|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 31, 2017 15:18:01 GMT -8
" And not a single player that was questionably recruited through this person ever played a single down for Oregon. "
For the sake of factuality, LaMichael James played a lot of downs. His recruitment was indeed questionable, they didn't find any money involved, but his involvement with Guru Willie was highly unusual.
|
|
|
|
Post by ostate on Jan 31, 2017 15:21:23 GMT -8
" And not a single player that was questionably recruited through this person ever played a single down for Oregon. " For the sake of factuality, LaMichael James played a lot of downs. His recruitment was indeed questionable, they didn't find any money involved, but his involvement with Guru Willie was highly unusual. He liked to beat on his girl too... |
|
|
|
Post by green85 on Jan 31, 2017 15:22:10 GMT -8
Let's not forget that their most successful years were a direct result of cheating... Phil's money well spent! Really. I have been a duck fan for decades and haven't found the connection between cheating and success in recent years. Can you help me by naming players that played in games for the ducks that were the result of cheating? I'd like to understand this direct connection you speak of.
|
|
|
|
Post by beavadelic on Jan 31, 2017 15:25:43 GMT -8
Mr./Mrs. 85, you joking or extremely naive? Taggert and crew, smack dab in the middle of the most football talent rich locale in the entire country produced the 77th and 74th ranked recruiting classes the past two years. That's not superstar recruiting, that's not great recruiting, that's not even good recruiting. To put how bad that is in perspective, the following programs produced higher ranked classes than Taggart and crew last year: San Jose State Fresno State New Mexico You expect anyone to believe, with the shortened recruiting window since arriving, internal problems with his staff, on top of the second terrible finish to a season at his new school, he's all of a sudden gone from the guy who could not out recruit San Jose St., Fresneck, and New Mexico to being able to recruit with the likes of the National Champs? Taggart's class currently 24th, UW 23rd, Clemson 22nd. Those are two playoff teams with much larger stadiums, as many resources at their disposal as needed, and both have continuity in recruiting staff since last spring. You're selling beach front property in Arizona, nobody's buying. Hmmm ...
Pac12 Oregon vs South Florida
You really don't see a difference?
Oregon has built a national reputation based upon 9 years of very highly successful performances. Kids KNOW Oregon as a winner. Old folks like me have a whole different view of the Oregon program, but youngsters in high school have a very positive outlook regarding Oregon.
Oregon has recruited in the top 30 pretty much every year - even with Helfrich. It is not some miracle that Oregon could end up with a top 25 class. Right now Oregon is likely to end up with the 5th rated class in the Pac12. Not great, but also not far off of their relative position in recruiting in the last 15 years.
South Florida is a different job than Oregon for a Head Coach. And just like we have seen Utah's recruiting classes rise higher in national rankings since joining the Pac12 (after leaving the MWC), we can expect a coach coming to Oregon from a school like USF to garner the benefits of Oregon's relative position in their conference.
If you can't see that ... and somehow have to believe that Oregon is cheating ... well I can leave you with your ignorance and hatred without a worry.
I'm gonna get BBQed on here for saying this, green85, but I do appreciate your efforts to be a good guest on here while trying to provide support for your ducks. You don't name call or belittle other people's viewpoints, but you're also not totally PC in your posts. I would be lying if I didn't say that I like seeing our rival knocked down a few notches. I think if you have a pulse and truly love your school/team, you want to exceed your rival. I also try to be fair - not everyone who plays for Oregon is an idiot. In fact, a lot of athletes there are good people - like they are anywhere else. I refuse to typecast a kid negatively just because they play somewhere else. Now, if they're a bad actor...that's another story. I pity people like Lyerle or Jon Boyett or LaGarrette Blount, but they deserve the criticism. OSU has had some kids who made poor choices and have been far from model citizens through the years. What is reality - like it or not as a Beaver fan - is that UO has ridiculous facilities and resources in general, and they've done a masterful job of national marketing as well as showing the success on the field/court. In addition, it's beyond frustrating to have your rival connected to a benefactor with bottomless pockets, and see moves like baseball, where it was magically resurrected on the heels of back to back national titles in the sport by the Beavs. To make it worse, Casey's program was built on sweat and bake sales and local kids buying in. To see a brand new state of the art baseball field spring up immediately in Eugene, and then Horton gets lured for a lot more money than we could ever had paid our amazing coach, it just further perpetuated the idea that the ducks don't do it the right way or seem entitled. For many like me, it's partly that old school principle of earning things that rankles me (as opposed to buying it), but it's also for me a difficult reality that OSU has no Phil Knight to give us a boost. While I passionately believe that success should be earned, I also confess that if it were OSU that was the recipient of the resources and wealth, I'd gladly accept those benefits directed toward the Beavs. Baseball (significant history and success) and women's hoops (recent) are two areas in which OSU takes a backseat to almost nobody, but the money-makers - football and to a much lesser extent basketball - it's hard to compete with those resources. I have no problem that facilities + recent history + fresh, exciting new faces on the staff are the real reasons for the success in recruiting, but it's easy for us to imagine that it's other insidious factors - especially given some of the shady stuff that has gone on in Eugene since the entire institution made the decision to sell out and compete with the best in every sport. It's likely that everyone who stays at the top in those big money sports is pushing the envelope to some degree morally. Since I've always hated the "if your not cheating, you're not trying hard enough" adage, it's a sore subject with me. |
|
|
|
Post by ostate on Jan 31, 2017 15:28:04 GMT -8
Let's not forget that their most successful years were a direct result of cheating... Phil's money well spent! Really. I have been a duck fan for decades and haven't found the connection between cheating and success in recent years. Can you help me by naming players that played in games for the ducks that were the result of cheating? I'd like to understand this direct connection you speak of.
Everyone of them... you know it, I know it - we all know it... |
|
|
|
Post by green85 on Jan 31, 2017 15:31:12 GMT -8
" And not a single player that was questionably recruited through this person ever played a single down for Oregon. " For the sake of factuality, LaMichael James played a lot of downs. His recruitment was indeed questionable, they didn't find any money involved, but his involvement with Guru Willie was highly unusual. Actually, LaMichael James was recruited fairly according to NCAA rules. Nothing in his recruitment violated a single NCAA rule. Willie worked for a recruiting service that provided all of the documentation required at the time. The fact that LaMichael moved from one school to another for high school football happens several times every season in Eugene, let alone in many other places.
The NCAA found no violations regarding LaMichael James and did not sanction the school or the player. So, no there was no player questionably recruited that played for Oregon. BTW, Willie contacted Chip Kelly about LaMichael James to help LaMichael. As you stated, there was no money or NCAA violations involved.
LaMichael was offered by other schools, including TCU.
|
|
|
|
Post by green85 on Jan 31, 2017 15:38:37 GMT -8
" And not a single player that was questionably recruited through this person ever played a single down for Oregon. " For the sake of factuality, LaMichael James played a lot of downs. His recruitment was indeed questionable, they didn't find any money involved, but his involvement with Guru Willie was highly unusual. He liked to beat on his girl too... Using certain words to characterize what you see can be a bit misleading ...
LaMichael had one incident with his girlfriend. And while the context of the FACTS would lead to a different conclusion than yours ... I'll just give you this. The GIRLFRIEND apologized to LaMichael for the trouble she had caused him when the matter was resolved in court. She wrote a letter telling him how sorry she was for her actions that precipitated his grabbing her.
I am saddened to see people use their hate for Oregon to make such comments with such characterization. I am hopeful you can see past the school colors to the humans involved when you post such things.
|
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Jan 31, 2017 15:41:26 GMT -8
Pat Casey is still at OSU in large part thanks to Phil Knight....and I believe many of the upgrades to Goss Stadium have been at least partially funded by Nike/Knight.
Oregon started winning in the mid 90's. Oregon saw an influx of donations, largely from PK. Oregon used those donations to brand themselves as a premiere destination football school even before they were one. Kids bought in. Recruiting went up. Oregon got really good. However, Oregon operated outside the parameters of what the NCAA allows. Oregon got caught. Oregon lost their coach. Oregon lost official visits. Their recruiting lagged. They got a new coach. They got their official visits back. Their recruiting went back up.
This all seems completely logical to me....I'm not sure why the "they must be cheating" aspect was brought into this. OSU's basketball program got sanctioned after our greatest stretch ever (1978-81)....does that mean we must have been cheating to land Gary Payton?
I get the angst....it sucks to just stomp a mudhole in a school to the point they have to fire their coach, only for three months later have momentum and interest swing fully back in their favor. It sucks. I don't like it at all. But the "they must be cheating" angle truly is why they think of us as little brother, and we'd all be better off if we'd follow Gary Andersen's lead and just focus on us.
|
|
|
|
Post by green85 on Jan 31, 2017 15:46:21 GMT -8
Hmmm ...
Pac12 Oregon vs South Florida
You really don't see a difference?
Oregon has built a national reputation based upon 9 years of very highly successful performances. Kids KNOW Oregon as a winner. Old folks like me have a whole different view of the Oregon program, but youngsters in high school have a very positive outlook regarding Oregon.
Oregon has recruited in the top 30 pretty much every year - even with Helfrich. It is not some miracle that Oregon could end up with a top 25 class. Right now Oregon is likely to end up with the 5th rated class in the Pac12. Not great, but also not far off of their relative position in recruiting in the last 15 years.
South Florida is a different job than Oregon for a Head Coach. And just like we have seen Utah's recruiting classes rise higher in national rankings since joining the Pac12 (after leaving the MWC), we can expect a coach coming to Oregon from a school like USF to garner the benefits of Oregon's relative position in their conference.
If you can't see that ... and somehow have to believe that Oregon is cheating ... well I can leave you with your ignorance and hatred without a worry.
I'm gonna get BBQed on here for saying this, green85, but I do appreciate your efforts to be a good guest on here while trying to provide support for your ducks. You don't name call or belittle other people's viewpoints, but you're also not totally PC in your posts. I would be lying if I didn't say that I like seeing our rival knocked down a few notches. I think if you have a pulse and truly love your school/team, you want to exceed your rival. I also try to be fair - not everyone who plays for Oregon is an idiot. In fact, a lot of athletes there are good people - like they are anywhere else. I refuse to typecast a kid negatively just because they play somewhere else. Now, if they're a bad actor...that's another story. I pity people like Lyerle or Jon Boyett or LaGarrette Blount, but they deserve the criticism. OSU has had some kids who made poor choices and have been far from model citizens through the years. What is reality - like it or not as a Beaver fan - is that UO has ridiculous facilities and resources in general, and they've done a masterful job of national marketing as well as showing the success on the field/court. In addition, it's beyond frustrating to have your rival connected to a benefactor with bottomless pockets, and see moves like baseball, where it was magically resurrected on the heels of back to back national titles in the sport by the Beavs. To make it worse, Casey's program was built on sweat and bake sales and local kids buying in. To see a brand new state of the art baseball field spring up immediately in Eugene, and then Horton gets lured for a lot more money than we could ever had paid our amazing coach, it just further perpetuated the idea that the ducks don't do it the right way or seem entitled. For many like me, it's partly that old school principle of earning things that rankles me (as opposed to buying it), but it's also for me a difficult reality that OSU has no Phil Knight to give us a boost. While I passionately believe that success should be earned, I also confess that if it were OSU that was the recipient of the resources and wealth, I'd gladly accept those benefits directed toward the Beavs. Baseball (significant history and success) and women's hoops (recent) are two areas in which OSU takes a backseat to almost nobody, but the money-makers - football and to a much lesser extent basketball - it's hard to compete with those resources. I have no problem that facilities + recent history + fresh, exciting new faces on the staff are the real reasons for the success in recruiting, but it's easy for us to imagine that it's other insidious factors - especially given some of the shady stuff that has gone on in Eugene since the entire institution made the decision to sell out and compete with the best in every sport. It's likely that everyone who stays at the top in those big money sports is pushing the envelope to some degree morally. Since I've always hated the "if your not cheating, you're not trying hard enough" adage, it's a sore subject with me.
The baseball thing ... I grew up an Oregon fan from a young age. I actually remember the Oregon baseball team and attended a few games while in school in Cottage Grove. I was sad when the program was terminated. I was happy when the program was reinstated. The impetus for the revival was Pat Kilkenney, and a group of long time Duck fans that wanted it back.
The problem most OSU fans see is how Oregon spent money to make it happen. But the flip side of that is, why bring a sport back to simply play in a sandlot and treat it like an intramural sport? And because of what had happened at Hayward field and Howe field and Civic Stadium, well the logical step was to build a ball park. And the plan was to build it for both Oregon and the 1A Pro team Eugene Ems. And it was new, so it had stuff.
As for Horton ... well sometimes you shoot for the moon and hit something.
|
|
|
|
Post by ostate on Jan 31, 2017 15:51:06 GMT -8
He liked to beat on his girl too... Using certain words to characterize what you see can be a bit misleading ...
LaMichael had one incident with his girlfriend. And while the context of the FACTS would lead to a different conclusion than yours ... I'll just give you this. The GIRLFRIEND apologized to LaMichael for the trouble she had caused him when the matter was resolved in court. She wrote a letter telling him how sorry she was for her actions that precipitated his grabbing her.
I am saddened to see people use their hate for Oregon to make such comments with such characterization. I am hopeful you can see past the school colors to the humans involved when you post such things.
His girl apologized after Phil (via Chip) paid her... |
|
|
|
Post by green85 on Jan 31, 2017 16:33:50 GMT -8
Using certain words to characterize what you see can be a bit misleading ...
LaMichael had one incident with his girlfriend. And while the context of the FACTS would lead to a different conclusion than yours ... I'll just give you this. The GIRLFRIEND apologized to LaMichael for the trouble she had caused him when the matter was resolved in court. She wrote a letter telling him how sorry she was for her actions that precipitated his grabbing her.
I am saddened to see people use their hate for Oregon to make such comments with such characterization. I am hopeful you can see past the school colors to the humans involved when you post such things.
His girl apologized after Phil (via Chip) paid her... I do like a good joke.
Post one when you find one that is funny.
|
|
|
|
Post by ostate on Jan 31, 2017 16:42:31 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by alwaysorange on Jan 31, 2017 16:48:41 GMT -8
I can't prove this but there is way too much cash flowing through Eugene. You can talk facilities and bling. But when a basketball coach with little history of recruiting top flight talent suddenly has top flight talent knocking on the door. The same with the new coach little history of attracting top flight talent but then he comes to Eugene and within a month can have more than their share of top talent making commitments. It goes to the power of NIKE that can attract top basketball teams to Portland for a tourney and can do the same for women's teams in Eugene. But it's more than NIKE and I smell cold hard cash.
|
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Jan 31, 2017 16:55:57 GMT -8
You mean those coaches that were at mid majors couldn't recruit top talent to come to their middling schools? I SMELL SCANDAL.
A tournament envisioned by Michigan State's athletic director involving schools that have multi-million dollar contracts with Nike playing in an RPI boosting tournament at the beginning of the year to honor the guy that puts money in all their pockets? Someone call Kerry Washington!
|
|
|
|
Post by ostate on Jan 31, 2017 17:03:24 GMT -8
|
|
