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Post by easyheat on Feb 4, 2024 21:01:53 GMT -8
Ah, you guys are "old school" promoting myths that are fallacy if you believe in the power of analytics and MLB data dating back to 1970. Data Processing has influenced the game and Man, would I like to have some conversations with some of my coaches and what they preached, First, lineups can be random. Some MLB Analytics Department Heads suggest you should stack your lineup sequentially - best hitter leads off and weakest hitter bats 9th. Others support the top to bottom arrangement but like the best OBP guy in the 2-hole. The most frequently told story on this subject is when Billy Martin's A's were on a multi-game losing streak, he told Art Fowler (his pitching coach) to make out the lineup by randomly picking 9 names out of a hat. They won, and Fowler continued that for every game - the A's won 11 in a row, and 14 of their next 15. Batting orders can be random. "Protection" is another myth. There is no data that supports any theory that batting in front of somebody or behind somebody is meaningful or, results in a different outcome in a PA. It sounds good but the number crunch doesn't support it. Want another one? Clutch hitting is mythology as well. Good hitters are there to hit and baserunners do not influence that fact. Adley was going to rip it regardless - bases empty or bases full.
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Post by easyheat on Feb 4, 2024 21:08:37 GMT -8
Bazzana is hoping for "Barrels".
I believe that is defined as "contact with an exit velo of 95+ mph and a minimum of 27 degrees launch angle".
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 5, 2024 7:52:20 GMT -8
Ah, you guys are "old school" promoting myths that are fallacy if you believe in the power of analytics and MLB data dating back to 1970. Data Processing has influenced the game and Man, would I like to have some conversations with some of my coaches and what they preached, First, lineups can be random. Some MLB Analytics Department Heads suggest you should stack your lineup sequentially - best hitter leads off and weakest hitter bats 9th. Others support the top to bottom arrangement but like the best OBP guy in the 2-hole. The most frequently told story on this subject is when Billy Martin's A's were on a multi-game losing streak, he told Art Fowler (his pitching coach) to make out the lineup by randomly picking 9 names out of a hat. They won, and Fowler continued that for every game - the A's won 11 in a row, and 14 of their next 15. Batting orders can be random. "Protection" is another myth. There is no data that supports any theory that batting in front of somebody or behind somebody is meaningful or, results in a different outcome in a PA. It sounds good but the number crunch doesn't support it. Want another one? Clutch hitting is mythology as well. Good hitters are there to hit and baserunners do not influence that fact. Adley was going to rip it regardless - bases empty or bases full. But we all saw Adley get intentionally walked, and then stranded on base because the guys hitting after him just weren't getting the job done. You gotta think if our lineup was stacked Adley's last season, he gets walked a lot less......or "protected." Maybe that's an extreme example though, as he was a total stud, surrounded by lesser hitters.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 5, 2024 7:53:36 GMT -8
Bazzana is hoping for "Barrels". I believe that is defined as "contact with an exit velo of 95+ mph and a minimum of 27 degrees launch angle". Bazzana could easily lead the team in every meaningful offensive category
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Post by easyheat on Feb 5, 2024 13:04:17 GMT -8
Adley Rutschman presented a complete hitter in his at bats. He confined his swings to pitches in the zone, used the whole yard and could bust a fastball 425' in a hurry. Pitchers walked Adley for those reasons and not much to get at a weaker hitter coming up behind him which would have usually been our 4 or 5-hole bat.
In 2018 and '19 College pitching was childs play for Adley, pitchers knew that, he knew that (made em throw strikes), and as a result, he walked a lot.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 5, 2024 15:30:09 GMT -8
Adley Rutschman presented a complete hitter in his at bats. He confined his swings to pitches in the zone, used the whole yard and could bust a fastball 425' in a hurry. Pitchers walked Adley for those reasons and not much to get at a weaker hitter coming up behind him which would have usually been our 4 or 5-hole bat. In 2018 and '19 College pitching was childs play for Adley, pitchers knew that, he knew that (made em throw strikes), and as a result, he walked a lot. I believe he had like 75 walks, 24 were intentional, in 56 games. I'm betting a good portion of the non-intentional walks were really kind of intentional if the count was in his favor, based on his ability, and the lack thereof behind him.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 7, 2024 16:41:51 GMT -8
Adley Rutschman presented a complete hitter in his at bats. He confined his swings to pitches in the zone, used the whole yard and could bust a fastball 425' in a hurry. Pitchers walked Adley for those reasons and not much to get at a weaker hitter coming up behind him which would have usually been our 4 or 5-hole bat. In 2018 and '19 College pitching was childs play for Adley, pitchers knew that, he knew that (made em throw strikes), and as a result, he walked a lot. I believe he had like 75 walks, 24 were intentional, in 56 games. I'm betting a good portion of the non-intentional walks were really kind of intentional if the count was in his favor, based on his ability, and the lack thereof behind him. 76 walks. 26 intentional. 57 games. Bailes should have moved Adley up in the order. Instead, Adley was wasted on the three-hole. The three-hole is the most likely position to come up in the order with two outs and no runners on base. Instead of scoring runs, Rutschman was intentionally stranded on the basepaths game after game after game.
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 7, 2024 21:21:41 GMT -8
Wasted?
Adley led in runs scored and RBI. He was in the ultimate spot for a team that had only one other regular... - hit over .300 (Philip) - OB% over .400 (McGarry) - more BBs the Ks (Malone)
The team hit .261 overall and AR accounted for over 33% of the runs (scored + RBI) overall and in conference play.
He was far from wasted and was placed where he helped the team the most. At 36-20/21-8 that team was mostly pitching and AR. Saying a different lineup would have made a difference is pure conjecture and couldn't be proven although some may try?!.
There was no other true offensive threat that scared any other team. AR, small ball and 72 sacrifice ABs was the offense.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 7, 2024 22:15:57 GMT -8
Wasted? Adley led in runs scored and RBI. He was in the ultimate spot for a team that had only one other regular... - hit over .300 (Philip) - OB% over .400 (McGarry) - more BBs the Ks (Malone) The team hit .261 overall and AR accounted for over 33% of the runs (scored + RBI) overall and in conference play. He was far from wasted and was placed where he helped the team the most. At 36-20/21-8 that team was mostly pitching and AR. Saying a different lineup would have made a difference is pure conjecture and couldn't be proven although some may try?!. There was no other true offensive threat that scared any other team. AR, small ball and 72 sacrifice ABs was the offense. The three-spot is for the fifth-best hitter on the team. Adley had no business being there. Move Adley to the two-spot in the Cincinnati game, and what is the result?
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 7, 2024 23:35:04 GMT -8
Wasted? Adley led in runs scored and RBI. He was in the ultimate spot for a team that had only one other regular... - hit over .300 (Philip) - OB% over .400 (McGarry) - more BBs the Ks (Malone) The team hit .261 overall and AR accounted for over 33% of the runs (scored + RBI) overall and in conference play. He was far from wasted and was placed where he helped the team the most. At 36-20/21-8 that team was mostly pitching and AR. Saying a different lineup would have made a difference is pure conjecture and couldn't be proven although some may try?!. There was no other true offensive threat that scared any other team. AR, small ball and 72 sacrifice ABs was the offense. The three-spot is for the fifth-best hitter on the team. Adley had no business being there. Move Adley to the two-spot in the Cincinnati game, and what is the result? A 7-6 loss as the pitching failed... twice. And, it's what actually happened and nothing you make up changes that. But, playing "fantasy make believe", hitting 2 spot may have changed the lead changing 7th to not?? In the 2nd spot they walk Adley to load the bases since they actually did with them already full. Unless you know they'd have changed their strategy? ? So take away a run. Unless of course you say that you know what happened with who ever hit in the "new" 3rd spot? But, then again Adely in that actual 3rd spot leads off the 9th... flies out. In the "fantasy" 2 spot he's up in the B8 with 2 out no one on... and what? Magically different outcomes. You have to love a guy who thinks they know the results of what never happened. Does hitting in the 2 spot change AR's ABs? Does he have the same ABs? Do the guys on either side have the same or different ABs? Since we're making crap up and AR is hitting #2 who exactly is lead-off? 3rd? Hell, what about the remainder of the lineup? What about the opposing strategy... Does it also change? Stay the same? OSU finished on a 3-game skid in 2019. Losing 5-0 to USC, 7-6 to Cincinnati, 4-1 to Creighton and Adley was 1/9 with 3 BB and 2 Ks and had zero to do with hitting in the 3 spot. FWIW... since you've most likely never coached at a high school or higher level, setting a lineup is a philosophy... not a set rule. Recently there's an emphasis on getting "better" hitters more plate appearances. But, "better" is an opinion in terms of your philosophy. Aaron Judge hits #2 often and is certainly not a good hitter by most standards. But, Boone wants to maximize plate appearances. Of course a guy like Mike Trout is one of the better overall hitters, but again it's to maximize plate appearances as MLB teams have multiple quality hitters vs a college team. Especially a college team with exactly two players hitting over .300, and only one of those with more BBs than Ks. However, many, MANY believe your best OVERALL hitter should bat 3rd. And, for those with that philosophy that's what you do. You may set your lineup anyway you like. But, just a hint... once the game is over you can't change it to get different results.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 8, 2024 9:06:13 GMT -8
The three-spot is for the fifth-best hitter on the team. Adley had no business being there. Move Adley to the two-spot in the Cincinnati game, and what is the result? A 7-6 loss as the pitching failed... twice. And, it's what actually happened and nothing you make up changes that. But, playing "fantasy make believe", hitting 2 spot may have changed the lead changing 7th to not?? In the 2nd spot they walk Adley to load the bases since they actually did with them already full. Unless you know they'd have changed their strategy? ? So take away a run. Unless of course you say that you know what happened with who ever hit in the "new" 3rd spot? But, then again Adely in that actual 3rd spot leads off the 9th... flies out. In the "fantasy" 2 spot he's up in the B8 with 2 out no one on... and what? Magically different outcomes. You have to love a guy who thinks they know the results of what never happened. Does hitting in the 2 spot change AR's ABs? Does he have the same ABs? Do the guys on either side have the same or different ABs? Since we're making crap up and AR is hitting #2 who exactly is lead-off? 3rd? Hell, what about the remainder of the lineup? What about the opposing strategy... Does it also change? Stay the same? OSU finished on a 3-game skid in 2019. Losing 5-0 to USC, 7-6 to Cincinnati, 4-1 to Creighton and Adley was 1/9 with 3 BB and 2 Ks and had zero to do with hitting in the 3 spot. FWIW... since you've most likely never coached at a high school or higher level, setting a lineup is a philosophy... not a set rule. Recently there's an emphasis on getting "better" hitters more plate appearances. But, "better" is an opinion in terms of your philosophy. Aaron Judge hits #2 often and is certainly not a good hitter by most standards. But, Boone wants to maximize plate appearances. Of course a guy like Mike Trout is one of the better overall hitters, but again it's to maximize plate appearances as MLB teams have multiple quality hitters vs a college team. Especially a college team with exactly two players hitting over .300, and only one of those with more BBs than Ks. However, many, MANY believe your best OVERALL hitter should bat 3rd. And, for those with that philosophy that's what you do. You may set your lineup anyway you like. But, just a hint... once the game is over you can't change it to get different results. First, the pitching did not fail or, at least, it was not the primary cause of failure. The fifth run was scored, because Ryan Ober, who was an awful defensive first baseman, dropped that foul ball. And the sixth run was scored on the Beau Philip error. It should have been 6-4, because Bumpass only gets up that last time, because of the shoddy defensive play to extend the game and give him a fifth at bat. At the plate, Rutschman came up with: two outs and bases empty (double), one out and bases empty (flyout), two outs and runner on second (intentional walk), bases loaded no outs (intentional walk), and bases empty no outs (flyout). Put Rutschman at the two. The results: 0-0. One out and bases empty. Rutschman comes up with more of an opportunity to make a difference. If Rutschman doubles, which he did in the game, You have two outs to bring home Rutschman, rather than one. In the actual game, Rutschman moved to third on a wild pitch, and Philip followed that up with a walk and then stole second. Second and third with one out, you have something to work with. In the actual game, it was second and third with two outs and Ober ended the first with an infield fly. 3-1 Cincinnati. No outs and bases empty. Rutschman comes up with more of an opportunity to make a difference. Rutschman flew out. Even so, the Beavers have two more outs to score a run, rather than the one that they were left with in the game. 3-2 Cincinnati. One out and runner on first. Rutschman gets a chance to hit rather than being intentionally walked with Cincinnati clinging to a one-run lead. The Bearcats have to pitch to him rather than pitching around him like in the game and then disposing of Philip. If they do walk Rutschman, Oregon State has two hitters to bring home Malone from second rather than one. 5-2 Cincinnati. Runners on first and second with no outs. This is the first situation, where putting Rutschman at the two does not help the situation. With the deference that Cincinnati gave Rutschman, Rutschman probably still walks the bases full for the three-hitter. However, this situation is unlikely given Oregon State's better situations in Rutschman's three previous plate appearances. 6-6. Bases empty and two outs. In the game, Rutschman flew out in the ninth, rather than coming up in the eighth. Rutschman comes up in a situation, where a flyout does not hurt as much. Flyout and start over with the three hitter in the ninth. Instead, Rutschman flies out and there are only two outs left in the game to try and score the tying run in the ninth. As said in the previous plate appearance, though, this situation is unlikely given Oregon State's better situations in Rutschman's first three plate appearances.
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 8, 2024 11:13:25 GMT -8
Lol... "you have to love a guy who thinks they know the results of what never happened."
As we all know different situations always lead to the same results! 🤣🤣
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 8, 2024 13:03:55 GMT -8
Lol... "you have to love a guy who thinks they know the results of what never happened." As we all know different situations always lead to the same results! 🤣🤣 Thank you very much for proving my point very eloquently! Yes, Georgie, that is exactly the point that I was trying to make. I am trying to make the point that different situations would lead to different results. And different situations would lead to obviously better results, because the situations were better. Unlike other sports, baseball is very formulaic, which easily lends itself to things like metrics. Unless you are as dense and sharp as a bowling ball, you can easily move players to different situations and determine whether the situation would provide the player with a greater or lesser chance of success. And then you can extrapolate from there. I mean, seriously. Is it seriously your position that Adley is getting worse pitches with nobody on and one out than nobody on and two out in the first? If he doubled with the junk he was being thrown, what does he do to a better pitch with one out in the first? The problem is that Adley never should have been placed in a position with no one on and two outs. A complete waste of Adley. And in the most important game of the season, Adley was wasted in not one but two different stupid two-out situations. A two out and no one on situation in the first and a second very obvious runner on second and two outs intentional walk situation. That is taking the bat out of Adley's hands in 40% of his plate appearances. In law, that would be malpractice. No one should do that. And I will continue to point out the foolishness of Bailey's lineups until the end of time, because they were categorically stupid.
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 8, 2024 14:14:04 GMT -8
Lol... "you have to love a guy who thinks they know the results of what never happened." As we all know different situations always lead to the same results! 🤣🤣 Thank you very much for proving my point very eloquently! Yes, Georgie, that is exactly the point that I was trying to make. I am trying to make the point that different situations would lead to different results. And different situations would lead to obviously better results, because the situations were better. Unlike other sports, baseball is very formulaic, which easily lends itself to things like metrics. Unless you are as dense and sharp as a bowling ball, you can easily move players to different situations and determine whether the situation would provide the player with a greater or lesser chance of success. And then you can extrapolate from there. I mean, seriously. Is it seriously your position that Adley is getting worse pitches with nobody on and one out than nobody on and two out in the first? If he doubled with the junk he was being thrown, what does he do to a better pitch with one out in the first? The problem is that Adley never should have been placed in a position with no one on and two outs. A complete waste of Adley. And in the most important game of the season, Adley was wasted in not one but two different stupid two-out situations. A two out and no one on situation in the first and a second very obvious runner on second and two outs intentional walk situation. That is taking the bat out of Adley's hands in 40% of his plate appearances. In law, that would be malpractice. No one should do that. And I will continue to point out the foolishness of Bailey's lineups until the end of time, because they were categorically stupid. Dense as bowling is thinking that after the first time thru the order there is a way to formulate potential situations for any spot in the lineup! FFS you truly show your lack of actual baseball experience. You have never made out an actual game lineup have you? I mean for an actual season(s) of "real" games, not fictionalized versions where you determine the outcomes. Let us all know... curious. BTW... guess what? Adley batting 2nd in the aforementioned game is up with 2 out, bases empty. Just Wasted! Lol Adding... Pat Bailey's baseball knowledge and actual success vs wilky and his opinions?? Hmmmm
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 9, 2024 11:39:52 GMT -8
So all this arguing over what? Old school thought, 3 hole best hitter.....new school leadoff, more potential AB's. It's that simple Other factors like OBP and speed can factor in a bit......but come on guys, you're......
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