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Post by baseba1111 on Jun 7, 2017 22:07:08 GMT -8
Good discussion. Rather than copy hugely long past paragraphs, I'll just state upfront that my comment focuses on the part about money not being the deal for every young man "several of whom we have on our roster". Our middle infield is ONE of the best in OSU BB history. Both guys coulda gone with the $$ out of HS (particularly Grenier). We're blessed as a fan base that they didn't. And who knows, their decision may pan out as the best of both worlds in about 53 weeks. In the meantime, they each get two more shots at Omaha. As I've pointed out before: if Darwin Barney's relay to Canham was in front of 1800 fans in some AA ball park, it would be long forgotten...as it is, the play lives forever. HUGE difference between skipping pro ball after HS vs skipping pro ball after your Junior year of college. HS draftees going to college still have a very decent shot at getting signed for big bucks. If you're drafted as a college senior, you'll be lucky to get $50K. Many get closer to $5 or $10K. The gist of my argument is less about money than whether KJ would "benefit" as a player from another year of college. He's going to get very good coaching and a whole lot of patience from whatever organization drafts him, and he'll be facing consistently stiffer competition than he would be if he stays at OSU. He would not benefit either financially OR in his skills by staying at OSU for 2018 vs going pro. We can say stuff like "he'd benefit from staying in college for another year" about football players, because the NFL has no minor league system that plays at a higher skill level than the NCAA. It's completely absurd to say Harrison would get better as a college player in 2018 than he would as a minor leaguer. Only "absurd" in your world. You'd be surprised at the level of coaching in some organizations at the lower levels of Rookie and Short A... it's a training ground for coaches too. Most of the elite coaching happens with their roving instructors. You sell PC and staff a little short... surprising. I'll tell you... OSU's staff is better than many lower minor clubs. And, leverage is not as big of deal with slotted $. Yep... you can negotiate within that slot, but, turning down the offer puts pressure on the club's plans further down. So... unless you're an elite 1st rounder they are not going to let one spot screw up their plans to over pay a lower slot if a player they like falls their way. It's why not one 1st pick has gotten full slot $$ since the system was adopted. And... if KJ did return and was stellar... slot $ are slot $. True of he just duplicates this year and isn't dominate he'll drop. But, if he becomes elite he'll be covered Senior of not. Been involved in a few, there's less "leverage" than you think. But, as I said a post ago, of he goes top 60, and gets 75% of slot... after agent and taxes hard to pass $275-600k net. |
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Post by kersting13 on Jun 7, 2017 22:38:12 GMT -8
HUGE difference between skipping pro ball after HS vs skipping pro ball after your Junior year of college. HS draftees going to college still have a very decent shot at getting signed for big bucks. If you're drafted as a college senior, you'll be lucky to get $50K. Many get closer to $5 or $10K. The gist of my argument is less about money than whether KJ would "benefit" as a player from another year of college. He's going to get very good coaching and a whole lot of patience from whatever organization drafts him, and he'll be facing consistently stiffer competition than he would be if he stays at OSU. He would not benefit either financially OR in his skills by staying at OSU for 2018 vs going pro. We can say stuff like "he'd benefit from staying in college for another year" about football players, because the NFL has no minor league system that plays at a higher skill level than the NCAA. It's completely absurd to say Harrison would get better as a college player in 2018 than he would as a minor leaguer. Only "absurd" in your world. You'd be surprised at the level of coaching in some organizations at the lower levels of Rookie and Short A... it's a training ground for coaches too. Most of the elite coaching happens with their roving instructors. You sell PC and staff a little short... surprising. I'll tell you... OSU's staff is better than many lower minor clubs. And, leverage is not as big of deal with slotted $. Yep... you can negotiate within that slot, but, turning down the offer puts pressure on the club's plans further down. So... unless you're an elite 1st rounder they are not going to let one spot screw up their plans to over pay a lower slot if a player they like falls their way. It's why not one 1st pick has gotten full slot $$ since the system was adopted. And... if KJ did return and was stellar... slot $ are slot $. True of he just duplicates this year and isn't dominate he'll drop. But, if he becomes elite he'll be covered Senior of not. Been involved in a few, there's less "leverage" than you think. But, as I said a post ago, of he goes top 60, and gets 75% of slot... after agent and taxes hard to pass $275-600k net. As usual, you just trip over yourself once you've gone down the rabbit hole. Double down, Baseba1111. When that fails, triple down. That the #1 pick in the draft hasn't gotten slot is irrelevant to KJ Harrison. 18 of 34 first rounders were paid at slot or over slot last year. Still irrelevant. You go right ahead and believe that KJ would certainly get inferior coaching in the minors. Laughable. If KJ did return and was stellar - he'd likely get dicked, as only one Senior in last year's draft got over slot money. Fact: KJ Harrison would not benefit from staying at OSU another year. KJ is almost universally listed as a top 100 prospect. The slot for pick #100 is $537,100. In 2016, 59 of the top 100 draftees received slot or over slot from their drafting teams. One college senior drafted in the top 10 rounds last year received slot or over slot. Many top 10 round seniors received $5K or $10K bonuses. Keep digging, bro. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jun 7, 2017 22:42:41 GMT -8
Only "absurd" in your world. You'd be surprised at the level of coaching in some organizations at the lower levels of Rookie and Short A... it's a training ground for coaches too. Most of the elite coaching happens with their roving instructors. You sell PC and staff a little short... surprising. I'll tell you... OSU's staff is better than many lower minor clubs. And, leverage is not as big of deal with slotted $. Yep... you can negotiate within that slot, but, turning down the offer puts pressure on the club's plans further down. So... unless you're an elite 1st rounder they are not going to let one spot screw up their plans to over pay a lower slot if a player they like falls their way. It's why not one 1st pick has gotten full slot $$ since the system was adopted. And... if KJ did return and was stellar... slot $ are slot $. True of he just duplicates this year and isn't dominate he'll drop. But, if he becomes elite he'll be covered Senior of not. Been involved in a few, there's less "leverage" than you think. But, as I said a post ago, of he goes top 60, and gets 75% of slot... after agent and taxes hard to pass $275-600k net. As usual, you just trip over yourself once you've gone down the rabbit hole. Double down, Baseba1111. When that fails, triple down. That the #1 pick in the draft hasn't gotten slot is irrelevant to KJ Harrison. 18 of 34 first rounders were paid at slot or over slot last year. Still irrelevant. You go right ahead and believe that KJ would certainly get inferior coaching in the minors. Laughable. If KJ did return and was stellar - he'd likely get dicked, as only one Senior in last year's draft got over slot money. Fact: KJ Harrison would not benefit from staying at OSU another year. KJ is almost universally listed as a top 100 prospect. The slot for pick #100 is $537,100. In 2016, 59 of the top 100 draftees received slot or over slot from their drafting teams. One college senior drafted in the top 10 rounds last year received slot or over slot. Many top 10 round seniors received $5K or $10K bonuses. Keep digging, bro. Dude... your figures are a little slighted. But... as I said at the start... is my opinion. You seen to think you know all the numbers. I can tell you for a fact what your seeing and what a player sees in the bank are vastly different. So... no hole here... just talking to one. So we know your feelings and I've explained mine... At least you are consistent😉 Enough on this topic and back to real ball. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jun 13, 2017 14:05:02 GMT -8
"I will wager that KJ gets far closer to 200k than that 1m figure?" I'll take that action. Pick your wager. Far closer would put the over/under signing bonus # around $550k. ("closer" would use $600k). If he maxes at slot value which he will not as a catcher who is very raw... he'd net about $380k. Not close to 1mil... |
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Post by kersting13 on Jun 13, 2017 14:10:10 GMT -8
"I will wager that KJ gets far closer to 200k than that 1m figure?" I'll take that action. Pick your wager. Far closer would put the over/under signing bonus # around $550k. ("closer" would use $600k). If he maxes at slot value which he will not as a catcher who is very raw... he'd net about $380k. Not close to 1mil... LOL, now you're changing the rules to net figures? |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jun 13, 2017 14:14:52 GMT -8
If he maxes at slot value which he will not as a catcher who is very raw... he'd net about $380k. Not close to 1mil... LOL, now you're changing the rules to net figures? I never changed... it was mentioned by me or another poster early on (that and agent fees I believe). All that matters is net. You don't get to take home the rest. Have you EVER sat in a signing meeting?? What is reported is NOT what the player gets. Did you not know that?? You might want to consult a tax attorney of not!!! |
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Post by kersting13 on Jun 13, 2017 14:49:32 GMT -8
LOL, now you're changing the rules to net figures? I never changed... it was mentioned by me or another poster early on (that and agent fees I believe). All that matters is net. You don't get to take home the rest. Have you EVER sat in a signing meeting?? What is reported is NOT what the player gets. Did you not know that?? You might want to consult a tax attorney of not!!! More of the same from you baseba1111. Always trying to finagle your way out of your BS. You're as transparent as a slice of saran wrap. KJ Harrison is far better off going pro this year than staying at OSU for another year. Quit trying to squiggle out of your wrongness by claiming you meant net $$ all along. It doesn't matter. You are wrong about KJ being better off staying at OSU for 2018. It's an undeniable fact. It really is OK to admit you're wrong, Fonzie. |
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Post by beavs6 on Jun 13, 2017 14:50:52 GMT -8
LOL, now you're changing the rules to net figures? I never changed... it was mentioned by me or another poster early on (that and agent fees I believe). All that matters is net. You don't get to take home the rest. Have you EVER sat in a signing meeting?? What is reported is NOT what the player gets. Did you not know that?? You might want to consult a tax attorney of not!!! It was noticed you edited your original post to use the net after agent and taxes line. When ANYONE talks "slot"(and that was the original money figure discussion), they are talking gross. Whether it is an agent, tax advisor, scout, or message board hack. Also noticed you added the "I don't bet except my scotch" or something to that effect. Doesn't matter. Not worth the time. You will NEVER be a stand-up guy. Your place on the board is known by most here. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jun 13, 2017 15:02:42 GMT -8
I never changed... it was mentioned by me or another poster early on (that and agent fees I believe). All that matters is net. You don't get to take home the rest. Have you EVER sat in a signing meeting?? What is reported is NOT what the player gets. Did you not know that?? You might want to consult a tax attorney of not!!! It was noticed you edited your original post to use the net after agent and taxes line. When ANYONE talks "slot"(and that was the original money figure discussion), they are talking gross. Whether it is an agent, tax advisor, scout, or message board hack. Also noticed you added the "I don't bet except my scotch" or something to that effect. Doesn't matter. Not worth the time. You will NEVER be a stand-up guy. Your place on the board is known by most here. As is yours in life!! LOL Ya, the edits occurred in the same session... as most neophytes think contract money is actually what a player gets. It is not even close. And... scotch is what I drink... and gamble/bet is what I don't do... ever. I mentioned as some on this board actually have friendly bets for beer. I in now way would want to meet to collect from those "little big men" who want to bet on topics they only know from reading online info. Yep... my place is an anonymous poster... who by simple chance of life experiences know more than you in most aspects of baseball... grooming/recognizing talent, connections in college and pro ball, etc. Just like you and kersting must know something more than I from your simple life experiences. The difference on this board, I do not care if you think I'm right or wrong.  |
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Post by beavs6 on Jun 13, 2017 15:19:29 GMT -8
It was noticed you edited your original post to use the net after agent and taxes line. When ANYONE talks "slot"(and that was the original money figure discussion), they are talking gross. Whether it is an agent, tax advisor, scout, or message board hack. Also noticed you added the "I don't bet except my scotch" or something to that effect. Doesn't matter. Not worth the time. You will NEVER be a stand-up guy. Your place on the board is known by most here. As is yours in life!! LOL Ya, the edits occurred in the same session... as most neophytes think contract money is actually what a player gets. It is not even close. And... scotch is what I drink... and gamble/bet is what I don't do... ever. I mentioned as some on this board actually have friendly bets for beer. I in now way would want to meet to collect from those "little big men" who want to bet on topics they only know from reading online info. Yep... my place is an anonymous poster... who by simple chance of life experiences know more than you in most aspects of baseball... grooming/recognizing talent, connections in college and pro ball, etc. Just like you and kersting must know something more than I from your simple life experiences. The difference on this board, I do not care if you think I'm right or wrong. LOL. Pivot and turn...pivot and turn. It is a good thing that kersting and I know of which we speak. The idea that "slot" money as reported in any reputable meaning refers to gross, not what KJ can take his girlfriend to the movies with. If you do not know the definition of "slot", bad on you. You chose to try and change the definition of the discussion. Best part of message board banter is when the pompous ass can't help himself. And you do care...you will prove that.  (See you in Omaha?...again. Not as anonymous as you think.) |
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Post by ricke71 on Jun 13, 2017 15:23:15 GMT -8
I'm sure as heck not going to QUOTE any of the immediately above, because this thread is "how do you feel about our lineup" Not who knows the most about 'slot' yadda yadda.
So, back to our lineup. What really strikes me is the gains in terms of playing the game the Casey/Beaver way over the past 6-7 weeks.
Players like Anderson, Kwan, Gretler, Larnach and there are others, are spectacularly coming into their own at precisely the right time.
Opposing pitching staffs, even MLB Round 1, #5 pick, pitchers, have no answer to the Beaver batting order
It was just a short 2 years (and a few weeks) ago when Gretler was forced into the lineup due to injury. He was a sure out / sure rally killer....now it's "watch out!". There's not a player that gets regular playing time, as a starter or a part time starter or a defensive replacement that doesn't contribute and isn't potentially DANGEROUS (from the other teams perspective).
So, how do I feel about the lineup?....DAMNED Excited !!!!!!
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Post by baseba1111 on Jun 13, 2017 15:27:46 GMT -8
I'm sure as heck not going to QUOTE any of the immediately above, because this thread is "how do you feel about our lineup" Not who knows the most about 'slot' yadda yadda. So, back to our lineup. What really strikes me is the gains in terms of playing the game the Casey/Beaver way over the past 6-7 weeks. Players like Anderson, Kwan, Gretler, Larnach and there are others, are spectacularly coming into their own at precisely the right time. Opposing pitching staffs, even MLB Round 1, #5 pick, pitchers, have no answer to the Beaver batting order It was just a short 2 years (and a few weeks) ago when Gretler was forced into the lineup due to injury. He was a sure out / sure rally killer....now it's "watch out!". There's not a player that gets regular playing time, as a starter or a part time starter or a defensive replacement that doesn't contribute and isn't potentially DANGEROUS (from the other teams perspective). So, how do I feel about the lineup?....DAMNED Excited !!!!!! Ya my bad... couldn't resist "casting a line" and got us off track. |
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Post by ricke71 on Jun 13, 2017 15:44:20 GMT -8
I'm sure as heck not going to QUOTE any of the immediately above, because this thread is "how do you feel about our lineup" Not who knows the most about 'slot' yadda yadda. So, back to our lineup. What really strikes me is the gains in terms of playing the game the Casey/Beaver way over the past 6-7 weeks. Players like Anderson, Kwan, Gretler, Larnach and there are others, are spectacularly coming into their own at precisely the right time. Opposing pitching staffs, even MLB Round 1, #5 pick, pitchers, have no answer to the Beaver batting order It was just a short 2 years (and a few weeks) ago when Gretler was forced into the lineup due to injury. He was a sure out / sure rally killer....now it's "watch out!". There's not a player that gets regular playing time, as a starter or a part time starter or a defensive replacement that doesn't contribute and isn't potentially DANGEROUS (from the other teams perspective). So, how do I feel about the lineup?....DAMNED Excited !!!!!! Ya my bad... couldn't resist "casting a line" and got us off track. Good on you 1111. It's less than 4 days until the most important game of the season, and I really believe that, other than the starting pitcher "situation" (a quick note on that below), that the team is absolutely coming together / 'peaking' at just the right time. There are no glaring weakness, there's barely even a minor glitch. As far as starting rotation....well, the Beavers just SWEPT Vanderbilt, using exactly 1/3 of their late-season starting rotation. Other teams would kill to have that luxury. Go Beavs ! |
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Post by jdogge on Jun 13, 2017 15:53:55 GMT -8
It was noticed you edited your original post to use the net after agent and taxes line. When ANYONE talks "slot"(and that was the original money figure discussion), they are talking gross. Whether it is an agent, tax advisor, scout, or message board hack. Also noticed you added the "I don't bet except my scotch" or something to that effect. Doesn't matter. Not worth the time. You will NEVER be a stand-up guy. Your place on the board is known by most here. As is yours in life!! LOL Ya, the edits occurred in the same session... as most neophytes think contract money is actually what a player gets. It is not even close. And... scotch is what I drink... and gamble/bet is what I don't do... ever. I mentioned as some on this board actually have friendly bets for beer. I in now way would want to meet to collect from those "little big men" who want to bet on topics they only know from reading online info. Yep... my place is an anonymous poster... who by simple chance of life experiences know more than you in most aspects of baseball... grooming/recognizing talent, connections in college and pro ball, etc. Just like you and kersting must know something more than I from your simple life experiences. The difference on this board, I do not care if you think I'm right or wrong. "Yep... my place is an anonymous poster... who by simple chance of life experiences know more than you in most aspects of baseball... grooming/recognizing talent, connections in college and pro ball, etc. Just like you and kersting must know something more than I from your simple life experiences. The difference on this board, I do not care if you think I'm right or wrong." Hahahahahaha hahahahaha hahahaha ... |
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(See you in Omaha?...again. Not as anonymous as you think.)