bill82
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Post by bill82 on Sept 1, 2023 19:28:38 GMT -8
One route would be to just stay at two and be quasi-independents. Split the NCAA credits two-ways for two years and see what happens. We'd still be a Power 5 unless the Big 12 and ACC voted against their interests to expel us. They need us to keep a 3-2 advantage over the SEC/Big10. Not anymore crazy than taking zero media revenue to join a conference that is sinking.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 1, 2023 19:29:08 GMT -8
Perhaps we read this differently... "3. Withdrawal. No member shall deliver a notice of withdrawal to the Conference in the period beginning on July 24, 2011, and ending on August 1, 2024; provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024, even if the member is then a member of another conference or an independent school for some or all intercollegiate sports competitions. Additionally, if a member delivers notice of withdrawal in violation of this chapter, the member’s representative to the CEO Group shall automatically cease to be a member of the CEO Group and shall cease to have the right to vote on any matter before the CEO Group." Basically what I heard is they have not formally delivered the paper work to withdraw. They will all do it on August 2, 2024 or date it as such. And they are not members of the other conferences until 12:01 am August 2, 2024.
You think they all don't have lawyers involved in all of this?
It's sort of like saying I am leaving for a different job in 2024 but if I leave on Jan 1st, 2024 I will get the extra full bonus for that previous year (2023) after giving a formal notice date of Jan 1st, 2024. I may know I am leaving in October and interviewed and accepted the new job but I start in January.
I think you're reaching, but I can't say for certain, neither can you. Lots of companies honor notice of leaving, some just pay 'em off and say go away. In this case, the league has a year of basically scheduled events and it makes sense to allow those leaving to remain, but not having voting power. Supposedly several (all but the last 2?) have already actually signed with other conferences and cannot come back to the PAC without paying buyouts to their future conferences. Could be just rumor, but it makes sense in the sense that the entire US sports media world considers it to be irrevocable already. Why give those with the poison pill the right to continue to poison? |
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bvrbooster
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Post by bvrbooster on Sept 1, 2023 19:34:22 GMT -8
Perhaps we read this differently... "3. Withdrawal. No member shall deliver a notice of withdrawal to the Conference in the period beginning on July 24, 2011, and ending on August 1, 2024; provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024, even if the member is then a member of another conference or an independent school for some or all intercollegiate sports competitions. Additionally, if a member delivers notice of withdrawal in violation of this chapter, the member’s representative to the CEO Group shall automatically cease to be a member of the CEO Group and shall cease to have the right to vote on any matter before the CEO Group." Basically what I heard is they have not formally delivered the paper work to withdraw. They will all do it on August 2, 2024 or date it as such. And they are not members of the other conferences until 12:01 am August 2, 2024.
You think they all don't have lawyers involved in all of this?
It's sort of like saying I am leaving for a different job in 2024 but if I leave on Jan 1st, 2024 I will get the extra full bonus for that previous year (2023) after giving a formal notice date of Jan 1st, 2024.
Or in other words:
(I may already know I am leaving in October and interviewed and accepted the new job but I start in January 2024. Maybe my current employer even knows I am leaving but they cannot withhold my full bonus for 2023)
I'm not a lawyer either, but I don't see how they can be members of two conferences at the same time, which they would be if other conference membership became effective at 12:01 AM on August 2nd, but, as of that date and time, they had not withdrawn from the PAC 12. So I would imagine actual paperwork would be submitted late in the day on August 1. This, of course, would only be done by departing schools with no sense of decency or honor, so probably all 10. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 1, 2023 19:34:49 GMT -8
There are very few, if any, originals remaining in the Spinners, the Four Tops, the Glenn Miller Orchestra, etc. etc. etc., yet the current rendition of those bands are still playing at auditoriums and casinos nationwide and making a very good living. The pac-13 Conference would still carry weight and be instantly recognizable to sports fans throughout the country. It might matter to Grandpa and Grandma. For the younger fans, likely not so much.
Detroit use to be a great city too. Now udder the name Detroit.
Last I checked Detroit is one of a very few US cities with an NFL, MLB, NHL and NBA franchise. It's not the city it once was. But it has instant name recognition. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 1, 2023 19:35:49 GMT -8
It might matter to Grandpa and Grandma. For the younger fans, likely not so much.
Detroit use to be a great city too. Now udder the name Detroit.
Last I checked Detroit is one of a very few US cities with an NFL, MLB, NHL and NBA franchise. It's not the city it once was. But it has instant name recognition. And all their teams are garbage. Your point? |
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Sept 1, 2023 19:36:49 GMT -8
Perhaps we read this differently... "3. Withdrawal. No member shall deliver a notice of withdrawal to the Conference in the period beginning on July 24, 2011, and ending on August 1, 2024; provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024, even if the member is then a member of another conference or an independent school for some or all intercollegiate sports competitions. Additionally, if a member delivers notice of withdrawal in violation of this chapter, the member’s representative to the CEO Group shall automatically cease to be a member of the CEO Group and shall cease to have the right to vote on any matter before the CEO Group." Basically what I heard is they have not formally delivered the paper work to withdraw. They will all do it on August 2, 2024 or date it as such. And they are not members of the other conferences until 12:01 am August 2, 2024.
You think they all don't have lawyers involved in all of this?
It's sort of like saying I am leaving for a different job in 2024 but if I leave on Jan 1st, 2024 I will get the extra full bonus for that previous year (2023) after giving a formal notice date of Jan 1st, 2024.
Or in other words:
(I may already know I am leaving in October and interviewed and accepted the new job but I start in January 2024. Maybe my current employer even knows I am leaving but they cannot withhold my full bonus for 2023)
I haven't done any research but I can't see any of the judas teams leaving any money on the table. Their lawyers will see that they get a much as they can. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 1, 2023 19:40:38 GMT -8
Last I checked Detroit is one of a very few US cities with an NFL, MLB, NHL and NBA franchise. It's not the city it once was. But it has instant name recognition. And all their teams are garbage. Your point? The point is, Detroit is still an instantly-recognized "brand," for the lack of a better term, even if it is not as great a city as it once was. Just like the Pac-13 would be. The fact the Wings and Pistons suck is immaterial. The Tigers and Lions, while not great, are franchises on the rise. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 1, 2023 19:41:29 GMT -8
And all their teams are garbage. Your point? The point is, Detroit is still an instantly-recognized "brand," for the lack of a better term, even if it is not as great a city as it once was. Just like the Pac-13 would be. The fact the Wings and Pistons suck is immaterial. The Tigers and Lions, while not great, are franchises on the rise. The Tigers are on the rise? Lol |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Sept 1, 2023 19:45:06 GMT -8
And all their teams are garbage. Your point? The point is, Detroit is still an instantly-recognized "brand," for the lack of a better term, even if it is not as great a city as it once was. Just like the Pac-13 would be. The fact the Wings and Pistons suck is immaterial. The Tigers and Lions, while not great, are franchises on the rise. It's not the same though. Professional teams can improve thru the draft. It's a more even playing field, pun intended......have you seen what the national sports writers have to say about the potential broke Pac mountain? 3rd rate conference was one term I saw thrown out.....the only people the Pac 13 will matter to is us and the Aggie Larrys of the world. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 1, 2023 19:48:27 GMT -8
The point is, Detroit is still an instantly-recognized "brand," for the lack of a better term, even if it is not as great a city as it once was. Just like the Pac-13 would be. The fact the Wings and Pistons suck is immaterial. The Tigers and Lions, while not great, are franchises on the rise. It's not the same though. Professional teams can improve thru the draft. It's a more even playing field, pun intended......have you seen what the national sports writers have to say about the potential broke Pac mountain? 3rd rate conference was one term I saw thrown out.....the only people the Pac 13 will matter to is us and the Aggie Larrys of the world. Your “broke pac mountain” thing isn’t helping. You trying to cover for something? Not that there’s anything wrong with that. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 1, 2023 19:59:09 GMT -8
The point is, Detroit is still an instantly-recognized "brand," for the lack of a better term, even if it is not as great a city as it once was. Just like the Pac-13 would be. The fact the Wings and Pistons suck is immaterial. The Tigers and Lions, while not great, are franchises on the rise. The Tigers are on the rise? Lol Detroit won 47 games in 2019. It's already won 61 this year, is 21-24 since the All-Star break, and has some excellent young players in Torkelson and Greene and an outstanding pitcher in Edwardo Rodriguez. Most people who follow MLB believe that yes, the franchise is on the rise. |
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Post by ostate on Sept 1, 2023 20:05:47 GMT -8
Perhaps we read this differently... "3. Withdrawal. No member shall deliver a notice of withdrawal to the Conference in the period beginning on July 24, 2011, and ending on August 1, 2024; provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024, even if the member is then a member of another conference or an independent school for some or all intercollegiate sports competitions. Additionally, if a member delivers notice of withdrawal in violation of this chapter, the member’s representative to the CEO Group shall automatically cease to be a member of the CEO Group and shall cease to have the right to vote on any matter before the CEO Group." Basically what I heard is they have not formally delivered the paper work to withdraw. They will all do it on August 2, 2024 or date it as such. And they are not members of the other conferences until 12:01 am August 2, 2024.
You think they all don't have lawyers involved in all of this?
It's sort of like saying I am leaving for a different job in 2024 but if I leave on Jan 1st, 2024 I will get the extra full bonus for that previous year (2023) after giving a formal notice date of Jan 1st, 2024.
Or in other words:
(I may already know I am leaving in October and interviewed and accepted the new job but I start in January 2024. Maybe my current employer even knows I am leaving but they cannot withhold my full bonus for 2023)
(from an Oregon CPA that has seen many by-laws and have drafted my share of'em): Generally, in by-laws or other organizational documents; there maybe a 'definitions' section that will define certain terms more concretely. I didn't see a specific section that specifically define 'deliver' nor 'notice' and since the phrase "deliver a notice of withdrawal" does not contain 'formal'. 'written' and/or refer to another specific area of the by-laws it can be interpreted many different ways... It can be interpreted as "notice was given" when it was made known to the general public or even in a meeting with the other P12 CEOs. I'm sure this wasn't even a major point of emphasis when drafting these by-laws since the P12 is/was a 100+ year-old conference and it's relatively harsh to those who would think about leaving before the allotted date. Conclusion, they are out as voting members and are no longer involved in conference decisions (this has been reported as such too)... |
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Sept 1, 2023 20:12:44 GMT -8
Basically what I heard is they have not formally delivered the paper work to withdraw. They will all do it on August 2, 2024 or date it as such. And they are not members of the other conferences until 12:01 am August 2, 2024.
You think they all don't have lawyers involved in all of this?
It's sort of like saying I am leaving for a different job in 2024 but if I leave on Jan 1st, 2024 I will get the extra full bonus for that previous year (2023) after giving a formal notice date of Jan 1st, 2024.
Or in other words:
(I may already know I am leaving in October and interviewed and accepted the new job but I start in January 2024. Maybe my current employer even knows I am leaving but they cannot withhold my full bonus for 2023)
(from an Oregon CPA that has seen many by-laws and have drafted my share of'em): Generally, in by-laws or other organizational documents; there maybe a 'definitions' section that will define certain terms more concretely. I didn't see a specific section that specifically define 'deliver' nor 'notice' and since the phrase "deliver a notice of withdrawal" does not contain 'formal'. 'written' and/or refer to another specific area of the by-laws it can be interpreted many different ways... It can be interpreted as "notice was given" when it was made known to the general public or even in a meeting with the other P12 CEOs. I'm sure this wasn't even a major point of emphasis when drafting these by-laws since the P12 is/was a 100+ year-old conference and it's relatively harsh to those who would think about leaving before the allotted date. Conclusion, they are out as voting members and are no longer involved in conference decisions (this has been reported as such too)... And we all know that everything that has been reported is true... |
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Post by ostate on Sept 1, 2023 20:19:50 GMT -8
As it appears highly likely that the rebuild route is the direction we are heading, here are a few tidbits regarding the money on the table:
There was $45m in NET assets as of the last P12 filing; not fair market value of said assets. I believe many of these assets to be media archive of the conference to not just the tangible assets.
There is approximately $60m in NCAA payments due the P12 over the next 6 years (I think it's 6 years); this does not include any from the current 2023-24 athletic year. The P12 must remain an actual legal entity on/or after August 2, 2024 in order to receive those payments.
I'd prefer a B12 invite but a rebuilt P12 conference is the logical path with the $$ on the table...
As far as actual P12 brand value, that is hard to realize (in the terms of monetization) and a media deal will attempt to provide a current fair market value amount to it...
Just my two cents...
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Post by ostate on Sept 1, 2023 20:24:30 GMT -8
(from an Oregon CPA that has seen many by-laws and have drafted my share of'em): Generally, in by-laws or other organizational documents; there maybe a 'definitions' section that will define certain terms more concretely. I didn't see a specific section that specifically define 'deliver' nor 'notice' and since the phrase "deliver a notice of withdrawal" does not contain 'formal'. 'written' and/or refer to another specific area of the by-laws it can be interpreted many different ways... It can be interpreted as "notice was given" when it was made known to the general public or even in a meeting with the other P12 CEOs. I'm sure this wasn't even a major point of emphasis when drafting these by-laws since the P12 is/was a 100+ year-old conference and it's relatively harsh to those who would think about leaving before the allotted date. Conclusion, they are out as voting members and are no longer involved in conference decisions (this has been reported as such too)... And we all know that everything that has been reported is true... The simple fact that udub and the other school notified the CEOs that they were leaving the conference during the meeting to agree to the media rights deal and then recused themselves before the meeting started supports this. |
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