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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 30, 2023 22:40:08 GMT -8
All that I have gotten from this is that Smitty is a Vulcan in disguise.
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Dec 1, 2023 4:27:06 GMT -8
Smith went from the path to St, Johnathon, all the way to Noner in about 3 days. Quite a feat. Doubt he even cares.
Go Beavs!!
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Post by irimi on Dec 1, 2023 6:21:40 GMT -8
All that I have gotten from this is that Smitty is a Vulcan in disguise. I was going to say Romulan. |
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Post by irimi on Dec 1, 2023 6:36:31 GMT -8
Smith went from the path to St, Johnathon, all the way to Noner in about 3 days. Quite a feat. Doubt he even cares. Go Beavs!! Of course he doesn't care. Why should he? Fans overreact. They take everything personally. No one loves the program as much as the fans. Players are temporary; coaches are temporary; but fans generally are lifers.
Players always feel abandoned when a coach leaves. He can't control that.
He's sitting in Michigan knowing that he made the right choice for himself and his family. And he knows that his legacy is secure at OSU. Right now, emotions are high, but ten years from now, he'll be remembered as a the former QB that turned the program around.
What should he care about? That we felt slighted? |
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 1, 2023 10:23:57 GMT -8
Smith went from the path to St, Johnathon, all the way to Noner in about 3 days. Quite a feat. Doubt he even cares. Go Beavs!! Of course he doesn't care. Why should he? Fans overreact. They take everything personally. No one loves the program as much as the fans. Players are temporary; coaches are temporary; but fans generally are lifers.
Players always feel abandoned when a coach leaves. He can't control that.
He's sitting in Michigan knowing that he made the right choice for himself and his family. And he knows that his legacy is secure at OSU. Right now, emotions are high, but ten years from now, he'll be remembered as a the former QB that turned the program around.
What should he care about? That we felt slighted? I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the predicament that his leaving put the University in, if not the school then certainly many of his former colleagues/coworkers. I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the final Civil War game, if nothing else in a "I wish it hadn't gone down like that" kind of way, because in my mind he was making somewhat of a panic move that he felt he was forced to make given the situation at Oregon State, lack of a conference, massive uncertainty etc. Also knowing that there is a rebuilding year on the horizon, and maybe during the fall recruiting process he realized that the transfer portal is no longer a viable shopping center for OSU since they are College Football's Great Unwashed. I find it hard to believe that Bray could have a crisis of conscience that guided him to stay at OSU and that Smith would have absolutely none. I think there was plenty of conflicting emotion, but again I think he saw his entire career trajectory being altered by what happened with the Pac12 and he did the exact same thing as the Arizona Schools, Utah, Colorado, Oregon and Washington did. He was afraid he was on a sinking ship and jumped in a lifeboat. And that's entirely understandable. But it is NOT admirable. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 1, 2023 12:48:49 GMT -8
Of course he doesn't care. Why should he? Fans overreact. They take everything personally. No one loves the program as much as the fans. Players are temporary; coaches are temporary; but fans generally are lifers.
Players always feel abandoned when a coach leaves. He can't control that.
He's sitting in Michigan knowing that he made the right choice for himself and his family. And he knows that his legacy is secure at OSU. Right now, emotions are high, but ten years from now, he'll be remembered as a the former QB that turned the program around.
What should he care about? That we felt slighted? I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the predicament that his leaving put the University in, if not the school then certainly many of his former colleagues/coworkers. I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the final Civil War game, if nothing else in a "I wish it hadn't gone down like that" kind of way, because in my mind he was making somewhat of a panic move that he felt he was forced to make given the situation at Oregon State, lack of a conference, massive uncertainty etc. Also knowing that there is a rebuilding year on the horizon, and maybe during the fall recruiting process he realized that the transfer portal is no longer a viable shopping center for OSU since they are College Football's Great Unwashed. I find it hard to believe that Bray could have a crisis of conscience that guided him to stay at OSU and that Smith would have absolutely none. I think there was plenty of conflicting emotion, but again I think he saw his entire career trajectory being altered by what happened with the Pac12 and he did the exact same thing as the Arizona Schools, Utah, Colorado, Oregon and Washington did. He was afraid he was on a sinking ship and jumped in a lifeboat. And that's entirely understandable. But it is NOT admirable. Any man that makes the best possible decision that he knows to make for his family is admirable. Dude is making a decision to know that he can basically count on $50.75 million. He and his family will be taken care of for years to come. That is all admirable. I would like to think that I am. Maybe I'm not. A lot of us are all viewing this with orange-colored glasses right now. And I think that that ignores the fact that Smitty is just a dude who played here for four years. He owes us squat. And he has done far more good for Oregon State, while he was here than he has done harm. And it ignores the fact that his decision has given Trent Bray and guys like Gunderson a tremendous opportunity. Personally, three of my past five firms have imploded, while I was there or shortly thereafter. Should I have gone down with the ship? Or should I make what I believe is the best decision for myself and my family? Am I not admirable? I am thinking of that Impression that I Get song from Clueless: I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested. I'd like to think that if I was I would pass. Look at the tested and think "There but for the grace go I." Might be a coward; I'm afraid of what I might find out. If we take off our orange-colored glasses, I think pretty much all of us make the decision that Smitty makes. And just because I like the gif:  Let's all give this a couple of years to marinate and come back and make our judgments. None of us makes 100% perfect decisions 100% of the time. Maybe this is a colossal blunder. Maybe it's not. We'll see. |
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Post by irimi on Dec 1, 2023 12:52:36 GMT -8
Of course he doesn't care. Why should he? Fans overreact. They take everything personally. No one loves the program as much as the fans. Players are temporary; coaches are temporary; but fans generally are lifers.
Players always feel abandoned when a coach leaves. He can't control that.
He's sitting in Michigan knowing that he made the right choice for himself and his family. And he knows that his legacy is secure at OSU. Right now, emotions are high, but ten years from now, he'll be remembered as a the former QB that turned the program around.
What should he care about? That we felt slighted? I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the predicament that his leaving put the University in, if not the school then certainly many of his former colleagues/coworkers. I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the final Civil War game, if nothing else in a "I wish it hadn't gone down like that" kind of way, because in my mind he was making somewhat of a panic move that he felt he was forced to make given the situation at Oregon State, lack of a conference, massive uncertainty etc. Also knowing that there is a rebuilding year on the horizon, and maybe during the fall recruiting process he realized that the transfer portal is no longer a viable shopping center for OSU since they are College Football's Great Unwashed. I find it hard to believe that Bray could have a crisis of conscience that guided him to stay at OSU and that Smith would have absolutely none. I think there was plenty of conflicting emotion, but again I think he saw his entire career trajectory being altered by what happened with the Pac12 and he did the exact same thing as the Arizona Schools, Utah, Colorado, Oregon and Washington did. He was afraid he was on a sinking ship and jumped in a lifeboat. And that's entirely understandable. But it is NOT admirable. I think he probably doesn't. I'm sure he took the coaches with him that he could, thereby securing their future too. And we'll see if any players follow him.
I hope he feels bad about the CW too. It was unforgivable. But I don't think he has processed that yet. It's buried deep in his mind while he focuses on getting MSU up and running.
I know that Bray said exactly what we wanted to hear, but I suspect there was more behind it than simple naive desire to help OSU through this. As I see it, he had a very good chance at getting the HC job here while finding one elsewhere would require probably signing on to a lower division school and doing well there. Here, he has a chance to take over a winning program. He has a chance to be a hero. He has a chance to make a few million dollars each year. (Somebody good at math can help me figure out what kind of an increase that is for him, not the simple 6% COLA that the rest of us might see...or not.) I'm sure all of that was a factor in his taking over the HC job. Plus, the desire to do right by OSU.
I'm not defending JS. I really hate how he treated the CW. But I think he knows that in 5 to 10 years, that will all be water under the bridge and Corvallis will continue to love him as the great player and coach that he was.
I honestly think that I could have forgiven him faster if he had left earlier in the year. Or if he had just given the keys to someone else in the program to see it through the year. Quitting on the team was an asshole move.
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Post by lebaneaver on Dec 1, 2023 13:25:42 GMT -8
Fjs. And Ftd.
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Post by hottubbeaver on Dec 1, 2023 13:44:03 GMT -8
The ironic thing is, our CW victory and how it occurred last year left a scar on them. It played no small part in their decision to get UW on the phone and convince them to join together in stabbing the remaining members in the back and left us and WSU without a conference. Let's not lose sight of who the real enemies and traitors are here. To do so, lets them off the hook and gives them another win. They killed several enemies with one shot and now we are going to give them another kill by eating our own instead of directing our anger at them. F that and screw them!!! |
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Post by atownbeaver on Dec 1, 2023 15:18:45 GMT -8
I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the predicament that his leaving put the University in, if not the school then certainly many of his former colleagues/coworkers. I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the final Civil War game, if nothing else in a "I wish it hadn't gone down like that" kind of way, because in my mind he was making somewhat of a panic move that he felt he was forced to make given the situation at Oregon State, lack of a conference, massive uncertainty etc. Also knowing that there is a rebuilding year on the horizon, and maybe during the fall recruiting process he realized that the transfer portal is no longer a viable shopping center for OSU since they are College Football's Great Unwashed. I find it hard to believe that Bray could have a crisis of conscience that guided him to stay at OSU and that Smith would have absolutely none. I think there was plenty of conflicting emotion, but again I think he saw his entire career trajectory being altered by what happened with the Pac12 and he did the exact same thing as the Arizona Schools, Utah, Colorado, Oregon and Washington did. He was afraid he was on a sinking ship and jumped in a lifeboat. And that's entirely understandable. But it is NOT admirable. Any man that makes the best possible decision that he knows to make for his family is admirable. Dude is making a decision to know that he can basically count on $50.75 million. He and his family will be taken care of for years to come. That is all admirable. I would like to think that I am. Maybe I'm not. A lot of us are all viewing this with orange-colored glasses right now. And I think that that ignores the fact that Smitty is just a dude who played here for four years. He owes us squat. And he has done far more good for Oregon State, while he was here than he has done harm. And it ignores the fact that his decision has given Trent Bray and guys like Gunderson a tremendous opportunity. Personally, three of my past five firms have imploded, while I was there or shortly thereafter. Should I have gone down with the ship? Or should I make what I believe is the best decision for myself and my family? Am I not admirable? I am thinking of that Impression that I Get song from Clueless: I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested. I'd like to think that if I was I would pass. Look at the tested and think "There but for the grace go I." Might be a coward; I'm afraid of what I might find out. If we take off our orange-colored glasses, I think pretty much all of us make the decision that Smitty makes. First, Mighty Mighty Bosstones are the GOAT ska band of our time. I probably still have hearing damage from a Bosstone's/Flogging Molly double header I went to like 20 years ago now. That said, I circle back to ordinary versus extraordinary. I agree it is admirable to do what is best for your family, particularly in uncertain times. But these measures change with circumstance and I think a flaw in our current society is not properly recognizing people in their positions of privilege and applying the same standards as the rest of us. Smith was guaranteed a little over $30M for the next six year to stay at OSU, that is on top of the many millions he already earned at OSU. Smith, not being a stupid person, undoubtedly has already secured generational wealth for his family. He was a man in a rare place of privilege to not HAVE to think of his family and himself. He had, effectively secured his nut. I simply cannot applaud a man that left $30M to take $50M. yes, we would ALL do it. All that does is make him ordinary. Our beef is that a man in a position of privilege, who's family and financial future is already secured by all reasonable accounts did not choose to do the extraordinary thing and lead his alma mater through a troubling time. Is it fair that we expect those that can... should? is it fair that society expects of that those are granted much, much is expected? that is the heart of this debate. Smith did what we all would do. That is not something to applaud. We don't tend to congratulate the mundane in our society. I applaud Bray. A man that certainly could of been paid close to $2M by Smith to be a DC at MSU. a guy that had all the offers in the world to DC at their schools, took on a tough job in a desperate time. A guy that unlike Smith, had not yet really made his nut in terms of that generational wealth... a guy you couldn't blame to be truly in a position to look after their family. Smith wasn't admirable. Bray was. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 1, 2023 15:33:41 GMT -8
Any man that makes the best possible decision that he knows to make for his family is admirable. Dude is making a decision to know that he can basically count on $50.75 million. He and his family will be taken care of for years to come. That is all admirable. I would like to think that I am. Maybe I'm not. A lot of us are all viewing this with orange-colored glasses right now. And I think that that ignores the fact that Smitty is just a dude who played here for four years. He owes us squat. And he has done far more good for Oregon State, while he was here than he has done harm. And it ignores the fact that his decision has given Trent Bray and guys like Gunderson a tremendous opportunity. Personally, three of my past five firms have imploded, while I was there or shortly thereafter. Should I have gone down with the ship? Or should I make what I believe is the best decision for myself and my family? Am I not admirable? I am thinking of that Impression that I Get song from Clueless: I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested. I'd like to think that if I was I would pass. Look at the tested and think "There but for the grace go I." Might be a coward; I'm afraid of what I might find out. If we take off our orange-colored glasses, I think pretty much all of us make the decision that Smitty makes. First, Mighty Mighty Bosstones are the GOAT ska band of our time. I probably still have hearing damage from a Bosstone's/Flogging Molly double header I went to like 20 years ago now. That said, I circle back to ordinary versus extraordinary. I agree it is admirable to do what is best for your family, particularly in uncertain times. But these measures change with circumstance and I think a flaw in our current society is not properly recognizing people in their positions of privilege and applying the same standards as the rest of us. Smith was guaranteed a little over $30M for the next six year to stay at OSU, that is on top of the many millions he already earned at OSU. Smith, not being a stupid person, undoubtedly has already secured generational wealth for his family. He was a man in a rare place of privilege to not HAVE to think of his family and himself. He had, effectively secured his nut. I simply cannot applaud a man that left $30M to take $50M. yes, we would ALL do it. All that does is make him ordinary. Our beef is that a man in a position of privilege, who's family and financial future is already secured by all reasonable accounts did not choose to do the extraordinary thing and lead his alma mater through a troubling time. Is it fair that we expect those that can... should? is it fair that society expects of that those are granted much, much is expected? that is the heart of this debate. Smith did what we all would do. That is not something to applaud. We don't tend to congratulate the mundane in our society. I applaud Bray. A man that certainly could of been paid close to $2M by Smith to be a DC at MSU. a guy that had all the offers in the world to DC at their schools, took on a tough job in a desperate time. A guy that unlike Smith, had not yet really made his nut in terms of that generational wealth... a guy you couldn't blame to be truly in a position to look after their family. Smith wasn't admirable. Bray was. Privilege? What a word to utilize to describe Smitty! Dude is the son of an accountant and a teacher. Dude is too privileged to apply a normal objective framework to, I suppose. Yuck! Is there a better way to describe what you are attempting to without utilizing that word? I would posit that what you describe as "mundane" is not in fact "mundane" and so should be applauded. But I suppose that we probably view much differently from our different chairs. One of my first CDs was The Mighty, Mighty Bosstones. Good band. Very '90s. And one of my first concerts was Flogging Molly. A great band. |
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 1, 2023 17:20:30 GMT -8
First, Mighty Mighty Bosstones are the GOAT ska band of our time. I probably still have hearing damage from a Bosstone's/Flogging Molly double header I went to like 20 years ago now. That said, I circle back to ordinary versus extraordinary. I agree it is admirable to do what is best for your family, particularly in uncertain times. But these measures change with circumstance and I think a flaw in our current society is not properly recognizing people in their positions of privilege and applying the same standards as the rest of us. Smith was guaranteed a little over $30M for the next six year to stay at OSU, that is on top of the many millions he already earned at OSU. Smith, not being a stupid person, undoubtedly has already secured generational wealth for his family. He was a man in a rare place of privilege to not HAVE to think of his family and himself. He had, effectively secured his nut. I simply cannot applaud a man that left $30M to take $50M. yes, we would ALL do it. All that does is make him ordinary. Our beef is that a man in a position of privilege, who's family and financial future is already secured by all reasonable accounts did not choose to do the extraordinary thing and lead his alma mater through a troubling time. Is it fair that we expect those that can... should? is it fair that society expects of that those are granted much, much is expected? that is the heart of this debate. Smith did what we all would do. That is not something to applaud. We don't tend to congratulate the mundane in our society. I applaud Bray. A man that certainly could of been paid close to $2M by Smith to be a DC at MSU. a guy that had all the offers in the world to DC at their schools, took on a tough job in a desperate time. A guy that unlike Smith, had not yet really made his nut in terms of that generational wealth... a guy you couldn't blame to be truly in a position to look after their family. Smith wasn't admirable. Bray was. Privilege? What a word to utilize to describe Smitty! Dude is the son of an accountant and a teacher. Dude is too privileged to apply a normal objective framework to, I suppose. Yuck! Is there a better way to describe what you are attempting to without utilizing that word? I would posit that what you describe as "mundane" is not in fact "mundane" and so should be applauded. But I suppose that we probably view much differently from our different chairs. One of my first CDs was The Mighty, Mighty Bosstones. Good band. Very '90s. And one of my first concerts was Flogging Molly. A great band. ohhhhh I didn't realize that someone's position was determined by their parents, lol. So the son of a single mother and a cuban immigrant who was not his biological father should be solid, then? It's like a Get Out of Jail Free card! |
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 1, 2023 17:23:17 GMT -8
I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the predicament that his leaving put the University in, if not the school then certainly many of his former colleagues/coworkers. I would think that he might feel a little bit bad about the final Civil War game, if nothing else in a "I wish it hadn't gone down like that" kind of way, because in my mind he was making somewhat of a panic move that he felt he was forced to make given the situation at Oregon State, lack of a conference, massive uncertainty etc. Also knowing that there is a rebuilding year on the horizon, and maybe during the fall recruiting process he realized that the transfer portal is no longer a viable shopping center for OSU since they are College Football's Great Unwashed. I find it hard to believe that Bray could have a crisis of conscience that guided him to stay at OSU and that Smith would have absolutely none. I think there was plenty of conflicting emotion, but again I think he saw his entire career trajectory being altered by what happened with the Pac12 and he did the exact same thing as the Arizona Schools, Utah, Colorado, Oregon and Washington did. He was afraid he was on a sinking ship and jumped in a lifeboat. And that's entirely understandable. But it is NOT admirable. Any man that makes the best possible decision that he knows to make for his family is admirable. Dude is making a decision to know that he can basically count on $50.75 million. He and his family will be taken care of for years to come. That is all admirable. I would like to think that I am. Maybe I'm not. A lot of us are all viewing this with orange-colored glasses right now. And I think that that ignores the fact that Smitty is just a dude who played here for four years. He owes us squat. And he has done far more good for Oregon State, while he was here than he has done harm. And it ignores the fact that his decision has given Trent Bray and guys like Gunderson a tremendous opportunity. Personally, three of my past five firms have imploded, while I was there or shortly thereafter. Should I have gone down with the ship? Or should I make what I believe is the best decision for myself and my family? Am I not admirable? I am thinking of that Impression that I Get song from Clueless: I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested. I'd like to think that if I was I would pass. Look at the tested and think "There but for the grace go I." Might be a coward; I'm afraid of what I might find out. If we take off our orange-colored glasses, I think pretty much all of us make the decision that Smitty makes. And just because I like the gif: Let's all give this a couple of years to marinate and come back and make our judgments. None of us makes 100% perfect decisions 100% of the time. Maybe this is a colossal blunder. Maybe it's not. We'll see. Maybe your firms all imploded because one of their attorneys spent all of their time posting novels on a Beaver message board 😆 instead of working. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Dec 1, 2023 18:48:42 GMT -8
First, Mighty Mighty Bosstones are the GOAT ska band of our time. I probably still have hearing damage from a Bosstone's/Flogging Molly double header I went to like 20 years ago now. That said, I circle back to ordinary versus extraordinary. I agree it is admirable to do what is best for your family, particularly in uncertain times. But these measures change with circumstance and I think a flaw in our current society is not properly recognizing people in their positions of privilege and applying the same standards as the rest of us. Smith was guaranteed a little over $30M for the next six year to stay at OSU, that is on top of the many millions he already earned at OSU. Smith, not being a stupid person, undoubtedly has already secured generational wealth for his family. He was a man in a rare place of privilege to not HAVE to think of his family and himself. He had, effectively secured his nut. I simply cannot applaud a man that left $30M to take $50M. yes, we would ALL do it. All that does is make him ordinary. Our beef is that a man in a position of privilege, who's family and financial future is already secured by all reasonable accounts did not choose to do the extraordinary thing and lead his alma mater through a troubling time. Is it fair that we expect those that can... should? is it fair that society expects of that those are granted much, much is expected? that is the heart of this debate. Smith did what we all would do. That is not something to applaud. We don't tend to congratulate the mundane in our society. I applaud Bray. A man that certainly could of been paid close to $2M by Smith to be a DC at MSU. a guy that had all the offers in the world to DC at their schools, took on a tough job in a desperate time. A guy that unlike Smith, had not yet really made his nut in terms of that generational wealth... a guy you couldn't blame to be truly in a position to look after their family. Smith wasn't admirable. Bray was. Privilege? What a word to utilize to describe Smitty! Dude is the son of an accountant and a teacher. Dude is too privileged to apply a normal objective framework to, I suppose. Yuck! Is there a better way to describe what you are attempting to without utilizing that word? I would posit that what you describe as "mundane" is not in fact "mundane" and so should be applauded. But I suppose that we probably view much differently from our different chairs. One of my first CDs was The Mighty, Mighty Bosstones. Good band. Very '90s. And one of my first concerts was Flogging Molly. A great band. Please tell me I don't have to explain why a guy that had already earned ~$12 million (rough napkin math) and was guaranteed a little over $30 million more is holding a position of privilege, unless of course you are looking to defend my thesis that society doesn't evaluate circumstance. I never said he didn't deserve it, I never said he didn't earn it. But Jonathan Smith made a decision from a place of already having a guaranteed (about) $40ish million under his belt. That is privilege anyway you slice it. It would take the average household in Oregon 425 years to earn that much money. MSU is paying him more, paying his assistants more, and is a school of greater resources in a bigger conference. Of course he made the logical and defendable choice. But it was the ordinary and easy choice. It is nothing to celebrate |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 1, 2023 21:02:20 GMT -8
Any man that makes the best possible decision that he knows to make for his family is admirable. Dude is making a decision to know that he can basically count on $50.75 million. He and his family will be taken care of for years to come. That is all admirable. I would like to think that I am. Maybe I'm not. A lot of us are all viewing this with orange-colored glasses right now. And I think that that ignores the fact that Smitty is just a dude who played here for four years. He owes us squat. And he has done far more good for Oregon State, while he was here than he has done harm. And it ignores the fact that his decision has given Trent Bray and guys like Gunderson a tremendous opportunity. Personally, three of my past five firms have imploded, while I was there or shortly thereafter. Should I have gone down with the ship? Or should I make what I believe is the best decision for myself and my family? Am I not admirable? I am thinking of that Impression that I Get song from Clueless: I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested. I'd like to think that if I was I would pass. Look at the tested and think "There but for the grace go I." Might be a coward; I'm afraid of what I might find out. If we take off our orange-colored glasses, I think pretty much all of us make the decision that Smitty makes. And just because I like the gif: Let's all give this a couple of years to marinate and come back and make our judgments. None of us makes 100% perfect decisions 100% of the time. Maybe this is a colossal blunder. Maybe it's not. We'll see. Maybe your firms all imploded because one of their attorneys spent all of their time posting novels on a Beaver message board 😆 instead of working. Could be. Or it could have had something to do with starting law in 2006. Great Recession took down the first two. COVID-19 is probably most at fault for the third. |
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