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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 16, 2024 17:30:15 GMT -8
Oregon State spends more on the basketball program than Wazzu by about 7%, but that was not true prior to Tinkle's extension and raise after the 2020-21 season. Wazzu was spending more on the basketball team back then. Some people on here seem to forget that Tinkle and his staff agreed to forego part of their salary for the 2020-21 season. The extension and raise was, in part, an opportunity to pay Tinkle and his staff back. Beasley is bigger, newer, and has been refurbished more recently than Gill. Oregon State added the Sports Performance Center, which is probably nicer and newer than Bohler at Wazzu. Pick your poison about facilities. Pat Casey was in a hole, when he started. He had to fundraise to fix Coleman Field (which had holes and mounds throughout). Then, he had to fundraise to build Goss Stadium. Then, he had to fundraise to add lights. Casey's first recruiting class after adding lights were the juniors on the 2005 College World Series. Snowballed from there. Baseball and basketball are hardly comparable, though, at the college level. As for Wayne, he rebuilt Oregon State into a Tournament team, then he rebuilt Oregon State into an Elite team. He has shown twice that he certainly has the coaching acumen to lead a team deep into the Tournament. He is in the middle of his third rebuild. And you have seen progress year over year over year, since the awful 2021-22 season. People piss and moan that it should be faster with nothing to base that off of. Oregon State is invariably the younger of the two teams on the court each and every game. And the results seem to bear that out. You ask about 10 years, but that presupposes that the situation is identical to the one 10 years ago. 10 years ago, Oregon State was a team in the vaunted Pac-12. Next year, Oregon State is going to be another team in the West Coast Conference. I personally want to see how Tinkle does in the West Coast Conference to see, if it is translating or not. If things are not as good or worse next year, then we start thinking about that buyout. Until then, though, a lot of this talk is just stiff-necked whining pure and simple. Like a snot-nosed seven-year-old, whining "Are we there yet?" from the backseat. No, damnit. We're not there yet. And if I hear anymore whining, we are going to extend Tinkle for another five seasons. That was the definition of condescending. I am trying to decide, are you Scott Barnes, Tinkles agent or a family member or relative. OSU fans who complain about the lousy product that is OSU basketball, being whining overly demanding and impatient is laughable. At just about any other school in the country WT would have been fired by now. What fans still support OSU men's basketball are the most patient fans in sports, you have to be to endure decades of hopeless losing. Multiyear rebuilds in the era of NIL and the portal is a fool's errand, coaches have to rebuild their roster EVERY year as you don't know who is going to be on the roster year to year. The old "were young" excuse has been used by losing coaches and their apologists since they used peach baskets for hoops. No fan base in the country has earned the right to "whin" more than Oregon State men's basketball fans. But don't worry I will make sure I have a handkerchief to whip my nose. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 16, 2024 17:32:05 GMT -8
Oregon State spends more on the basketball program than Wazzu by about 7%, but that was not true prior to Tinkle's extension and raise after the 2020-21 season. Wazzu was spending more on the basketball team back then. Some people on here seem to forget that Tinkle and his staff agreed to forego part of their salary for the 2020-21 season. The extension and raise was, in part, an opportunity to pay Tinkle and his staff back. Beasley is bigger, newer, and has been refurbished more recently than Gill. Oregon State added the Sports Performance Center, which is probably nicer and newer than Bohler at Wazzu. Pick your poison about facilities. Pat Casey was in a hole, when he started. He had to fundraise to fix Coleman Field (which had holes and mounds throughout). Then, he had to fundraise to build Goss Stadium. Then, he had to fundraise to add lights. Casey's first recruiting class after adding lights were the juniors on the 2005 College World Series. Snowballed from there. Baseball and basketball are hardly comparable, though, at the college level. As for Wayne, he rebuilt Oregon State into a Tournament team, then he rebuilt Oregon State into an Elite team. He has shown twice that he certainly has the coaching acumen to lead a team deep into the Tournament. He is in the middle of his third rebuild. And you have seen progress year over year over year, since the awful 2021-22 season. People piss and moan that it should be faster with nothing to base that off of. Oregon State is invariably the younger of the two teams on the court each and every game. And the results seem to bear that out. You ask about 10 years, but that presupposes that the situation is identical to the one 10 years ago. 10 years ago, Oregon State was a team in the vaunted Pac-12. Next year, Oregon State is going to be another team in the West Coast Conference. I personally want to see how Tinkle does in the West Coast Conference to see, if it is translating or not. If things are not as good or worse next year, then we start thinking about that buyout. Until then, though, a lot of this talk is just stiff-necked whining pure and simple. Like a snot-nosed seven-year-old, whining "Are we there yet?" from the backseat. No, damnit. We're not there yet. And if I hear anymore whining, we are going to extend Tinkle for another five seasons. That was the definition of condescending. I am trying to decide, are you Scott Barnes, Tinkles agent or a family member or relative. OSU fans who complain about the lousy product that is OSU basketball, being whining overly demanding and impatient is laughable. At just about any other school in the country WT would have been fired by now. What fans still support OSU men's basketball are the most patient fans in sports, you have to be to endure decades of hopeless losing. Multiyear rebuilds in the era of NIL and the portal is a fool's errand, coaches have to rebuild their roster EVERY year as you don't know who is going to be on the roster year to year. The old "were young" excuse has been used by losing coaches and their apologists since they used peach baskets for hoops. No fan base in the country has earned the right to "whin" more than Oregon State men's basketball fans. But don't worry I will make sure I have a handkerchief to whip my nose. Paragraphs are your friend. Not being condescending. It just makes it so much easier to read the point you are trying to make. |
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Post by beavdowg on Mar 17, 2024 8:36:11 GMT -8
I agree with FridayNights. If you can’t build a program in 10 years it’s just simply not going to happen. There’s a difference between building a consistent winning program and having a couple good years out of 10. I don’t think most fans are expecting conference championships and deep NCAA runs but finishing in the top half of the conference every year and making the dance most iyears is a reasonable expectation and would be light years better than what we’ve had for the last 30 years. However, as many have already commented, this takes a financial commitment and a true commitment to being a winner, both of which are mutually dependent on each other. Clearly, OSU does not value and hasn’t valued the bball program for a long, long time. In my opinion, Tinkle is a good dude but he’s just simply not the recruiter and program builder that OSU needs. Again, after 10 years, 10 years!, this should be abundantly clear by now.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 17, 2024 9:35:31 GMT -8
I agree with FridayNights. If you can’t build a program in 10 years it’s just simply not going to happen. There’s a difference between building a consistent winning program and having a couple good years out of 10. I don’t think most fans are expecting conference championships and deep NCAA runs but finishing in the top half of the conference every year and making the dance most iyears is a reasonable expectation and would be light years better than what we’ve had for the last 30 years. However, as many have already commented, this takes a financial commitment and a true commitment to being a winner, both of which are mutually dependent on each other. Clearly, OSU does not value and hasn’t valued the bball program for a long, long time. In my opinion, Tinkle is a good dude but he’s just simply not the recruiter and program builder that OSU needs. Again, after 10 years, 10 years!, this should be abundantly clear by now. Again, the evidence clearly shows otherwise. * We built a tremendous practice facility, which ranks with any in the country. * The coliseum has received tens of millions of dollars in upgrades to almost every aspect of the building, from locker rooms to scoreboards to video boards to the lobby-entrance plaza to the concession areas to new lighting and new seating throughout the arena. * We have made numerous coaching changes (Payne, McKay, John, Robinson, Tinkle) in an attempt to find the right guy. Every single AD in the last 30 years (and I have known them all, to varying degrees) has agonized about our consistent lack of basketball success and has made a move or two in an attempt to change the results. * Our coach ranks in the top half of compensation. In fact, many on here think he makes TOO MUCH money. * Why have we struggled? I truly don't know. But a lack of investment or commitment isn't the reason. Not even close. |
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 17, 2024 10:30:11 GMT -8
I agree with FridayNights. If you can’t build a program in 10 years it’s just simply not going to happen. There’s a difference between building a consistent winning program and having a couple good years out of 10. I don’t think most fans are expecting conference championships and deep NCAA runs but finishing in the top half of the conference every year and making the dance most iyears is a reasonable expectation and would be light years better than what we’ve had for the last 30 years. However, as many have already commented, this takes a financial commitment and a true commitment to being a winner, both of which are mutually dependent on each other. Clearly, OSU does not value and hasn’t valued the bball program for a long, long time. In my opinion, Tinkle is a good dude but he’s just simply not the recruiter and program builder that OSU needs. Again, after 10 years, 10 years!, this should be abundantly clear by now. Again, the evidence clearly shows otherwise. * We built a tremendous practice facility, which ranks with any in the country. * The coliseum has received tens of millions of dollars in upgrades to almost every aspect of the building, from locker rooms to scoreboards to video boards to the lobby-entrance plaza to the concession areas to new lighting and new seating throughout the arena. * We have made numerous coaching changes (Payne, McKay, John, Robinson, Tinkle) in an attempt to find the right guy. Every single AD in the last 30 years (and I have known them all, to varying degrees) has agonized about our consistent lack of basketball success and has made a move or two in an attempt to change the results. * Our coach ranks in the top half of compensation. In fact, many on here think he makes TOO MUCH money. * Why have we struggled? I truly don't know. But a lack of investment or commitment isn't the reason. Not even close. Come on... facts!? Don't take away one of the key excuses for accepting a sub-mediocre program. |
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Post by ag87 on Mar 17, 2024 11:22:57 GMT -8
In the past, we did not invest in basketball. But that has changed with the practice facility (and now the coaching salaries). Tinkle has been the most successful hire, but there are clearly better guys out there. Unfortunately, it's not clear who will succeed and who will not.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 17, 2024 11:53:05 GMT -8
In the past, we did not invest in basketball. But that has changed with the practice facility (and now the coaching salaries). Tinkle has been the most successful hire, but there are clearly better guys out there. Unfortunately, it's not clear who will succeed and who will not. There's always better coaches out there, but that last sentence of yours is paramount. Add to that OSU's history of bottom of the P5 barrel recruiting budgets, and the odds are stacked against even the "better" coaches. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 17, 2024 14:43:42 GMT -8
I agree with FridayNights. If you can’t build a program in 10 years it’s just simply not going to happen. There’s a difference between building a consistent winning program and having a couple good years out of 10. I don’t think most fans are expecting conference championships and deep NCAA runs but finishing in the top half of the conference every year and making the dance most iyears is a reasonable expectation and would be light years better than what we’ve had for the last 30 years. However, as many have already commented, this takes a financial commitment and a true commitment to being a winner, both of which are mutually dependent on each other. Clearly, OSU does not value and hasn’t valued the bball program for a long, long time. In my opinion, Tinkle is a good dude but he’s just simply not the recruiter and program builder that OSU needs. Again, after 10 years, 10 years!, this should be abundantly clear by now. Built two different teams. Built the first one in 2015-16 and the second one in 2020-21. Terrible season in 2021-22. Building a new one since. So far, the long game has been the right play with Tinkle. He has not let me down yet. Finishing in the top half of the conference every year is completely unreasonable. Making the dance most years is even more wildly unreasonable. I remain unconvinced of your position and disagree. Further, with the change into the West Coast Conference next year, now is absolutely not the time to completely upset the applecart. If this team stays together, I am personally excited to see what Oregon State can do in the West Coast Conference. If there is not another great leap forward by the end of next year, it is probably time to start looking elsewhere. Until then, Tinkle's the guy. Go Beavs! |
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 17, 2024 14:57:02 GMT -8
Lol... all these folks were also excited to see what would happen it '23-24 season. Remember? You know young team all played a ton of minutes of Pac12 ball, most of the scoring etc returning... blah blah blah.
Guess what? Yeah... same excuses with new ones added. New conference... perfect time to upset the "rotten" cart of fruit. Fresh start with fresh leadership.
Of course if any players exit it'll be because of the Pac12 implosion and not the HC and pathetic record. Different tunes always being added to that same crap "band".
Can't wait for all the deniers. Any actual measurable success (as there hasn't been ANY in three seasons despite the bias opinions) in the 11th rated conference will now mean WT has "rebuilt" his own program the 3rd time at twice the cost of the typical WCC staffing. Hence, the "in over his head" over the past few years will play out as true!
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Post by beaverinohio on Mar 17, 2024 16:15:37 GMT -8
Lol... all these folks were also excited to see what would happen it '23-24 season. Remember? You know young team all played a ton of minutes of Pac12 ball, most of the scoring etc returning... blah blah blah. Guess what? Yeah... same excuses with new ones added. New conference... perfect time to upset the "rotten" cart of fruit. Fresh start with fresh leadership. Of course if any players exit it'll be because of the Pac12 implosion and not the HC and pathetic record. Different tunes always being added to that same crap "band". Can't wait for all the deniers. Any actual measurable success (as there hasn't been ANY in three seasons despite the bias opinions) in the 11th rated conference will now mean WT has "rebuilt" his own program the 3rd time at twice the cost of the typical WCC staffing. Hence, the "in over his head" over the past few years will play out as true! 11-7 baby. I have it on good authority achieving anything less in WCC is a laughable job by the coach. |
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Post by beavdowg on Mar 18, 2024 12:29:11 GMT -8
I agree with FridayNights. If you can’t build a program in 10 years it’s just simply not going to happen. There’s a difference between building a consistent winning program and having a couple good years out of 10. I don’t think most fans are expecting conference championships and deep NCAA runs but finishing in the top half of the conference every year and making the dance most iyears is a reasonable expectation and would be light years better than what we’ve had for the last 30 years. However, as many have already commented, this takes a financial commitment and a true commitment to being a winner, both of which are mutually dependent on each other. Clearly, OSU does not value and hasn’t valued the bball program for a long, long time. In my opinion, Tinkle is a good dude but he’s just simply not the recruiter and program builder that OSU needs. Again, after 10 years, 10 years!, this should be abundantly clear by now. Again, the evidence clearly shows otherwise. * We built a tremendous practice facility, which ranks with any in the country. * The coliseum has received tens of millions of dollars in upgrades to almost every aspect of the building, from locker rooms to scoreboards to video boards to the lobby-entrance plaza to the concession areas to new lighting and new seating throughout the arena. * We have made numerous coaching changes (Payne, McKay, John, Robinson, Tinkle) in an attempt to find the right guy. Every single AD in the last 30 years (and I have known them all, to varying degrees) has agonized about our consistent lack of basketball success and has made a move or two in an attempt to change the results. * Our coach ranks in the top half of compensation. In fact, many on here think he makes TOO MUCH money. * Why have we struggled? I truly don't know. But a lack of investment or commitment isn't the reason. Not even close. I guess we can agree to disagree then. Yes, they've made facility improvements but that hasn't helped. I can't remember OSU doing what it takes to get a hot coaching prospect. I'm not talking about someone that we "think" might be a diamond in the rough, I'm talking about someone that has proven success, one that has taken his teams to the dance multiple times. I'm thinking of someone like Sprinkle. As we all know this takes money and I get we're not flush with that. Perhaps all the money spent on Gill would of been better spent on a quality, proven coach. Then, the winning takes care of the rest because the money will flow to a consistent winning program. Look at it this way, for the sake of your argument you're stating we've invested in facilities. Ok, that didn't work. We made numerous coaching changes. Ok, that didn't work. I argue that it's because we didn't go after the right kind of coach. We were always going on the cheap and hoping to find a diamond in the rough. Well, it hasn't worked. Yes, there's diamonds to be found but for every diamond coach there's 10 that we thought would be it. I don't believe that OSU bball is cursed. That's just absurd. My point is this. We've tried everything else EXCEPT investing in a proven seasoned or young coach. It's time to stop f'in around and spend the money on the coach. Show the commitment. Not by overpaying someone that hasn't proven themselves yet, i.e. Tinkle but getting a Sprinkle. |
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Post by beavdowg on Mar 18, 2024 12:35:12 GMT -8
I agree with FridayNights. If you can’t build a program in 10 years it’s just simply not going to happen. There’s a difference between building a consistent winning program and having a couple good years out of 10. I don’t think most fans are expecting conference championships and deep NCAA runs but finishing in the top half of the conference every year and making the dance most iyears is a reasonable expectation and would be light years better than what we’ve had for the last 30 years. However, as many have already commented, this takes a financial commitment and a true commitment to being a winner, both of which are mutually dependent on each other. Clearly, OSU does not value and hasn’t valued the bball program for a long, long time. In my opinion, Tinkle is a good dude but he’s just simply not the recruiter and program builder that OSU needs. Again, after 10 years, 10 years!, this should be abundantly clear by now. Built two different teams. Built the first one in 2015-16 and the second one in 2020-21. Terrible season in 2021-22. Building a new one since. So far, the long game has been the right play with Tinkle. He has not let me down yet. Finishing in the top half of the conference every year is completely unreasonable. Making the dance most years is even more wildly unreasonable. I remain unconvinced of your position and disagree. Further, with the change into the West Coast Conference next year, now is absolutely not the time to completely upset the applecart. If this team stays together, I am personally excited to see what Oregon State can do in the West Coast Conference. If there is not another great leap forward by the end of next year, it is probably time to start looking elsewhere. Until then, Tinkle's the guy. Go Beavs! Ok, Wilky, I'll give you a year in the WCC. Just so we both agree, though, dropping down a level of competition (with the exception of the 2 or 3 in the WCC that'll probably beat us anyway) isn't really a good gauge that Tinkle has now turned it around. Those 2 good seasons you mentioned were awesome, no doubt, but 2 good seasons out of 10 with 8 other stinkers and at least 2 of those 8 really, really bad, just doesn't show that he's building a program. It doesn't take 10 years to build a D1 bball program. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 18, 2024 13:42:03 GMT -8
Again, the evidence clearly shows otherwise. * We built a tremendous practice facility, which ranks with any in the country. * The coliseum has received tens of millions of dollars in upgrades to almost every aspect of the building, from locker rooms to scoreboards to video boards to the lobby-entrance plaza to the concession areas to new lighting and new seating throughout the arena. * We have made numerous coaching changes (Payne, McKay, John, Robinson, Tinkle) in an attempt to find the right guy. Every single AD in the last 30 years (and I have known them all, to varying degrees) has agonized about our consistent lack of basketball success and has made a move or two in an attempt to change the results. * Our coach ranks in the top half of compensation. In fact, many on here think he makes TOO MUCH money. * Why have we struggled? I truly don't know. But a lack of investment or commitment isn't the reason. Not even close. I guess we can agree to disagree then. Yes, they've made facility improvements but that hasn't helped. I can't remember OSU doing what it takes to get a hot coaching prospect. I'm not talking about someone that we "think" might be a diamond in the rough, I'm talking about someone that has proven success, one that has taken his teams to the dance multiple times. I'm thinking of someone like Sprinkle. As we all know this takes money and I get we're not flush with that. Perhaps all the money spent on Gill would of been better spent on a quality, proven coach. Then, the winning takes care of the rest because the money will flow to a consistent winning program. Look at it this way, for the sake of your argument you're stating we've invested in facilities. Ok, that didn't work. We made numerous coaching changes. Ok, that didn't work. I argue that it's because we didn't go after the right kind of coach. We were always going on the cheap and hoping to find a diamond in the rough. Well, it hasn't worked. Yes, there's diamonds to be found but for every diamond coach there's 10 that we thought would be it. I don't believe that OSU bball is cursed. That's just absurd. My point is this. We've tried everything else EXCEPT investing in a proven seasoned or young coach. It's time to stop f'in around and spend the money on the coach. Show the commitment. Not by overpaying someone that hasn't proven themselves yet, i.e. Tinkle but getting a Sprinkle. Just curious, do you realize that Tinkle had a longer and better conference record in the Big Sky than Sprinkle and had taken Montana to the dance three of the four seasons prior to his hire here? I agree with you on the rest of your sentiment. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 18, 2024 15:25:18 GMT -8
Built two different teams. Built the first one in 2015-16 and the second one in 2020-21. Terrible season in 2021-22. Building a new one since. So far, the long game has been the right play with Tinkle. He has not let me down yet. Finishing in the top half of the conference every year is completely unreasonable. Making the dance most years is even more wildly unreasonable. I remain unconvinced of your position and disagree. Further, with the change into the West Coast Conference next year, now is absolutely not the time to completely upset the applecart. If this team stays together, I am personally excited to see what Oregon State can do in the West Coast Conference. If there is not another great leap forward by the end of next year, it is probably time to start looking elsewhere. Until then, Tinkle's the guy. Go Beavs! Ok, Wilky, I'll give you a year in the WCC. Just so we both agree, though, dropping down a level of competition (with the exception of the 2 or 3 in the WCC that'll probably beat us anyway) isn't really a good gauge that Tinkle has now turned it around. Those 2 good seasons you mentioned were awesome, no doubt, but 2 good seasons out of 10 with 8 other stinkers and at least 2 of those 8 really, really bad, just doesn't show that he's building a program. It doesn't take 10 years to build a D1 bball program. I disagree with your assessment of the seasons. There are not eight stinkers there. There are four stinkers there. Four just awful seasons. One meh season. Three above average (for Oregon State). One excellent season. And one once in a lifetime season. More good than bad, season by season. But the last three seasons have been very deflating after the first seven. It does not take 10 seasons to build a D1 basketball program. It takes seven. Oregon State won the Pac-12 and went to the Elite Eight in seven seasons. And then the bottom fell out. Two seasons of very slow growth since. It gets to be like a discussion about recovering from a recession or high levels of inflation. There has been progress, but has it been enough progress to warrant more time in charge? Some say, "Yes, absolutely." And others ask, "Are you high?" As for level of competition, Oregon State was at or near the bottom of the Pac-12 in program support. Moving to the West Coast Conference provides Oregon State the opportunity to be a big fish in a little pond instead of the minnow in the giant pond that the Beavs were for the last 30+ years. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 18, 2024 16:43:41 GMT -8
Ok, Wilky, I'll give you a year in the WCC. Just so we both agree, though, dropping down a level of competition (with the exception of the 2 or 3 in the WCC that'll probably beat us anyway) isn't really a good gauge that Tinkle has now turned it around. Those 2 good seasons you mentioned were awesome, no doubt, but 2 good seasons out of 10 with 8 other stinkers and at least 2 of those 8 really, really bad, just doesn't show that he's building a program. It doesn't take 10 years to build a D1 bball program. I disagree with your assessment of the seasons. There are not eight stinkers there. There are four stinkers there. Four just awful seasons. One meh season. Three above average (for Oregon State). One excellent season. And one once in a lifetime season. More good than bad, season by season. But the last three seasons have been very deflating after the first seven. It does not take 10 seasons to build a D1 basketball program. It takes seven. Oregon State won the Pac-12 and went to the Elite Eight in seven seasons. And then the bottom fell out. Two seasons of very slow growth since. It gets to be like a discussion about recovering from a recession or high levels of inflation. There has been progress, but has it been enough progress to warrant more time in charge? Some say, "Yes, absolutely." And others ask, "Are you high?" As for level of competition, Oregon State was at or near the bottom of the Pac-12 in program support. Moving to the West Coast Conference provides Oregon State the opportunity to be a big fish in a little pond instead of the minnow in the giant pond that the Beavs were for the last 30+ years. The problem is that Gonzaga is one big ass fish. |
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