is terrible... Poor technique on hedging/recovering, redounding footwork/blocking out... on and on. My larger concern... is there stuff going on behind the scenes? Of all the stuff that goes on it just seems like the kids are not listening/tuning out, and NOT playing together. It seems like there might be a "division" on this team. Even the coaches seem to be at a loss sometimes. WT is always emotional, but looking at the other coaches they seem to be a little shocked at what they see on the court. I do not know what is going on, but I do know it has to be more than JUST youth, or the ability to focus game to game.
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Post by georgevonbeaverstrom on Jan 29, 2016 10:44:05 GMT -8
I've wondered about behind the scenes chemistry. When you have a bunch of freshman (including in this case, coaches sons) taking playing time away from juniors/seniors, it certainly has some potential to go south quickly. Not saying that's the case by any means, I really have no idea.. But I definitely have thought about that more than once.
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Post by TheGlove on Jan 29, 2016 11:27:22 GMT -8
Right??? Keeping this short... there is just too much disparity between how we play game to game. Even the coaching seems different... as if they expected this group to have more basic skills/fundamentals because they were here a year or big time recruits. As most on here praise GPII, and rightly so, and fear his departure I'm really not that concerned. He has probably been the most inconsistent player we've had considering what he is capable of and then see his extreme highs and lows. I'm greatly disappointed in his "leadership" in terms of consistency. It is the number one reason I think there is something amiss somewhere, as that just has not been GPII's calling card. Watching last years offense... excluding GPII being part of both teams, it does not change the fact in what I see on the floor is vastly different... how and where the offense is initiated, the screening/backdoor cuts, ball movement/reversal, v-cuts sharper off screens, etc. I will not even go into the defense as much, as it is truly a pathetic sight to see at times. Just the hustle in transition is terrible... Poor technique on hedging/recovering, redounding footwork/blocking out... on and on. My larger concern... is there stuff going on behind the scenes? Of all the stuff that goes on it just seems like the kids are not listening/tuning out, and NOT playing together. It seems like there might be a "division" on this team. Even the coaches seem to be at a loss sometimes. WT is always emotional, but looking at the other coaches they seem to be a little shocked at what they see on the court. I do not know what is going on, but I do know it has to be more than JUST youth, or the ability to focus game to game. This is short?
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Post by fumblerooski on Jan 29, 2016 11:36:35 GMT -8
I begrudgingly agree with a lot of this. I'm trying to remain positive and keep my orange colored glasses on but the lack of a consistent offense is troubling. I'm not talking about a consistent scorer but the actual offensive identity. It seems like we are resorting to a lot more 1 on 1 and dribble penetration (or at least attempted dribble penetration) than we had last year. Where are the back cuts, ball movement, strong screens, etc. I try to justify that some of it has to do with a 30 second shot clock this year and having less time to get into offensive sets. But I figured the coaches would make adjustments and we'd see some improvement by this point in the year.
I still think Tinkle was a good hire and believe he's going to get us to the dance. Doubtful that it happens this year. Unless they really turn it around or get hot in the conf tournament. But I'd like to see this team play more as a team on offense.
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Post by seastape on Jan 29, 2016 12:50:48 GMT -8
...but the lack of a consistent offense is troubling. I'm not talking about a consistent scorer but the actual offensive identity. It seems like we are resorting to a lot more 1 on 1 and dribble penetration (or at least attempted dribble penetration) than we had last year. Where are the back cuts, ball movement, strong screens, etc. I try to justify that some of it has to do with a 30 second shot clock this year and having less time to get into offensive sets. But I figured the coaches would make adjustments and we'd see some improvement by this point in the year. I seem to recall that when Tinkle was hired, he talked a lot about how the game was really about defense and he doesn't really concentrate on offense all that much. Could the inconsistency on offense that we see this year be the result?
Or is it that I have remembered incorrectly and Tinkle never made any kind of comment about being less concerned about offense?
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Post by gnawitall on Jan 29, 2016 13:56:18 GMT -8
...but the lack of a consistent offense is troubling. I'm not talking about a consistent scorer but the actual offensive identity. It seems like we are resorting to a lot more 1 on 1 and dribble penetration (or at least attempted dribble penetration) than we had last year. Where are the back cuts, ball movement, strong screens, etc. I try to justify that some of it has to do with a 30 second shot clock this year and having less time to get into offensive sets. But I figured the coaches would make adjustments and we'd see some improvement by this point in the year. I seem to recall that when Tinkle was hired, he talked a lot about how the game was really about defense and he doesn't really concentrate on offense all that much. Could the inconsistency on offense that we see this year be the result?
Or is it that I have remembered incorrectly and Tinkle never made any kind of comment about being less concerned about offense?
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Post by gnawitall on Jan 29, 2016 13:57:02 GMT -8
I seem to recall that when Tinkle was hired, he talked a lot about how the game was really about defense and he doesn't really concentrate on offense all that much. Could the inconsistency on offense that we see this year be the result?
Or is it that I have remembered incorrectly and Tinkle never made any kind of comment about being less concerned about offense?
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Post by gnawitall on Jan 29, 2016 14:00:14 GMT -8
I seem to recall that when Tinkle was hired, he talked a lot about how the game was really about defense and he doesn't really concentrate on offense all that much. Could the inconsistency on offense that we see this year be the result?
Or is it that I have remembered incorrectly and Tinkle never made any kind of comment about being less concerned about offense?
I remember him saying that. In addition, I remember Robinson yelling MOVE! at his offense and that's exactly what I was yelling until I quit watching due to major frustration.
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jbjam
Freshman
Posts: 127
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Post by jbjam on Jan 29, 2016 14:01:45 GMT -8
I think people are taking too much weight from individual games. Inexperienced players are just that inconsistent. It appears we expected a lot this year (I was one of those who believed in a great run.) The truth remains the real 'core' of this team was playing High School ball last year. There is a superstar in GP2 but he cannot do everything. The pieces outside of the youth are unfortunately unable to carry this team. Those returning guards shot 30-36% FG last season and the big men were below 40%. I like every other fan am disappointing so far this season, and I hope we see some jumps towards the end.
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Post by gnawitall on Jan 29, 2016 14:10:47 GMT -8
I think people are taking too much weight from individual games. Inexperienced players are just that inconsistent. It appears we expected a lot this year (I was one of those who believed in a great run.) The truth remains the real 'core' of this team was playing High School ball last year. There is a superstar in GP2 but he cannot do everything. The pieces outside of the youth are unfortunately unable to carry this team. Those returning guards shot 30-36% FG last season and the big men were below 40%. I like every other fan am disappointing so far this season, and I hope we see some jumps towards the end. I agree with what you are saying but there are some seemingly fundamental parts of the game that we don't do and for any of us trained in this game it's frustrating to watch.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 29, 2016 14:27:00 GMT -8
I think people are taking too much weight from individual games. Inexperienced players are just that inconsistent. It appears we expected a lot this year (I was one of those who believed in a great run.) The truth remains the real 'core' of this team was playing High School ball last year. There is a superstar in GP2 but he cannot do everything. The pieces outside of the youth are unfortunately unable to carry this team. Those returning guards shot 30-36% FG last season and the big men were below 40%. I like every other fan am disappointing so far this season, and I hope we see some jumps towards the end. I agree with what you are saying but there are some seemingly fundamental parts of the game that we don't do and for any of us trained in this game it's frustrating to watch. The issues I was personally mentioning are not game to game issues. I personally am not an "outcome" oriented person in terms of just W's and L's. Athletics in general have key components and many times outcomes are out of your control. But, "how" you play the game is always in your control. In baseball I would constantly remind hitters the form/function are key as you can do EVERYTHING right, just "piss" on a ball/can't hit it any better, BUT a kid makes the play of his life. It's an out... a negative outcome to most. A "victory" to me. I do not see us having "victories" in many key areas, nor do I see the improvement you'd expect by this time of a season.
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Post by beaverstever on Jan 29, 2016 14:38:45 GMT -8
Anybody that played and/or coached knows that getting a team to consistently perform at a high level is extremely difficult. There's not a single team in the conference this year that has mastered this.
GP II actually has pretty consistent game - yesterday was a pretty big outlier. He can definitely struggle at the line and from the field, but he usually is very consistent on rebounds, steals and assists (the last of which he was just fine). When he has struggled from the field, it's usually been a result of a very good rim defender that doesn't let him make high-percentage shots (but not this time).
However, GP II has had no help in this leadership role this year at all. The other seniors are wildly inconsistent, way more often underachieving then leading. As a result, the most consistent offensive players are Tres and Thompson behind GP II - one is only recently a starter, the other isn't a starter. Our leading scorers 2-4 are fosh, and erratic ones at that. I also think Tres and Thompson also are additionally handicapped as frosh to be leaders with dads as coaches (Tres as much admitted this earlier). It seems like the push by the talent of the incoming class has made most of the upperclassmen worse rather than better, I assume due to looking over their shoulders.
This inconsistency is hardly a surprise to me at all, and I don't think it is indicative of anything wrong other than what is very much in front of the scenes.
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Post by gzrbvr on Jan 29, 2016 15:28:08 GMT -8
To succeed in today's game, a team has to have some 3ball shooters. Who do we have? Shaft can make one every once in a while. Duvivier has made a couple. Payton is not really a 3ball threat in the true sense of the word. LMW can make one now and then. Thompson has some talent. Tinkle has his moments. Bruce can shoot, but he doesn't play much. (probably should play more IMO)
Match that up with Shaft is a decided negative on defense. No rebounding to talk about. Slow to cover the corner shot, slow to step in front down low.
LMW has had his minutes cut, but he appears to give a good effort when he is in there. He should probably play more. Bruce should probably play more. Plus, he is a pretty good three shooter. Gomis should not be playing much at all, at least until his hand heals.
So, go back to shortening the rotation, Payton, Duvivier, LMW, Bruce, Tinkle, Big G, Eubanks, some Shaft--what the hell, it can't get any worse. Go back to the defensive approach and rein in the offense to give it some purpose and extend the clock to help the fatigue factor. Continue the high screen offense, but get the idea across that passing out after the penetration gets stopped might be a good move.
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Post by vhalum92 on Feb 1, 2016 10:36:17 GMT -8
Is it possible that when Gomis and Reid went down with injuries, we never adjusted our expectations?
Gomis is back but still not playing like he was last year and Reid.... well you know the story.
I think most of us were excited to see how the Freshman could blend with the Seniors.... well guess what.... it didn't play out that way. I think this team is playing like young kids play and under performing... yes.
I agree Coach Tinkle should probably go back to a game plan like he had last year.
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Post by jdogge on Feb 1, 2016 11:19:04 GMT -8
Right??? Keeping this short... there is just too much disparity between how we play game to game. Even the coaching seems different... as if they expected this group to have more basic skills/fundamentals because they were here a year or big time recruits. As most on here praise GPII, and rightly so, and fear his departure I'm really not that concerned. He has probably been the most inconsistent player we've had considering what he is capable of and then see his extreme highs and lows. I'm greatly disappointed in his "leadership" in terms of consistency. It is the number one reason I think there is something amiss somewhere, as that just has not been GPII's calling card. Watching last years offense... excluding GPII being part of both teams, it does not change the fact in what I see on the floor is vastly different... how and where the offense is initiated, the screening/backdoor cuts, ball movement/reversal, v-cuts sharper off screens, etc. I will not even go into the defense as much, as it is truly a pathetic sight to see at times. Just the hustle in transition is terrible... Poor technique on hedging/recovering, redounding footwork/blocking out... on and on. My larger concern... is there stuff going on behind the scenes? Of all the stuff that goes on it just seems like the kids are not listening/tuning out, and NOT playing together. It seems like there might be a "division" on this team. Even the coaches seem to be at a loss sometimes. WT is always emotional, but looking at the other coaches they seem to be a little shocked at what they see on the court. I do not know what is going on, but I do know it has to be more than JUST youth, or the ability to focus game to game. It is all about youth. This is what I posted in another thread: "Olaf (RPG up from 3.3 to 3.5; PPG down from 7.8 to 6.5); Reid (RPG down from 2.7 to 2.2; PPG down from 8.3 to 4.2); Duvivier (RPB down from 3.0 to 2.4; PPG down from 10.7 to 6.7); Langston-Morris (RPG down from 4.6 to 3.0; PPG down from 9.3 to 6.1). Gomis similarly. You know what else is down for all of these? Minutes played per game. They are losing significant minutes to the Freshmen. It's not that the returnees are failing, it's that the kids are still learning." We'll be better in the long run for it. Note: All of the returnees except GPII have experienced decreased production.
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