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Post by jimbeav on Sept 13, 2017 10:48:40 GMT -8
It is worth noting that the ONE coach he brought on with a wealth of experience was Dave Baldwin. Coaching since 1978, some 15ish years OC experience. He was busted down to WR coach after 2015, in a year where there was reported infighting among he and other coaches. I think now with some more experience under our belt, one has to wonder is Dave Baldwin was insubordinate to CGA's moronic ideas, and that was the source of the fighting among coaches. I dunno, but it is interesting. I view that drama with a slightly different lens now. Every other coach on this team has accomplished exactly jack and squat... and the amount of success at both the D-1 level and the pac-12 is even more lacking... I have had a similar line of thinking. It's clear who won and who lost among the coach infighting that happened in 2015, and now that we have a couple years of results under our belts, I think it's pretty clear the wrong folks won. If all of our wildest dreams were to come true and Andersen was fired mid-season, I wonder if it wouldn't be best to put Baldwin in charge the rest of the year as the interim head coach...
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Post by Tigardbeav on Sept 13, 2017 10:54:56 GMT -8
Just wondering, could St. Dennis straighten out this mess in the interim? Or would he even want to try? Go Beavs!! He's 70. You'll have to track him down on the back 9 to get your answer. Try the shortcut at the 19th hole
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 13, 2017 11:24:48 GMT -8
It is worth noting that the ONE coach he brought on with a wealth of experience was Dave Baldwin. Coaching since 1978, some 15ish years OC experience. He was busted down to WR coach after 2015, in a year where there was reported infighting among he and other coaches. I think now with some more experience under our belt, one has to wonder is Dave Baldwin was insubordinate to CGA's moronic ideas, and that was the source of the fighting among coaches. I dunno, but it is interesting. I view that drama with a slightly different lens now. Every other coach on this team has accomplished exactly jack and squat... and the amount of success at both the D-1 level and the pac-12 is even more lacking... I have had a similar line of thinking. It's clear who won and who lost among the coach infighting that happened in 2015, and now that we have a couple years of results under our belts, I think it's pretty clear the wrong folks won. If all of our wildest dreams were to come true and Andersen was fired mid-season, I wonder if it wouldn't be best to put Baldwin in charge the rest of the year as the interim head coach... IF the infighting was largely over style of offensive play, Baldwin would be the clear choice of current staff members to be interim coach. He also has 4 years of head coaching at SJSU as well more years at other smaller schools. He actually had 3 straight wins over Stanford at SJSU. I assume he would jump at the chance to be interim coach and a chance to revive his career, coming here looks like a mistake (outside of the financial end) thus far.
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Post by snohobeav on Sept 13, 2017 11:29:56 GMT -8
It is kind of a broken record at this point. But we are in the worse of catch 22's. Can't afford to fire him, can't really afford to not fire him. The longer we keep him, the more fans leave, the less revenue we have, the lower interest we have, the crappier recruits we get, etc. We fire him, we are on the hook for a large portion of his remaining contract. any offsets he has will be minimal, as he would likely need to DC for a few years to rehab his image. As Mike84 pointed out in another thread, the fans are in a catch22 as well. We are upset and want our voices heard. we do not want to support this train wreck... but if we pull our support it just makes it that much harder to turn this ship around. it puts us under that much more hardship. We are damned if we do, damned if we don't right now. Fire him and be screwed. Don't fire him and be screwed. Support the program and nothing changes, Don't support the program and it hurts improvement. In my opinion, the only thing in our (fans) control is whether or not we decide to support the team from a financial standpoint. I, for one, will continue to contribute. I'm doing it for the players and for the program, certainly not for GA. Continuing to support financially is the only answer. To do otherwise will lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy. Donations diminish, can't keep facilities and coaching on par with the competition, fall behind, repeat.
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Post by orangeattack on Sept 13, 2017 11:43:37 GMT -8
Sonny Dykes is looking for a job - if not HC an OC position. I would take Sonny Dykes running our offense in a heartbeat over this mess. I would love nothing more for us to be a power running offense, but I have doubts that we could get the horses needed up front.
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Post by ee1990 on Sept 13, 2017 13:00:52 GMT -8
.....he would (and should) be gone by mid-season. But this is OSU and we don't have Nike $$$ to bail us out of mistakes like the CGA hire. Thus, as others have pointed out, we are almost surely stuck with a FB team which is likely to get even worse for this year and at least the 2018 season as well. Unfortunately, we might as well begin to at least try to deal with that reality. Oregon led the conference in individual $1000 donations for something like 10 years in a row the last time I saw the numbers(public schools only). Where's that support from Beaver fans?
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Post by seastape on Sept 13, 2017 14:48:53 GMT -8
It is worth noting that the ONE coach he brought on with a wealth of experience was Dave Baldwin. Coaching since 1978, some 15ish years OC experience. He was busted down to WR coach after 2015, in a year where there was reported infighting among he and other coaches. I think now with some more experience under our belt, one has to wonder is Dave Baldwin was insubordinate to CGA's moronic ideas, and that was the source of the fighting among coaches. I dunno, but it is interesting. I view that drama with a slightly different lens now. Every other coach on this team has accomplished exactly jack and squat... and the amount of success at both the D-1 level and the pac-12 is even more lacking... I have had a similar line of thinking. It's clear who won and who lost among the coach infighting that happened in 2015, and now that we have a couple years of results under our belts, I think it's pretty clear the wrong folks won. If all of our wildest dreams were to come true and Andersen was fired mid-season, I wonder if it wouldn't be best to put Baldwin in charge the rest of the year as the interim head coach... He is definitely the coach that I have had the most trouble figuring out...how did he go from a coach whose offense at Colorado State basically destroyed the cities in which it rolled through to the broken down clunker his first year at OSU? HIs quick demotion after a year at OSU is bizarre to me...I would have no problem believing that "my way or the highway" Andersen busted Baldwin down a few pegs if he wasn't saying the right things in 2015.
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Post by baseba1111 on Sept 13, 2017 15:19:28 GMT -8
Atown. Totally correct. Dave Baldwin has that experience. I find it strange that he was replaced basically by McGiven? Huh? Don't get that one.....other than McGiven is probably a CGA BB(bitch boy). There are more issues with Baldwin than just not agreeing with GAG. But, it was the main reason. He was to have TOTAL control of the offense and major input on the depth chart and recruiting key offensive positions. Neither happened. I will tell you, again 2nd hand, Baldwin was a HUGE Nall and 3M from day 1. He also grew a very tight relationship with Villamin and some other WRs. His ship sailed when GAG stepped in and made decisions about QB, RB, and recruiting/bringing in other QBs. The Blount move in the Utah game was supposedly an 'eff you' in the "I know who should QB my team". Funny thing is Baldwin was eventually proven correct with both Nall and 3M (and how GAG handled some other players diminished their desire/production) and is/was a great source of embarrassment to GAG. Baldwin has almost zero input since early in 2016 except to mentor certain frustrated players. The belief of some staffers is that Baldwin has single handed kept several other players in OSU uniforms. The guy knows offense and he knows the type of player he needs to run his offense. He is also very flexible within his system and a very good play caller when he is in complete control. He is also well liked by many of the other coaches and seen as a go to mentor by some of the younger guys. He was GAG's biggest* early mistake... and it's been downhill from there. He'd be a fantastic interim coach for 8 games and has connections to build a staff. He might even be a inexpensive replacement to recoup a buyout for a 2-3 years (give him $900k on a revolving 1 year deal with options to renew on both ends) if he did a great job in the interim. Dreaming, but could it really get any worse??? *excluding we've had no DC of any kind from day 1!!!
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Post by jimbeav on Sept 13, 2017 15:41:32 GMT -8
I want to believe everything you say about Andersen and Baldwin, 1111, but it all sounds too perfect to those of us who have been so frustrated by this staff and this program for the last 3 years. What would motivate Andersen to shoot himself in the face like that? And if it's that bad, why is Baldwin even still here?
This whole mess is straight out of bizarro-world. I swear, sometimes it feels like our program is cursed...
(Oh, and can you fill me in what your 'GAG' stands for?)
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Post by baseba1111 on Sept 13, 2017 15:47:28 GMT -8
I want to believe everything you say about Andersen and Baldwin, 1111, but it all sounds too perfect to those of us who have been so frustrated by this staff and this program for the last 3 years. What would motivate Andersen to shoot himself in the face like that? And if it's that bad, why is Baldwin even still here? This whole mess is straight out of bizarro-world. I swear, sometimes it feels like our program is cursed... (Oh, and can you fill me in what your 'GAG' stands for?) I'm not sure I believe all I hear from some, but if you hear something similar enough times it resonates. You and I really don't have to believe anything about GAG or his staff, the results and general disorganization of it all speaks that something is truly amiss. As for Baldwin, maybe he is here to collect a paycheck? Albeit a much smaller one. However, I think he loves the players here, and loves the game of football. Plus there is not many good jobs out there for someone his age who is seen as insubordinate. Why did GAG not rid himself of Baldwin completely? My guess is to save public face. He brought in his "band of brothers" and so far nary a one has done jack squat. And, in some cases it because of his mismanagement. And, to be honest... remember it is 2nd hand, but from several sources with differing interpretations. But, (2) have been in the athletic or ticket departments for many moons. They know their way around those hallways. GAG = "Gawd Awful Gary"... someone's else's acronym I just chose to use it instead of GA or CGA
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Post by beavdowg on Sept 13, 2017 15:52:26 GMT -8
baseball, what do you mean by Baldwin being viewed as an insubordinate? Do you mean in the eyes of GAG or in the eyes of the general coaching community?
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Post by baseba1111 on Sept 13, 2017 15:56:09 GMT -8
baseball, what do you mean by Baldwin being viewed as an insubordinate? He did not agree with MANY decisions being made, especially concerning the offense and players. He basically was honest in his assessment of what the offense should be and what players should be playing. He lost... he was made to run (for a short while) his offense on a limited basis the way someone else wanted it run with players someone else chose. Most OCs don't operate that way. To put in simply, GAG has never 'stayed away' from the offense. As far as the "community" I am sure varied stories get out... but, my guess in different circles Baldwin is held in higher regard than GAG and visa versa.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 13, 2017 15:56:45 GMT -8
I want to believe everything you say about Andersen and Baldwin, 1111, but it all sounds too perfect to those of us who have been so frustrated by this staff and this program for the last 3 years. What would motivate Andersen to shoot himself in the face like that? And if it's that bad, why is Baldwin even still here? This whole mess is straight out of bizarro-world. I swear, sometimes it feels like our program is cursed... (Oh, and can you fill me in what your 'GAG' stands for?) I hate to say it but I believe it's probably at least somewhat true. The Blount thing rings true, he wasn't even getting in much practice time and wasn't on the depth chart, then GA made the decision to put him in, even said so after the game. I've never really believed any conjecture about past coaches and "losing the team" and personality clashes (other than Fertig's pissing match with Steve Smith, another case where the best QB on the team sat) but this time there are so many "coincidences" I'm inclined to believe a bunch of the rumors are at least partially based in truth. If what baseba111 says does happen to be true there would still be people in the department who know it. Maybe the best thing to do in that case is reassign GA and Costanza him to an empty basement office.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 13, 2017 16:06:02 GMT -8
baseball, what do you mean by Baldwin being viewed as an insubordinate? Do you mean in the eyes of GAG or in the eyes of the general coaching community? Here's the deal, it's easy to get stigmatized in that business. Seems to me there was a recent story about a player getting caught up in a controversy that got a big name coach fired, the kid graduated (even got a masters I think) and had a very tough time getting a job because he was the guy that got a popular coach fired. I wish I could recall that story, there was a recent "20 years later" type of update about it. Players and coaches who buck the chain of command, even if it is honorable to do so in that case, can have that follow them around for some time.
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Post by jimbeav on Sept 13, 2017 16:16:07 GMT -8
To put in simply, GAG has never 'stayed away' from the offense. From past comments, it also sounds like another problem is not just that he meddles in the offense, but that he meddles in the WORST possible way. He has admitted in past interviews how some of the technical stuff the offensive guys are saying when he walks in the room is like greek and way above his head (which...oh man, don't even get me started on that coming out of the mouth of a head coach in THIS conference). Which tells me that he isn't involved in any deep way in offensive planning or strategizing, but instead is acting like those sh!tty managers we've all had who will override our analysis from the trenches. I can just see Andersen reviewing a gameplan after all the coaches stayed up all night over the weekend reviewing game film, and him saying, "why is HE starting? No, no, this guy will do much better against this defense." It's like we have the pointy-haired boss as our coach. Maybe that will be my acronym...PHC (Pointy-Haired Coach).
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