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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 4, 2023 20:49:22 GMT -8
365 Sports claims to have the Baylor Athletic Director on the phone. Regarding Oregon State and Washington State joining the Big-12, "Have they been in any way shape or form in conversations with the Big 12?" Baylor AD: "No, not right now" Why would OSU and WSU leave before we find out what happens in court. If we both leave all 12 get the money. Maybe the pac-2 stays together for 1 more year and then we can take all the assets and move to big 12. There's probably no leaving until after August 1st of next year without splitting it 12 ways with those who already left. Then, IF they joined another conference they'd probably get sued by the 10 that left. That money is supposed to belong to the PAC, it's probably questionable as to whether or not they can just pack it up and go to another conference with it. |
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Post by castorcanadensis on Oct 4, 2023 20:54:21 GMT -8
Why would OSU and WSU leave before we find out what happens in court. If we both leave all 12 get the money. Maybe the pac-2 stays together for 1 more year and then we can take all the assets and move to big 12. There's probably no leaving until after August 1st of next year without splitting it 12 ways with those who already left. Then, IF they joined another conference they'd probably get sued by the 10 that left. That money is supposed to belong to the PAC, it's probably questionable as to whether or not they can just pack it up and go to another conference with it. Agreed. So we play as a pac-2 next year and summer 2025 we join big-12. Nothing the other 10 can do at that point. So of course the big-12 will say they are done with expansion… we don’t want to give notice until 2025 to avoid what the other 10 did. |
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Post by grayman on Oct 4, 2023 21:12:26 GMT -8
365 Sports claims to have the Baylor Athletic Director on the phone. Regarding Oregon State and Washington State joining the Big-12, "Have they been in any way shape or form in conversations with the Big 12?" Baylor AD: "No, not right now" Why would OSU and WSU leave before we find out what happens in court. If we both leave all 12 get the money. Maybe the pac-2 stays together for 1 more year and then we can take all the assets and move to big 12. There's a lot more here than "no, not right now." Here's the transcript of the Baylor AD's comments. "No, not right now. And I appreciate the question. "Those are two schools that somehow, some way they deserve to remain in a power 5, power 4 conference and I can't speak to the future and when I say future, that could be as soon as six months from now, a year from now. I think right now everybody's kind of hit pause and trying to digest and because we're in the throws of football and when you're in the throws of a football season, it's all hands on deck for everybody. There's been very little conversation about further expansion and certainly there's been no conversation between the Big 12 and those two institutions. "Not saying it won't happen in the future." It's pretty obvious that they are just pushing any more potential decisions until after the football season is over. As someone who is hoping for OSU and WSU to the Big 12, the last sentence is the most important. It means that at the very least the Baylor AD is not giving a definitive no to the possibility. It's also interesting that he acknowledges that OSU and WSU belong in a power conference. Of course, he's definitely being diplomatic no matter what his actual knowledge or opinion is on the matter. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 4, 2023 21:15:20 GMT -8
There's probably no leaving until after August 1st of next year without splitting it 12 ways with those who already left. Then, IF they joined another conference they'd probably get sued by the 10 that left. That money is supposed to belong to the PAC, it's probably questionable as to whether or not they can just pack it up and go to another conference with it. Agreed. So we play as a pac-2 next year and summer 2025 we join big-12. Nothing the other 10 can do at that point. So of course the big-12 will say they are done with expansion… we don’t want to give notice until 2025 to avoid what the other 10 did. They'd probably still sue. Don't know if it'd go anywhere, but they could argue OSU and WSU had no intention of rebuilding the PAC and were just trying to use a loophole... I'd probably agree with them. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 4, 2023 21:35:36 GMT -8
Why would OSU and WSU leave before we find out what happens in court. If we both leave all 12 get the money. Maybe the pac-2 stays together for 1 more year and then we can take all the assets and move to big 12. There's a lot more here than "no, not right now." Here's the transcript of the Baylor AD's comments. "No, not right now. And I appreciate the question. "Those are two schools that somehow, some way they deserve to remain in a power 5, power 4 conference and I can't speak to the future and when I say future, that could be as soon as six months from now, a year from now. I think right now everybody's kind of hit pause and trying to digest and because we're in the throws of football and when you're in the throws of a football season, it's all hands on deck for everybody. There's been very little conversation about further expansion and certainly there's been no conversation between the Big 12 and those two institutions. "Not saying it won't happen in the future." It's pretty obvious that they are just pushing any more potential decisions until after the football season is over. As someone who is hoping for OSU and WSU to the Big 12, the last sentence is the most important. It means that at the very least the Baylor AD is not giving a definitive no to the possibility. It's also interesting that he acknowledges that OSU and WSU belong in a power conference. Of course, he's definitely being diplomatic no matter what his actual knowledge or opinion is on the matter. You say it's obvious they're pushing off decisions until after the season. Frankly, what is obvious is that they cannot do anything until the legal questions are dealt with. There's no reason to talk publicly about private conversations they've had about expansion. How do you know they have not had "private" conversations about expansion? There has been plenty of discussion leaked prior to the lawsuit. There even was discussion that came out just a couple weeks ago about the relegation idea, generated from discussions between the Pac 2 and the MWC. The Monty Show guy says he's hearing the Pac 2 and MWC are working together and will happen in some form when the lawsuits are settled - the difference between that podcast and the "smoke" you were talking about at the start of this thread is, that Monty guy actually hosted a talk show on ESPN for several years and knows a lot of insiders. There's all that, and more importantly, President Murthy has continuously stated the best road forward is to rebuild the PAC. I'll take her word for it. |
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Post by grayman on Oct 4, 2023 21:52:07 GMT -8
There's a lot more here than "no, not right now." Here's the transcript of the Baylor AD's comments. "No, not right now. And I appreciate the question. "Those are two schools that somehow, some way they deserve to remain in a power 5, power 4 conference and I can't speak to the future and when I say future, that could be as soon as six months from now, a year from now. I think right now everybody's kind of hit pause and trying to digest and because we're in the throws of football and when you're in the throws of a football season, it's all hands on deck for everybody. There's been very little conversation about further expansion and certainly there's been no conversation between the Big 12 and those two institutions. "Not saying it won't happen in the future." It's pretty obvious that they are just pushing any more potential decisions until after the football season is over. As someone who is hoping for OSU and WSU to the Big 12, the last sentence is the most important. It means that at the very least the Baylor AD is not giving a definitive no to the possibility. It's also interesting that he acknowledges that OSU and WSU belong in a power conference. Of course, he's definitely being diplomatic no matter what his actual knowledge or opinion is on the matter. You say it's obvious they're pushing off decisions until after the season. Frankly, what is obvious is that they cannot do anything until the legal questions are dealt with. There's no reason to talk publicly about private conversations they've had about expansion. How do you know they have not had "private" conversations about expansion? There has been plenty of discussion leaked prior to the lawsuit. There even was discussion that came out just a couple weeks ago about the relegation idea, generated from discussions between the Pac 2 and the MWC. The Monty Show guy says he's hearing the Pac 2 and MWC are working together and will happen in some form when the lawsuits are settled - the difference between that podcast and the "smoke" you were talking about at the start of this thread is, that Monty guy actually hosted a talk show on ESPN for several years and knows a lot of insiders. There's all that, and more importantly, President Murthy has continuously stated the best road forward is to rebuild the PAC. I'll take her word for it. No, I said "It's pretty obvious that they are just pushing any more potential decisions until after the football season is over." So IF they make any sort of decisions that involve football and other sports, it will be done after football season is over. That's the third time in this thread that you have claimed I have written something in a post that I was able to show was either completely inaccurate on your part or in this case omitting a key part of the sentence. As for the rest of your post, why don't you give the Baylor AD a call. He's the source here. Any discussions between the MWC and the Pac-2 were just to gather information from both sides, which makes perfect sense because the MWC is interested in OSU and WSU for obvious reasons. IMO, Murthy's comments have more to do with the lawsuit. And IF the Big 12 does come calling, it won't be until after the lawsuit is settled. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 4, 2023 22:11:10 GMT -8
My point being, it's waiting for legal clarity that is the hold up, not necessarily waiting until after the season. Once there's either a legal decision or a settlement, then we'll start hearing stuff.
Could be weeks, could be next year, who knows?
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Post by grayman on Oct 4, 2023 22:21:10 GMT -8
My point being, it's waiting for legal clarity that is the hold up, not necessarily waiting until after the season. Once there's either a legal decision or a settlement, then we'll start hearing stuff. Could be weeks, could be next year, who knows? Agreed. |
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Post by castorcanadensis on Oct 5, 2023 6:16:12 GMT -8
The beavers and cougars won’t be joining the big 12… until they do.
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Post by NativeBeav on Oct 5, 2023 9:31:37 GMT -8
Agreed. So we play as a pac-2 next year and summer 2025 we join big-12. Nothing the other 10 can do at that point. So of course the big-12 will say they are done with expansion… we don’t want to give notice until 2025 to avoid what the other 10 did. They'd probably still sue. Don't know if it'd go anywhere, but they could argue OSU and WSU had no intention of rebuilding the PAC and were just trying to use a loophole... I'd probably agree with them. I would gladly take my chances on that lawsuit. Not only is the rule of law being ignored and up for grabs in this country, the traitorous ten would have a helluva time in the court of public opinion. It would be like getting a divorce from your wife, before you really thought it through and realized you made a mistake, then after you hear she is getting remarried with the assets you willingly lost/ gave up - now you are going to sue?
It isn't like the rules or the assets were hidden from the traitors, they just chose to ignore them. I sincerely doubt any of the traitors consulted their legal teams about remaining assets, and how to access them, before they bailed - their entire focus was the shiny new trophy wife, not the wife they left behind. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 5, 2023 10:10:09 GMT -8
They'd probably still sue. Don't know if it'd go anywhere, but they could argue OSU and WSU had no intention of rebuilding the PAC and were just trying to use a loophole... I'd probably agree with them. I would gladly take my chances on that lawsuit. Not only is the rule of law being ignored and up for grabs in this country, the traitorous ten would have a helluva time in the court of public opinion. It would be like getting a divorce from your wife, before you really thought it through and realized you made a mistake, then after you hear she is getting remarried with the assets you willingly lost/ gave up - now you are going to sue?
It isn't like the rules or the assets were hidden from the traitors, they just chose to ignore them. I sincerely doubt any of the traitors consulted their legal teams about remaining assets, and how to access them, before they bailed - their entire focus was the shiny new trophy wife, not the wife they left behind. Wait... so you think the 10 defectors just up and bailed to new conferences and contracts (or memorandums of understanding) without any legal counsel? That they simply just ignored, or didn't get legal or financial advice in making the move?? You know that is nonsense, right? Each school has a plethora of legal consultants for every aspect of university administration and needed approval of each board to move forward. There is no way in he11 legal counsel wasn't sought and given on multiple levels. More than likely they all got similar legal advice (similar to what GK stated) that the "12" would all retain voting rights as "2" should in now way be able to control future revenue, that they was safety in numbers, and that they would get "the shiny new trophy" and to split the Pac12 assets. |
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Post by bennyskid on Oct 5, 2023 10:21:31 GMT -8
Wait... so you think the 10 defectors just up and bailed to new conferences and contracts (or memorandums of understanding) without any legal counsel? That they simply just ignored, or didn't get legal or financial advice in making the move?? You know that is nonsense, right? Each school has a plethora of legal consultants for every aspect of university administration and needed approval of each board to move forward. There is no way in he11 legal counsel wasn't sought and given on multiple levels. More than likely they all got similar legal advice (similar to what GK stated) that the "12" would all retain voting rights as "2" should in now way be able to control future revenue, that they was safety in numbers, and that they would get "the shiny new trophy" and to split the Pac12 assets.
And that counsel probably said, "You are going to leave a big mess behind if you bolt." And the presidents said, "We'll be in a worse mess if we don't." So the presidents did what they did and then told their lawyers, "Do your best to clean up behind us."
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 5, 2023 10:23:27 GMT -8
Wait... so you think the 10 defectors just up and bailed to new conferences and contracts (or memorandums of understanding) without any legal counsel? That they simply just ignored, or didn't get legal or financial advice in making the move?? You know that is nonsense, right? Each school has a plethora of legal consultants for every aspect of university administration and needed approval of each board to move forward. There is no way in he11 legal counsel wasn't sought and given on multiple levels. More than likely they all got similar legal advice (similar to what GK stated) that the "12" would all retain voting rights as "2" should in now way be able to control future revenue, that they was safety in numbers, and that they would get "the shiny new trophy" and to split the Pac12 assets.
And that counsel probably said, "You are going to leave a big mess behind if you bolt." And the presidents said, "We'll be in a worse mess if we don't." So the presidents did what they did and then told their lawyers, "Do your best to clean up behind us."
And, as want in "some" lawyers/firms they are happy to attempt cleanup even if it may be a losing battle due to extremely poor decisions. Billables are billables... win or lose! |
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Post by grayman on Oct 5, 2023 10:41:41 GMT -8
Those schools were looking to the future and decided that it was better to join the Big Ten or Big 12 or ACC rather than go forward with the Pac.
It is pretty unlikely that 10 of 12 schools were all just stupid and completely overlooked the assets. They probably glossed over it to a degree because they were focusing on getting out as quickly as possible. They probably thought that they would get a share.
There's no doubt in my mind that they had lawyers involved but to what degree they were looking at what would be left behind is questionable.
I'm also not convinced that they made the assumption that OSU and WSU would be left out, which obviously led to our present situation of a potential lawsuit(s). But I also don't think they really thought about it. It was just every school for itself.
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Post by NativeBeav on Oct 5, 2023 11:29:02 GMT -8
I would gladly take my chances on that lawsuit. Not only is the rule of law being ignored and up for grabs in this country, the traitorous ten would have a helluva time in the court of public opinion. It would be like getting a divorce from your wife, before you really thought it through and realized you made a mistake, then after you hear she is getting remarried with the assets you willingly lost/ gave up - now you are going to sue?
It isn't like the rules or the assets were hidden from the traitors, they just chose to ignore them. I sincerely doubt any of the traitors consulted their legal teams about remaining assets, and how to access them, before they bailed - their entire focus was the shiny new trophy wife, not the wife they left behind. Wait... so you think the 10 defectors just up and bailed to new conferences and contracts (or memorandums of understanding) without any legal counsel? That they simply just ignored, or didn't get legal or financial advice in making the move?? You know that is nonsense, right? Each school has a plethora of legal consultants for every aspect of university administration and needed approval of each board to move forward. There is no way in he11 legal counsel wasn't sought and given on multiple levels. More than likely they all got similar legal advice (similar to what GK stated) that the "12" would all retain voting rights as "2" should in now way be able to control future revenue, that they was safety in numbers, and that they would get "the shiny new trophy" and to split the Pac12 assets. No actually, I do not know that - nor do you. I am not sure how many lawyers you have had to deal with, but, no offense to lawyers like Wilky on here - most are worthless. They are only concerned about billable hours, and frequently give advice based on the path of least resistance - not principle, and certainly not winning a case in court. Between hubris, and almost all attention paid to the new conference, not the Pac12, I can totally see them overlooking the ramifications of leaving without delineating the revenue sharing.
Regarding sentence number two, if accurate, I would be looking to fire, sue and get disbarred the legal team that gave me that advice. At best, you could claim the contract language was ambiguous, but to claim without backing "we think it will be equally shared", especially with UCLA/ USC announcing last year they were leaving, and losing voting rights, is just plain stupid. What is amusing to me is it is exactly the arrogance and hubris of university presidents at the traitorous schools, along with their arrogant attorneys, that have created the real possibility we end up with all of the remaining revenue/ assets. Too funny
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