|
|
Post by ag87 on Mar 29, 2017 12:08:26 GMT -8
Darwin started at shortstop three years. In those years, OSU went to three college world series and won two of them. That's not a coincidence. I think some of his value was his personality (loved the game, always smiling, being intense without getting tight) and it rubbing off on teammates. So although he was only an "above-average" hitter, he is an all-time great Beaver.
Now Madrigal is appearing to be a monster hitter. A team needs some good fortune to win a championship and we are in the hunt this year and probably next. Madrigal is on-pace to be considered on par or better with Conforto and Ellsbury.
|
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 12:19:38 GMT -8
Post by baseba1111 on Mar 29, 2017 12:19:38 GMT -8
Wow... really... a major league star in one of the toughest cities to play in for YEARS... and a college soph is a better clutch hitter???! Comparing him to DBar is bad enough... he's 75 or so games into his career. Nothing is worse than the far too early comparisons to established greats... the 'baby Jordans... Shacks... etc"... Nick is having a great run. Right now he is a very good college player who more than likely will level out in the .360-.380 range. He's a "prospect" that's all right now. Petey at ASU was a stud... even by ASU standards... "In three years at ASU, Pedroia never hit below .347 and had a career average of .384, starting all 185 games. To help ASU recruit better pitchers, Pedroia also relinquished the last two years of his athletic scholarship" He is a MLB regular... and AL MVP... 4 time All Star... 4 time Gold Glove, ROY, with 130+ HRs and 130+ SBs, already 1600+ hits, and a .301 career average. For the record, I'm just going with "reminds me of" vs better than. In other words, "has some Pedroia" to his game... As far as "too early comparisons go" I thought it was the great1111 who once mentioned that on an internet message board we could all have our opinions and that's okay?  Did I quote your post??? "That's been a lot of the commentary of scouts and the tv broadcast guys - the comparisons to Dustin. But I think he is a bit better hitter, especially in the clutch. I don't remember Pedroia hitting .400 while in college, and even though you liked his odds when he came to the plate in crunch time, Madrigal is Mr. Clutch personified." |
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 12:34:46 GMT -8
Post by nabeav on Mar 29, 2017 12:34:46 GMT -8
He actually reminds me of Pedroia.. That's been a lot of the commentary of scouts and the tv broadcast guys - the comparisons to Dustin. But I think he is a bit better hitter, especially in the clutch. I don't remember Pedroia hitting .400 while in college, and even though you liked his odds when he came to the plate in crunch time, Madrigal is Mr. Clutch personified. Pedroia's college stats: 2002 - .347/1/45 2003 - .404/4/52 2004 - .393/9/49 I'd say that RBI's are a pretty good indicator of clutch hitting, and this is in no way a knock on Madrigal, who is amazing and may go on to have a career pretty similar to Pedroia's. Pedroia also hit in an era where the bats had more pop, too. |
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 12:49:58 GMT -8
Post by baseba1111 on Mar 29, 2017 12:49:58 GMT -8
A little perspective - Darwin Barney is and will always be one of our all-time greats .... but does time dim our memory and make him more of a superhero than he was? Yes, we won two national championships with his (and others) leadership, and unless another Beaver team wins it all, you cannot consider it one of the greatest. Darwin stats (BA/HR/RBI/Errors) 2005 - .301/0/18/22 2006 - .330/0/36/24 2007 - .302/5/56/17 Nick stats 2016 - .333/1/29/5 2017 - .407/3/14/3 Wow those error numbers for D-Bar are way higher than I would have guessed. True that... but, also no lovely turf at any venue! |
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 12:49:58 GMT -8
Post by kersting13 on Mar 29, 2017 12:49:58 GMT -8
That's been a lot of the commentary of scouts and the tv broadcast guys - the comparisons to Dustin. But I think he is a bit better hitter, especially in the clutch. I don't remember Pedroia hitting .400 while in college, and even though you liked his odds when he came to the plate in crunch time, Madrigal is Mr. Clutch personified. Pedroia's college stats: 2002 - .347/1/45 2003 - .404/4/52 2004 - .393/9/49 I'd say that RBI's are a pretty good indicator of clutch hitting, and this is in no way a knock on Madrigal, who is amazing and may go on to have a career pretty similar to Pedroia's. Pedroia also hit in an era where the bats had more pop, too. I'd also wonder where in the line-up Pedroia batted? Leadoff isn't exactly the ideal spot in the line-up to accumulate RBI. |
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 12:51:36 GMT -8
nabeav likes this
Post by baseba1111 on Mar 29, 2017 12:51:36 GMT -8
Pedroia's college stats: 2002 - .347/1/45 2003 - .404/4/52 2004 - .393/9/49 I'd say that RBI's are a pretty good indicator of clutch hitting, and this is in no way a knock on Madrigal, who is amazing and may go on to have a career pretty similar to Pedroia's. Pedroia also hit in an era where the bats had more pop, too. I'd also wonder where in the line-up Pedroia batted? Leadoff isn't exactly the ideal spot in the line-up to accumulate RBI. True... but those #'s would make him the best hitter in OSU history... average and RBIs... quite a combo! |
|
|
|
Post by zeroposter on Mar 29, 2017 14:03:55 GMT -8
I will take any of the players mentioned (throw Cadyn in for his glove as well) and call it good. However, Barney is on a platform above all others simply because of one play he made in Charlottesville. The semi-deep fly ball to left center that Chris Hopkins lost in the sun would have ended the Beaver run if Barney hadn't have instantly realized the problem. Coach Casey has even said that may have been the greatest clutch play that he ever witnessed. Bat or no bat, Barney stands alone. Barney may also be the only Beaver player who could flip Casey crap and still be in the lineup. Lol
|
|
|
|
Post by ricke71 on Mar 29, 2017 14:43:20 GMT -8
Wow those error numbers for D-Bar are way higher than I would have guessed. True that... but, also no lovely turf at any venue! when I scanned back thru the stats this morning I too noticed Barney's error numbers. Just goes to show that moving to a great infield surface,and to 2B, and no doubt working his tail off in the minors, makes a Gold Glove a bit more obtainable. Also noticed that Kunda (granted at 3B) had some pretty darn respectable fielding #s. |
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 14:48:57 GMT -8
Post by mbabeav on Mar 29, 2017 14:48:57 GMT -8
Wow... really... a major league star in one of the toughest cities to play in for YEARS... and a college soph is a better clutch hitter???! Comparing him to DBar is bad enough... he's 75 or so games into his career. Nothing is worse than the far too early comparisons to established greats... the 'baby Jordans... Shacks... etc"... Nick is having a great run. Right now he is a very good college player who more than likely will level out in the .360-.380 range. He's a "prospect" that's all right now. Petey at ASU was a stud... even by ASU standards... "In three years at ASU, Pedroia never hit below .347 and had a career average of .384, starting all 185 games. To help ASU recruit better pitchers, Pedroia also relinquished the last two years of his athletic scholarship" He is a MLB regular... and AL MVP... 4 time All Star... 4 time Gold Glove, ROY, with 130+ HRs and 130+ SBs, already 1600+ hits, and a .301 career average. For the record, I'm just going with "reminds me of" vs better than. In other words, "has some Pedroia" to his game... As far as "too early comparisons go" I thought it was the great1111 who once mentioned that on an internet message board we could all have our opinions and that's okay? um, baseba111, i perhaps should have been a bit clearer - I was reflecting on college performance - I remember Pedroia at ASU, but I don't recall him ever being called the best college player in America at the start of his soph campaign. If Nick turns out to be close to as good as Dustin is in the pros, then we can talk comparisons relative to that. Pedroia is working on HOF numbers - Nick hasn't even seen A ball yet. |
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Mar 29, 2017 15:00:32 GMT -8
I don't know about the start of his sophomore year, but Pedroia was a two time all-American (his soph. and jr. years). In those seasons, Rickie Weeks and Jared Weaver won the player of the year awards.
|
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 15:08:16 GMT -8
Post by mbabeav on Mar 29, 2017 15:08:16 GMT -8
I don't know about the start of his sophomore year, but Pedroia was a two time all-American (his soph. and jr. years). In those seasons, Rickie Weeks and Jared Weaver won the player of the year awards. Nick was named Frosh All-American at the end of last season, and 1st Team All-American to start this season - can we just say they are both really good  |
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 15:09:14 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by baseba1111 on Mar 29, 2017 15:09:14 GMT -8
For the record, I'm just going with "reminds me of" vs better than. In other words, "has some Pedroia" to his game... As far as "too early comparisons go" I thought it was the great1111 who once mentioned that on an internet message board we could all have our opinions and that's okay? um, baseba111, i perhaps should have been a bit clearer - I was reflecting on college performance - I remember Pedroia at ASU, but I don't recall him ever being called the best college player in America at the start of his soph campaign. If Nick turns out to be close to as good as Dustin is in the pros, then we can talk comparisons relative to that. Pedroia is working on HOF numbers - Nick hasn't even seen A ball yet. I stand by my post... being "called" and actually posting what Petey did in college is no comparison, pro #s not withstanding. 2004 Golden Spikes Award Finalist 2004 First-Team Baseball America and USA Today All-American 2003 Pac-10 Co-Player of the Year 2003 NCAA Defensive Player of the Year Seem fairly decent and as a SS who beat out another MLB player at ASU in Ian Kinsler. (Andre Ethier also on that squad) |
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 15:23:16 GMT -8
Post by mbabeav on Mar 29, 2017 15:23:16 GMT -8
um, baseba111, i perhaps should have been a bit clearer - I was reflecting on college performance - I remember Pedroia at ASU, but I don't recall him ever being called the best college player in America at the start of his soph campaign. If Nick turns out to be close to as good as Dustin is in the pros, then we can talk comparisons relative to that. Pedroia is working on HOF numbers - Nick hasn't even seen A ball yet. I stand by my post... being "called" and actually posting what Petey did in college is no comparison, pro #s not withstanding. 2004 Golden Spikes Award Finalist 2004 First-Team Baseball America and USA Today All-American 2003 Pac-10 Co-Player of the Year 2003 NCAA Defensive Player of the Year Seem fairly decent and as a SS who beat out another MLB player at ASU in Ian Kinsler. (Andre Ethier also on that squad) we'll see how much of those things our guy will have at the end of his junior season. |
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Mar 29, 2017 16:02:56 GMT -8
I think that "did he win a CWS" is in jest, but I'm going to take the bait anyways.....I love that any praise of a non-OSU athlete is somehow looked upon as not "being a beaver" around here. Talk of Kelsey Plum being better than Sydney Wiese on the WBB board was met with clutched pearls and gasps. NOBODY SAID Madrigal sucked, or that Darwin Barney wasn't good. Someone brought up Pedroia, said he didn't remember him being a .400 hitter. I found the stats saying he was, merely to point out how good he was. Then it's like "well I don't remember him being talked about as the best in the country when he was a sophomore." Well, he was a two time All-American. Now it's "well his team didn't win, he must not be the leader our guys are!" C'mon. There's nothing wrong with admitting athletes at other schools are good. (For the record, Pedroia won two World Series). And really, it doesn't bother me if anyone thinks Madrigal is the best player to ever play in the Pac-8/10/12. Just be prepared for people to disagree and maybe post stats or other evidence to the contrary.
You know who is really really good? Dillon Brooks. I despise everything about Dillon Brooks with every fiber in my body, but god damn that guy can play basketball, which makes me hate him even more. He's probably better than Gary Payton II, and I love GPII. Let me check....yep: I'm still a Beaver fan.
|
|
|
|
when
Mar 29, 2017 16:27:41 GMT -8
Post by BeaverG20 on Mar 29, 2017 16:27:41 GMT -8
In defense of my response, and to expound upon it, I am not saying that Madrigal can't or won't surpass what Barney has done, but Barney and Canham were LEADERS on those teams, and "we" have had very few of those since. You can have Logan Ice or Andrew Susac as your catcher, I will take Canham. You can have Madrigal as your SS, (his future position is 2B) and I will take Barney (who IS a 2B). Me saying 'not until he wins 2 NC's' is a two-fold. First being CHAMPIONSHIPS/OMAHA matter, and second being that LEADERSHIP matters. If Madrigal, or others, lead this team to 3 consecutive trips to the elite 8, and Casey mentions Madrigal, or others, as the team leader over and over again, then I have no problem placing him up on high with the others that did it.
|
|
