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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 12, 2017 12:49:30 GMT -8
In other words, we should do exactly what Stanford does? Recruit 4-5 star O-linemen and commit to running the ball. Wisconsin has an abundance if huge underrated O-linemen in state. We don't. Stanford has always been able to attract 4-5 star talent from all over the country. We haven't. Other than that I like your plan, now just figure out how to get them here and you'll be on to something.
A friend of mine grew up in Wiskonsin, he's a normal looking guy. Said when he was in HS he weighed 300 lbs, which was fairly normal for that area.
In Wisconin and Kansas, all the kids grow up milking cows, wrangling cows, rustling cows.... cows just aren't that big of a deal here. That's my theory and I'm sticking with it. June Jones could get a pretty good pipeline of big bodies coming to OSU in no time.... did you know US cowboys originated in Hawaii? 1847 Parker Ranch began and they brought in vaqueros from Argentina or thereabouts, who taught the locals everything about cowmanship. From there cowboys spread into Texas and the mid-west (yep, Hawaii cowboys, and ranching, pre-date mainland cowboys and ranching).
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 12, 2017 12:58:24 GMT -8
I do like what Alvarez had to say about the walkon program... "it makes up for recruiting mistakes". OSU ought to be targeting about 8-10 walkon linemen a year, if 1-3 of them pan out it would really help.
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Post by skyrider on Nov 12, 2017 13:36:08 GMT -8
To me the most anxiety producing part of this whole situation, is my perception (hope I am dead wrong)that our talent level is really, really bad (i.e. Avezanno, Fertig, Pettibone,)
If so, no matter who the new coach is, it will likely be at least 3 years and maybe 4 or 5 before we even know if he will be successful or not. Look at Coach Andersen's history at OSU. At the end of two years there were no super evident clues that he would be a total failure.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Nov 12, 2017 14:06:35 GMT -8
I do like what Alvarez had to say about the walkon program... "it makes up for recruiting mistakes". OSU ought to be targeting about 8-10 walkon linemen a year, if 1-3 of them pan out it would really help. it's just not that simple. Oregon is not a hotbed for football talent. Nor is it a hotbed for 300 lb farmboys who might blossom into athletes. There are a million more people in Wisconsin, and they not only are the only major school in their own state, they can recruit in Minnesota (1 Big 10 school), Ohio (1 Big 10 school) Illinois (2 Big 10 schools) Michigan (2 Big 10 schools) and Pennsylvania (1 Big 10 School), etc. Of course we have California, but you know who else recruits California hard? Every major program in the country!
There is not a "model" that works for OSU other than find the best coach, who can hire the best staff, who can recruit the best players. There is no offensive system, there is no defense, there is no magic pill.
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Post by beaver55to7 on Nov 12, 2017 14:07:45 GMT -8
Look at Coach Andersen's history at OSU. At the end of two years there were no super evident clues that he would be a total failure. I disagree with the idea that there 'were no super evident clues he would be a total failure.' There were Tons of clues he would be a failure in 2015. Posters were shouting from the rooftops that things were not right. After the end of the 2016 season when CGA said he was changing to a pass offense there were numerous posts of despair. Most of the decisions that CGA made during his 2 1/4 years were clues he would be a total failure, and if you listened real closely to what Barry Alvarez said in 2014, your 'oh s%#t' antenna should have been activated even then.
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Post by nforkbeav on Nov 12, 2017 22:40:33 GMT -8
Nice find, enjoyed reading that. Thanks. To this day our win over Wisconsin is one of my favorites because we beat them at their own game. We were the more physical team, played better defense, and ran the ball better than they did. To do that to Wisconsin was a tremendous feat and ties in with this thread. If somehow we could have recruited better o-line and built depth on the O-line, that game is a great example of what this program could have been throughout much of MR's time here. After Tavita Thompson was given the bs NCAA suspension and Jeremy Perry was lost to injury it seemed our O-line was never quite the same going forwards. What could have been with those two playing out their eligibility at full health, not only for the wins they would have helped earn, but for the depth and development of the players who were forced into action early to replace them.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 12, 2017 22:41:24 GMT -8
Look at Coach Andersen's history at OSU. At the end of two years there were no super evident clues that he would be a total failure. Clue: McMaryion started third on the depth chart in 2015 and 2016. McMaryion only started because two inferior choices in 2016 were injured. Clue: Nall was converted into a TE/H-Back before injuries forced GA to convert Nall into a RB again. Nall was fifth on the depth chart to start the 2015 season. No clues at all. Never. Not one. I remember ATown and I being very concerned that the switching to the 3-4 was a bad idea. I remember the both of us saying that the talent just was never going to be there to run the defense. I remember getting into debates with people thinking that the 2015 Civil War was a sign of bigger and better things. (The offense was in shambles, but it was masked by a terrible Oregon defense.) I remember people saying that the ending of 2016 was great, a sign of better things to come. I remember me saying that the run defense was actually worse in 2016 than it was in 2015 and that the parts that made the pass defense work were graduating. I remember people saying that anyone thought that Oregon State was going to win fewer than six games weren't really fans. There were a lot of clues. Some people just chose to ignore them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 22:56:21 GMT -8
Would the Wisconsin "model" fit for the Oregon State Beaver football program?
Their program for years and years appears to be based on recruiting and coaching up the best possible linemen. Wisconsin (like OSU) is unlikely to obtain the quality and numbers of top rated receivers, quarterbacks, etc.
However by emphasizing blocking, tackling, aggressive defense and a punishing running game they have been able to have consistently good teams year after year.
Who would be a good head coach selection if OSU wanted to go down this path? How would OSU maintain this type of consistency when one head coach leaves and another arrives. This consistency seems to be a huge part of Wisconsin's success. Case in point, they were able to survive Madman Gary Andersen!
I look forward to hearing comments from the Beaver fans. Thank you! no. Lane Kiffin is the model. Lightning strike offense. Throw the ball well enough to score points and get O recruits and at least appear dangerous. Wisconsin has proximity to midwest olinemen recruiting hotbeds. O state will easier time getting hotshlt qbs ( Dukart) for example than linemen. At least in the short term. Need a guerrilla attack to get some wins. Have to stop the incessant losing as soon as possible. The longer the p12 winless streak goes on, the deeper the grave becomes. Yes beavs need a bandaid quick fix. Lane Kiffin should be the target or somebody like him. Of course this approach has many drawbacks but the long term rebuild option was already squanderered by the guy from, oh yeah, Wisconsin.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 12, 2017 23:01:59 GMT -8
For me the biggest clues were the year one QB rotation along with the running back rotation. It just didn't make sense, and sounded like excuses were being made. It was all so strange. Year two wasn't much better. Then they started talking about incorporating aspects of the air raid offense at the end of season two and it started looking like they really didn't have a cohesive plan from the beginning. "Trust the process!" should have been "What's the Process?"
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 12, 2017 23:18:34 GMT -8
Would the Wisconsin "model" fit for the Oregon State Beaver football program?
Their program for years and years appears to be based on recruiting and coaching up the best possible linemen. Wisconsin (like OSU) is unlikely to obtain the quality and numbers of top rated receivers, quarterbacks, etc.
However by emphasizing blocking, tackling, aggressive defense and a punishing running game they have been able to have consistently good teams year after year.
Who would be a good head coach selection if OSU wanted to go down this path? How would OSU maintain this type of consistency when one head coach leaves and another arrives. This consistency seems to be a huge part of Wisconsin's success. Case in point, they were able to survive Madman Gary Andersen!
I look forward to hearing comments from the Beaver fans. Thank you! no. Lane Kiffin is the model. Lightning strike offense. Throw the ball well enough to score points and get O recruits and at least appear dangerous. Wisconsin has proximity to midwest olinemen recruiting hotbeds. O state will easier time getting hotshlt qbs ( Dukart) for example than linemen. At least in the short term. Need a guerrilla attack to get some wins. Have to stop the incessant losing as soon as possible. The longer the p12 winless streak goes on, the deeper the grave becomes. Yes beavs need a bandaid quick fix. Lane Kiffin should be the target or somebody like him. Of course this approach has many drawbacks but the long term rebuild option was already squanderered by the guy from, oh yeah, Wisconsin. First, if Wisky's model was so easy more teams would be doing it. How many OL does anyone think want to walk on, bulk up on their own dime, to hopefully play someday. At Wisky it's been a tradition and fueled by accessibility to more talented OL than the state of Oregon produces in 5 years... or more. OSU needs to actually get scholly OL and DL that can play 3 deep before a walk on program is a worry. Google Kiffin and his twitter, snap chat habits with women... he can stay in Florida. Nothing against the kid personally, but, the LO kid is anything but a "hotshot QB". He's a good 6A player, not highly recruited until late, a project, and much better baseball player. By his sophomore year that's where his focus will be, much like Adley. We'll need a JC (or two... depending on Luton), the grad transfer, Willard to improve drastically, and Petras to stick with us
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Post by nforkbeav on Nov 12, 2017 23:32:22 GMT -8
For me the biggest clues were the year one QB rotation along with the running back rotation. It just didn't make sense, and sounded like excuses were being made. It was all so strange. Year two wasn't much better. Then they started talking about incorporating aspects of the air raid offense at the end of season two and it started looking like they really didn't have a cohesive plan from the beginning. "Trust the process!" should have been "What's the Process?" In hindsight maybe some things makes sense. He had a heck of a QB athlete at Ute St who brought him a lot of wins vs MWC level competition. He then went to the Big10 where the style of play might have led him to believe with a similar athlete at QB and style of offense at Wisky he'd dominate. Unfortunately for us, and fortunately for Wisky that experiment was never going to be allowed So he comes here looking to prove a point.(What worked at Utah State will work here). He goes out and finds a great athletic talent in Seth Collins, salivates at all the wins he's going to produce, and then the cold hard reality of P12 speed and athleticism slapped him in the face and shook his entire notion of how things were going to play out. One great athlete in the MWC might be a game changer, but not in a P5 conference unless he's got a lot of supporting cast members and a sound system to work from. It became quickly clear to him, the nucleus of his entire vision for the success of the program had a big hole in it. From that realization forwards he grasped at offensive straws, trying to find something that would work. The byproduct of that ongoing search and constant "evolution" of our offense was a team who wasn't learning any core offensive system, perfecting nothing offensively, or building any offensive identity and continuity. It was a double whammy. No schematically advantageous offense suited to our players talents as well as no long term plan for development in "the" offense since there wasn't "one" that ever truly existed.
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Post by beavsaregood on Nov 12, 2017 23:34:42 GMT -8
Great article in SI's latest issue on how Alvarez built Wisconsin Football through "mining" recruits within WI. From day 1, he made sure Michigan and Michigan State won't poach in-state recruits. He made it a priority to keep recruits in state. He also instituted the walk-on program that produced many great players. I think the next Oregon State HC should strengthen the walk-on program and definitely recruit in-state recruits. As said earlier by another poster, Oregon State will be competing with Oregon for the in-state recruits. That's definitely a difference versus Wisky, as they are the only P5 program within Wisconsin. Also, WI has more recruits v. OR. I think the next coach at Oregon State has to recruit HARD in California. They need to make it a priority. It's a huge recruiting state in Oregon State's region. Of course recruit the home state, HI, and the western region, but, CA needs to be a priority. OLs and DLs are a priority position to recruit as it takes time to develop physically and mentally. I also hope new Oregon State leader focuses on speed in regards to their recruits. So, that template from WI is great. I just think Oregon State's will be different in regards to recruiting. I hope the next HC will recruit CA and the western region for some speed.
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Post by beavsaregood on Nov 12, 2017 23:44:28 GMT -8
For me the biggest clues were the year one QB rotation along with the running back rotation. It just didn't make sense, and sounded like excuses were being made. It was all so strange. Year two wasn't much better. Then they started talking about incorporating aspects of the air raid offense at the end of season two and it started looking like they really didn't have a cohesive plan from the beginning. "Trust the process!" should have been "What's the Process?" In hindsight maybe some things makes sense. He had a heck of a QB athlete at Ute St who brought him a lot of wins vs MWC level competition. He then went to the Big10 where the style of play might have led him to believe with a similar athlete at QB and style of offense at Wisky he'd dominate. Unfortunately for us, and fortunately for Wisky that experiment was never going to be allowed So he comes here looking to prove a point.(What worked at Utah State will work here). He goes out and finds a great athletic talent in Seth Collins, salivates at all the wins he's going to produce, and then the cold hard reality of P12 speed and athleticism slapped him in the face and shook his entire notion of how things were going to play out. One great athlete in the MWC might be a game changer, but not in a P5 conference unless he's got a lot of supporting cast members and a sound system to work from. It became quickly clear to him, the nucleus of his entire vision for the success of the program had a big hole in it. From that realization forwards he grasped at offensive straws, trying to find something that would work. The byproduct of that ongoing search and constant "evolution" of our offense was a team who wasn't learning any core offensive system, perfecting nothing offensively, or building any offensive identity and continuity. It was a double whammy. No schematically advantageous offense suited to our players talents as well as no long term plan for development in "the" offense since there wasn't "one" that ever truly existed. This means he's not a good coach and his staff sucks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 0:04:18 GMT -8
no. Lane Kiffin is the model. Lightning strike offense. Throw the ball well enough to score points and get O recruits and at least appear dangerous. Wisconsin has proximity to midwest olinemen recruiting hotbeds. O state will easier time getting hotshlt qbs ( Dukart) for example than linemen. At least in the short term. Need a guerrilla attack to get some wins. Have to stop the incessant losing as soon as possible. The longer the p12 winless streak goes on, the deeper the grave becomes. Yes beavs need a bandaid quick fix. Lane Kiffin should be the target or somebody like him. Of course this approach has many drawbacks but the long term rebuild option was already squanderered by the guy from, oh yeah, Wisconsin. First, if Wisky's model was so easy more teams would be doing it. How many OL does anyone think want to walk on, bulk up on their own dime, to hopefully play someday. At Wisky it's been a tradition and fueled by accessibility to more talented OL than the state of Oregon produces in 5 years... or more. OSU needs to actually get scholly OL and DL that can play 3 deep before a walk on program is a worry. Google Kiffin and his twitter, snap chat habits with women... he can stay in Florida. Nothing against the kid personally, but, the LO kid is anything but a "hotshot QB". He's a good 6A player, not highly recruited until late, a project, and much better baseball player. By his sophomore year that's where his focus will be, much like Adley. We'll need a JC (or two... depending on Luton), the grad transfer, Willard to improve drastically, and Petras to stick with us Dukart has a PAC 12 arm. He throws the ball at least as well as Luton. He is a bit of a late bloomer but his throwing ability makes him more than just a nice 6A qb. Who knows if he will have a huge impact in baseball or even see the field. The fb option seems more wide open for him because of the beavs dont even have a true passing qb right now unless you think Luton is coming back.
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Post by jdogge on Nov 13, 2017 0:07:31 GMT -8
Would the Wisconsin "model" fit for the Oregon State Beaver football program?
Their program for years and years appears to be based on recruiting and coaching up the best possible linemen. Wisconsin (like OSU) is unlikely to obtain the quality and numbers of top rated receivers, quarterbacks, etc.
However by emphasizing blocking, tackling, aggressive defense and a punishing running game they have been able to have consistently good teams year after year.
Who would be a good head coach selection if OSU wanted to go down this path? How would OSU maintain this type of consistency when one head coach leaves and another arrives. This consistency seems to be a huge part of Wisconsin's success. Case in point, they were able to survive Madman Gary Andersen!
I look forward to hearing comments from the Beaver fans. Thank you! In other words, we should do exactly what Stanford does? Recruit 4-5 star O-linemen and commit to running the ball. Wisconsin has an abundance if huge underrated O-linemen in state. We don't. Stanford has always been able to attract 4-5 star talent from all over the country. We haven't. Other than that I like your plan, now just figure out how to get them here and you'll be on to something. Well, Stanford is among the top ten universities in the world and we're ... not.
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