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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 11, 2023 14:23:57 GMT -8
I just had a disturbing thought (which is a daily thing for me, ever since this fiasco started)... I am not a lawyer and don't pretend to understand anything, but it seems that in the absence of clear contractual language, a lot of legal rulings are based on precedent. For instance, the fact that USC, UCLA, and Colorado have not been voting sets a precedent that they shouldn't suddenly be allowed to be included in voting again. However, it could be argued that the other 7 departing schools have only signaled that they MAY leave the conference and are still on the board. While OSU and WSU would argue that all 10 departing schools have given sufficient notice of their intent to leave, I can see where we could end up with 9 voting members on the board for at least a while longer. The disturbing part is that the bylaws reportedly specify that a super majority (75%) is needed for approval of major strategic and financial issues. Well, 75% of 9 is 6.75. Thus, the 7 departing members on the board (if it does somehow end up at 9) could do whatever they wanted. This is assuming that UofNike and UW would be willing to take on the PR burden of voting to further obliterate OSU and WSU. Based on past actions, I would say they would be willing to do whatever is in their own best interest, regardless of what it means to OSU, WSU, or anyone else. For me, as a non-lawyer as well, it isn't just the departing seven giving notice, it is them signing a GOR at the new conference. No school in their right mind would announce they are leaving any conference without having a signed contract with the new conference. That would be kinda like cancelling your lease on your current house, because you found a new one, after the leasing agent said it was yours. After giving 30 days notice you are vacating your current premises, your find out the new lease never happened. No sane person would do that. It is the combination of public notification of intent to leave, AND a signed GOR, me thinks, that will be their undoing, in demanding any voting rights, or claim to assets. Where I think their strongest argument would be is when the monies, and how the monies were earned. If certain schools can prove they earned the monies in certain bowl/ playoff games, they may have a point. But.....all of those monies have always been shared and paid out to current members equally. Not former members.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 11, 2023 14:28:19 GMT -8
I think "MAY" tranfer is hopefully a non-issue. I read somewhere that all ACC schools have signed a GOR, including Stanford and Cal. Hopefully that's right, can't find anything on the other schools.
All of their acts and public acknowledgments would suffice I'd hope.
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ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,517
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Post by ftd on Sept 11, 2023 14:41:45 GMT -8
my guess is on how this will end....OSU and WSU are in the right...but...will offer a partial deal on assets, et al the the X-scum. This will be to speed things up and keep the legal fees down.
The speed is the key thing. The dirty 10 can file legal challenges for years if they want to, or at least well into the window where The Clean Two have to make a final decision on course forward for 2024.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 11, 2023 14:47:47 GMT -8
If a settlement is beneficial/probable, the 10 also now have a good reason for the Pac-12 to quickly determine the assets.
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Post by 93beav on Sept 11, 2023 14:57:28 GMT -8
I believe OSU/WSU may have to suck it up and accept the entirety of the MW from a timing perspective. This would get us that scheduling alliance which allows us to utilize that 2 year leniency period w/ the NCAA while maintaining a workable schedule. That way, if the Traitorous 10 (T10) want to extend the lawsuit, OSU/WSU can keep it going. As I recall, the original request that got settled today included costs. Now, the tricky part comes in that if they sue the PAC-12, and not the member schools, they're essentially draining their own cash, presuming we win.
At some point, if it becomes OSU/WSU vs. the other schools, I think we'll have to play in the mud in a bit and decree that if it gets dragged out and we win, we'll vote to remove them from any proceeds this year or something similar. I really don't think we should go this route unless we have our hand forced. We don't want to create animosity with other schools (except the one that threatened us saying 9 could vote on the conference's fate...I wish someone here had experience with FOIA requests, so we could find out whom that is!)
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 11, 2023 15:00:23 GMT -8
The Pac-12's lawyer says the conference office is caught in the middle of a conflict between Oregon State and Washington State and the outgoing schools.
“Each are highly suspicious of the other," Lambert said.
Wow, imagine that. WSU and OSU don't trust a bunch of backstabbing traitors who are leaving a conference and now want to destroy it. And they don't trust us and Wazzu because we want to protect what is rightfully and legally ours.
The departing 10 are due all revenues earned before 8/1/24. That would include bowl revenue from this year. But they have no claim on anything paid out after 8/1/24.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 11, 2023 15:10:39 GMT -8
If a settlement is beneficial/probable, the 10 also now have a good reason for the Pac-12 to quickly determine the assets. You want the money? At least two Pac-12 teams agree to play in Corvallis every year for the next seven years. Similar deal for basketball. And we get two home series in baseball and any other sport that needs scheduling help. Otherwise, go fly a kite! Not one red cent! We'll pay the lawyers first! |
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Post by 93beav on Sept 11, 2023 15:11:08 GMT -8
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Post by orangeattack on Sept 11, 2023 15:12:06 GMT -8
If a settlement is beneficial/probable, the 10 also now have a good reason for the Pac-12 to quickly determine the assets. You want the money? At least two Pac-12 teams agree to play in Corvallis every year for the next seven years. Similar deal for basketball. And we get two home series in baseball and any other sport that needs scheduling help.Otherwise, go fly a kite! Not one red cent! We'll pay the lawyers first! with an ENORMOUS buy-out to cancel. A million dollars per game. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 11, 2023 15:14:28 GMT -8
You want the money? At least two Pac-12 teams agree to play in Corvallis every year for the next seven years. Similar deal for basketball. And we get two home series in baseball and any other sport that needs scheduling help.Otherwise, go fly a kite! Not one red cent! We'll pay the lawyers first! with an ENORMOUS buy-out to cancel. A million dollars per game. At least two million, but yeah, you and I are on the same page. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 11, 2023 15:33:47 GMT -8
That is big. If they didn't do the same for the other schools the general counsel probably should be held liable. I'd think it bolsters the Pac-2's at any rate. |
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Post by ag87 on Sept 11, 2023 15:37:32 GMT -8
This was to maintain the status quo. If everyone leaves, whoever is left gets the money. If the board is allowed to convene with the 10 Pac-12 members, who have announced that they are leaving, then they can vote to dissolve or change how money is paid out. As long as the Pac-12 survives until the 10 are definitively out, it is to Oregon State's benefit. This is where the "all decisions must be unanimous" stipulation protects us and the Cougs. This is a great precedent. So even if the Traitorous 10 are granted future voting rights in the next round of legal proceedings, the judge can simply say, legal precedent has been established that all votes must be unanimous and that condition still applies. Stare decisis (stand by things decided) is our friend here, big time. They can try to vote to dissolve but it won't be unanimous so it can't happen. The day-to-day decisions can still be made, however, because yes, there is conference business unrelated to the departures that must be resolved. This is step one toward a settlement, which is the best outcome for all parties. An agreement will be forged regarding the assets and how much/what the departing members are legally entitled to receive, which is the right thing to do. OSU and Wazzu will maintain the rights to the Pac-12's name, intellectual property, future revenue, etc., going forward after 8/1/24, which is the right thing to do, since we never left. No one wants a court fight, especially the Big Ten, ACC and Big 12. They want their new members coming in clean, with no entanglements. And many of the Traitorous 10 want nothing to do with the discovery process, where it would be determined they were double-dealing the entire time, looking to bail while pledging allegiance to the Pac-12 out of the other side of their mouths. Once this process is done, we can move forward with the reverse merger with the MWC, which (IMHO) is clearly the best option going forward. This is mostly tongue in cheek. But the best option going forward would be for the B12 and the B10 to do some horse trading. The B10 makes offers to OSU and WSU that are the same as their sister schools. Then the B10 makes an arrangement where ASU, Utah and Arizona play in the B10. B10 offers Nebraska for this. Scheduling and travel problems are solved for everyone. There's the Big 10 and the Big 10 Pacific. It's a bit like an alliance. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 11, 2023 15:43:04 GMT -8
The Pac-12's lawyer says the conference office is caught in the middle of a conflict between Oregon State and Washington State and the outgoing schools. “Each are highly suspicious of the other," Lambert said. Wow, imagine that. WSU and OSU don't trust a bunch of backstabbing traitors who are leaving a conference and now want to destroy it. And they don't trust us and Wazzu because we want to protect what is rightfully and legally ours. The departing 10 are due all revenues earned before 8/1/24. That would include bowl revenue from this year. But they have no claim on anything paid out after 8/1/24.Why? I understand your point, but if the legalese reads you lose voting rights/ membership immediately upon serving notice, then no - they do not get the revenue from this year - earned or not. Once you open that Pandora's Box, the continuing argument is what I made earlier - they will argue they are entitled to all playoff/ bowl appearance money earned up to the time they left - since the monies were earned in years' past, and are paid in arrears. No - just no.
The real issue here? In addition to the verbiage of the by-laws - maybe in their eagerness to screw over OSU/ WSU and bail on the conference, they should have thought it through a little better. I sincerely doubt every move the D10 have made was thoroughly vetted through their legal team, and they considered all of the ramifications of their actions. I think there is some "oops" factor in here. Think about it - they could have changed the bylaws before they made their decisions, and announced they were leaving. They were so enamored with their new shiny conference and their perceived pay raise, they spaced it. Of course, your mileage may vary. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 11, 2023 15:50:50 GMT -8
That is big. If they didn't do the same for the other schools the general counsel probably should be held liable. I'd think it bolsters the Pac-2's at any rate. The difference is that Colorado actually formally provided the notification to the league that they were leaving and the other schools have not yet done that. That is what there argument is, even though it has been announced that they are all leaving. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 11, 2023 15:53:01 GMT -8
The Pac-12's lawyer says the conference office is caught in the middle of a conflict between Oregon State and Washington State and the outgoing schools. “Each are highly suspicious of the other," Lambert said. Wow, imagine that. WSU and OSU don't trust a bunch of backstabbing traitors who are leaving a conference and now want to destroy it. And they don't trust us and Wazzu because we want to protect what is rightfully and legally ours. The departing 10 are due all revenues earned before 8/1/24. That would include bowl revenue from this year. But they have no claim on anything paid out after 8/1/24.Why? I understand your point, but if the legalese reads you lose voting rights/ membership immediately upon serving notice, then no - they do not get the revenue from this year - earned or not. Once you open that Pandora's Box, the continuing argument is what I made earlier - they will argue they are entitled to all playoff/ bowl appearance money earned up to the time they left - since the monies were earned in years' past, and are paid in arrears. No - just no.
The real issue here? In addition to the verbiage of the by-laws - maybe in their eagerness to screw over OSU/ WSU and bail on the conference, they should have thought it through a little better. I sincerely doubt every move the D10 have made was thoroughly vetted through their legal team, and they considered all of the ramifications of their actions. I think there is some "oops" factor in here. Think about it - they could have changed the bylaws before they made their decisions, and announced they were leaving. They were so enamored with their new shiny conference and their perceived pay raise, they spaced it. Of course, your mileage may vary. Membership and voting rights are two different issues. They will earn what they get this year, but it doesn't mean they should be allowed to vote. |
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