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Post by jdogge on Nov 13, 2017 0:17:42 GMT -8
First, if Wisky's model was so easy more teams would be doing it. How many OL does anyone think want to walk on, bulk up on their own dime, to hopefully play someday. At Wisky it's been a tradition and fueled by accessibility to more talented OL than the state of Oregon produces in 5 years... or more. OSU needs to actually get scholly OL and DL that can play 3 deep before a walk on program is a worry. Google Kiffin and his twitter, snap chat habits with women... he can stay in Florida. Nothing against the kid personally, but, the LO kid is anything but a "hotshot QB". He's a good 6A player, not highly recruited until late, a project, and much better baseball player. By his sophomore year that's where his focus will be, much like Adley. We'll need a JC (or two... depending on Luton), the grad transfer, Willard to improve drastically, and Petras to stick with us Dukart has a PAC 12 arm. He throws the ball at least as well as Luton. He is a bit of a late bloomer but his throwing ability makes him more than just a nice 6A qb. Who knows if he will have a huge impact in baseball or even see the field. The fb option seems more wide open for him because of the beavs dont even have a true passing qb right now unless you think Luton is coming back. Luton is not coming back. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 13, 2017 0:28:55 GMT -8
First, if Wisky's model was so easy more teams would be doing it. How many OL does anyone think want to walk on, bulk up on their own dime, to hopefully play someday. At Wisky it's been a tradition and fueled by accessibility to more talented OL than the state of Oregon produces in 5 years... or more. OSU needs to actually get scholly OL and DL that can play 3 deep before a walk on program is a worry. Google Kiffin and his twitter, snap chat habits with women... he can stay in Florida. Nothing against the kid personally, but, the LO kid is anything but a "hotshot QB". He's a good 6A player, not highly recruited until late, a project, and much better baseball player. By his sophomore year that's where his focus will be, much like Adley. We'll need a JC (or two... depending on Luton), the grad transfer, Willard to improve drastically, and Petras to stick with us Dukart has a PAC 12 arm. He throws the ball at least as well as Luton. He is a bit of a late bloomer but his throwing ability makes him more than just a nice 6A qb. Who knows if he will have a huge impact in baseball or even see the field. The fb option seems more wide open for him because of the beavs dont even have a true passing qb right now unless you think Luton is coming back. As I mentioned, a project. Arm is good vs HS kids. His footwork and release are not Pac12 caliber... he is a project. Plus Jake is not the new HC's recruit... so if he had his own QB in mind there may not be an offer there? He's future is baseball anyway. In terms of "who knows what impact", what is known is he was a Pac12 recruit by other schools in baseball... not football. And... using Luton as a comparative measuring stick doesn't really help his cause. As arm strength is not what eventually matters, plus Luton had actually played D1 football. If the new coach brings in a JC or a transfer, plus the grad transfer shows, Luton returns, Willard stays, Petras signs... Jake is a 4th/5th/6th QB and a RS or walk on, and dividing his attention from baseball. That writing on the wall will eventually lead to baseball IMHO as in year two the new HC will recruit two more QBs. |
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Post by beavsaregood on Nov 13, 2017 1:37:06 GMT -8
Nice find, enjoyed reading that. Thanks. To this day our win over Wisconsin is one of my favorites because we beat them at their own game. We were the more physical team, played better defense, and ran the ball better than they did. To do that to Wisconsin was a tremendous feat and ties in with this thread. If somehow we could have recruited better o-line and built depth on the O-line, that game is a great example of what this program could have been throughout much of MR's time here. After Tavita Thompson was given the bs NCAA suspension and Jeremy Perry was lost to injury it seemed our O-line was never quite the same going forwards. What could have been with those two playing out their eligibility at full health, not only for the wins they would have helped earn, but for the depth and development of the players who were forced into action early to replace them. Wasn't Andy Levitre part of that unit along with Thompson and Perry? Levitre went to HS in the Santa Cruz hills? Ben Lomond? Or Scotts Valley? Forget. Oregon State and LSU were the only schools that offered as I recall. I'm not sure if he even had any stars coming out of HS. What a freakin' find! The good times. I miss them. I look forward to some more good times. |
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Post by beavsaregood on Nov 13, 2017 2:03:22 GMT -8
I was curious, so I checked up on that Levitre's class (2004). I could have sworn Levitre (from Felton) was only offered by LSU but I am wrong. The 2* was also offered from Oregon, Stanford, ASU, UW, and CAL. Really? I didn't know that. Well, then, Levitre was great get!
Tavita Thompson, Jeremy Perry, Adam Speer, and Andy Levitre. That's a killer class of linemen. And an impact JC OLB in Ellison. Hildebrand was a bust at QB though I thought he was one of those elite 11 QBs (I could be wrong).
I guess you get that all the time.
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Post by beavsaregood on Nov 13, 2017 2:04:44 GMT -8
can't get that all the time. good night!
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 13, 2017 8:37:21 GMT -8
Dukart has a PAC 12 arm. He throws the ball at least as well as Luton. He is a bit of a late bloomer but his throwing ability makes him more than just a nice 6A qb. Who knows if he will have a huge impact in baseball or even see the field. The fb option seems more wide open for him because of the beavs dont even have a true passing qb right now unless you think Luton is coming back. Luton is not coming back. You say that with such authority. He's back at practice and throwing again already. He's unlikely to play this season but I wouldn't write him off next season just yet. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Nov 13, 2017 8:42:19 GMT -8
Dukart has a PAC 12 arm. He throws the ball at least as well as Luton. He is a bit of a late bloomer but his throwing ability makes him more than just a nice 6A qb. Who knows if he will have a huge impact in baseball or even see the field. The fb option seems more wide open for him because of the beavs dont even have a true passing qb right now unless you think Luton is coming back. Luton is not coming back. Just curious if that's your gut feeling, or you have any better information to come to that conclusion. My son and I were talking about it yesterday, and I have read that he's back at practice, no contact obviously, but getting back to it and wants to play again. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 13, 2017 8:52:34 GMT -8
Would the Wisconsin "model" fit for the Oregon State Beaver football program?
Their program for years and years appears to be based on recruiting and coaching up the best possible linemen. Wisconsin (like OSU) is unlikely to obtain the quality and numbers of top rated receivers, quarterbacks, etc.
However by emphasizing blocking, tackling, aggressive defense and a punishing running game they have been able to have consistently good teams year after year.
Who would be a good head coach selection if OSU wanted to go down this path? How would OSU maintain this type of consistency when one head coach leaves and another arrives. This consistency seems to be a huge part of Wisconsin's success. Case in point, they were able to survive Madman Gary Andersen!
I look forward to hearing comments from the Beaver fans. Thank you! In my opinion, Riley was attempting to run "The Wisconsin" model... with mixed results. Clearly he was doing it pretty well in the early years. He had strong lines more times than not and ran a run first, play action passing pro offense. He always had 20 or so OL recruits in the pipe, and was big on developing kids for a couple year then putting out a good set of D-1 OL. Then over the last few years it got shakey. There was a couple really bad recruiting cycles where we flat missed on the OL. everybody we brought in, washed out. Couple that with a shift in offensive philosophy, to a pass first shotgun spread pro passing attack, and the skill needs at OL changed. We couldn't get a running push on the line any longer, but we generally could pass protect pretty well. Could we get back there? sure. It will take a few years. Do we have that patience? Not to be a broken record, but Andersen was SO bad, he fundamentally changed the landscape of OSU. We are sitting on the edge of a cliff thanks to that con man. We either fall off of it to become the next Kansas, or we recover and get back to a 7-8 win standard. When Riley left, OSU was not a 3-4 year rebuild. Not in a million years. Now... thanks to Andersen, we ARE a 3-4 year rebuild. So there is no time like the present. I hope the new guy's first class has like, 10 OL in it. (hyperbole). |
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 13, 2017 8:56:36 GMT -8
To me the most anxiety producing part of this whole situation, is my perception (hope I am dead wrong)that our talent level is really, really bad (i.e. Avezanno, Fertig, Pettibone,) If so, no matter who the new coach is, it will likely be at least 3 years and maybe 4 or 5 before we even know if he will be successful or not. Look at Coach Andersen's history at OSU. At the end of two years there were no super evident clues that he would be a total failure. The evidence was there in the spring game of 2015. That evidence was running off every halfway competent QB we had, and grabbing a true freshman with no other D-1 offers at QB to be the guy and installing a terrible offense that mimicked about 9 of the other 11 teams in the Pac-12, but being worse at it. He brought nothing new, nothing creative and everything he did was worse than what other people were already doing. There were a pile of red flags a mile high very, very early in his tenure. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 13, 2017 9:05:20 GMT -8
To me the most anxiety producing part of this whole situation, is my perception (hope I am dead wrong)that our talent level is really, really bad (i.e. Avezanno, Fertig, Pettibone,) If so, no matter who the new coach is, it will likely be at least 3 years and maybe 4 or 5 before we even know if he will be successful or not. Look at Coach Andersen's history at OSU. At the end of two years there were no super evident clues that he would be a total failure. The evidence was there in the spring game of 2015. That evidence was running off every halfway competent QB we had, and grabbing a true freshman with no other D-1 offers at QB to be the guy and installing a terrible offense that mimicked about 9 of the other 11 teams in the Pac-12, but being worse at it. He brought nothing new, nothing creative and everything he did was worse than what other people were already doing. There were a pile of red flags a mile high very, very early in his tenure. And... during the non-existent hiring process. His Wisky tenure was littered with red flags coupled with the fact he wanted to leave Wisky for a lesser achieving OSU program. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 13, 2017 12:12:53 GMT -8
Great article in SI's latest issue on how Alvarez built Wisconsin Football through "mining" recruits within WI. From day 1, he made sure Michigan and Michigan State won't poach in-state recruits. He made it a priority to keep recruits in state. He also instituted the walk-on program that produced many great players. I think the next Oregon State HC should strengthen the walk-on program and definitely recruit in-state recruits. As said earlier by another poster, Oregon State will be competing with Oregon for the in-state recruits. That's definitely a difference versus Wisky, as they are the only P5 program within Wisconsin. Also, WI has more recruits v. OR. I think the next coach at Oregon State has to recruit HARD in California. They need to make it a priority. It's a huge recruiting state in Oregon State's region. Of course recruit the home state, HI, and the western region, but, CA needs to be a priority. OLs and DLs are a priority position to recruit as it takes time to develop physically and mentally. I also hope new Oregon State leader focuses on speed in regards to their recruits. So, that template from WI is great. I just think Oregon State's will be different in regards to recruiting. I hope the next HC will recruit CA and the western region for some speed. Oregon State needs to get all of the talent it can in Oregon and lock down Hawai'i and the Pacific. The team with the most Hawaiians on the roster outside of Hawai'i is Oregon State. That must continue. Honestly, I basically like what Andersen was doing, recruiting-wise. He recruited California, Hawai'i, and Texas hard and was also starting to pull recruits from the Southeast, as well. I think that the next staff should take a good hard look and consider retaining Cory Hall in some capacity, as well as Chad Kauha'aha'a and Telly Lockette. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 13, 2017 12:14:20 GMT -8
In other words, we should do exactly what Stanford does? Recruit 4-5 star O-linemen and commit to running the ball. Wisconsin has an abundance if huge underrated O-linemen in state. We don't. Stanford has always been able to attract 4-5 star talent from all over the country. We haven't. Other than that I like your plan, now just figure out how to get them here and you'll be on to something. Well, Stanford is among the top ten universities in the world and we're ... not. 3rd (Stanford) and 239th (Oregon State) are comparable, right? |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 13, 2017 12:53:31 GMT -8
The evidence was there in the spring game of 2015. That evidence was running off every halfway competent QB we had, and grabbing a true freshman with no other D-1 offers at QB to be the guy and installing a terrible offense that mimicked about 9 of the other 11 teams in the Pac-12, but being worse at it. He brought nothing new, nothing creative and everything he did was worse than what other people were already doing. There were a pile of red flags a mile high very, very early in his tenure. And... during the non-existent hiring process. His Wisky tenure was littered with red flags coupled with the fact he wanted to leave Wisky for a lesser achieving OSU program. It's all spin. Riley wanted out, because BDC was getting in his way, and he thought he knew better. GA wanted out, because Alvarez was getting in his way, and he thought he knew better. I personally think that Riley was right, but he went to the wrong school. In the end, Alvarez proves that he is just as good an AD as he was a HC. He got rid of Andersen, who was a pain in his a$$; he got Oregon State to pay Andersen's buyout; and he upgraded by hiring Chryst, who should have been hired by Oregon State. Nebraska is cleaning house. Oregon State is sitting at 1-9 with a 18-game road losing streak. The last time the Beavers had an 18-game road losing streak? 1994-1998. Oregon State finishes the season in Eugene. The last time the Beavers suffered through a road losing streak in excess of 18 games? 1979-1982, when Oregon State lost 21 straight, 22 straight outside of Corvallis (Mirage Bowl). The last time the Beavers had a winless road streak of more than 18 games? 1979-1983. Oregon State went a woeful 0-24-1, 0-25-1 outside of Corvallis. |
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Post by jdogge on Nov 13, 2017 13:53:22 GMT -8
Luton is not coming back. You say that with such authority. He's back at practice and throwing again already. He's unlikely to play this season but I wouldn't write him off next season just yet. I doubt very much the university insurance company will clear putting him at risk of permanent paralysis. |
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Post by jdogge on Nov 13, 2017 14:07:05 GMT -8
Luton is not coming back. Just curious if that's your gut feeling, or you have any better information to come to that conclusion. My son and I were talking about it yesterday, and I have read that he's back at practice, no contact obviously, but getting back to it and wants to play again. It's based on my experience working with people with spinal cord injuries. He broke his back. One bad hit in that location, he's a paraplegic. |
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